Clinton touts White support

Fash · Post by **Fash** » May 8, 2008, 4:50 pm

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008 ... e-support/

Hillary wrote: “I have a much broader base to build a winning coalition on,” she said in the interview, citing an article by The Associated Press.

It “found how Senator Obama’s support among working, hard-working Americans, white Americans, is weakening again, and how whites in both states who had not completed college were supporting me.”

“There’s a pattern emerging here,” she said.

What pattern is this, Hillary? That the majority of the country (her 'much broader' base) are uneducated white morons? or is that to be a 'hard-working American,' you have to be white?

I can't understand how she can say this like it's a positive thing...

Hillary wrote:“These are the people you have to win if you’re a Democrat in sufficient numbers to actually win the election. Everybody knows that,”

isn't this a thinly veiled attack on a Black man ever becoming president? with this dogmatic unchanging view of the world, she is herself a racist, like Wright.

it hurts her case that he polls higher than her against McCain.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » May 8, 2008, 7:05 pm

It's racism. She is inciting racism just as much as Rev. Wright does.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » May 8, 2008, 7:14 pm

But Rev. Wright isn't running for president.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » May 8, 2008, 7:51 pm

I'm kind of amused by the fact that people seem particularly obsessed with the demographic of white men who loves God, country, and guns. Remember that 'angry white man' article that Noysy post awhile ago? That's the demographic that Clinton has been hammering Obama about, and the media's picked up on it.

Here's the thing though: Angry white men don't make up much of the country. White men alone are what, about 30%?

Sure, the country is still majority white (although not for too much longer...). But it's probably safe to assume that Obama will carry blacks, hispanics, women, gays, youth... once you finish getting through all his demographic advantages, he doesn't have to carry a whole hell of a lot of the angry white male vote in order to win an election.

This is really the case in pretty much any democrat/republican contest. The question is the margins by which each candidate will carry their demographics (and republicans have demographics beyond angry white men... evangelicals for instance, among others... and also, most people belong to multiple demographics, which confuses things quite a bit). Obama is likely to have uniquely strong pull in most of his demographics, meaning that a demographic is going to vote for him more strongly than they've voted for most Democrats in the past. I think there's three main reasons for this: first, he's black; second, he benefits from republican demagoguing on issues like immigration and gay rights; third, he kind of kicks ass (ok, so that one's subjective). He also benefits from the passage of time-- each election that goes by, most of the traditional democratic demographics grow while most of the traditional republican demographics shrink.

Anyway, the bottom line is that Obama could probably get like 20% of the angry white male vote and still win the election. It's not reasonable to just blithely assume that his weakness in that demographic is an achilles heel. In national elections, angry white men don't control the world. Everybody better get used to it.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » May 8, 2008, 8:15 pm

Suev, but the angry white man has made up the majority of the VOTING populace for quite some time now.

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » May 8, 2008, 8:56 pm

I think Obama has to work on the lower middle class but his biggest issue is the old folks and they love to vote.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » May 8, 2008, 8:57 pm

Truant: That hasn't been true for awhile.

Even if there were no racial minorities in the country, there are still white women. There are more white women than white men and they vote at higher rates.

But there are racial minorities, and they vote. Not quite as much as whites, but substantially. In the Kerry/Bush election, 67.2% of whites voted, 60% of blacks, 47.2% of hispanics, 42% of asians.

You can look at historical numbers for Congressional election years here:
http://www.census.gov/prod/2000pubs/p20-523.pdf

and for Presidential election years here:
http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/p20-542.pdf

The apparent bottom line is that blacks have fairly consistently turned out at a rate about 10-15% lower than the white rate since 1964, with a slight narrowing of the gap as time passes. Hispanics and asians have not been tracked for long, but they've traditionally turned out at substantially lower rates with recent rapid increases.

The historical political success of the angry white man is a product of far more than numbers.

Forthe: Old people are a potential problem. McCain is a septuagenarian war hero, Obama is a young unknown (and I'd think that the older you get, the less likely people are to vote for a black man). Obama probably needs to make inroads here and to mobilize young turnout as a counterweight.

Sirton · Post by **Sirton** » May 9, 2008, 12:40 am

Sueven.....one thing you might want to ponder when thinking about demographics is divide them up in the states......California sucks up many of the Hispanics and gays voters and lowers those numbers in other areas....We are a Republic and Not a pure demographic Democracy.

Also Hispanics in Florida are much different than Hispanics in Mexico..err I mean California...Florida and maybe Arizona Hispanics will be for Mcain....while Hispanics in Texas, California, New Mexico will only be slightly for Obama, because of racial issues among Hispanics voting for a black man are low(not me saying but looking at polling information Obama vs. Hillary, so please dont attack ect).

Pennsylvania, Ohio, New York, New jersey, Massachusetts ect dont have the same demographics and Obama actually polls worse against Mcain in these states consistantly, because of the racist white blue collar workers that make a higher percentage here...these people would have no problem voting for Gore or Kerry. How do you explain Mcain running even with Obama in Massachusetts?(the most democrat state in 50 years).

now Obama gets a higher percent of vote in the mid west than Hillary...which Mcain will carry by 30+% points anyways...so carrying those states Obama vs Hillary are pretty much useless to carry at this point in time.

Obama has gotten tremendous turnout compared to Republicans ect...but so did Democrats with the Dukakis primarys and he got completely toasted. Remember 49% of Hillary supporters in last exit poll said would sit home or vote for Mcain...That is over twice the normal % in a primary....so insrtead of 10-12% actually doing this in the general maybe 20-25% will??

In all seriousness due to current demographics I really think Hillary would beat Mcain hands down taking key states like Michigan, ohio, pennsylvania, and Arkansas while securing new jersey and the entire NE with CA, Wa OR...while making Florida a battle ground for Mcain to defend like crazy.

Obama vs Mcain....Obama will solidify Minnesotta, Washington, Oregon and make fight for Colorado, New Mexico, Ohio...While Mcain will make Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Massachusetts, New hampshire..hell maybe even California a fight...While solidifying still the south and the mid west...

Plus Hillary is going to makesure Obama is to tainted by the General election....so she can run again in 2012 vs Mcain(who will be way to old & over 3 terms in the whitehouse for one party is almost unheard of.) besides FDR and Truman.

I know polls mean shit now , but realclearpolitics.com has some to look at...Id say rasmussen has been the most accurate since Ive been studying them since 2000 elections. Zogby, Pew, NY times suck bad...Gallup is good unless tied in when CNN as far accuracy.

miir · Post by **miir** » May 9, 2008, 7:55 am

Looks like Sirton took his meds today.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » May 9, 2008, 8:36 am

Sirton:

1. On hispanics: All good points. The hispanic vote is not monolithic and is much more important in some states than in others. Some of the states where the hispanic vote will help Obama (Texas, California) are places where the help probably isn't all that important. Florida now has more hispanic democrats than hispanic republicans for the first time in awhile / ever. I think there'll probably be an extreme generational gap there, with the older ones to whom Cuba is more important supporting McCain, and the younger ones for whom Cuba is a smaller piece of the puzzle supporting Obama.

Although it's also important to note that the hispanic vote is growing and spreading very rapidly, and substantial hispanic populations are popping up in states all over the country. It's more important now than it's ever been, and it will only continue to become more important.

2. On the map: Hillary's campaign is predicated on maintaining the same basic electoral map from 2000 and 2004, and simply flipping either Ohio or Florida into the Democratic column. Both of those states are big and most likely taking either would result in winning the election. Obama's map is different. He would probably have little shot of winning either of those two states (unless the ball really just starts rolling downhill) and so he'd have to make gains elsewhere. But there's a number of places where he could do so: Virginia (the biggest target), Iowa, Colorado, etc. He would have to fight harder in Pennsylvania than Hillary, but I think he'd take it. Pennsylvania has been consistently Democratic recently, and some major organization-building got accomplished during the drawn out lead up to the primary a few weeks back.

Also, the white vote is not monolithic either. Obama does decent among whites except in Appalachia and the surrounding regions. He's hated in West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee and the surrounding areas. He does just fine in the upper midwest, northeast, west, etc. He gets hammered in the South but that's not really an issue.

I think expecting McCain to be able to seriously compete in Massachusetts, New Jersey or California is a pipe dream.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » May 9, 2008, 8:56 am

Living here, I'll agree that Obama is hated in TN. Most people laugh at me for supporting him. They can go fuck their daddy's sister all I care. I'm still voting for Obama!

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » May 9, 2008, 9:10 am

A lot is going to depend on who the running mates are. I have a theory that is possible and knowing that the Republican party has proven to be much smarter with elections than the Dems......it is possible to pull it off. Lets just say that Congress actually DOES get an amendment through before running mates are picked that allows foreign born, long term citizens to occupy the Presidential or VP seats. Lets say that McCain then picks the Governator as his running man.....it would be an absolute landslide for McCain. Conversely, if McCain picked someone like Guiliani and Obama picked someone like Strickland from Ohio....I would have to pull for Obama and hope he was assassinated.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » May 9, 2008, 9:23 am

Spang wrote:Living here, I'll agree that Obama is hated in TN. Most people laugh at me for supporting him. They can go fuck their daddy's sister all I care. I'm still voting for Obama!

How old are you Spang? Not sarcasm either. I'd really like to know.

miir · Post by **miir** » May 9, 2008, 9:26 am

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:How old are you Spang? Not sarcasm either. I'd really like to know.

29 according to his profile...

Spang · Post by **Spang** » May 9, 2008, 9:34 am

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:How old are you Spang? Not sarcasm either. I'd really like to know.

Not as old and wise as you are, oh great one!

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » May 9, 2008, 9:48 am

Spang wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:How old are you Spang? Not sarcasm either. I'd really like to know.
Not as old and wise as you are, oh great one!

Like I said, I wasn't aiming at that. I was just curious.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » May 9, 2008, 9:58 am

What does my age have to do with anything? Why should it matter?

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » May 9, 2008, 10:16 am

Spang wrote:What does my age have to do with anything? Why should it matter?

I said I wasn't going to go there. Now you want me to go there?

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » May 9, 2008, 10:18 am

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Spang wrote:What does my age have to do with anything? Why should it matter?
I said I wasn't going to go there. Now you want me to go there?

So, in other words, you were going there from the beginning.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » May 9, 2008, 10:27 am

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:I said I wasn't going to go there. Now you want me to go there?

It doesn't matter, but sure, go ahead.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » May 9, 2008, 11:24 am

How old are you, Midnyte?

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » May 9, 2008, 11:31 am

I have hope that by the time Midnyte gets to be my age, perhaps he won't be such an unlikeable, useless, know-it-all, smug, priggish waste of life.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » May 9, 2008, 11:33 am

Spang is younger than Midnyte so Spangs opinion doesn't count amirite?

Kaldaur · Post by **Kaldaur** » May 9, 2008, 11:38 am

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:A lot is going to depend on who the running mates are. I have a theory that is possible and knowing that the Republican party has proven to be much smarter with elections than the Dems......it is possible to pull it off. Lets just say that Congress actually DOES get an amendment through before running mates are picked that allows foreign born, long term citizens to occupy the Presidential or VP seats. Lets say that McCain then picks the Governator as his running man.....it would be an absolute landslide for McCain. Conversely, if McCain picked someone like Guiliani and Obama picked someone like Strickland from Ohio....I would have to pull for Obama and hope he was assassinated.

You're a fuck. Christ, if McCain won, who the hell would wish for him to die?
And besides, you're an ignorant idiot. Congress couldn't pass an Amendment to the Constitution, it would have to be ratified by 3/4 of the states as well, which just wouldn't happen before November.
Spang, apparently age represents your ability to reason. Once you hit a magic number, as represented by Mid's age, and you also subject your brain to large amounts of chemicals, it makes sense that only people over a certain age are qualified to make an objective decision.
I think the far more objective thing to do at this point would be to deny anyone who voted for G Dub the right to vote this election. Consider it a slap on the wrist. "Now, now, you have to do a lot better next time! Time out for four years." That would encourage idiocy to learn from their mistakes rather than wish for a presidential candidate to die.

Deward · Post by **Deward** » May 9, 2008, 12:48 pm

I have a couple opinions to add here. First off, Angry white poor men don't seem to vote much. I am not sure of the exact numbers but I don't think they are that great of a percentage of the overall vote. Obama is bringing a lot of peop-le out to vote that wouldn't normally vote. I am a strong independent/Libertarian who has always voted third party. This year I will vote for Obama so long as he does not accept Hilary as a running mate.

I believe the only reason Hilary is still in it at this point is because the Republicans are encouraging their people to vote for her. McCain knows he can beat Hilary. I also think that Hilary and the Clinton machine have something up their sleeves to steal the nomination. I don't know what it is but they have been playing dirty pool for much too long. I expect some big announcement that will 'Gary Hart' Obama in some way within the next month.

Noysyrump · Post by **Noysyrump** » May 9, 2008, 12:51 pm

Also Hispanics in Florida are much different than Hispanics in Mexico..err I mean California...

God I hate you people.

Sirton · Post by **Sirton** » May 9, 2008, 1:35 pm

Now I know its real early and polls really mean shit now until VPs are selected and conventions are done...but I think they may show areas of potential.

On florida: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls ... a-418.html Rasmussen has been te most acurate polling source I have seen since 2000.....so i use them as my focal and then I use the others for the +/-. Sorry but I think with that type of number Obama will be a long shot there.....Exspecially since Hispanic vote split there....Then OLD vote will goto Mcain because hes OOOLLLDDD...Old people hillary could split, but I don't that Obama can atleast not nearly aswell.

On PAhttp://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls ... a-244.html...this shows to be a battleground for obama...Hell win BIG numbers in Philadelphia, but thats about it. Were Mcain will do better on the blue collar than Bush was able too. I think this state or Ohio should be were Obama selects his VP from unless its a ultra liberal...

On OH http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls ... a-400.html looks like a slight leaner to Mcain....but quite abit of time till November.

On IA: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls ... a-209.html this is one for the obamanation.

On NJ: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls ... a-250.html I think this shows a lean to Obama...so the important thing for Mcain would be that Obama may have to put some money here.....

On CO: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_ ... l_election now this maybe a gem for Obama....This will be a fight he could win. If the election was like the Bush elections, but Obama wins CO and IA. That maybe all he needs.

MA: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls ... a-575.htmlyes a pipe dream..Survey USA sucks anyways.

CA: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls ... a-558.html pipe dream for Mccain, but He should be running even better numbers than this.....Im sorry but this shows bad for Obamas Hispanic support that you say he has. And the immigration issue..Mccain is the best republican we could have running for hispanics.

On MI: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_ ... l_election now with there vote not being counted in this primary.. Obama people stopped a revote or fire house vote here....these numbers may even get better for Mccain. This is another battleground state that normally isnt...

On NH: who give a crap its so small

Mccain wins 2 of OH, MI, PA its over for Obama..no matter if he wins both CO and IA and NM....And I think FL is out of reach to counter...atleast atm.

The other major factor is Hillary has still not gotten out of the race.....I am really starting to believe she wants to hurt obama enough, so he can't win. In 2012 Mccain will be Older than dirt and be easy pickings for her, and Obama will be another failed candidate.

Sirton · Post by **Sirton** » May 9, 2008, 1:36 pm

Hey Noysyrump.

TIC

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » May 9, 2008, 1:39 pm

Sirton, you do realize that citing a right-wing site like RCP as your primary source of information is not really acceptable for most people on this site, right? It won't really convince people of anything, much more than someone saying "Ann Coulter wrote..." or "Rush Limbaugh said..."

Also, please forgive me for going a little grammar/spelling nazi on you here, but please for jebus sake, it's "etc." as in "et cetera," not "ect." It's hard enough to parse some of your posts, but that one drives me especially crazy.

Sirton · Post by **Sirton** » May 9, 2008, 1:45 pm

Im citing actual polling information from RCP...not someones opinion...these are numbers that the polls have released.....so it doesnt matter that its RCP ect.

Anyways im talking with Sueven....hes smart enough to see what im talking about and debate it...Hell know im not pulling some right wing propaganda from some right wing site....but just polling data, because its the easiest place to get it ect.

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » May 9, 2008, 3:12 pm

African Americans are going to vote in HUGE numbers this fall, number never seen in their voting block before.

Drinsic Darkwood · Post by **Drinsic Darkwood** » May 9, 2008, 3:44 pm

An ellipsis is not a substitute for any and all punctuation. There are these things called periods and commas. On some rare occasions, I shit you not, they are useful. Jesus, it's like trying to read something from Drudge again.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » May 9, 2008, 3:57 pm

I agree with you on Florida. The hispanic vote will only be a minimal boost to Obama there (at best), and the combination of conservative Jews and old people is about as unfavorable as it gets for him.

On California: I agree that McCain is a good Republican candidate to draw the hispanic vote, but I think he'll end up being hurt by association. The Republican base cares VERY strongly about immigration, and they're already skeptical of McCain. I think he won't be able to articulate a more hispanic-friendly position on immigration because the Republican base would go nuts and that would hurt him more than gaining some hispanics with a moderate position would help him. I expect that we'll see a fair amount of the hispanic vote consolidate around Obama once Hillary is gone (assuming she drops, endorses Obama, etc). Obama v. McCain is not as favorable a matchup with respect to hispanics as, say, Clinton v. Tancredo, but it's still a favorable matchup.

And yes, the point about black/hispanic animosity is important.

On Michigan: We'll see how the primary issue affects things. I think it'll hurt more in Florida than in Michigan (because Obama wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan... it would be totally irrational to count that state), and I'm mostly giving Florida up for dead anyway, but I don't live in either place and don't know how people feel about it. It seems like a silly issue to me (newsflash: Barack Obama did not tell Michigan to move up its vote in violation of DNC rules... blame the DNC and the state party), but maybe it'll be important.

So let's say that Obama loses Michigan and Ohio. That'd be 17 fewer electoral votes than 2004. Let's say that he wins Virginia, Colorado, Iowa and New Mexico, all of which I think are fairly likely. That'd be a gain of 34. He'd still lose the election 269-268. That means he would need to pick off one more state. There isn't anywhere that looks really easy, but there are places that are possibilities. The Mountain West has been trending Democratic as the Republican party moves farther and farther away from small government. Wyoming and Montana (which now has a Democratic governor and two Democratic senators) are possibilities. Missouri is a possibility. He might be able to pick off some random small state by giving the VP slot to a big name from whichever state he targets. So I don't think losing Michigan and Ohio is a death blow, but yeah, retaining Michigan is very important.

On the Mountain West, I think what happens to Ron Paul is really important. If his supporters feel disrespected or belittled or ignored by the Republicans and McCain, that will really hurt the party in the Mountain West. They love Ron Paul out there.

If Obama retains Michigan and Pennsylvania, he's got a real good chance of winning. All he would need to do then would be to pick up 18 electoral votes, which he could do via Virginia + any of Colorado, Iowa, or New Mexico.

Let's also not forget that Obama is likely to have vastly more money and organization than McCain. This will allow him to compete in more states, and force McCain to choose his battles more carefully.

Of course, it's not out of the question that the election could end up being a landslide in either direction, but I'm doubtful of that.

And yeah, citing polls from RCP is fine. It's not like they're doctoring the numbers. That's where I generally go for polls myself.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » May 9, 2008, 4:01 pm

Both of you, what makes you think Pennsylvania is up in the air? When was the last time PA went Republican?

I live in PA and as far as I'm concerned, this is a democrat state with the 2nd largest population of old people in the country.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » May 9, 2008, 4:08 pm

I don't really think it's up in the air. There's a slight possibility he could lose it, but I think it's pretty slight. Reason being: Rednecks don't like him and old people aren't thrilled either. But I think PA is blue enough that it's not much of a risk.

Noysyrump · Post by **Noysyrump** » May 9, 2008, 4:16 pm

Drinsic Darkwood wrote:An ellipsis is not a substitute for any and all punctuation. There are these things called periods and commas. On some rare occasions, I shit you not, they are useful. Jesus, it's like trying to read something from Drudge again.

I fuckin love ellipsiseses... so on that note... fuck off.

Edit PS. ...

laneela · Post by **laneela** » May 9, 2008, 4:18 pm

I would like to point out that my grandmother is an old (82 years), Cuban conservative woman and a HUGE Obama supporter. She was also an educator and a social worker most of her life though. Most of my family supports Obama, with only a select few being Hillary fans and even fewer giving their nod to McCain. This from a family whose older generation were very heavily republican in the Clinton era.

I don't think we can take too much into account who's done what and voted which way in the past. We're dealing with a few firsts in these elections. A president with the lowest approval ratings in American history is leaving the White House which will definitely affect his party. We have a woman and a black man running for candidacy. Young people and minorities are voting in record numbers. The times, they are a-changing...

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » May 9, 2008, 4:39 pm

More good points!

Spang · Post by **Spang** » May 9, 2008, 4:44 pm

Sirton · Post by **Sirton** » May 9, 2008, 6:39 pm

On Virginia: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls ... a-551.html dont see obama picking that up anymore than Mccain picking off NJ.

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » May 9, 2008, 7:11 pm

Sirton wrote:On Virginia: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls ... a-551.html dont see obama picking that up anymore than Mccain picking off NJ.

Before the Dems went negative he was leading McCain. I don't think we can put much stock in McCain vs Clinton or McCain vs Obama polls while we have large percentages of Clinton and Obama supporters hating the opposing candidate.

Wait a month after Clinton resigns or steals the nomination and we should get a good measure.

Bagar- · Post by **Bagar-** » May 10, 2008, 4:40 am

Oh wow, so we have three TN'ers here.

Represent!

PS: I always liked Drudge. And Sirton, too. PALLY POWER and suchforth; I believe that was the phrase. Then again, I use a Wow mod called pallypower so I might just be mistaken.

Drinsic Darkwood · Post by **Drinsic Darkwood** » May 10, 2008, 6:12 am

Bagar- wrote:Oh wow, so we have three TN'ers here.

Represent!

You know, I'm surprised by the number of Obama supporters in the Murfreesboro area, but then again, it is a college town, and most of the people I know are students. Most of my family (from Clarksville) are McCain supporters that fear Obama just as much as Hillary. Prior to McCain, they were all over Huckabee. The only democrat in my family is my grandmother, and she still thinks Obama's a Muslim. Go Tennessee.

Bagar- · Post by **Bagar-** » May 10, 2008, 7:16 am

Yep. I go to MTSU, and I still see people driving around with Ron Paul stickers and shit. Definately a college town

.

Sirton · Post by **Sirton** » May 10, 2008, 2:15 pm

Forthe I agree that polls don't mean much now....not until after the convention really.

I think Obama's best chance is to figure out how to get Hillary out of the race asap. Even if it means splitting Michigan 50/50 and Florida to what the percentage was. Then I think he needs to select Ohio Gov. Ted Strickland as VP. Then hell be in the drivers seat.

I think Mccain's VP is a much harder choice. Should he select someone like Romney in order to pull in his conservative base. Or Rudy since hes respected, but I think hed actually hurt Mccains chances. Collin Powell would be the obvious best VP, but he wont do it. Rice won't do it either. Arnold is not able to be VP. Maybe Tom Ridge since that may help him with Pennsylvania. Maybe hell pick Crist in Florida, but he doesn't really need him in Florida for Obama. Maybe if Hillary was running.

gtg

Kaldaur · Post by **Kaldaur** » May 10, 2008, 3:21 pm

Sirton, I don't know much about Strickland. Why is he a viable VP candidate?
Also, why won't Rice serve as McCain's VP?

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » May 10, 2008, 3:21 pm

Sirton wrote:Forthe I agree that polls don't mean much now....not until after the convention really.

I think Obama's best chance is to figure out how to get Hillary out of the race asap. Even if it means splitting Michigan 50/50 and Florida to what the percentage was. Then I think he needs to select Ohio Gov. Ted Strickland as VP. Then hell be in the drivers seat.

I think Mccain's VP is a much harder choice. Should he select someone like Romney in order to pull in his conservative base. Or Rudy since hes respected, but I think hed actually hurt Mccains chances. Collin Powell would be the obvious best VP, but he wont do it. Rice won't do it either. Arnold is not able to be VP. Maybe Tom Ridge since that may help him with Pennsylvania. Maybe hell pick Crist in Florida, but he doesn't really need him in Florida for Obama. Maybe if Hillary was running.

gtg

Ted Strickland would certainly help him but I think Obama needs a VP with military experience. He should pick Colin Powell!!! j/k Imagine the reaction from all the folks that currently think Obama is going to imprison the white people.

I think if he has balls he is going to pick Chuck Hagel but it is a gamble, a lot of lefties would probably freak out.

I think McCain is in a tough spot for VP. He needs someone young, socially conservative, with strong economic knowledge and preferrably little or no connection to Bush. Romney or Rudy would have the evangelicals freaking out.

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » May 10, 2008, 3:24 pm

Kaldaur wrote:Sirton, I don't know much about Strickland. Why is he a viable VP candidate?
Also, why won't Rice serve as McCain's VP?

Ohio, religion, very white

http://governor.ohio.gov/Default.aspx?tabid=442

Rice says she isn't interested, but they all say that.