Common sense alive and well in Europe

[Nick]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... -2008.html

Senator Barack Obama emerged as Europe's favourite candidate for America’s presidency today when a poll conducted for Telegraph.co.uk gave him 52 per cent support across five of the world’s richest nations, including Britain.
Barack Obama is the only consistent opponent of the Iraq war in the race for the presidency
REUTERS
Barack Obama is the only consistent opponent of the Iraq war in the race for the presidency

John McCain, the presumed Republican nominee, received only 15 per cent of the vote in unprecedented survey covering Britain, France, Germany, Italy and Russia.

* Barack Obama wins over anti-Bush Britain
* Poll analysis: France | Germany | Russia | Italy
* Country-by-country poll results (Excel file)

The poll also found a striking level of anti-American feeling in every country. A clear majority of Russians - 56 per cent - believe the US is a "force for evil" in the world. In Britain, only 33 per cent see America as a "force for good".

Opinion towards America has become steadily more hostile throughout the presidency of George W Bush, with the Iraq war probably being the single most important factor.

For some context, the Telegraph is one of the more conservative papers in Britain. Says a lot about the current state of affairs.

Presumably the windbags who complain that I unfairly generalise legitimate Anti-American Administration feeling as obvious and vastly widespread will shut up now.

Obama is in with a very serious chance of victory in the general, that much is obvious from polls within the US. Anyone with with a brain can see that. If anything, it would be virtually impossible for him to fail, but never underestimate the stupidity of the voter. This is just the icing on the cake. And election season hasn't even started properly yet

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Yet another anti-Bush thread from the young angry man from Ireland. *yawn*

[Truant]

Yet another anti-Bush thread from the young angry man from Ireland. *yawn*

You should probably look at the bigger picture. That article is about a whole lot more than just Bush.

[Aardor]

Interesting. Hopefully we don't disappoint Europe and elect McCain. I would like to see some statistics about past polls of presidential elections from Europe, and compare them to the actual results.

[Spang]

Yet another anti-Bush thread from the young angry man from Ireland. *yawn*

Short of giving me a million dollars, there's nothing Bush can do to change my opinion of him. As far as I'm concerned, his 8 years are over.

It's time to talk about the future, our future. His name is Barack Obama!

[Kaldaur]

We get it. Nick's opinions are invalidated because he isn't 35. Enough with the age bullshit.
Nick, when I spent time over in the UK, I was impressed by the level of civility towards my group (a studying abroad group of college students). I loved my time there, and had no negative interactions with the populace. I think the reaction of negativity extends more to the national government and its policies rather than the people that make up the country. However, it could have just been that my group was exceedingly polite, and spent time working in a couple of the towns and cities we visited. When you make that connection, the nationality of someone stops being important and you judge a person by their individual actions.

[Fash]

Let's say the Yankees are looking for a new general manager, and there are several contenders. Does the opinion of the Phillies players and coaches have any relevance what so ever? No. Worry about your own damn country... I have to wonder why you're so obsessed with ours.

I tried to touch on this issue in the gas price thread... Who would OPEC want to be our President? One has to consider the intent and in whose interests these opinions are formed.

[Aardor]

Let's say the Yankees are looking for a new general manager, and there are several contenders. Does the opinion of the Phillies players and coaches have any relevance what so ever? No. Worry about your own damn country... I have to wonder why you're so obsessed with ours.

That's a terrible analogy. And I think he is worried about his own country, and the state of the world, since our current President has affected so many things related to his country/the world.

[Nick]

By all means ignore it if you want Fash, you're free to do so. You're also free to expect zero goodwill from Europe come the times your country needs it most. And its needed it already once in the last 7 years so a nation acting like some macho global prick may be a little premature.

The vast majority of people in the UK and Ireland would be perfectly polite to any Americans that happened to be about. By and large about the worst you would get is a comment or two about Iraq. Unless you acted like a loud mouth, then worse would probably happen, but thats the same everywhere probably.

The point of posting this was to give a bit of context outside the fucking media joke that goes on in the US that so many of the (especially) right wingers get caught up in.

Also, in regards to "worry about your own country", thats about the most laughably hypocritical thing an American could ever have the the sheer idiotic audacity come off with. Absolutely silly in the extreme.

[Fash]

The vast majority of people in the UK and Ireland would be perfectly polite to any Americans that happened to be about. By and large about the worst you would get is a comment or two about Iraq. Unless you acted like a loud mouth, then worse would probably happen, but thats the same everywhere probably.

The vast majority of people in the US would be perfectly polite to any European. There isn't a straw-man argument comparable to Iraq that we could pointlessly antagonize you with. It's pointless because none of us had anything to do with it. I wouldn't harass you about the IRA, for example.

[Fash]

Also, in regards to "worry about your own country", thats about the most laughably hypocritical thing an American could ever have the the sheer idiotic audacity come off with. Absolutely silly in the extreme.

It's not hypocritical at all. The recent wars have all been under the guise of worrying about our own country.

You, however, have nothing to do but whine and complain about our actions... When we attack your country, then it's your business.

[Winnow]

By all means ignore it if you want Fash, you're free to do so. You're also free to expect zero goodwill from Europe come the times your country needs it most.

That's the respect we get after bailing you out of WW I and II and giving you Irish jobs building our railroads and stuff??

The U.S. isn't going down without taking everyone else down in the West. Just check the world stock indexes when the DJIA and NASDAQ head south. When they dive, so do the rest of the world's markets.

[Fash]

Let's say the Yankees are looking for a new general manager, and there are several contenders. Does the opinion of the Phillies players and coaches have any relevance what so ever? No. Worry about your own damn country... I have to wonder why you're so obsessed with ours.

That's a terrible analogy. And I think he is worried about his own country, and the state of the world, since our current President has affected so many things related to his country/the world.

No, it's quite a good analogy, and I doubt that we've had much of an effect on Europe. They jumped right on the bandwagon with us, so if someone wants to talk about hypocrisy, there's a start.

[Funkmasterr]

We get it. Nick's opinions are invalidated because he isn't 35. Enough with the age bullshit.

If you think that is the only issue people have with nick, you're even dumber than I had begun to expect. When nick stops acting like a angry little douche about everything he'll stopped being treated and referred to as such.

[Nick]

No its a fucking terrible analogy, as is the IRA one. Comparing state sanctioned occupations that result in the deaths directly in and indirectly in the hundreds of thousands to an unpopular terrorist organisation is retarded.

And it clearly is a massively hypocritical comment as well. No other country can care about any other country except the US which can invade any country it feels like? It's also a stupid comment, because I don't need your permission, and neither does the rest of the world, to call your countries actions out for what they are.

Winnow, you keep holding on to that dying Empire brother, you keep the dream alive.

Funk, you haven't left yet? I posted an article of notable interest. Why don't fuck off you little crybaby.

[Aardor]

That's the respect we get after bailing you out of WW I and II and giving you Irish jobs building our railroads and stuff??

Wait, what?

[Funkmasterr]

No its a fucking terrible analogy, as is the IRA one. And it clearly is a massively hypocritical comment as well. No other country can care about any other country except the US which can invade any country it feels like? It's also a stupid comment, because I don't need your permission, and neither does the rest of the world, to call your countries actions out for what they are.

Winnow, you keep holding on to that dying Empire brother, you keep the dream alive.

Funk, you haven't left yet? I posted an article of notable interest. Why don't fuck off you little crybaby.

I'm not crying about shit, I just find it amusing that you post a skewed article with a typical cocky, arrogant title, yet someone comes to defend you. You're a fucking joke, and anyone here that defends you or takes you even a little bit serious is a complete fucking moron, period.

[Funkmasterr]

fuck europe haha

[Aardor]

Let's say the Yankees are looking for a new general manager, and there are several contenders. Does the opinion of the Phillies players and coaches have any relevance what so ever? No. Worry about your own damn country... I have to wonder why you're so obsessed with ours.

That's a terrible analogy. And I think he is worried about his own country, and the state of the world, since our current President has affected so many things related to his country/the world.

No, it's quite a good analogy, and I doubt that we've had much of an effect on Europe. They jumped right on the bandwagon with us, so if someone wants to talk about hypocrisy, there's a start.

It is really over simplifying the situation. The president of the US has much more of an effect on Europe, than the GM of the Phillies has on the Yankees. I mean, throw in trade, the fact that we are allies, world view decisions, NATO, and the UN. I'm not saying that the US should follow what Europe thinks, I am just saying that they totally have a reason to care. Hell, I care/follow the election of primary leaders to countries all over Europe, and they have a much smaller effect on the US than the US has on them.

Edit: I do support the use of any Philly sports team in an analogy, and give you props for that.

[Funkmasterr]

fuck ireland hahahahahhaaha like this? im just gonna start spamming and wrecking threads like this

[Xatrei]

Let's say the Yankees are looking for a new general manager, and there are several contenders. Does the opinion of the Phillies players and coaches have any relevance what so ever? No. Worry about your own damn country... I have to wonder why you're so obsessed with ours.

Jesus Christ, you are a retarded fucking mouth breathing dolt. I used to give you credit for being marginally more intelligent and reasonable than your brother, but no more. The foreign policy actions of this country has a huge impact on the rest of the world. Anyone, whether Asian, European, African or whatever has every reason in the world to be interested in our affairs. We don't operate in a vacuum where our actions affect only ourselves, and who will be leading our nation is kind of a big deal the world over. Read a foreign news service once in a while. This is easily the dumbest fucking thing I've read recently in this forum.

[Nick]

Wow, you're such an internet tough guy Funk. I'm thankful I didn't nearly dent your car irl. Such a hard gangsta eh? The article isn't in the least bit skewed you neanderthal.

You may as well spam whatever you like, no one reads it anyway with anything other than derision.

[Funkmasterr]

Let's say the Yankees are looking for a new general manager, and there are several contenders. Does the opinion of the Phillies players and coaches have any relevance what so ever? No. Worry about your own damn country... I have to wonder why you're so obsessed with ours.

Jesus Christ, you are a retarded fucking mouth breathing dolt. I used to give you credit for being marginally more intelligent and reasonable than your brother, but no more. The foreign policy actions of this country has a huge impact on the rest of the world. Anyone, whether Asian, European, African or whatever has every reason in the world to be interested in our affairs. We don't operate in a vacuum where our actions affect only ourselves, and who will be leading our nation is kind of a big deal the world over. Read a foreign news service once in a while. This is easily the dumbest fucking thing I've read recently in this forum.

Right, and we should probably start participating in some kind of a world government too, right? Let other countries decide what we can and can't do. People like you are dangerous, and the fact you spout your ignorant fucking mouth off like you do makes you a complete piece of shit. But that's ok, you fit right in here on vv with your peers.

[Funkmasterr]

Wow, you're such an internet tough guy Funk. I'm thankful I didn't nearly dent your car irl. Such a hard gangsta eh? The article isn't in the least bit skewed you neanderthal.

You may as well spam whatever you like, no one reads it anyway with anything other than derision.

hahaha well see how long it doesn't bother you.

[Fash]

Anyone, whether Asian, European, African or whatever has every reason in the world to be interested in our affairs. We don't operate in a vacuum where our actions affect only ourselves, and who will be leading our nation is kind of a big deal the world over.

They can be interested in our affairs all they want, but they're looking out for their own interests, not ours, and that has to be taken into consideration. That's all I'm saying. As Funk mentioned, we aren't fans of global government.

[Xatrei]

Right, and we should probably start participating in some kind of a world government too, right? Let other countries decide what we can and can't do. People like you are dangerous, and the fact you spout your ignorant fucking mouth off like you do makes you a complete piece of shit. But that's ok, you fit right in here on vv with your peers.

Yes because cooperating and behaving as if we are members of an international community is completely equivalent to forming a global government and surrendering sovereignty. Try pulling something else straight out of your ass again, genius.

[Funkmasterr]

Anyone, whether Asian, European, African or whatever has every reason in the world to be interested in our affairs. We don't operate in a vacuum where our actions affect only ourselves, and who will be leading our nation is kind of a big deal the world over.

They can be interested in our affairs all they want, but they're looking out for their own interests, not ours, and that has to be taken into consideration. That's all I'm saying.

Which our government couldn't care less about, and I couldn't be any happier.

[Funkmasterr]

Right, and we should probably start participating in some kind of a world government too, right? Let other countries decide what we can and can't do. People like you are dangerous, and the fact you spout your ignorant fucking mouth off like you do makes you a complete piece of shit. But that's ok, you fit right in here on vv with your peers.

Yes because cooperating and behaving as if we are members of an international community is completely equivalent to forming a global government and surrendering sovereignty. Try pulling something else straight out of your ass again, genius.

I didn't say they were the same thing, just that people like you tend to agree with that kind of laughable bullshit.

[Nick]

Hilarious. "I didn't like the article so I'm going to have a tantrum!" Awesome logic. GOBAMA!

[Sylvus]

Let's say the Yankees are looking for a new general manager, and there are several contenders. Does the opinion of the Phillies players and coaches have any relevance what so ever? No.

Eh... in order to buy a major league baseball team, you need the approval of 3/4ths of the other owners. Methinks your view is a little narrow.

[Fash]

Let's say the Yankees are looking for a new general manager, and there are several contenders. Does the opinion of the Phillies players and coaches have any relevance what so ever? No.

Eh... in order to buy a major league baseball team, you need the approval of 3/4ths of the other owners. Methinks your view is a little narrow.

Ok, replace GM with Coach. that should fix it. (I hate baseball)

[Funkmasterr]

Hilarious. "I didn't like the article so I'm going to have a tantrum!" Awesome logic. GOBAMA!

i dont like your attitude. its lacking, and anyone that says anything different is wrong.

[Winnow]

Winnow, you keep holding on to that dying Empire brother, you keep the dream alive.

The U.S may very well be dying as the World Police and general badasses of the world but we won't go down quietly. Picture one of those old WW II movies where the soldier gets shot and dies while spraying machine gun fire all over the place in a spinning dance of death. That's what the U.S. is going to do!

Militarily though, no one holds a candle to the U.S. so I doubt we're going down for awhile yet. It will be a slow economic death if anything.

Fuck yeah!

[Kaldaur]

We get it. Nick's opinions are invalidated because he isn't 35. Enough with the age bullshit.

If you think that is the only issue people have with nick, you're even dumber than I had begun to expect. When nick stops acting like a angry little douche about everything he'll stopped being treated and referred to as such.

And I understand that you don't like me now. I can be perfectly cordial in games, Funk, but when you disregard someone's opinion because of their age, then it's stupid to discuss things with that person. Mid makes a point of bringing up Nick's age. If he thinks Nick's argument is stupid, then by all means, trash it and flame away. But saying it's shit just because Nick hasn't reached the minimum rotations around the sun is infantile in its own regard.
And for what it's worth, everyone here is nice in-game, and I don't have a problem with you or Mid. Hell, Mid and I quested together in quite a few games. My problem comes from that standpoint. Think me dumb, but that doesn't really negate what I'm saying.

[Bagar-]

Anyone who disagrees with me or agrees with anyone that disagrees with me is a fucking moron.

[Funkmasterr]

Anyone who disagrees with me or agrees with anyone that disagrees with me is a fucking moron.

I knew you'd catch on eventually.

[Funkmasterr]

We get it. Nick's opinions are invalidated because he isn't 35. Enough with the age bullshit.

If you think that is the only issue people have with nick, you're even dumber than I had begun to expect. When nick stops acting like a angry little douche about everything he'll stopped being treated and referred to as such.

And I understand that you don't like me now. I can be perfectly cordial in games, Funk, but when you disregard someone's opinion because of their age, then it's stupid to discuss things with that person. Mid makes a point of bringing up Nick's age. If he thinks Nick's argument is stupid, then by all means, trash it and flame away. But saying it's shit just because Nick hasn't reached the minimum rotations around the sun is infantile in its own regard.
And for what it's worth, everyone here is nice in-game, and I don't have a problem with you or Mid. Hell, Mid and I quested together in quite a few games. My problem comes from that standpoint. Think me dumb, but that doesn't really negate what I'm saying.

You don't seem to get it. Why should mid, or anyone else take the time to elaborate on why they don't like his opinion? Every conversation nick starts, is started with some kind of arrogant or snide remark, which makes people not want to even bother. If he wasn't such an obnoxious little twit, I'm sure mid and everyone else for that matter, would take the time to explain why they disagree, instead of just saying shit about his age, or whatever else.

I really don't think that is hard to understand, I shouldn't have even had to explain it.

[Xatrei]

You have to explain it because it only makes sense in your highly deficient brain.

[Nick]

Most of the people on this board are obnoxious in one way or another, whether it be by being so rude as to not support widespread slaughter, being rednecks, being c lique members stuck in the early 2000's, or just being dumb. That's fine, no need to go mental.

I don't see how this article isn't even of mild interest to you to the point where you have to have a tantrum and shit up the thread for everyone, I thought it was pretty interesting, sue me?

Fash pointed out that people in Europe are only thinking about what will benefit them, as if thats a point worth making. I don't exactly see how supporting McCain is of benefit to anyone? Do any of you actually think going to war with Iran, continuing the disaster of Iraq and making the democratically elected Hamas group feel like the US is their "worst enemy" actually going to make anyone any safer? At least Obama thinks before he speaks. And its not like he's a stupid man.

The people who represent the McCain camp on this forum haven't actually persuaded anyone else its a good idea, or even explained why they are in favour of him. You seem more intent on shitting up threads, being deliberately obtuse and angrily shouting over anyone else. You simply dont like being played at your own game. Not that I should really do that, since its as dumb as you, but its better than the sideline cheerleading and/or derision you get from people who are otherwise fairly intelligent as and when it suits them (no names...)

[Wulfran]

Let's say the Yankees are looking for a new general manager, and there are several contenders. Does the opinion of the Phillies players and coaches have any relevance what so ever? No.

Eh... in order to buy a major league baseball team, you need the approval of 3/4ths of the other owners. Methinks your view is a little narrow.

Ok, replace GM with Coach. that should fix it. (I hate baseball)

The analogy still sucks. I'm Canadian, not European, and what happens in your elections/what your gov't does is arguably more important and has more impact than our own governmental business because of our relationship. The way the US cultivates relationships with smaller countries (i.e. on your terms or not at all), means that this is exactly what the end result will be. The reality is you guys have been the de-facto leaders of the western world for a couple decades and some of you have no idea that makes you responsible for some (and in specific instances a lot) of what happens outside your own borders. That doesn't absolve non-Americans of all our responsibilities either but we also don't have a say in your electoral process.

[Truant]

Thanks Wulf for saying what I wanted to.

(despite the fact that I don't think they're listening)

[Aslanna]

I have to concur: WORST ANALOGY EVER!

[Forthe]

Obama is pretty popular up here as well. Obama 56% - McCain 15%.

Forty-two per cent of respondents called Bush one of the worst presidents in U.S. history, 23 per cent said he was the absolute worst.

If he is smart he will use this (assuming he wins) immediately, before it wears off, to try to get other countries to help with Iraq.

http://canadianpress.google.com/article ... gg_4ImckvA

[Funkmasterr]

Let's say the Yankees are looking for a new general manager, and there are several contenders. Does the opinion of the Phillies players and coaches have any relevance what so ever? No.

Eh... in order to buy a major league baseball team, you need the approval of 3/4ths of the other owners. Methinks your view is a little narrow.

Ok, replace GM with Coach. that should fix it. (I hate baseball)

The analogy still sucks. I'm Canadian, not European, and what happens in your elections/what your gov't does is arguably more important and has more impact than our own governmental business because of our relationship. The way the US cultivates relationships with smaller countries (i.e. on your terms or not at all), means that this is exactly what the end result will be. The reality is you guys have been the de-facto leaders of the western world for a couple decades and some of you have no idea that makes you responsible for some (and in specific instances a lot) of what happens outside your own borders. That doesn't absolve non-Americans of all our responsibilities either but we also don't have a say in your electoral process.

Weird, seems to me that when I've said this (granted I've worded it differently), almost everyone on this board has had some smart remark to say about it. I get it, we are supposed to help everyone else, and god damn if we don't do it the way they think we should. Then, once we are doing so, people will tell us to keep our nose in our own business.

Excuse me while I go laugh.

[Funkmasterr]

Most of the people on this board are obnoxious in one way or another, whether it be by being so rude as to not support widespread slaughter, being rednecks, being c lique members stuck in the early 2000's, or just being dumb. That's fine, no need to go mental.

I don't see how this article isn't even of mild interest to you to the point where you have to have a tantrum and shit up the thread for everyone, I thought it was pretty interesting, sue me?

Fash pointed out that people in Europe are only thinking about what will benefit them, as if thats a point worth making. I don't exactly see how supporting McCain is of benefit to anyone? Do any of you actually think going to war with Iran, continuing the disaster of Iraq and making the democratically elected Hamas group feel like the US is their "worst enemy" actually going to make anyone any safer? At least Obama thinks before he speaks. And its not like he's a stupid man.

The people who represent the McCain camp on this forum haven't actually persuaded anyone else its a good idea, or even explained why they are in favour of him. You seem more intent on shitting up threads, being deliberately obtuse and angrily shouting over anyone else. You simply dont like being played at your own game. Not that I should really do that, since its as dumb as you, but its better than the sideline cheerleading and/or derision you get from people who are otherwise fairly intelligent as and when it suits them (no names...)

I would just like to point out that I have done exactly this on numerous occasions. I don't like McCain but will vote for him in hopes of doing my part to keep Barack "if you're feelin like a pimp nigga, gon brush your shoulders off" Obama out of the office. I have also given reasons on numerous occasions as to why I don't like Obama, you may not like my reasons but that's hardly the point you are trying to make here.

[Nick]

As usual, you've fundamentally confused taking responsibility for actions with "helping everyone". Might wanna keep that ego in check, its always been America's problem.

Also, what?

Barack "if you're feelin like a pimp nigga, gon brush your shoulders off" Obama

[Funkmasterr]

One of the last straws for me with Obama was seeing him talking about a comment that Hilary I think had made about him, and he brushed his shoulder off like fucking Jay Z.

Here's the video

I would also like to point out nick, that I'm confused about nothing. You may want to reassess the situation.

[Boogahz]

One of the last straws for me with Obama was seeing him talking about a comment that Hilary I think had made about him, and he brushed his shoulder off like fucking Jay Z.

Here's the video

I would also like to point out nick, that I'm confused about nothing. You may want to reassess the situation.

lol, I hadn't seen that before

[Noysyrump]

Here you go Funk, without using google, name the prime ministers/presidents of;

Germany

Spain

Great Britain

Luxembourg

Bet you cant do it. Yet every single person in each of those countries can name our president. Because, as mentioned before, it does effect them. Now why they would go and support some liberal constitution trasher like Obama is beyond me...

McCain in 08!

[Funkmasterr]

Here you go Funk, without using google, name the prime ministers/presidents of;

Germany

Spain

Great Britain

Luxembourg

Bet you cant do it. Yet every single person in each of those countries can name our president. Because, as mentioned before, it does effect them. Now why they would go and support some liberal constitution trasher like Obama is beyond me...

McCain in 08!

You're right I can't, I have no problem admitting that. I would also guess that the majority of the people on this board couldn't name all of them either.

I never said our election doesn't effect them. However I don't believe for any reason that we should take that into account when deciding who we elect. There are other avenues for other countries to take to express their distaste in us/exress what they think we should do, and they can go right ahead and do so till they are blue in the face.