Spring Training Poll - NL West

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 18, 2008, 7:47 pm

Randy Johnson wins #288 and the D'Backs end their home stand 5-1 with a 4-0 win over the Tigers, taking the series and hold a 5 1/2 game lead over the 2nd place Dodgers.

Kind of nice to have Randy Johnson as your #3 (maybe #4 behind Micah Owings) pitcher in the rotation. The #5 spot is the only weakness. Doug Davis is making his way back from cancer surgery with a few starts in the minors and should be ready soon to solidify that spot.

D'Backs are 20-5 in their division.

Xyphir · Post by **Xyphir** » May 19, 2008, 12:24 pm

The D'Backs are 8-11 outside the division. Only 2 of their next 16 series before the break are against division opponents, so this should be pretty telling of just how good this team really is. They'll have a rematch against the Mets and the Phillies again and Boston at the end of June in Fenway. I'm just glad the Rox don't see the D'Back for a couple of months. They've owned the Rox this season, but considering everyone but the Braves have, that's not saying much.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 19, 2008, 12:44 pm

Xyphir wrote:The D'Backs are 8-11 outside the division. Only 2 of their next 16 series before the break are against division opponents, so this should be pretty telling of just how good this team really is. They'll have a rematch against the Mets and the Phillies again and Boston at the end of June in Fenway. I'm just glad the Rox don't see the D'Back for a couple of months. They've owned the Rox this season, but considering everyone but the Braves have, that's not saying much.

Looking at the standings, I'd have to agree that the NL West sucks (except for the D'Backs). None of the other divisions are anywhere near as many games back on average from the leaders.

Dodgers are the only team anywhere near the D'Backs.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » May 20, 2008, 3:01 pm

This makes me laugh super hard

LOS ANGELES -- Manager Joe Torre said that an MRI exam performed Monday showed that Dodgers center fielder Andruw Jones has "some fluid and a soft tear in his cartilage." Torre said that Jones will probably not play for the remainder of the Reds series and that he will be re-evaluated Friday.
"We'll see where he is at on Friday and go from there," Torre said.

Jones did not start Monday night against the Reds because of a swollen and sore right knee.

Jones' injury comes just as it seemed he could be turning the corner at the plate. Torre said he thought he saw some positive signs in Milwaukee on the last road trip, but felt that Jones's sore knee contributed to a regression over the weekend against the Angels. Jones went 3-for-20 on the recent road trip.

Only with Jones could a 4 for 20 be considered positive signs. Did anyone else just have a complete shock that a guy playing at 60 pounds over their normal weight would go down with a knee injury? Guess it is a bad thing that the Dodges decided to pay Crisco Jones by the pound.

Trek · Post by **Trek** » May 20, 2008, 9:06 pm

I think he was refering to Jones actually connecting with the ball....which is quite an improvement. I remember he hit 1 out and had a single that he managed to get tagged out at first on because he made a gesture to run to 2b, now that was something to laugh at

Xyphir · Post by **Xyphir** » May 22, 2008, 12:49 pm

Brandon Webb IS human!

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » May 23, 2008, 11:51 am

This just in! MARLINS SWEEP GREATEST TEAM IN BASEBALL HISTORY!

Trek · Post by **Trek** » May 23, 2008, 12:20 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:This just in! MARLINS SWEEP GREATEST TEAM IN BASEBALL HISTORY!

That is an obvious lie, I can tell my morning paper was photoshopped, even ESPN had that digitallly altered look. The snakes havent lost since that one game in spring training

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 23, 2008, 5:52 pm

I'm currently checking the D'Backs roster to see if there are any players originating out of the midwest underperforming for this to have happened.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 24, 2008, 1:14 am

D'Backs smoke Braves 11-1 in bounce back win!

Doug Davis returned from his cancer surgery for that win, solidifying the rotation.

Who around here is a Braves fan?

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » May 25, 2008, 5:00 pm

The one who watched you lose last night.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 25, 2008, 6:10 pm

Arizona @ Atlanta

Game one 11-1 AZ wins
Game two 1-3 Atlanta Wins
Game three 9-3 Arizona Wins

I count 21 D'Back Runs to ATL's 7

Must have been fun watching all those runs cross the plate especially since people on this thread claim AZ has no offense! AZ wins series 2-1

Micah Owings is 6-2 now.

Brandon Webb
Dan Haren
Micah Owings
Randy Johnson
Doug Davis

Not too shabby for a pitching rotation.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » May 26, 2008, 10:32 pm

I love when you talk shit. Every single time you do, whoever you are backing eats shit the next game. How did Mr Webb fare tonight?

by the way dumbass, you don't win a 4 game series 2-1.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 27, 2008, 12:16 am

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:I love when you talk shit. Every single time you do, whoever you are backing eats shit the next game. How did Mr Webb fare tonight?

My latest shit talking was about Randy Johnson and he's still better than Smoltz.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » May 27, 2008, 11:31 am

Hold on....are you talking about the Randy Johnson of the D-backs era or the pre-Arizona one?

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » May 27, 2008, 12:56 pm

The dude was a force with Seattle. Now he is just an old hick who couldn't hack it in NY.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 27, 2008, 2:32 pm

Canelek wrote:The dude was a force with Seattle. Now he is just an old hick who couldn't hack it in NY.

Are you serious? Check the dates on those records. RJ came to Arizona in 2001:

-five Cy Young Awards (1 AL, 4 NL)
-pitched a perfect game (has your favorite pitcher pitched a perfect game?)
-Threw no-hitter
-struck out the side on 9 pitches (has your favorite pitcher ever done that?)
-10 time all star
-World Series MVP
-In 2001, he became the first pitcher to record three wins in a single World Series since Mickey Lolich
-Led the league in ERA four times (1995, 1999, 2001, 2002)
-Led the league in Strikeouts (1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2004)
-Won Triple Crown (led league in wins, ERA and strikeouts) (2002)
-11.12 strikeouts per 9 innings over career (1st overall)
-struck out 19 batters in a game, struck out 20 batters in another game
-288 wins (only lacking stat and still not bad as he closes in on 300)

-With 4,663 strikeouts, Johnson needs nine to tie Roger Clemens for second place behind Nolan Ryan, who has 5,714. (as of May 25th, 2008)

So washed up in AZ = four Cy Young Awards, Perfect Game, triple crown winner, and World Series MVP?

if you mean recently, as in last two games:

In starts against Detroit and Atlanta, he has thrown 13 innings and allowed just one run, walking one and striking out 15.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » May 27, 2008, 2:42 pm

I just wanted to get you riled up.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 30, 2008, 2:31 am

Randy Johnson tied Roger Clemens on Thursday night for second place on baseball's career strikeout list. The 44-year-old left-hander fanned nine batters in seven innings against the San Francisco Giants to give him 4,672 in 20 major league seasons.

comments:

And he did it in 3 less seasons than Roidger Clemens despite missing a ton of time the last few years with injuries. The guy is amazing.

he may be tied for second on the strikeouts list but he is king of the mullet.

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » May 30, 2008, 1:03 pm

And the GMen swept the best team in baseball history!

Seriously... one legit 1st basemen and this is a pretty good Giants team, Pitching is there both starting and bullpen, best outfield since we had Bonds and Burkes, much better season than it looked on paper.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 30, 2008, 1:36 pm

The D'Backs go 2-8 in their last ten games but still have a 3.5 game lead in the NL West:

D'backs - division leader
Dodgers 3.5 games back
Giants 7 games back
Padres 9.5 games back
Rockies 10 games back

Guess those early wins mean something after all!

Best Game 7's in baseball history:

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/ ... /index.htm

Truant · Post by **Truant** » May 30, 2008, 1:54 pm

It's a long way to October.

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » May 30, 2008, 1:57 pm

The Dbacks hitting is being exposed a whole hell of a lot lately. They really need Burnes back and healthy and 1 more bat to be a legit contender for it all... either that or Reynolds and young need to wake up and hit the ball.

Since you like random facts

1 Chipper Jones ATL 3B .420
2 Lance Berkman HOU 1B .384
3 Albert Pujols STL 1B .359
4 Aaron Rowand SF CF .341
5 Bengie Molina SF C .333

Chipper is fucking a stud.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » May 30, 2008, 2:05 pm

Which stud?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 31, 2008, 11:08 pm

Update:

Webb picks up his 10th win going all nine innings and recording a shutout (15th shutout of the season)

Nationals 0
D'Backs 4

Need I remind you people that Brandon Webb has a Cy Young already? (to go along with Randy's five)

Won't get 20 wins my ass!

2nd place Dodgers drop back a game

Rest of the NL West (Rockies?) nowhere to be seen.

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » June 1, 2008, 4:48 pm

Rest of the NL West (Rockies?) nowhere to be seen.

Which is the only reason the Diamondbacks even have a winning record.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 1, 2008, 6:39 pm

Vetiria wrote:
Rest of the NL West (Rockies?) nowhere to be seen.
Which is the only reason the Diamondbacks even have a winning record.

Looks like the Rockies will fall another game and be 12 games back as the D'Backs beat another non NL West team.

Colorado record: 20-37 (only 17 straight wins needed to get back to .500!)

The Cubs will choke. They always do.

Xyphir · Post by **Xyphir** » June 2, 2008, 1:18 pm

Winnow wrote:
Vetiria wrote:
Rest of the NL West (Rockies?) nowhere to be seen.
Which is the only reason the Diamondbacks even have a winning record.

Looks like the Rockies will fall another game and be 12 games back as the D'Backs beat another non NL West team.

Colorado record: 20-37 (only 17 straight wins needed to get back to .500!)

Yup. Rox suck. There's no 2 ways about it. I certainly won't argue to the contrary, but anyone can point to their overall record and give the Nelson Laugh (Ha-ha). There are many more ways in which the Rockies sucketh. Let me count some other ways.

Colorado currently has 8 players on the DL, and 2 more are day-to-day. They could almost field a team with the people on the DL, which includes Matt Holliday.
They're batting a whopping .235 with RISP.
Todd Helton has had 2 multi-RBI games this season and is batting below .300 for only the second time in his career. The first being his first year.
They're projected to have about 90 errors this season, while only having 68 all of last season.
Aaron Cook (7-3) has more wins than the other starters... COMBINED (6-19). If you throw Greg Reynolds in the mix, it becomes 6-21
They currently have as many Saves as Blown Saves (11)
They're currently in the midst of a 7-game losing streak

So, yeah. They suck. No one can deny that, but to be fair, the Diamondbacks were 11-17 in the month of May. They even got swept by the Giants at home, managing 9 runs in the 3-game series. They also got swept by the Marlins, where they scored just 3 runs. Micah Owings is batting .297 now, and has more Ks (12) than hits (11). He got the K hat trick in his start against the Marlins.

If there is one thing I can be happy about, it's that the Rockies home attendance is better than the D'Backs.

By the way, the Braves are 22-7 at home and 7-21 on the road. Yikes!

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » June 2, 2008, 2:31 pm

Really hoping the Mets cockplow SD and SF this week. They seem to have issues the last few years with basement teams though. =/

Trek · Post by **Trek** » June 2, 2008, 7:59 pm

Canelek wrote:Really hoping the Mets cockplow SD and SF this week. They seem to have issues the last few years with basement teams though. =/

I dont think your going to see Lincecum, so you got a shot.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 3, 2008, 10:27 pm

It took Randy Johnson 1,000 (one thousand) fewer innings than Roger Clemens to tie him as #2 all time in strike outs.

That's quite a difference in K's per inning. Randy stands alone at #2 now!

Trek · Post by **Trek** » June 4, 2008, 12:43 am

Winnow wrote:It took Randy Johnson 1,000 (one thousand) fewer innings than Roger Clemens to tie him as #2 all time in strike outs.

That's quite a difference in K's per inning. Randy stands alone at #2 now!

Ryan stands alone at #1 still, so whats your point?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 4, 2008, 1:25 am

Trek wrote:
Winnow wrote:It took Randy Johnson 1,000 (one thousand) fewer innings than Roger Clemens to tie him as #2 all time in strike outs.

That's quite a difference in K's per inning. Randy stands alone at #2 now!
Ryan stands alone at #1 still, so whats your point?

That Randy's strikeout ratio per inning is pretty fucking good. Get it?

No denying Ryan was a beast. I guess he deserves the title but 200 more games is a lot though. If you averaged 5 K's a game that would be your 1000. Johnson has averaged about 8 K's per game over his career thusfar. In fact he just fanned 8 tonight and 9 in his last appearance. You can't give credit for what might have been though. Nolan Ryan is the King because he actually pitched those extra 200 games and actually got those 1000+ Ks.

Ryan's the best but #2 isn't too shabby considering the history of the game. Longevity. Randy blows the doors off Clemens but there's no way Randy's playing 200 more games to catch Ryan. Still, his ratio is the best ever and his ERA is 9th best among retired pitchers currently.

Randy also has a perfect game on his resume. Can't do better than that. (maybe less pitches if someone keeps track of that in a perfect game)

Xyphir · Post by **Xyphir** » June 4, 2008, 12:37 pm

Clemens has won more Cy Youngs (7) than Johnson (5)
Clemens has won more games (354) than Johnson (288)
Clemens has a lower ERA (3.12) than Johnson (3.23)
Clemens was part of 2 winning World Series teams(1999 and 2000). Johnson was on one (2001)
Clemens has been elected to more All-Star games (11) than Johnson (10)
Clemens won the MVP (1986)
Clemens led his league in wins 4 times. Johnson led his league in wins once.
Both were in the top 5 in innings pitched 8 times
Both led their league in innings pitched twice
Johnson had the highest Ks per 9 Innings 9 times, 12 times in the top-5. Clemens did this 3 times, but was in the top-5 17 times.
Clemens has a better fielding percentage (.973) than Johnson (.907)
Clemens has a better batting average (.173) than Johnson (.126)
Clemens struck out 20 batters in a single game TWICE. Johnson has done this once.
Clemens has a better record in the post-season (12-8) than Johnson (7-9).

I'm not a fan of Roger Clemens, but to claim that Johnson blows the doors off is a gross exaggeration. Assuming the HGH and Steroid allegations are false, both are first ballot HoFers.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 4, 2008, 12:48 pm

Clemens is a roid boy. His stats don't count.

Look at the size of his fucking head. It's bigger than Bond's mellon.

Xyphir · Post by **Xyphir** » June 4, 2008, 1:01 pm

In other NL West news...

The Rockies finally won on the road. The last time they did that was May 9th (4-2 vs. Padres). It was great to see both teams play with some emotion, but that shove Kemp gave to Yorvit was uncalled for. Cook and Kershaw go today for the rubber match. Should be a good one!

Trek · Post by **Trek** » June 4, 2008, 7:59 pm

Xyphir wrote:In other NL West news...

The Rockies finally won on the road. The last time they did that was May 9th (4-2 vs. Padres). It was great to see both teams play with some emotion, but that shove Kemp gave to Yorvit was uncalled for. Cook and Kershaw go today for the rubber match. Should be a good one!

Umm, they did it against the Dodgers after the Dodgers scored more then 3 runs the night before.....so of course they won the next day, duh. Its really pathetic how bad the Dodgers offense is without Furcal, im not sure its that great withhim in it either but its better with him then Hu for sure, im pretty disappointed so far

Trek · Post by **Trek** » June 4, 2008, 8:09 pm

Winnow wrote:
Randy also has a perfect game on his resume. Can't do better than that. (maybe less pitches if someone keeps track of that in a perfect game)

Of course they do! Since 1981 Johnsons perfect game would rank 7th out of 8 with only Wells 120 pitches being more then Johnsons 117, sooo

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 4, 2008, 10:25 pm

Trek wrote: Of course they do! Since 1981 Johnsons perfect game would rank 7th out of 8 with only Wells 120 pitches being more then Johnsons 117, sooo

You're just laughing at levels of excellence. That's like laughing at the country with the 2nd most Gold Medals when you're Cambodia.

Trek · Post by **Trek** » June 5, 2008, 1:50 am

Winnow wrote:
Trek wrote: Of course they do! Since 1981 Johnsons perfect game would rank 7th out of 8 with only Wells 120 pitches being more then Johnsons 117, sooo
You're just laughing at levels of excellence. That's like laughing at the country with the 2nd most Gold Medals when you're Cambodia.

No, its like laughing at you for posting it and having it answered, since its not what you wanted to see I can understand the disappointment!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 5, 2008, 2:01 am

Trek wrote:
Winnow wrote:
Trek wrote: Of course they do! Since 1981 Johnsons perfect game would rank 7th out of 8 with only Wells 120 pitches being more then Johnsons 117, sooo
You're just laughing at levels of excellence. That's like laughing at the country with the 2nd most Gold Medals when you're Cambodia.

No, its like laughing at you for posting it and having it answered, since its not what you wanted to see I can understand the disappointment!

I don't see Nolan Ryan or Clemens on the perfect game list anywhere, let alone with less pitches than Randy Johnson. My point is made.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » June 5, 2008, 2:28 am

Has Randy Johnson ever done this?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 5, 2008, 2:36 am

Spang wrote:Has Randy Johnson ever done this?

Impressive but has Nolan Ryan ever done this?

http://www.fugly.com/videos/5443/randy_ ... _bird.html

I call it a draw.

Xyphir · Post by **Xyphir** » June 5, 2008, 3:19 am

Trek wrote:
Xyphir wrote:In other NL West news...

The Rockies finally won on the road. The last time they did that was May 9th (4-2 vs. Padres). It was great to see both teams play with some emotion, but that shove Kemp gave to Yorvit was uncalled for. Cook and Kershaw go today for the rubber match. Should be a good one!

Umm, they did it against the Dodgers after the Dodgers scored more then 3 runs the night before.....so of course they won the next day, duh. Its really pathetic how bad the Dodgers offense is without Furcal, im not sure its that great withhim in it either but its better with him then Hu for sure, im pretty disappointed so far

You're disappointed?! Half the Rockies are on the DL.

Trek · Post by **Trek** » June 5, 2008, 9:27 am

Xyphir wrote:
Trek wrote:
Xyphir wrote:In other NL West news...

The Rockies finally won on the road. The last time they did that was May 9th (4-2 vs. Padres). It was great to see both teams play with some emotion, but that shove Kemp gave to Yorvit was uncalled for. Cook and Kershaw go today for the rubber match. Should be a good one!

Umm, they did it against the Dodgers after the Dodgers scored more then 3 runs the night before.....so of course they won the next day, duh. Its really pathetic how bad the Dodgers offense is without Furcal, im not sure its that great withhim in it either but its better with him then Hu for sure, im pretty disappointed so far

You're disappointed?! Half the Rockies are on the DL.

Same with LA, NomaH, Schmidt, LaRoche, Jones, Furcal.......but they should still play better then thaty are.

Trek · Post by **Trek** » June 5, 2008, 9:33 am

Winnow wrote:
Trek wrote:
Winnow wrote:
Trek wrote: Of course they do! Since 1981 Johnsons perfect game would rank 7th out of 8 with only Wells 120 pitches being more then Johnsons 117, sooo
You're just laughing at levels of excellence. That's like laughing at the country with the 2nd most Gold Medals when you're Cambodia.

No, its like laughing at you for posting it and having it answered, since its not what you wanted to see I can understand the disappointment!
I don't see Nolan Ryan or Clemens on the perfect game list anywhere, let alone with less pitches than Randy Johnson. My point is made.

Your point isnt made, you asked if they counted pitches and they do. Now your pissy because of those numbers which dont mean anything arent in your favor. When Johnson pitches no-no's in 3 different decades or at least has half as many as Ryan, you can start to compare him to Ryan

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 5, 2008, 12:38 pm

Trek wrote:

Your point isnt made, you asked if they counted pitches and they do. Now your pissy because of those numbers which dont mean anything arent in your favor. When Johnson pitches no-no's in 3 different decades or at least has half as many as Ryan, you can start to compare him to Ryan

When was I pissy about the pitch count? I merely wondered if they tracked it. Kind of funny that you're laughing about a pitch count when a perfect game is one of the rarest things in baseball and Randy Johnson has one.

Nolan Ryan has logenvity. I like Nolan Ryan. The discussion was about Clemens and also that being #2 isn't a bad thing. #1 lefty.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » June 5, 2008, 12:51 pm

Nolan Ryan was in a whole different league(era). I can't compare Johnson and Ryan. I place Johnson with other active pitchers, as it is easier for me to sort out...

Clemens....doesn't factor in, imo.

In their prime, folks like Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson, Maddux, Smoltzy, Glavine...all amazing. From that bunch, I would put Martinez and Johnson as the most intimidating pitchers (in their prime) which Johnson holding the edge over Pedro for longevity.

If I had a vote, I would not hesitate to cast a first-ballot for Johnson. He is the big unit after all and even though he whored himself to the yankees, dude can still bring it when not injured. Not bad for an old guy.

As far as comparing the bird incident with Ventura charging Ryan on the mound, no contest. Grandpa putting the beatdown on Ventura was priceless.

Animale · Post by **Animale** » June 5, 2008, 1:11 pm

I heard a story about the Ventura/Ryan incident the other day (no idea if its true). Apparently, Ventura knew when he charged the mound he was going to be beat as Ryan had a reputation for being a hardass, but he felt he had to do it anyway to keep up the machismo. After the game, Ventura asked him something along the lines of "why'd you just hit the top of my head" to which Ryan replied something like "your face is too pretty to mess up." So, they both knew it wasn't a "real" fight going in.

That said, Johnson is a better pitcher than Ryan was, Clemens is a better pitcher than Ryan was, Pedro is a better pitcher than Ryan was (lets use ERA+ and Cy Young awards as a measure shall we). Johnson, career ERA+ = 138 (5 Cy Young). Clemens, career ERA+ = 143 (7 Cy Young), Pedro, career ERA+ = 160 (3 Cy Young), Ryan, career ERA+ = 111 (0 Cy Young). Ryan also has a career 2-1 K/BB ratio (for example, Johnson has a 3.27-1, Clemens a 2.98-1, Pedro a 4.27-1 K/BB).

Basically, Ryan had a freak of an arm that lasted a longass time. He was better than average pitcher over almost all his career, with a few great years thrown in (1977, 1981, 1987). He had some control issues that were part and parcel of his pitching (has the most career walks as well at 2795). But, if I had to pick pitchers for my "all time" team he'd be WAY down this list.

Animale
Edit: Different league's Cy Young Johnson +1!

Xyphir · Post by **Xyphir** » June 5, 2008, 1:33 pm

Wow... someone using data to support a claim. I'm impressed.

I would agree that Ryan does not make the top of my list for best pitchers of all time. There are just too many incredible pitchers that were/are better... Walter Johnson, Christy Mathewson, Warren Spahn, Bob Gibson, Sandy Koufax, Satchel Paige, Greg Maddux... heck, I'd put the Big Unit over Ryan. The one thing that is being missed is that Ryan threw 7 no-hitters during his career. No perfect game, but 7 no-nos accounts for something.

Who will win the NL West?