Something needs to be done about poverty!!!

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Things were better when Clinton was in office. The ecomony in this country is in the shitter. We need change!

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/ ... tpov2.html

Table 2. Poverty Status of People by Family Relationship, Race, and Hispanic
Origin: 1959 to 2006
(Numbers in thousands. People as of March of the following year.)

____________________________________________________________________________
People in families
________________________________
All people All families
________________________________ ________________________________
Below poverty level Below poverty level
______________________ ______________________
Year Total Number Percent Total Number Percent
____________________________________________________________________________
ALL RACES
2006...... 296,450 36,460 12.3 245,199 25,915 10.6
2005...... 293,135 36,950 12.6 242,389 26,068 10.8
2004 14/.. 290,617 37,040 12.7 240,754 26,544 11.0
2003...... 287,699 35,861 12.5 238,903 25,684 10.8
2002...... 285,317 34,570 12.1 236,921 24,534 10.4
2001...... 281,475 32,907 11.7 233,911 23,215 9.9
2000 12/.. 278,944 31,581 11.3 231,909 22,347 9.6
1999 11/.. 276,208 32,791 11.9 230,789 23,830 10.3
1998...... 271,059 34,476 12.7 227,229 25,370 11.2
1997...... 268,480 35,574 13.3 225,369 26,217 11.6
1996...... 266,218 36,529 13.7 223,955 27,376 12.2
1995...... 263,733 36,425 13.8 222,792 27,501 12.3
1994...... 261,616 38,059 14.5 221,430 28,985 13.1
1993 10/.. 259,278 39,265 15.1 219,489 29,927 13.6
1992 9/... 256,549 38,014 14.8 217,936 28,961 13.3
1991 8/... 251,192 35,708 14.2 212,723 27,143 12.8
1990...... 248,644 33,585 13.5 210,967 25,232 12.0
1989...... 245,992 31,528 12.8 209,515 24,066 11.5
1988...... 243,530 31,745 13.0 208,056 24,048 11.6
1987 7/... 240,982 32,221 13.4 206,877 24,725 12.0
1986...... 238,554 32,370 13.6 205,459 24,754 12.0
1985 ..... 236,594 33,064 14.0 203,963 25,729 12.6
1984...... 233,816 33,700 14.4 202,288 26,458 13.1
1983 6/... 231,700 35,303 15.2 201,338 27,933 13.9
1982...... 229,412 34,398 15.0 200,385 27,349 13.6
1981 5/... 227,157 31,822 14.0 198,541 24,850 12.5
1980...... 225,027 29,272 13.0 196,963 22,601 11.5
1979 4/... 222,903 26,072 11.7 195,860 19,964 10.2
1978...... 215,656 24,497 11.4 191,071 19,062 10.0
1977...... 213,867 24,720 11.6 190,757 19,505 10.2
1976...... 212,303 24,975 11.8 190,844 19,632 10.3
1975...... 210,864 25,877 12.3 190,630 20,789 10.9
1974 3/... 209,362 23,370 11.2 190,436 18,817 9.9
1973...... 207,621 22,973 11.1 189,361 18,299 9.7
1972...... 206,004 24,460 11.9 189,193 19,577 10.3
1971 2/... 204,554 25,559 12.5 188,242 20,405 10.8
1970...... 202,183 25,420 12.6 186,692 20,330 10.9
1969...... 199,517 24,147 12.1 184,891 19,175 10.4
1968...... 197,628 25,389 12.8 183,825 20,695 11.3
1967 1/... 195,672 27,769 14.2 182,558 22,771 12.5
1966...... 193,388 28,510 14.7 181,117 23,809 13.1
1965...... 191,413 33,185 17.3 179,281 28,358 15.8
1964...... 189,710 36,055 19.0 177,653 30,912 17.4
1963...... 187,258 36,436 19.5 176,076 31,498 17.9
1962...... 184,276 38,625 21.0 173,263 33,623 19.4
1961...... 181,277 39,628 21.9 170,131 34,509 20.3
1960...... 179,503 39,851 22.2 168,615 34,925 20.7
1959...... 176,557 39,490 22.4 165,858 34,562 20.8

[Drolgin Steingrinder]

Check this report and look at the graph on p. 23: http://www.census.gov/prod/2006pubs/p60-231.pdf

There was a blip in poverty rates in the early 90s, a logical result from the recession at the end of the Bush Sr. administration. But poverty rates also fell until ...well, roughly 9/11.

So, yeah. Passive aggressive doesn't become you, try a new look!

[Aslanna]

So, yeah. Passive aggressive doesn't become you, try a new look!

But he still gets people to respond to his current shtick so no need.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

So yeah, I looked at your graph and it says nothing. My point is quite clear. The stats are in my initial post. The crisis isn't there. As much as you need for it to be there, it just isn't. Sorry.

Don't worry though, a handful of people will see these numbers but 50 million will not and will still be voting for false change. Good times.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

So, yeah. Passive aggressive doesn't become you, try a new look!

But he still gets people to respond to his current shtick so no need.

You continue to miss the fucking point. It's not about the shtick. It's about the facts. Stop with the symbolism over substance. Speak about the poverty stats if you can in an adult fashion or go hang out in the general forum and flame someone.

[Drolgin Steingrinder]

Oh, I'm sorry Mid - I did actually misunderstand you. I agree that compared to the last 30 years, the current poverty stats aren't looking critical. It does, however, completely fucking BLOW MY MIND that anyone would consider that having 15% of your country be poor under the Human Povery Index is not a crisis - not a new one, but a crisis still. Or that 20% of your country lacks functional literacy skills isn't a crisis in education.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

In a free country, many lack the drive to be any more than poor. Should you just give them money so they above the poverty line? Where shall this money come from? If they don't have to work as hard as those right above the poverty level to get to above the poverty level themselves, then why should others work that hard? It's a vicious cycle. You really should put more thought into it.

[Drolgin Steingrinder]

For a second there, I thought you were actually willing to actually, you know, debate. My bad. I won't try and engage you again.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

For a second there, I thought you were actually willing to actually, you know, debate. My bad. I won't try and engage you again.

Why must you go there? I'm always willing to debate. You must also understand that while I'd like the perfect world where there is no poor, no homeless, no murder, no crime, no wars, no corporate scandal, etc......I am capable of acknowledging it is not possible. Once you can get to that point, then we can discuss things on a logical platform.

[Aslanna]

You continue to miss the fucking point. It's not about the shtick. It's about the facts. Stop with the symbolism over substance. Speak about the poverty stats if you can in an adult fashion or go hang out in the general forum and flame someone.

Sorry, I'm done trying to talk to you in an "adult fashion" as it's obvious you're anything but. So I think I'll just stick around here thanks!

[Boogahz]

ban Cart!

[Aardor]

ban Cart!

Poverty numbers have gone down since the banning of Cart..Correlation? Nay, CAUSATION!

[Xatrei]

Sorry, I'm done trying to talk to you in an "adult fashion" as it's obvious you're anything but. So I think I'll just stick around here thanks!

I gave up on this a long time ago, but I still catch myself foolishly trying to engage him, or one of the others like him from time to time. Fiftieth trimester abortions really should be legal for the terminally stupid like Midnyte.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Sorry, I'm done trying to talk to you in an "adult fashion" as it's obvious you're anything but. So I think I'll just stick around here thanks!

I gave up on this a long time ago, but I still catch myself foolishly trying to engage him, or one of the others like him from time to time. Fiftieth trimester abortions really should be legal for the terminally stupid like Midnyte.

And the two of you try to label me as being close-minded. Perfect. I love when you poeple show your true colors.

[Forthe]

In a free country, many lack the drive to be any more than poor. Should you just give them money so they above the poverty line? Where shall this money come from? If they don't have to work as hard as those right above the poverty level to get to above the poverty level themselves, then why should others work that hard? It's a vicious cycle. You really should put more thought into it.

You will always have poor, but I think you can aim to have less poor and treat the poor better if you can afford it. The US has higher poverty rates than many western countries while having higher GDP per capita than most. Wouldn't you expect the reverse to be true? Are USAdians more prone to be lazy?

[Xatrei]

And the two of you try to label me as being close-minded. Perfect. I love when you poeple show your true colors.

Being closed-minded describes being unreceptive to new ideas and perspectives. Nothing about you is new. You're a stale old shabby troll, and one that we've gotten to know quite well. I for one am quite happy to file 99% of what you have to say under "examples of buffoonery."

[Niffoni]

Looks like the coffee was extra strong today

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

And the two of you try to label me as being close-minded. Perfect. I love when you poeple show your true colors.

Being closed-minded describes being unreceptive to new ideas and perspectives. Nothing about you is new. You're a stale old shabby troll, and one that we've gotten to know quite well. I for one am quite happy to file 99% of what you have to say under "examples of buffoonery."

You couldn't be more wrong. I'm sorry for you that you feel that way.

[sarlen]

In a free country, many lack the drive to be any more than poor. Should you just give them money so they above the poverty line? Where shall this money come from? If they don't have to work as hard as those right above the poverty level to get to above the poverty level themselves, then why should others work that hard? It's a vicious cycle. You really should put more thought into it.

While I agree many do lack the drive there are many more that lack the opportunities to pull them selfs up. Basic education and continuing education are, in my opinion, one of the simplest ways of furthering your life/career but for people who don't make but poverty level wages the idea of paying for school or paying bills while going to school is a distant dream. What it comes down to is there is an out of pocket expense to education no matter what level of grants or loans you get and for people who have to make the choice between eating and paying the rent on a monthly basis there is no room for it.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

In a free country, many lack the drive to be any more than poor. Should you just give them money so they above the poverty line? Where shall this money come from? If they don't have to work as hard as those right above the poverty level to get to above the poverty level themselves, then why should others work that hard? It's a vicious cycle. You really should put more thought into it.

While I agree many do lack the drive there are many more that lack the opportunities to pull them selfs up. Basic education and continuing education are, in my opinion, one of the simplest ways of furthering your life/career but for people who don't make but poverty level wages the idea of paying for school or paying bills while going to school is a distant dream. What it comes down to is there is an out of pocket expense to education no matter what level of grants or loans you get and for people who have to make the choice between eating and paying the rent on a monthly basis there is no room for it.

I'm sorry, but that's just not true. Those who truly want it, excel beyond their perceived limitations. You hear about those sucess stories all the time. The great thing about America, is if you truly want be be something, you can, if you are willing to work for it. That's why millions a year leave their countries to come to this awful place.

[Animale]

Yes there are those who "grab themselves up the bootstraps" and overcome bad situations to succeed in life. My point is, that the situations that they had to overcome can become less dire by intelligent assistance, particularly in the areas of education and career opportunities/training.

For instance, in my high school the opportunities to interact with college recruiters was severely limited. The reason for this, the college recruiter folks were turned away from interacting from the students due to a lack of support from the the administration and counseling departments because it would have caused more work for them. If they had been adequately staffed, such opportunities would have been available to the entire student body, instead of just those of us who had parents who went out of their way to force us to visit numerous colleges during the summer vacation time. If success (in this case, getting a college education) is not even brought up as a topic in schools, how can someone imagine about overcoming the situation they find themselves in... the glimmer of hope isn't even there.

That's one example of how we've failed the basic fundamental interest of public education, providing adequate opportunities to go further in life. Yes, there are those driven individuals who go above and beyond to succeed in spite of where they began, but how many of us (or your friends) were driven in high school to seek out that extra step beyond what's in front of them. Punishing people for not being visionaries when they are 15 shouldn't be held up as the ideal of our nation, and by the time they are in their 20's it may well be too late to be anything else but a member of the hard working poor due to children, lack of education, etc. etc.

Animale

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Improving education should always be a continuing objective of any society. Improving opportunities for those who wish to capitalize on said opportunities should always be a continuing objective of any society.

However, you will still have a similar percentage of those who do not wish to be anything more than what they are. You look at those numbers you will see over numerous times, government reigns, etc. it's stayed relatively the same.

[Aslanna]

And the two of you try to label me as being close-minded. Perfect. I love when you poeple show your true colors.

Actually I've labeled you as a fucking idiot. Get it right.

[sarlen]

In a free country, many lack the drive to be any more than poor. Should you just give them money so they above the poverty line? Where shall this money come from? If they don't have to work as hard as those right above the poverty level to get to above the poverty level themselves, then why should others work that hard? It's a vicious cycle. You really should put more thought into it.

While I agree many do lack the drive there are many more that lack the opportunities to pull them selfs up. Basic education and continuing education are, in my opinion, one of the simplest ways of furthering your life/career but for people who don't make but poverty level wages the idea of paying for school or paying bills while going to school is a distant dream. What it comes down to is there is an out of pocket expense to education no matter what level of grants or loans you get and for people who have to make the choice between eating and paying the rent on a monthly basis there is no room for it.

I'm sorry, but that's just not true. Those who truly want it, excel beyond their perceived limitations. You hear about those sucess stories all the time. The great thing about America, is if you truly want be be something, you can, if you are willing to work for it. That's why millions a year leave their countries to come to this awful place.

I'm sorry but it is. Its very apparent from your responses you have never lived in poverty or had to work 2 or 3 jobs to get out of it. I have, as did my parents. I know what it takes to rise above it all and my post is as true as it comes. Its easy to talk about the statistics of poverty or how all those poor people must be that way because there lazy but unless you live it from birth to early adulthood you would never understand completely.

My sacrifice was my credit to gain a better education and job. When I left the Army I made a total of 10,000 that year. I qualified for a handful of loans and grants but none of them would actually pay the bills. So while attending college full time during the day and working the menial jobs I was able to get at night and paying only the bills I had to so I could eat and sleep I made it. It took me 6 years to repair the damage I did to my credit but it was the only way I could make it work.


I know its hard to understand but imagine making $5.00 and hour. Thats $200 a week or $800 a month (ya I know its a tad less). Some food for yourself and god help you, you have a family thats $100 a week (15 years after crawling out I spend $350 a week on food easily) what about a car to get to work or lights or gas or insurance? ya not gonna happen. I was lucky, I had some decent breaks at the right times and some solid advise from a trusted friend. Without it I may have never took the chance and moved up in life. Not everyone gets the breaks or sees the opportunities in front of them. It takes something profound in a persons life to break the poverty cycle. I don't think handouts is what will do it, but I do believe that better access to education and mentoring programs will help those that are unsure of how to help them selfs.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

You proved my point. You worked hard and did it. You should be proud of yourself. You're probably a better person for it.

I'm pretty sure when I was an Air Force brat for my first 16 years, my Dad's income was around the poverty level. He used credit to get what he wanted and to take care of us. It took him hard work, my mom's hard work, a few breaks along the way and about 15 years to get out of debt after leaving the military. I'm proud of my parents and admire how hard they work and how they sacrificed to give us a good life. My brother and I didn't have 1/5000th of what my kids have. I remember crying when I got an Atari for my birthday. I was told there was no way we could afford such luxuries.

I raised my family for 4 years on $17,000/year. It wasn't easy, but I did it. I took a second job delivering pizza, which people here like to make fun of. Not sure why though. I'm glad I worked hard and sacrificed as opposed to be handed money. I learned a lot from it.

So, I'm sorry, but I don't agree.

[Fash]

On the flip side of things, when Mid was raising a family with less than 20k, I was probably making double that by myself and squandering it with very little responsibility. Potential is yours to waste.

As for education, we live in a wonderful time where school isn't the only place to get one. As far as I'm concerned, I gave myself a better computer science education than I could get at the best or most expensive institution of higher learning. It's all out there, if you want it, or if your parents raised you to want it... but many people grow up with an extremely narrow view of reality and life, and they pity their own circumstances despite having the innate ability to rise above it. I will resist the desire to make an analogy here about will-power and self-determination, since the typical response would single that out at the expense of the argument.

Knowledge is power, as they say, and if you refuse to educate yourself then you deserve the situation you're in. There is always something you could be doing to better yourself, instead of expecting others to do it for you.

[sarlen]

You proved my point. You worked hard and did it. You should be proud of yourself. You're probably a better person for it.

I'm pretty sure when I was an Air Force brat for my first 16 years, my Dad's income was around the poverty level. He used credit to get what he wanted and to take care of us. It took him hard work, my mom's hard work, a few breaks along the way and about 15 years to get out of debt after leaving the military. I'm proud of my parents and admire how hard they work and how they sacrificed to give us a good life. My brother and I didn't have 1/5000th of what my kids have. I remember crying when I got an Atari for my birthday. I was told there was no way we could afford such luxuries.

I raised my family for 4 years on $17,000/year. It wasn't easy, but I did it. I took a second job delivering pizza, which people here like to make fun of. Not sure why though. I'm glad I worked hard and sacrificed as opposed to be handed money. I learned a lot from it.

So, I'm sorry, but I don't agree.

I stand corrected, you have walked a mile in my shoes.

[Spang]

Why do people with no money have kids?

[Winnow]

I agree with Fash in that we live in a time where there's no need for college if you don't desire it. The Internet provides all you need to teach yourself. (if you're too poor to afford the net, you're shit out of luck!)

You don't need a college degree to be successful and you don't need a lot of money either to start out with. You do need some brain power and desire.

I understand It's not exactly that simple. Having parents, a friend, or somebody, that takes the time help answer questions about finances, etc early in life is a huge help to anyone. Still, you can completely screw up early in life (unless a kid pops out into the mix and then you're screwed or at least have more limited options) and turn things around within 5-7 years so that's no excuse either if you learn from your mistakes.

Good job to Mid and sarlen for finding ways to turn things around!

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

Or that 20% of your country lacks functional literacy skills isn't a crisis in education.

You cannot teach those that are unwilling to learn. No amount of money thrown at the education system is going to change the thug culture's mindset that being a "pimp" and "gangsta" is they way to go and that actually educating themselves is for the uncool.

[Chidoro]

Well, the world needs ditchdiggers too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwYJxNnABp4

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Or that 20% of your country lacks functional literacy skills isn't a crisis in education.

You cannot teach those that are unwilling to learn. No amount of money thrown at the education system is going to change the thug culture's mindset that being a "pimp" and "gangsta" is they way to go and that actually educating themselves is for the uncool.

Very true. Not just blacks and thug culture though Kil. Plenty of white poor folks grow up telling their kids negative things and drinking around them, giving a bad image and not encouraging good studying habits and the importance of a good education and that they can excel in life.

The bigger problem is how every 4 years we are told how terrible everything is and how only one person or party can help them. The dumb voters never get the fact things are terrible and people are suceeding everyday and that these supposed saviors never solve their problems. They fall for it every time. The ones who don't are the ones who suceed. The ones waiting for handouts are a good portion of the ones voting for......"Change." Not just Obama, it's every election.

[Bubba Grizz]

To be honest I had no idea what point you were trying to make with the original post. My ignorance. However I did catch you asking if the solution was to give the poor money to get them above the poverty level. I agree that this is not the answer. The answer lies in training these people so that they can work. Make them earn that welfare check. Wisconsin was known as one of the easiest states in which to get welfare but then they turned that around. One thing that backfired on them was when they tried to make people on welfare go out and shovel sidewalks to earn their check and foodstamps. This caused a major uproar. At least the illegals that are here are willing to work for their money. I can't say that about those born here.

[Funkmasterr]

I really want to get to 5k posts so I can get a big star. for too many years ive been in star poverty while people like winnow thrive. who cares if he has so many posts i think he should have to give some of his post count to each of us so we can all have big stars.

[Siji]

"This post was made by Midnyte_Ragebringer who is currently on your ignore list. Display this post."

Now if you fuckers would quit quoting him I might forget how much of a troll he is.



And to make a point - making fun of someone's job, whatever it is, makes you a fucking idiot. Better to work in a lowly job than standing on a street corner with a piece of cardboard.

[Funkmasterr]

"This post was made by Midnyte_Ragebringer who is currently on your ignore list. Display this post."

Now if you fuckers would quit quoting him I might forget how much of a troll he is.



And to make a point - making fun of someone's job, whatever it is, makes you a fucking idiot. Better to work in a lowly job than standing on a street corner with a piece of cardboard.

no one cares that you have midnyte on ignore and no one cares what you think about peoples comments on others job. go play in traffic

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

"This post was made by Midnyte_Ragebringer who is currently on your ignore list. Display this post."

Now if you fuckers would quit quoting him I might forget how much of a troll he is.



And to make a point - making fun of someone's job, whatever it is, makes you a fucking idiot. Better to work in a lowly job than standing on a street corner with a piece of cardboard.

no one cares that you have midnyte on ignore and no one cares what you think about peoples comments on others job. go play in traffic

I care. I wish he/she didn't have me on ignore, but I certainly appreciate his/her view on hard work.

[sarlen]

And to make a point - making fun of someone's job, whatever it is, makes you a fucking idiot. Better to work in a lowly job than standing on a street corner with a piece of cardboard.

I agree, there is nothing funny about someone making an honest living doing the work they can get.

[Siji]

no one cares that you have midnyte on ignore and no one cares what you think about peoples comments on others job. go play in traffic

You disappoint me. I've had better flames from my ass after eating thai food.

[Zaelath]

So I'm wondering, which part of your fine republican government's awesome fiscal policy has seen the unemployment rate jump by 1% in 12 months? http://www.itbusinessedge.com/blogs/sts/?p=390

How long a lag do you think unemployment to poverty has in the US anyway? Or do you think just putting a failed oil tycoon in charge of government makes that year's stats better?