Executed!

[Metanis]

Executions resumed:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080507/us_ ... Li1I0XIr0F

Georgia executed a convicted murderer on Tuesday, the first person to be put to death in the United States since the Supreme Court ended a de facto moratorium on capital punishment last month.

William Earl Lynd died by lethal injection at a prison in Jackson, central Georgia, at 7:51 p.m. Lynd, 53, was convicted of shooting his girlfriend to death in December 1988.

I don't oppose capital punishment. However, I also wouldn't oppose the concept of a life sentence at hard labor without the possibility of parole. Lawyers always seem to find some goofy judge willing to change the meaning of "life".

I think a society has the right to kill its criminals, but it would be better if it valued life so highly that it did not exercise that right. However it then has an obligation to ensure the violent can never harm another person again. One of the problems currently is the endless appeals process. At some point there needs to be a final cutoff beyond which appeals can no longer be filed.

[Forthe]

Wow I almost agree with Metanis.

I do think there should be a higher standard of evidence for capital punishment. i.e. stupid fuckers that video themselves, multiple solid eye witnesses. There should be absolutely no doubt. Executing an innocent is unforgivable.

I also think a life (no 20 year bullshit or parole) of hard labor is more punishing than execution but I'm not totally above an eye for an eye.

[Zamtuk]

Fuck hard labor. Give them solitary confinement and let them go batshit in a couple years. It saves space.

Death penalty is still just for those real bad eggs.

[Noysyrump]

Currently capital punishment is reserved for those who commit first degree murder (that is, plan it out, wait in ambush, and kill), commit an act of treason (during war time) and those who kill other incarcerated people while in prison (or a guard).

It's that last one that we need to really enforce. If they are already in prison and they kill again, then I say let em fry. appeals be damned.

[Fash]

How about solitary confinement with a noose and a chair? Let them kill themselves!

[Hesten]

....commit an act of treason (during war time)...

Just noticed that part, and was wondering.
Does it have to be an "official war", or could this eventually be lead to executions linked to the "war on terror" and the "war on drugs"? I could easily imagine some lawyers trying to get the death penalty to some guy who sold info on how to get around customs to some drug smugglers.

[Spang]

I forget its location, or if it's even still in operation, but there was this small town in some country that had a very small (the size of a phone booth) cell. If you committed a crime and got caught, that cell became your home, and stayed that way until someone else committed a crime. You were then allowed to leave the cell, to be executed. If I remember correctly, there hadn't been a crime committed in that town for like 20 years, or some such number.

[Forthe]

Fuck hard labor. Give them solitary confinement and let them go batshit in a couple years. It saves space.

Death penalty is still just for those real bad eggs.

We still have to feed and shelter them and get nothing in return. Make them earn their keep and then some.

[Noysyrump]

We could make some of THESE!

[Forthe]

Hook them up to turbines, energy crisis averted!

[Gonzoie - Luclin]

I forget its location, or if it's even still in operation, but there was this small town in some country that had a very small (the size of a phone booth) cell. If you committed a crime and got caught, that cell became your home, and stayed that way until someone else committed a crime. You were then allowed to leave the cell, to be executed. If I remember correctly, there hadn't been a crime committed in that town for like 20 years, or some such number.

Bet that guy who committed the last crime really regrets it now.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

My peronsal opinion is that we execute murderers. I think the justice system needs a bit of an overhaul and there become two types of convictions. One based on pure DNA no doubt about it, we have video, fingerprints, 25 witnesses, and a signed confession conviction.....and the standard we know you did it but we don't want to fry you because there is a chance in a million you are innocent conviction.

In the first case....death...no fucking around for years with appeals. Get rid of them and have them removed forever from society. In the second case, I give them 2 options. Option 1 they get to serve a lifetime of hard military service. They go through boot camps knowing that if they fail to make the cut then they get the chair. I would just about propose the same thing for all violent offenders and drug offenders. Take them in and teach them discipline and values. If they screw up then they go back to some type of back breaking hard labor.

[Spang]

The murderer would never graduate basic. There's no way they'd give him or her a weapon to qualify with. Besides, convicted felons can't join the military.

[Fairweather Pure]

Besides, convicted felons can't join the military.

Unless there is an unpopular war to fight and normal recruitment numbers are falling off the charts...


http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/04/22/america/army.php

[Fash]

Whatever it takes to maintain an all-volunteer force!

Would you prefer a draft, Nancy?

[Fairweather Pure]

Whatever it takes to maintain an all-volunteer force!

Would you prefer a draft, Nancy?

As long as we're talking about what I would prefer, I guess I would go with never invading to begin with? However, your jab and assumption really has nothing to do with what I linked. I was simply disproving Spang's remark.

[Fash]

As long as we're talking about what I would prefer, I guess I would go with never invading to begin with?

...too late?

Why do people cling to the impossible? It cannot be undone.

[Fairweather Pure]

The financial losses in Iraq, the deaths, and overall failure in that country are linked to the invasion, not to anything else. Cause and effect and all that good stuff. Where we are now is the aftermath of horrible decision making on our government's part. So, while it cannot be undone, the mistake should be corrected as soon as possible with all responsibility being placed at the feet of the people that got us into this mess, and not the people that will be cleaning it up.

[Sylvus]

As long as we're talking about what I would prefer, I guess I would go with never invading to begin with?

...too late?

Why do people cling to the impossible? It cannot be undone.

Isn't that kind of unfair? He pointed out that criminals are now allowed in the military, you asked what his preference is, he stated his preference (which I share) and you call him out on it. That seems unreasonable. As far as "clinging" to anything: we're discussing our opinions on an Everquest message board. Some of us clinging to the idea that going into Iraq was a bad decision gets as much accomplished as someone else saying we should implement the draft or that we should melt all guns in the united states down and make smart cars out of them or to shoot prison inmates into the sun in a rocketship. Namely: nothing.

Nothing concrete will change. No conversation here will ever shape any policy of the US Government. The only thing that will ever come about from a conversation here is a potential change in someone's mind, and even that is unlikely with all you stubborn pricks that hang out here (myself included). If someone's mind is changed, perhaps they'll vote differently in an election in, say, Florida, and that one vote might be enough to sway a Presidential Election the other way, thus preventing the next conflict that is as poorly planned and executed as the current war in Iraq has been. No one is suggesting that opposing the war in Iraq from the beginning and continuing to do so is going to slowly erase it from photographs and enable Marty McFly to introduce Chuck Berry's music to the Enchantment Under the Sea dance. We're just saying that making better decisions several years back might have avoided this quagmire (giggety). Measure twice and cut once, as it were.

That said, if you're asking for an opinion on whether I'd prefer a draft or the loosening of restrictions on who can join the military (and making better decisions from the get-go is not one of my options), I'd take the latter every time. But I'd go the whole route, and let anyone who wanted to serve and was physically and mentally capable be allowed to. Including the San Francisco Assless Leather Chaps Parade, women (they still have restrictions on what capacities a woman can serve in, don't they?), monkeys that know sign language, etc.

[Bubba Grizz]

I like the giant turbine idea. Instead of letting prisoners hang out in prison doing pretty much nothing, hook them up to a giant treadmill. (Picture small rodents running around) They can do that all day. There has to be a way to make them productive to really repay their debt to society. They commit a crime, they get taken out of the tax pool, only to be supported by tax dollars for years of their lives. It seems counter prodcutive.

[Sylvus]

To get back on topic, let's revisit Kilmoll's 2 groups of people. I'm not sure which group should be which, but I'm leaning toward the first group (automatic death penalty) being contestants on The Running Man. That'd be pretty entertaining, and if the person has the chance to fight for their life, it's not as morally wrong to me. Perhaps there could also be like a modified version of "Who Wants to be a Millionaire" called "Who Wants to Escape the Chair", and instead of the million dollars, you get your freedom. Then someone would have the chance of either a mental or physical challenge to escape death row.

[Noysyrump]

Bah give 1 a sword, the other a trident and a net, and let them have at it. All major cities have colleseums now...

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

I like those ideas....but they would probably fall under cruel and unusual punishment laws. Now if they could elect to do that, then we might have one hell of a pay per view idea.....

[Fash]

As long as we're talking about what I would prefer, I guess I would go with never invading to begin with?

...too late?

Why do people cling to the impossible? It cannot be undone.

Isn't that kind of unfair? He pointed out that criminals are now allowed in the military, you asked what his preference is, he stated his preference (which I share) and you call him out on it. That seems unreasonable.

If you ask someone what they would choose, aren't you looking for a realistic answer? I don't think it's unreasonable to expect an answer that has relevance in the real world, or that it's unfair to call him out when his answer makes no more sense than simply wishing it away.

[laneela]

No. Not necessarily. "Would you prefer a draft?" is an open-ended question. If you want a realistic answer, close the question up.

[Boogahz]

No. Not necessarily. "Would you prefer a draft?" is an open-ended question. If you want a realistic answer, close the question up.

That isn't an open-ended question.

Open ended would be more like: How would you propose that we maintain, or increase, the number of active duty members of the military?

This leaves the person being asked an opportunity to pretty much go wherever they want to with their response.

The closed end of the "Would you prefer a draft?" only allows the person to answer yes or no.

[Ashur]

I agree, very unfair.

Retiarii had to train quite a bit to become proficient with the net and trident combination, just giving the weapons out gives the advantage to the Secutor, what with his shield and cestus.

Seriously, do you think before you post, Noysyrump??

[Sylvus]

As long as we're talking about what I would prefer, I guess I would go with never invading to begin with?

...too late?

Why do people cling to the impossible? It cannot be undone.

Isn't that kind of unfair? He pointed out that criminals are now allowed in the military, you asked what his preference is, he stated his preference (which I share) and you call him out on it. That seems unreasonable.

If you ask someone what they would choose, aren't you looking for a realistic answer? I don't think it's unreasonable to expect an answer that has relevance in the real world, or that it's unfair to call him out when his answer makes no more sense than simply wishing it away.

But isn't the only reason that the draft is being bandied about, or has been bandied about in the last 30 years, because of the current war in Iraq? If you asked me if I'd prefer you punching me in the stomach or the face, I'd probably still answer that I'd prefer you didn't punch me. Is that wishing it away? Maybe, I could see cases for either side... the point is that it's not a foregone conclusion that you have to punch me (or that we had to go into Iraq, or have to stay in Iraq/add more people to Iraq), so until it is I'm going to ask that you just not do it.

Now if the alien insect army were on their ships heading here, and we absolutely had to have more bodies in the army to fight them or risk being exterminated, I might in that case support a draft. But until then, I'll likely be against the draft in general, and definitely be against it when it's specifically being talked about as a result of an invasion that I don't think we ever needed to make in the first place.

[Forthe]

I agree, very unfair.

Retiarii had to train quite a bit to become proficient with the net and trident combination, just giving the weapons out gives the advantage to the Secutor, what with his shield and cestus.

Seriously, do you think before you post, Noysyrump??

That made me LOL at work :/

[Spang]

Besides, convicted felons can't join the military.

Unless there is an unpopular war to fight and normal recruitment numbers are falling off the charts...


http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/04/22/america/army.php

I'll change my answer to murderers.

...(they still have restrictions on what capacities a woman can serve in, don't they?)...

Combat arms MOS's, mainly due to a monthly visitor, as far as I know.

[Fairweather Pure]

Aren't women physiologically capable of operating better/longer at high Gs and therefore would make better combat pilots? I think I've heard that more than once through the years...


Anyway, if they want to go to war, let em. I really don't care if they're convicted felons or not, but the statistic is interesting.

[Ashur]

Not all Combat Arms - I was originally in the Air Defense Artillery and there were plenty of female soldiers in the Patriot Missile Systems MOS.

They didn't have any in the Stinger or Vulcan MOSs however, so it may be anything that is possible to be attached to. I know they have female MPs as well.

I cant find the exact regulation on the restriction, but they are breaking down the old walls. They have assigned women as infantry combat medics.

Interesting Article: For Female GIs, Combat Is a Fact http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02_pf.html

[Noysyrump]

I agree, very unfair.

Retiarii had to train quite a bit to become proficient with the net and trident combination, just giving the weapons out gives the advantage to the Secutor, what with his shield and cestus.

Seriously, do you think before you post, Noysyrump??

Umm yeh, cause I was serious... You off yer meds?

[Ashur]

Humor, bitch... do you speak it?

[Noysyrump]

I was begining to think the same of you...

[Xatrei]

I think the current clusterfuck in Iraq will go a long way towards opening new doors for female soldiers. Even though they're restricted from most combat arms MOSs now, there are plenty of female soldiers exposed to combat situations in Iraq all the time. They're still not on actual combat missions, and it might be a while before you see female 11B, 19K, 19D, 13B or the like, though. I think the Israelis have demonstrated that female soldiers are more than capable in any number of combat roles, provided they're subjected to hard training and high standards. With the US military's current acceptance of comparatively soft physical standards for females, I certainly wouldn't be comfortable being out in the shit with a female that got a 181 on her last PT test (of course I wouldn't be too keen relying on a male that scored that low on the male standards).