Quests in EQ compared to modern day MMOs (Like AoC)

[Xanupox]

I was trying to think back, way back on the early EQ days... did the game even have a quest journal or window? How did you even know you were on a quest? They called it EverQuest right?

Were quests basically things you did on your own, or were you on the never ending quest to find a quest?

It just seems like in EQ, you ran around and went wherever you wanted and just did what you wanted. If you enjoyed killing 10 million skeletons, then that is what you did. If you enjoyed slaying frogloks then that is what you did until you got bored of it...

Now days games, like WoW/AoC and most all the others "drive" you around, instead of you driving yourself to where you want to go. I find myself running to the "X" area by the guy who had a "?" over his head and kiling a xxx number of xxx!!!

Once I get that done, I get the hell out of there because I have a questlog,journal/tracker that shows I am already behind in killing a bunch of other stuff for other people.

So when did playing a game go from exploring and killing what you enjoy to running around and obeying the whims of people with question marks over their heads?


I'm still trying to figure out how we even managed to complete a quest in EverQuest!

[Boogahz]

I kept a pad of paper nearby with crap I had to gather...and hand to NPC's one....at....a....time


So, Quest Logs are good for the environment!

[Xanupox]

oh yeah, damn. I am starting to remember now! The Kael armor sets... handing in the armor molds, along with something else I think...

Wasnt there a side effect to that though? You could 'multi-quest'? As in the last person to hand in a required set of items to an NPC got the whole result?

I'm suprised that multi-questing has never showed itself again in any other form thru other games.

[Winnow]

Good post Xanu.

EQ questing was for the real die hard gamers. I remember getting my Shaman Totemi quest armor, piece by piece.

here's the basics: (had to go to Lake Rathe every time to get/return quests)

Totemic Boots:

Vrynn will make these in exchange for:

1) a medium banded boots,
2) 1 dufrenite,
3) terror spines (from tentacle terror in Najena) and
4) an orc chief tongue (from Orc chiefton in Lesser Faydark)

Dufrenite is occasionally, although rarely, dropped by carrion ghouls in Unrest and Clockworks in Solusek's eye and also can be purchased in the magic shops in various cities including Halas, W Karanas, Rivervale, Grobb and Ogguk for 150 to 200 pp each depending upon your faction and charisma. Banded armor is made with the blacksmithing skill.

Totemic Bracer

Kyralynn, in the Barbarian Fishing Village, will make you these in exchange for

1) a medium banded bracer,
2) 1 dufrenite,
3) a bull elephant tooth (from bull elephant in SK), and
4) a cauldron shell (from aqua goblin tidal lords in Dagnors).


Totemic Cloak

Kyralynn will make this for

1) a medium banded cloak,
2) 1 powdered dufrenite,
3) a driftwood pipe (rare drop from isle goblin chief in the Ocean of Tears) and
4) basalt drake scales (from a basalt drake in Rathe Mountains)

Totemic Guantlets

Vrynn will make these in exchange for

1) a medium banded gauntlets,
2) 1 crushed dufrenite,
3) mammoth ribs (from Wooly Mammoths in Everfrost) and
4) a griffene downfeather (from griffenes N Karanas)

Totemic Greaves

Vrynn will make there in exchange for

1) a medium banded legs,
2) 1 powdered dufrenite,
3) a perma snowball (from goblin wizard in permafrost) and
4) bone barbs (from barbed bone skeleton in Unrest)

Totemic Helm

Kyralynn will make these in exchange for

1) a medium banded helm,
2) 1 ground dufrenite,
3) a glacier bear pelt (from glacier bear in Everfrost cave) and
4) an ogreskin chamois (from lizard page in Cazic)

Totemic Vambraces

Vrynn will make this in exchange for

1) medium banded sleeve,
2) 1 ground dufrenite,
3) a ghoul carrion (from Unrest) and
4) a charger hoof chip (from centaur charger in SK - very rare drop)

Totemic Breastplate

Kyralynn will make this in exchange for

1) a medium banded mail,
2) 1 crushed dufrenite,
3) a grizzleknot bark (from Grizzleknot, an extremely rare named treant in SK) and
4) a lancer fish fin (from lancer fish in Kedge Keep)

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Now, every one of these requires a rare spawn, semi hard to get ingredients/mobs, and player made armor.

Breaking down the Breastplate:

- medium banded mail: make it yourself or buy from another player (crafts required)

- dufrenite: can buy the stuff if you have the PP(150-200pp was still a sizable amount back then to be buying multiple gems) or go to out of the way to Unreast or Solusek to get the rare drop.

- lancer fish fin: Going to kedge keep was never a walk in the park and you needed help to get this job done although with some skill you could get this part in a day. Sucks if you die in Kedge though with the naked underwater CR.

-grizzleknot bark: I spent weeks and weeks waiting for this fucking spawn in south karana. When it did spawn you likely had to run across half the zone, beating out others that might kill for fun or other shaman that had also been camping the zone for weeks. I remember killing the pegasus thing that spawns in s karana a few times while waiting (levitating or invis cloak?. something like that)

------------------

Next thing you had to worry about was actually turning in the right stuff or risk losing it all. They eventually fixed this so you would get your stuff back many times if you turned in the wrong combo. The most tense part of the quest was turning in the goods as you hoped the server wouldn't crash. Same with after getting items, log out to save your stuff!

As a shaman, I had high charisma but remember the sizable difference in prices based on your charisma? Don't get that as much anymore in games.

There was certainly no quest map (or any map) with huge X's showing you exactly where to go and the journey to get to these places was much much more hazardous than in today's games...and you took a real boat, not a boat that zapped you to the next zone in 10 seconds. The quest givers had no !'s over their heads either!

End result? It was much more satisfying finishing a full quest in EQ than it is with current MMORPG hold-your-hand quests.

[miir]

Multi-questing is retarded.
The reason no other MMOs have multi-questing is because it's an unintentional byproduct of a half-assed, archaic, broken quest system.

[Fairweather Pure]

It was much more satisfying finishing a full quest in EQ than it is with current MMORPG hold-your-hand quests.

By that logic, it would be "much more satisfying" to build a house without power tools or do your own dental work without anesthesia.

[Winnow]

It was much more satisfying finishing a full quest in EQ than it is with current MMORPG hold-your-hand quests.

By that logic, it would be "much more satisfying" to build a house without power tools or do your own dental work without anesthesia.

I was able to meditate during my long waits in South Karana, making me a better person.

The EQ quests made for more interaction between players that were lost and confused about quests. New MMORPGS = click on ? NPC, see X, go to X using the no-chance-of-getting-lost guidance system, go back to ? NPC, collect your reward. Newbie gamers these days would quit in droves if they had to find the hidden underwater ice polar bear cave in Everfrost or cry because the snow and huge open spaces with no map caused them to die when they ran into a pack of Snow Orcs (kinda like would happen IRL)

[Fairweather Pure]

Allakhazam and sites like it were required to do virtually anything in Everquest. Most people didn't talk to others about questing, they would just say "look it up yourself".

Winnow, you have a weird selective memory when it comes to EQ. It's like men who split up with a woman and only seem to remember the good stuff and forget the reason that things went so wrong. Everquest is still a diseased ridden whore who will still suck everyone's cock but yours!

But if you love it so much despite the massive flaws, you should be playing it right now instead of Age of Conan. I would think the remaining people that still play EQ and raid full time would be your kind of people.

[Winnow]

It was a gaming phase. You can't repeat the past.

Actually, with online games, there will never be another EverQuest. People expect this, they expect that, they're fucking babies that need their virtual diapers changed for them.

Everquest was better for it's time than what we see presently. To make a game equivalent to EQ, it would have to be played on a holodeck.

Take a microwave and go back in time. You'll still be able to beat an old school wood burning stove (if there's electricity!) by cooking the meal faster but that doesn't mean the meal will taste better.

[noel]

It was a gaming phase. You can't repeat the past.

Actually, with online games, there will never be another EverQuest. People expect this, they expect that, they're fucking babies that need their virtual diapers changed for them.

Everquest was better for it's time than what we see presently. To make a game equivalent to EQ, it would have to be played on a holodeck.

Take a microwave and go back in time. You'll still be able to beat an old school wood burning stove (if there's electricity!) by cooking the meal faster but that doesn't mean the meal will taste better.

I have to agree with Winnow here. At it's time EQ was far better than anything that's out at present. It's going to take something that's completely paradigm shifting to even get close to how EQ was in it's heyday.

That said, I certainly wouldn't want to go back to that level of time commitment etc.

[Aslanna]

The quest system has come a ways from what it was initially in EQ. Now they have the task system. Where if you complete certain steps they update on that listed task until you're done. This effectively kills multiquesting on new quests as a lot of times looting a certain item or turning in a certain item (usually both) is part of the task update itself. I'm not sure what EQ2 has so maybe they borrowed it from there.

[Ashur]

Aslanna - yep, sounds like what they have in EQ2 where it's event-based updates.

[Xanupox]

My main thoughts on this were how todays MMOs basically force your hand in playstyle. Whether you know it or not, you let the game dictate to you on where you go, how long you stay and where you go after that.

Taking a step back and looking at Conan, I can see this exactly playing out. I get a few quests for an area that I have never been to yet, then I find myself heading in that direction next. It maybe as simple as being in the center of a zone and the quest sends me north, because that is where the monsters are of near my level. I kill 10 of them, then I haul ass back to the quest giver and turn in... why do I do that? I do that because if I hang out there killing, then I am wasting my time.

I killed the 10 reavers, but I needed to turn the quest in to get the next one to kill the 15 slayers. Oh damn, I just killed 30 slayers after the 10 reavers, wish I turned the quest in.

[miir]

You're just figuring this out now?
You're even more dense than I thought you were.



It doesn't take a genius to figure out why MMO developers have started giving their players a more well defined progression path... why quest NPCs have visible markers... why mobs are shown with their exact level and relative strength... why quest areas are clearly marked on a minimap... why stats and effects on items have exact numerical/percentile values.


To appeal to the largest demographic, developers have had to lose most/all of the esoteric gameplay elements of MMOs.
This is a multi-million (billion?) dollar industry.
Investors are not as eager to throw their money at a product that will have limited or niche appeal.

[Noysyrump]

The only "real" quest I did in EQ was that damned mage epic. Who ever wrote that one up was a sadist. I spent many a solo nights collecting the junk of the first stage. Second stage items I sometimes had to solicite help. Luckily Noysy was a funny guy, so people loved two teaming dungeoun crawls with me, and we usually had a blast. Then those third stage items where I had to join a group camping what I needed, kind of just like any ole XP group. Then those 4th stage components, quilmanes cape, phinni staff, where I needed a guild (or whole zone's help as with quill) to finally complete my quest nearly a year after starting it. I had so much pride in that little piece of paper that erudite in the plane of sky gave me. That fealt like a true accomplisment. And was, by it's truest deffinition, a Quest.

Feel bad for them rogues who had their epic on the second day. They missed that sense of occomplishment I had. Not to mention the baddass pet that wtfpwned everything.


That reminds me, I need to go beat my brothers ass for deleting all those screenies. I mean really, Who re-installs EQ on someone elses comp WITHOUT checking wich drive the PLAYED game is on.... dumbass.

[Winnow]

I killed ~13,000 deadside Froglocks to get my faction up high enough to complete the woodelf mask illusion quest. I remember being down there with Brittany for part of that time pulling the entire zone to the bridge. You just don't get that kind of mass slaughter fun in games anymore.

It's been posted before, but remember the Ballad of 14 Froggies:

before Furor got his first banning
before kyoukan's estimates of Celestial Tomb's size broke the one billion mark
before leyor sucked cock
before Moss Covered Twigs
before AE groups dropped 40 mobs like nobody's business
before Haiku

there was....


The Ballad of the Fourteen Froggies

In from the tower the 14 frogs flew,
and not just them but their little dogs too,
Marbus nearly fell on the pull 'cross the land,
we knew on arrival he'd used his lay hand,
It was the only way he could have the power,
to pull to the king from distant live tower,
The party looked frightened... fretful and worried,
as if we'd too soon be dead and buried,
How can we survive this terrible crime?
The enchanter said calmly, One at a Time.

The battle was fierce and the froggies were strong,
were it not for swift Gormith we'd not have lasted long,
Kalysta's pet helped us survive,
I swear by itself it slew more than five,
Selina selected which ones to burn down,
with one mighty shot, they'd fall to the ground,
Weena's swords danced as she sang mystic lyrics,
Restoring our mana as health is by clerics,
And Marbus lept into battle like a man insane,
after healing from pulling this terrible train.

In the middle of the fight our clarity ran out,
our mana was fading, our health.. not so stout,
Near death and in panic Weena ran for the zone,
but Gormith's quick heal showed she wasn't alone,
The throne was a grave yard, the bodies defaced it,
And the corpse of the priest had that cheap little bracelet,
The battle was ending, the frogs had not won,
All that was left was a zol... and a yun.
Beaten and bleeding we finished them, then
Marbus said, "Med! I'm pulling again!"

Blinkle

---

Fun stuff with some major death CR issues if you failed made things like this fun. Now there's little consequence (zero in AoC)

[Gonzoie - Luclin]

camp check please!

edit: Wanted to add if anyone remembered the days of having to look at your book to meditate? Had to look forward to level 35 so you could actually see while you sat.

Fun times!

[Winnow]

camp check please!

edit: Wanted to add if anyone remembered the days of having to look at your book to meditate? Had to look forward to level 35 so you could actually see while you sat.

Fun times!

When meditating required you to stare at your spell book it was so hardcore! Come on now...if you're a spell caster and just blew your mana energies casting spells, you can't be sightseeing! It's the melee character's job to keep watch while you regain your mana!

In AoC, I can regain my entire health and mana within less than five seconds most of the time. In old school EQ, It was more like five minutes. I agree that waiting around for mana/health isn't fun but dungeon crawls in EQ were intense for so many reasons. Nasty CRs, slow mana recovery, trains from hell, LDs, etc etc. Loot stealing, kill stealing. Some of that stuff wasn't desired but it did make for a satisfying day when things went well! It also rewarded skill players as well as provided challenges all the time as well as made you look for other skilled players that wouldn't get your group killed.

On the other hand, try CR'ing or getting a cleric to come to Howling Stones (if you could find one that had the key) for a res!

EQ had some nasty, deep dungeons. Wipe out and it's an hour CR to fight your way back in your thongs or banked backup equipment. Rogues made things easier but they weren't always around!

[Ashur]

Wipe out and it's an hour CR to fight your way back in your thongs or banked backup equipment.

Kilts, bitch!

Yeah, it was always fun to do the CR gear

[Siji]

There's two odd things I miss from early EQ.. being low level and hanging out in North Freeport around the Green Jade and Bank watching all the higher level players in their rubicite and such, and hanging out in North Ro at the platform where you could run to and usually get help if you needed it. You were really in trouble if you had to run to the guards by the Inn. They've changed Nro and while the platform is there again, it's just not the same. (And nobody is there of course) North Freeport (Freeport as a whole actually) is just a complete abomination. Fuck whoever came up with that redesign. Worst job EVER.

I remember when they added the short-lived charcoal (?) armor coloring feature and people started looking different.. don't think I liked it as much. Before, you could tell what someone was wearing by what it looked like, now that was kind of gone.

Kunark rocked. Being a senior guide when Kunark was released (and getting it for free!) rocked even more. Though cshome was nice, there was nothing like sitting in PoSky before the guide room was converted to the quest room.

Dunno.. it was nice being amongst a group of geeky manginas that all shared something in common and had fun doing it. I remember raving to everyone I knew that it was so weird in EverQuest because people were actually polite and said "thank you" and "please" and were appreciative of help, etc. After coming from Quake2: LMCTF, that was very unusual.

[Noysyrump]

Heh, my first few ae groups in guk. We recruited some paladin. "Ok now your the healer, and he's gonna train the whole zone." I never saw someone run so fast.


We finally got him back and he was awe struck... Man the good ole days of Guk. Hey Winnow, wasn't it you that Spliskin hated?

[Winnow]

We finally got him back and he was awe struck... Man the good ole days of Guk. Hey Winnow, wasn't it you that Spliskin hated?

Who knows. Maybe! The name barely rings a bell. I don't remember anything about the character/person though.

[Xanupox]

I remember when I first found "Unrest" and started looting all that bronze Plate armor! My dark elf was so weak I couldnt even wear a full suit without encumbering myself. Bronze/Banded till the upper 20s!

[Noysyrump]

I remember when I first found "Unrest" and started looting all that bronze Plate armor! My dark elf was so weak I couldnt even wear a full suit without encumbering myself. Bronze/Banded till the upper 20s!

I got my warrior to exacly 20 with bronze/banded and double mino axes before I realized the mage could actually kill stuff. Man warriors sucked in the begining.

[Winnow]

The other important thing is that you actually died in EQ. I didn't die in AoC until I was level 18 or so. Zero challenge early on and then when I did die, I was back to full health, fully equipped, and fighting the same mob in less than two minutes, sometimes less. In EQ I remember sturggling through the teens, running from snow orcs and snow leopards. No risk, no reward. I would tend to think that most people gave more of a shit about their EQ characters than their present MMORPG characters because of this.

[Noysyrump]

The other important thing is that you actually died in EQ. I didn't die in AoC until I was level 18 or so. Zero challenge early on and then when I did die, I was back to full health, fully equipped, and fighting the same mob in less than two minutes, sometimes less. In EQ I remember sturggling through the teens, running from snow orcs and snow leopards. No risk, no reward. I would tend to think that most people gave more of a shit about their EQ characters than their present MMORPG characters because of this.

As it's been stated prior. Nothing will compare to orriginal EQ. It can never happen again. Even old school UO is a lost entitiy. "PKS! RUN!" "Kal Ort Por"

[Deward]

I for one like the easier questing. My problem AoC (granted I am only level 16) is that there are just too many darn quests. I am damn glad I don't have to write them down but by the time I have finished a zones' worth of quests, half of them are green. I still like them better than EQ's though.

I agree that the death penalty is way to lenient in AoC. I find myself charging into groups of mobs knowing I will die but figuring I will take one or two first. I would never do that in EQ. I can remember those PoF corpse retrievals. Ugh ugly is not the word to describe it.

[Psyloche]

Having to look through the wall of text just for bracketed keywords is obnoxious. I'll admit, I've fallen prey to the laziness of WoW's quest system where I click on if I want to accept the quest or not after perusing where to go get x (mob slay, item from mobs, item from ground etc) and that I'll get y item/money. I think the biggest reason it annoys me is when I'm doing repeatable quests in EQ and I have to say [willing], [cocksucker], [whateverobscurewordofthisquest] across 3 characters because I'm boxing. Sure I could just make a macro to do it for me, but why bother when it could be just 2 clicks away. Jesus christ I'm lazy.

[Bubba Grizz]

I'm not totally sure that if you say the wrong thing in these (AOC) quests that you get a different result ultimately. I guess it all depends on how the person wants to play their character. A concerned hero or the smug asshole seem to be the two types you get out of that. Either way I think you still end up with the quest. I think it would be cooler if your choices really did determine the quest you get. If you play the smug asshole maybe he asks you to do something that will most likely be a pain in the ass but if you are the concerned hero he gives you a bit more info and an easier task. just an idea.
I have had to force myself to abandon quests because there are so many. I am mainly playing in Cimmerian and Aqualonian areas. So basically twice as many potential quests. I am loving it though as my Guardian.

[Fash]

In AoC you don't even need to look at the options, you just keep clicking where option 1 would be until the view changes and viola you have a new quest. Oh, the person still has a ! above their head? Rinse, repeat... It's ghey. In EQ, you at least had to [pay attention] and interact.

What about pay attention?

[Boogahz]

I have had two instances where I did not receive a potential quest (and the indicator above the giver went away) based on my responses.

[Wulfran]

I remember when I first found "Unrest" and started looting all that bronze Plate armor! My dark elf was so weak I couldnt even wear a full suit without encumbering myself. Bronze/Banded till the upper 20s!

I got my warrior to exacly 20 with bronze/banded and double mino axes before I realized the mage could actually kill stuff. Man warriors sucked in the begining.

Warriors were never for you faint of heart, easy-mode pussies!!!

And I agree with Psy that the EQ style of questing wasn't all that shit hot either. The "Hail"ing of every NPC in the game to find out if he/she has something worthwhile, then searching for that one word/phrase, that could be missed if you had multiple people at the NPC, resetting your whole dialogue was a bit of a pain in the ass. And yeah, we all had to look it up/post links on our guild sites to good quests because who wanted to write a book in game chat to respond to a question? I remember going in to work early some days and printing off pages of quest spoilers. I still have a couple 2" binders with the shit that I haven't tossed yet

The argument that "it was harder in EQ" is kinda lame because we all did either the NPC saturation (checking out every NPC, usually in an effort with someone) or used the spoilers, or both. The WoW/AoC model is a faster/more convenient one (and yes I'd rather have an on screen quest log than the pads/binders on my desk). And with the quests that show you where to go on your mini-map, at least it limits wails in chats from some morons spamming the zone "sum1 tell me how 2 do this". And like Boog says, AoC is more interactive than WoW in that you at least HAVE response options...