Obama 2012

[Xyun]

Oh man I love election years around here. It's comical there are people out there that think McCain has a snowball's chance in hell of becoming the next president. You people fail to look at or just don't understand what is taking place within the democratic party. Wake up and take a look at the numbers, you think we're bringing in people by the millions is a coincidence or negligible? You think the shattering of any and every fund-raising record that has ever existed is a coincidence or negligible? Use your fucking brains dipshits. This year belongs to us and no amount of underhanded bullshit by corrupt republicans or democrats is going to steal this thing from us. Not this year. So you can forget about your silly little pipe dreams of another joke presidency. Not happening.


McCain by a landslide...

[Winnow]

Do you really think all of those Obama supporters are going to vote for Hillary once they get screwed over? You can use the same "they'll stay at home" excuse people are using for the republican vote. The Hillary/Obama circus isn't ending anytime soon.

McCain over Hillary is a no brainer.

McCain vs Obama is a coin flip atm IMO.

Want to see some numbers?

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/

McCain McCain McCain

[Daboohk]

Want to see some numbers?

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/

McCain McCain McCain

More proving your point that it's a coin toss at this point between McCain and Obama than anything, but it does appear Obama still has a slight lead over McCain.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls ... a-225.html

[Funkmasterr]

Oh man I love election years around here. It's comical there are people out there that think McCain has a snowball's chance in hell of becoming the next president. You people fail to look at or just don't understand what is taking place within the democratic party. Wake up and take a look at the numbers, you think we're bringing in people by the millions is a coincidence or negligible? You think the shattering of any and every fund-raising record that has ever existed is a coincidence or negligible? Use your fucking brains dipshits. This year belongs to us and no amount of underhanded bullshit by corrupt republicans or democrats is going to steal this thing from us. Not this year. So you can forget about your silly little pipe dreams of another joke presidency. Not happening.


McCain by a landslide...

Your arrogance amuses the shit out of me sometimes. Are you going to feel really stupid if you are wrong?

[Daboohk]

Oh man I love election years around here. It's comical there are people out there that think McCain has a snowball's chance in hell of becoming the next president. You people fail to look at or just don't understand what is taking place within the democratic party. Wake up and take a look at the numbers, you think we're bringing in people by the millions is a coincidence or negligible? You think the shattering of any and every fund-raising record that has ever existed is a coincidence or negligible? Use your fucking brains dipshits. This year belongs to us and no amount of underhanded bullshit by corrupt republicans or democrats is going to steal this thing from us. Not this year. So you can forget about your silly little pipe dreams of another joke presidency. Not happening.


McCain by a landslide...

In 2004, numerous members of this board thought victory was ensured for John Kerry. It's very difficult to predict the voting patterns of the American populace.

We think it will be a landslide for Kerry. Not because of the swing vote or the Democrat's mobilization, but because we believe that many Republicans simply will not vote. Whether consciously or sub-consciously, they will stay home on election day. We have faith that the population at large is not as stupid as they think it is.

I am just enjoying myself bookmarking all these threads so I can dredge them back up after Kerry wins the election.

http://www.veeshanvault.org/forums/view ... ry#p206335

This is not a slam at any particular person. I realize that Kerry wasn't as strong a candidate as Obama is today, or did he have the fundraising clout. However, in 2004, many of us thought the "anti-Bush" vote would have been enough to secure the election.

[Nick]

Kerry certainly wasn't a strong candidate, but he still one hell of a stronger candidate than George Bush. Which really isn't saying a lot.


The fact it's even close (with McCain behind Obama btw) shows you the deluded nature of a large number of people. Pretty sad. We sure as hell can't let one of dem der niggers in the white house jim-bob

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Kerry certainly wasn't a strong candidate, but he still one hell of a stronger candidate than George Bush. Which really isn't saying a lot.


The fact it's even close (with McCain behind Obama btw) shows you the deluded nature of a large number of people. Pretty sad. We sure as hell can't let one of dem der niggers in the white house jim-bob

haha. You are so jaded.

[Metanis]

Oh man I love election years around here. It's comical there are people out there that think McCain has a snowball's chance in hell of becoming the next president. You people fail to look at or just don't understand what is taking place within the democratic party. Wake up and take a look at the numbers, you think we're bringing in people by the millions is a coincidence or negligible? You think the shattering of any and every fund-raising record that has ever existed is a coincidence or negligible? Use your fucking brains dipshits. This year belongs to us and no amount of underhanded bullshit by corrupt republicans or democrats is going to steal this thing from us. Not this year. So you can forget about your silly little pipe dreams of another joke presidency. Not happening.


McCain by a landslide...

If I were Obama and confronted with you as a supporter I would say, "Get thee behind me Satan!". Your attitude represents the same old tired elite intolerance which he is trying to transcend.

Oh wait, on second thought, YOU ARE the epitome of the Obama spirit! Us old bitter white Christians just don't understand how Marxist Black Liberation Theology is going to set us FREE! Oh wait... I'm already free. But wait! I'm white so I must be guilty of something. Well, just double my taxes, that'll teach me something! Yessiree JimBobBoy, that's certainly a compelling campaign narrative!

One number I strongly urge you to review is George W. Bush's approval rating. It's right there in left hand column of RCP. As I type this his approval rating is 30.8%. Let me express this another way to you, nearly 1 in 3 Americans still SUPPORT President Bush. That's 1 in 3 that will NEVER vote for Obama or Clinton. While Obama has rolled up some impressive numbers for himself he still has a FIGHT ahead of him.

Our side is a little old, and we are maybe slower to get started. We really didn't care for our own slate of candidates. I personally preferred Mitt's politics but gee whiz, what a cold fish. Old RINO John is a tough act to support but we will certainly know what we are getting instead of having to guess as with the Obamameister.

[Siji]

Now I know why your wife did all the talking in groups.. I wouldn't let your ignorant ass speak either.

[Kaldaur]

Wow. Marxist Black Liberation Theology? Hahahahaha, turn off Hannity, man.

[Noysyrump]

Nick almost had it.



45% of the population will vote democrat because that is their party.
45% of the population will vote republican because that is their party.
10% of the population just doesnt get it. They think the personality matters, and they can vote either way. This is who presidents campain for.

Now, Let's not kid ourselves into believing racism is dead. I dont just mean white supremecy racism. I mean everyones racism, as a whole. I've heard plenty of hardcore 'liberal' friends slip out a remark about "figures, its a ____. They always do that. Typical." Some of them do actually believe that. This also aplies to sexism.

Now if you figure that in that 45% democrat vote. Some percentage of that, whether it be 5% or 10% or more, will actually not vote for a black man, or a woman. So by running Obama and Hillary, I think the dems are going to loose some of their own base. Maybe they stay home, maybe they vote for McCain. Either way, I forsee a huge loss for the dems.

If I'm wrong, you all have my permission to point and laugh. But when I prove to be right, you all better suck it up, and eat deez nutz.

[Nick]

Oh don't worry Noysy, we know McCain will win - we all have absolute faith that America will prove that is filled with idiots by mostly voting for McCain.

The point is, Obama should be the next President, but wont.

[Winnow]

The point is, Obama should be the next President, but wont.

That's not the point at all. What is becoming clear is that people will vote for anything that's not republican because of their hatred for Bush. Obama is a good speaker. So are used car salesmen. Don't forget that the newbie candidate can say anything because they haven't had to do anything yet. Obama is your "second life" online candidate. They look great because you've only had a limited view of them.

Obama is a great speaker but breaks down into a stuttering nervous wreck when he has to debate someone. I'm not so sure that's a good thing in a presidential candidate. And this is the guy that wants to have talks with Iran, etc? By the time Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was done with Obama, he wouldn't need to make his own nukes because Obama would give him some of ours.

Look past the sweet talking. McCain has his faults but we know what we're going to get with no bullshit.

[Forthe]

I think Noysyrump's racism\sexism argument is true but it is counterbalanced by McCain's age and these "senior moments" he has.

I do agree with the landslide if Clinton somehow steals the nomination, that is going to put the brakes on the left's enthusiasm bigtime. The only way I see this happening is if Obama blows up.

If it is Obama vs McCain I'd bet on McCain being beat worse than Bob Dole. McCain is doing good in the polls at the moment because he is not being directly compared to anyone. Put these 2 side by side on the same stage and it is going to be ugly.

There is still the issue of VP choices which will be very important for both. Any predictions on VP choices?

Mine:
Obama: Needs military experience
Chuck Hagel - This would shake things up
Wesley Clark - Safer choice

McCain: Needs someone young and crispy
Charlie Crist - Young, cozy with crispies, delivers florida

[Kaldaur]

Isn't Clark a big Hilary supporter?
I think Wesley Clark would make a good VP, as I liked him in the 2004 campaign. He would make a good, experienced voice to supplement Obama's message, plus underlay the fact that Obama has the support of those who have had to make the big decisions.

[Daboohk]

Wesley Clark endorsed Hillary last year, September.

[Sueven]

I think Webb from VA would be perfect if he weren't a similarly inexperienced Senator.

[Forthe]

Isn't Clark a big Hilary supporter?
I think Wesley Clark would make a good VP, as I liked him in the 2004 campaign. He would make a good, experienced voice to supplement Obama's message, plus underlay the fact that Obama has the support of those who have had to make the big decisions.

He is one of Hilary's most prominent supporters. Speculation is he will take someone from the Clinton side to help quell the current split (Clark mentioned specifically) and Clark certainly fits the bill.

Hagel is the best choice IMHO but I'll admit I never reasearched the guy, this is straight from the gut.
-Anti - Iraq War
-Vietnam veteran
-Plenty of experience
-Seems moderate with a good temperment
-Fits in with Obama's no RED\BLUE, bridge divisions theme which Hagel himself seems to be cheerleading

I think Webb from VA would be perfect if he weren't a similarly inexperienced Senator.

I've seen Webb's name thrown around but they would lose a Senate seat if he took him.

[Daboohk]

It would be interesting to see Hagel on the ticket.

QUESTIONER: A very simple question, would you accept a position in a Democratic administration?

HAGEL: I would consider a serious offer in any administration if it comes from a serious president who wants to do something to make our world better and our country stronger. (Applause.)

Source: http://www.cfr.org/publication/14895/co ... transcript

[Nick]

The point is, Obama should be the next President, but wont.

Obama is a great speaker but breaks down into a stuttering nervous wreck when he has to debate someone. I'm not so sure that's a good thing in a presidential candidate. And this is the guy that wants to have talks with Iran, etc? By the time Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was done with Obama, he wouldn't need to make his own nukes because Obama would give him some of ours.

Are you actually being serious?

[Aabidano]

And whether you believe it or not, people don't want to be in Iraq for potentially another '100 years' as McCain says. They want to get the fuck out. If we want to prevent the country (ours) from turning into Iraq, we need to get the fuck out.

Bailing out of there without having a stable govt. in place would be incredibly stupid. Screws the people of Iraq over short term and the rest of the region and the world in the long term.

Unless of course you think having another Iran or Saudi Arabia around is a good thing. Extremist governments with unlimited cash supplies aren't a good thing.

No, I don't like it that we're there or the reasons we went in he first place. Too late to do anything but deal with the cards we've got and make the best of it.

[Siji]

And whether you believe it or not, people don't want to be in Iraq for potentially another '100 years' as McCain says. They want to get the fuck out. If we want to prevent the country (ours) from turning into Iraq, we need to get the fuck out.

Bailing out of there without having a stable govt. in place would be incredibly stupid. Screws the people of Iraq over short term and the rest of the region and the world in the long term.

Unless of course you think having another Iran or Saudi Arabia around is a good thing. Extremist governments with unlimited cash supplies aren't a good thing.

No, I don't like it that we're there or the reasons we went in he first place. Too late to do anything but deal with the cards we've got and make the best of it.

We can't afford to keep this up forever. The money we've spent there and continue to spend there could do a lot of good if kept at home. The problem is that the Iraq police and so called government isn't stepping up because they know we're still be there. We can't carry them forever. At some point they've either got to stand up and do their job or deal with the outcome. Even if you believe we went there to help, you can only help for so long. Teach a man to fish and all that bullshit. It's not like the terrorist types are ever going to be defeated or ever go away. And since there's no chance of working out some kind of peace agreement with them, we either teach and leave or we destroy our own country trying to support theirs. Is it a shitty deal for the Iraq citizens? Definitely.

[Aabidano]

We can't afford to keep this up forever. The money we've spent there and continue to spend there could do a lot of good if kept at home.

I haven't seen numbers, I'd guess the bulk of the Iraq spend is going directly to US corporations and then back into our economy. I'd even argue it's buffering us form a worse recession than we'd be in otherwise. It is adding to our deficit, which is owned by people we really don't want to do favors for anyway and is worth less every day. From a very cynical standpoint it's a good thing.

Back to the topic, you wouldn't teach your kid to swim by throwing him in a pool full of sharks, or send him to hang out with crack dealers to learn that drugs are bad.

No argument we need to get out, Obama's vision of it either highlights his lack of experience, or his contempt for the intelligence of his constituents. What he's proposing in this respect won't happen, in common with most of his ideas as others have noted.

[Fairweather Pure]

We can't afford to keep this up forever. The money we've spent there and continue to spend there could do a lot of good if kept at home. The problem is that the Iraq police and so called government isn't stepping up because they know we're still be there. We can't carry them forever. At some point they've either got to stand up and do their job or deal with the outcome. Even if you believe we went there to help, you can only help for so long. Teach a man to fish and all that bullshit. It's not like the terrorist types are ever going to be defeated or ever go away. And since there's no chance of working out some kind of peace agreement with them, we either teach and leave or we destroy our own country trying to support theirs. Is it a shitty deal for the Iraq citizens? Definitely.

This is my thought too. Also, the no-win, shit result of this should never be associated with pulling out of Iraq. It should be associated with the mistake of invading to begin with. All fault lies with the invasion under false pretense. Everything after that colossal mistake is just sand on the beach.

Many politicians will try and shift the blame and burden of guilt onto others, when it's painfully obvious who got us in this mess to begin with. But with all mistakes, someone has to be man enough and clean it up. The sooner the cleaning starts the better IMO. This war has really hurt our country.

[Nick]

The worrying thing is that the assumption is that America is cleaning up in Iraq now and making it a safer place. it's significantly less safe, and has been, ever since the US illegally occupied it, than it was before when Saddam ruled it.

The seeds of blowback from iraq are already planted, and US involvement in Iraq for further years is not necessarily the good thing so many Americans appear to think it is. The place isn't being cleaned up, it's still a fucking shithole. In 99.9% of the country, its as bad as it ever was.

From a purely selfish stance, it would be in the US' best interests to leave anyway, since another Abu Ghraib, Fallujah, or the rise of another Al Sadr is bound to come out, sooner or later.

[Winnow]

By the time Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was done with Obama, he wouldn't need to make his own nukes because Obama would give him some of ours.

Are you actually being serious?

Are you seriously questioning my seriousness concerning that quote?

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

I am predicting that they amend the Constitution before running mates are announced and the Governator ends up running as VP with McCain. You talk about winning a landslide election....that would end any care over who got the Dem bid.

[Winnow]

I am predicting that they amend the Constitution before running mates are announced and the Governator ends up running as VP with McCain. You talk about winning a landslide election....that would end any care over who got the Dem bid.

Is it just the president that had to be born in the US (or territory) or also the VP?

If the Republicans wrap up Florida or California, it's all over. McCain is also polling well in the other swing states.

[Siji]

We can't afford to keep this up forever. The money we've spent there and continue to spend there could do a lot of good if kept at home.

Back to the topic, you wouldn't teach your kid to swim by throwing him in a pool full of sharks, or send him to hang out with crack dealers to learn that drugs are bad.

No, I wouldn't throw the kid into a pool of sharks.. but if the child refused to learn to swim because they simply depended on me holding them above water, I'd try something different or stop trying. We can't keep the Iraq police and government above water forever.

When they don't bother showing up for work, or quit their jobs when something bad happens they can't exactly expect to make progress. And no, before you ask, you couldn't pay me to do the job either and I do feel for them - but I feel more for our own people that are over there when they shouldn't be (and have no choice but to be). I can't even imagine what it must be like to live there. But you have to wonder if they'd rather just have stayed under Saddam and/or whatever corrupt leadership would pop up if we left.

[Ashur]

VP must meet the same reqs as president I believe, as they may inherit the office.

Boy howdy would that be a bitchen ticket. I don't see it happening, but I'd love to see that rule reviewed, as it's relevance isn't what it once was.

Just think, Arnie could campaign for the oval office in 2012 with "I'll be back".

[Winnow]

VP must meet the same reqs as president I believe, as they may inherit the office.

You're probably right but they could always skip the VP. Alexander Haig, "I'm in charge"