Tiger Woods

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 15, 2008, 10:00 pm

Today was about as ordinary as I've seen Tiger ever look and he still pulled out a tie, forcing a playoff.

Best athlete of our generation.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » June 15, 2008, 10:02 pm

Pretty amazing stuff right there. Even though I lost money, it was cool to watch. This has easily been the best open to watch possibly ever.

noel · Post by **noel** » June 16, 2008, 12:12 am

I agree with Best Athlete of our generation.

I'd add that I believe he's surpassed Jordan.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » June 16, 2008, 9:10 am

I am not sold on Tiger being the best athelete. He is the best golfer of this generation, but I am going on record right here as saying you will find out next year that he is NOT the best golfer ever. Once these guys go back to the V-grooves on tour next year, watch those scores start to look a hell of a lot more pedestrian compared to what you are used to. That shot he hit out of the rough yesterday to save his ass......no fucking chance in hell he is near that pin and he would have been lucky to stay on the green. If those changes were in place right now, I would put my money on Rocco and I would clean you rubes out.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » June 16, 2008, 9:28 am

noel wrote:I agree with Best Athlete of our generation.

I'd add that I believe he's surpassed Jordan.

I would strongly disagree. More to come later!

noel · Post by **noel** » June 16, 2008, 9:40 am

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:I am not sold on Tiger being the best athelete. He is the best golfer of this generation, but I am going on record right here as saying you will find out next year that he is NOT the best golfer ever. Once these guys go back to the V-grooves on tour next year, watch those scores start to look a hell of a lot more pedestrian compared to what you are used to. That shot he hit out of the rough yesterday to save his ass......no fucking chance in hell he is near that pin and he would have been lucky to stay on the green. If those changes were in place right now, I would put my money on Rocco and I would clean you rubes out.

Can you explain all that shit in non-golfanese? I don't play golf, and have no desire to, so I don't have the vocabulary, but I'd like to understand what that means.

Thanks.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » June 16, 2008, 9:50 am

I'll also disagree.

Phil Hellmuth is the greatest athlete of our generation.

noel · Post by **noel** » June 16, 2008, 10:00 am

Spang wrote:I'll also disagree.

Phil Hellmuth is the greatest athlete of our generation.

lol

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » June 16, 2008, 11:08 am

In terms of bringing interest to an otherwise little-viewed sport, then yes. The guy has not only brought younger fans, but also has spanned cultural boundaries. How many times do you hear folks talking about the open or whatever tourney is taking place where Tiger is not mentioned? Not too many! So, from a popularity standpoint, Tiger is the best.

As far as performance, the guy is just that good, especially down the stretch.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » June 16, 2008, 11:20 am

OK. Basically the grooves you see on clubs are there so the ball will spin backwards when you strike the ball with them. Every iron is designed this way and the combination of th eclubs loft with these grooves makes the ball spin backwards and that causes the ball to climb high and "bite" when it hits the green. A V-groove club has grooves that look like a V and U-groove are shaped like a U. The U-grooves have been around since the middle 80's.

For 2+ decades, the older golfers like Nicklaus and Palmer have been claiming that the U-grooves were a massive increase over the V groove clubs they used and called for them to not be allowed as they would be an incredible game changing technology. No one listened to them and just recently the USGA started testing. They finally found that the U grooves were near 100% more effective at channeling water than the V-grooves (which means the water channels away from the ball and club's impact and imparts much more friction and thus getting more spin).

In laymans terms, when you hit the ball from the fairway you get a marginal increase in spin using U grooves. From the rough, you get a massive increase usign U-grooves. What that did was allow long hitters like Tiger to just bomb away without any fear of the rough....pretty much as you saw yesterday. The rough was not punishing anyone like it is meant to. A ball sitting where he was at yesterday on 18 would have been IMPOSSIBLE to not only sit down....but friggin BACK up with spin. As fast as those greens are, that ball would have most likely gone all the way off the back where he landed it.

From what I have seen, the USGA has banned U-groove clubs starting in 2009 and the pros will be forced to use V-grooves again....which will put a premium on hitting fairways. A guy like Rocco Mediate who was just out hitting fairways and greens would have completely dusted Woods at this particular tournament.

Spankes · Post by **Spankes** » June 16, 2008, 11:34 am

Players will adjust to the V grooves, I don't suspect more than a year of higher scores. Moreover, I bet that they start watering the greens more on tour to compensate for a while. What fun is watching a sport when the players are playing like ass? For years and years the tour has been trying to compensate for technology. Watered fairways, dry greens, longer rough...now they are just re-adjusting the technology because they have done all they can to make the courses harder.

noel · Post by **noel** » June 16, 2008, 12:24 pm

Thanks Kilmoll/Spankes!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 16, 2008, 1:06 pm

All the players have "U grooves" and Tiger beats them all.

How well do those "U Grooves" work on the putting green Kilmoll?

Does Tiger U groove his puts?

As for athlete, Tiger looks like he's in better shape than just about all other golfers. The time he spends keeping his body in shape pays off in longer drives, etc.

I always prioritize solo sports over team sports when it comes to best player talk. It's impossible to know how much the rest of the team helped while in single play, it's all about one player.

Tiger's made too many clutch shots, comebacks, and the stat about him never (NEVER) losing a lead after being ahead after three rounds is impressive. We'll see if that holds true today but no matter what, he's cemented his place in history.

I'm not particularly a Tiger fan and don't usually point out the obvious when someone is hyped to the moon like Tiger.

*prepares for all the "it was so much harder in the old days and references to ancient Greek athletes that could use their cock as a club and still beat Tiger"*

Post by **Sylvus** » June 16, 2008, 1:08 pm

Tiger Woods is good at golf.

Clatis · Post by **Clatis** » June 16, 2008, 1:11 pm

Sylvus wrote:Tiger Woods is good at golf.

exactly, I'd like to see him play a different sport. If you look at a lot of basketball players and football players, some played both football and basketball in college, or a comination of basketball/baseball/football.

I think it's hard to argue that tiger woods is the best athelete when he's good at a semi-leasure sport that is more about talent and not athleticism.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » June 16, 2008, 1:14 pm

Clatis wrote: I think it's hard to argue that tiger woods is the best athelete when he's good at a semi-leasure sport that is more about talent and not athleticism.

Explain to me how you differentiate the two when talking about being "the best."

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 16, 2008, 1:15 pm

Clatis wrote:
Sylvus wrote:Tiger Woods is good at golf.
exactly, I'd like to see him play a different sport. If you look at a lot of basketball players and football players, some played both football and basketball in college, or a comination of basketball/baseball/football.

I think it's hard to argue that tiger woods is the best athelete when he's good at a semi-leasure sport that is more about talent and not athleticism.

Tiger Woods is the most talented player in his sport. You can debate athleticism all day long. I'll settle for rephrasing my statement.

Pretty soon I'll hear about some Ukrainian dude that can squat thrust 5000 pounds that Tiger could never do so the Squat dude is the best Athlete in the world.

Spankes · Post by **Spankes** » June 16, 2008, 1:39 pm

Jordan was not especially good at baseball, does that make him a bad athlete? hell no. Bo and Deon played baseball and football at a pro level, were they better athletes than Jordan? Again, I say no. Multiple sports does not make you an athlete, athleticism does. Tiger has been playing through huge amounts of pain for 4 days and he is still (tied) at the top of the leaderboard. He is in better shape than anyone on the tour, has more stamina and has an 'aura' that intimidates almost every player he plays with. While golf doesn't involve a lot of running the fact that one person dominates the sport only proves the fact that it is, in fact, a sport. Mickelson is a better shot maker imo, but he is out of shape and doesn't have the mental game that Tiger does. There is no question that athleticism plays a role in the game.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » June 16, 2008, 1:49 pm

Spankes wrote:Players will adjust to the V grooves, I don't suspect more than a year of higher scores. Moreover, I bet that they start watering the greens more on tour to compensate for a while. What fun is watching a sport when the players are playing like ass? For years and years the tour has been trying to compensate for technology. Watered fairways, dry greens, longer rough...now they are just re-adjusting the technology because they have done all they can to make the courses harder.

You also miss the difference in upkeep today. Perfectly manicured, rolled greens with uniform height, perfect fairways with extremely few divots, hand-raked bunkers with perfect sand, etc, etc. Go watch the older tournament tapes and look at those shaggy, bumpy greens. It amazes me that those guys could putt that well on that junk. I do not think they will try to compensate at all to make up for the groove changes. The players that play the bomb and gouge method of driving as far as possible then sticking a gap wedge within 10 feet with perfect control are going to have serious problems unless they adjust to hitting fairways. Tiger will still dominate these current pros for the most part, but he will have to adjust and my guess is he will hit a LOT more 3-woods or irons off the tee.

Just as an example, Tiger ranks 146th on the driving accuracy list at 58.93%, yet he is #1 in hitting greens in regulation. Phil Mickelson ranks 155th in driving accuracy and #10 in GIR. Yes, some of it is talent, but we will see next year if they can produce the same scores with equipment that does not take away the disadvantage the rough and other hazards are SUPPOSED to give.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » June 16, 2008, 2:10 pm

Winnow wrote:
Clatis wrote:
Sylvus wrote:Tiger Woods is good at golf.
exactly, I'd like to see him play a different sport. If you look at a lot of basketball players and football players, some played both football and basketball in college, or a comination of basketball/baseball/football.

I think it's hard to argue that tiger woods is the best athelete when he's good at a semi-leasure sport that is more about talent and not athleticism.
Tiger Woods is the most talented player in his sport. You can debate athleticism all day long. I'll settle for rephrasing my statement.

Pretty soon I'll hear about some Ukrainian dude that can squat thrust 5000 pounds that Tiger could never do so the Squat dude is the best Athlete in the world.

I am going to say that he is the most talented player on the PGA Tour. He may not be the best all around player consistently though. He has shown repeatedly that he is damn near useless when playing a team or partner based game such as the Ryder Cups. Combined with Presidents cups, he is 5 wins 3 losses 1 tie, and in team matches he is 15-20-1. I guess playing for the money means more to him than playing for team or country.

Clatis · Post by **Clatis** » June 16, 2008, 2:18 pm

Aardor wrote:
Clatis wrote: I think it's hard to argue that tiger woods is the best athelete when he's good at a semi-leasure sport that is more about talent and not athleticism.
Explain to me how you differentiate the two when talking about being "the best."

He's the best in his sport, but he's not the best athelete.

Post by **Sylvus** » June 16, 2008, 2:26 pm

Spankes wrote:Jordan was not especially good at baseball, does that make him a bad athlete? hell no. Bo and Deon played baseball and football at a pro level, were they better athletes than Jordan? Again, I say no. Multiple sports does not make you an athlete, athleticism does. Tiger has been playing through huge amounts of pain for 4 days and he is still (tied) at the top of the leaderboard. He is in better shape than anyone on the tour, has more stamina and has an 'aura' that intimidates almost every player he plays with. While golf doesn't involve a lot of running the fact that one person dominates the sport only proves the fact that it is, in fact, a sport. Mickelson is a better shot maker imo, but he is out of shape and doesn't have the mental game that Tiger does. There is no question that athleticism plays a role in the game.

I'll agree with virtually everything you said, except for the fact that Bo Jackson was the greatest athlete of all time.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 16, 2008, 4:14 pm

Can we agree that Tiger Woods is the best known Cablinasian athlete? (mix of Caucasian, Black, American-Indian, and Asian)

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » June 16, 2008, 4:43 pm

Winnow wrote:Can we agree that Tiger Woods is the best known Cablinasian athlete? (mix of Caucasian, Black, American-Indian, and Asian)

I would have said that until you did. Now according to the universal anti-Winnow sports theory, I would have to say absolutely not.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » June 16, 2008, 4:58 pm

Come on Rocco! One hole to go and leading by 1.......hold on there lil guy!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 16, 2008, 5:11 pm

Wow!

1:06 p.m.: Rocco holes it! Handshakes all around, as we're going to the 91st hole of the week ...

1:05 p.m.: C'mon, did you really think he'd miss? Woods makes a short putt for birdie.

We're either going to sudden death or Tiger Woods is the U.S. Open champion and Rocco Mediate is the goat ...

1:04 p.m.: Tiger will putt first ...

1:03 p.m.: Rocco for the win ... and he misses on the left side, hits it a few feet past the hole.

A couple of knee-knockers here. If they both make, we continue to the seventh hole ...

1:02 p.m.: Well, he didn't leave it short. Woods pushes it to the right and knocks the eagle attempt about 3 feet past the hole. Has that left for birdie.

1:01 p.m.: Tiger will be first to putt. Stevie is tending the stick for him ...

12:58 p.m.: Rocco with a very nice third shot to about 20 feet left of the hole. Each player will have an uphill run at it from there. If they both make, we have a playoff. If they both two-putt, we also have a playoff. If one makes and the other doesn't, this thing is over. Easy as that.

12:57 p.m.: Well, he hit it high and took it over the water, but it didn't cut too much. Woods is on the green in two, but has about 30-40 feet for eagle.

12:56 p.m.: He's got 217 yards to the stick ...

12:55 p.m.: It's not a 5-wood, but a long iron for Tiger ...

12:53 p.m.: Rocco knocks his second shot down the fairway. Easy enough.

12:52 p.m.: Another prediction from Harry: "Here comes a big 5-wood cut shot from Tiger. Right over the water. His favorite shot."

This one I agree with. Woods is going to hit it about a mile high and let it funnel into that back-right hole location.

12:50 p.m.: Tiger splits the fairway. He's going to be able to have a go at the green, while Rocco has no chance. Could we really see an eagle to win this thing?

12:49 p.m.: Just like yesterday, Rocco hits his tee shot well left into the bunker.

12:48 p.m.: We've talked all week about how cool it is to have a par-5 18th hole on a U.S. Open venue and this could provide some great drama today, just like yesterday. Pin is back right, meaning the guys can have a go at it without worrying about Devlin's Billabong.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 16, 2008, 5:44 pm

Since there's no post from Kilmoll here, we can assume that Tiger Won!

Impressive. Grats to Rocco for going toe to toe with the greatest quad-breed of our time.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » June 16, 2008, 6:09 pm

Looked like Rocco's wheels came off on that last hole, even with the favorable drop.

Props to him for hanging in there with Tiger. Just about impossible to beat the guy--

masteen · Post by **masteen** » June 19, 2008, 3:39 am

Deon never played baseball at a pro level, he was just a freak show that sold tickets. He was a decent outfielder because of his speed, but had a shitty arm and couldn't get on base consistently enough to benefit his team offensively. You can let poor plate production slide in a pitcher or even an exceptional catcher or short stop, but not a fielder.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » June 19, 2008, 5:06 am

And now Tiger is out for the year.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » June 19, 2008, 9:22 am

Phil Hellmuth was never out for a year.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » June 19, 2008, 1:22 pm

edit. mistaken.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » June 19, 2008, 1:47 pm

I thought that only happened to Canseco. Got a clip of Sanders + headball?

Truant · Post by **Truant** » June 19, 2008, 2:00 pm

Canelek wrote:I thought that only happened to Canseco. Got a clip of Sanders + headball?

Guess I misremembered, for some reason I thought they both had done it. I stand corrected.

Clatis · Post by **Clatis** » June 20, 2008, 2:39 pm

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/ ... EST08.html

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » August 10, 2010, 3:43 pm

I would like to take the time to resurrect this thread to say I told you bitches so!

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » August 10, 2010, 3:45 pm

Damn. You force me to check the dates on threads now because I was wondering how the hell this thread could be.

VeeshanVault

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