Computer Freezing Issue

Canoe · Post by **Canoe** » April 7, 2008, 10:42 am

Just thought I'd throw this out there to see if anyone had any ideas.

I have a computer that's getting old and tired (a little over 4 years old), and I am getting ready to replace it but need it to hang on for a couple more months.

What happens is sometimes when I'm just surfing the net or playing a web based game (such as ogame), the computer will freeze completely.

I don't think it's a Video Card issue, as the entire computer freezes, not just the graphics wigging out.

I also don't think it's an over heating issue, as many times the computer has only been on for less than 5 minutes, and literally all i'm doing is checking e-mail / browsing the internet. In addition, I've checked the case, and it is completely cool to the touch.

I tried the simple things (defragging the HD etc), but as I'm not as computer literate as I'd like, I didn't get very far.

I don't know if this helps, but for a month or two, this would only happen if the computer had just been turned on, if it had been running for a few hours, it would never happen. So I just got around it by leaving the computer on during the day, so when i got home from work it would be fine. However starting yesterday, it happened a LOT (maybe 15-20 times total throughout the day).

I don't have the exact specs with me atm (at work), but it's running Windows XP on an intel chip.

Any suggestions would be appreciated!

Thanks.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » April 7, 2008, 10:51 am

format.

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » April 7, 2008, 11:00 am

This problem you are having is typically a driver issue. The other thing it can be is a RAM failure...so everytime that peice of ram is accessed enough, it fails and freezes up your OS.

So I would start with your video driver. Uninstall the old one in safe mode, restart into normal mode, reinstall video driver.

Do the same with your motherboard chipset drivers. Uninstall them in safe mode, reboot in normal mode, reinstall drivers.

Download the latest ones, of course. If that doesn't work, pull a stick of ram, or run on just one stick of ram for a few months before you replace the rig. Worth a shot of course. There is always the reformatting as well...but that's last resort in my mind.

Canoe · Post by **Canoe** » April 7, 2008, 11:06 am

Thanks - I'll give those a shot tonight (assuming I can keep it from freezing long enough to down load drivers

)

I'm hoping not to reformat, as I have a lot of stuff on there, and I don't think I have the original disks (It's a dell, and came with all the software loaded on it, I don't think back then they gave you disks).

Didn't even think about a bad RAM stick, should have been one of my first things to test.

Thanks again.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » April 7, 2008, 1:10 pm

There are spyware apps out there that will cause freezing/hitching issues. Update your spyware and AV software and scan that shit before doing anything else.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » April 7, 2008, 1:19 pm

seek out XP Black CD Edition. overall, people are too resistant to formatting. as a windows user since 3.1, i know there is no better way to keep a system in good shape than to format it as needed. if a windows install lasts a year, it's been too long.

linux on the other hand... well my server has been up for 888.5 days without a reboot, even.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » April 7, 2008, 1:29 pm

Fash wrote:seek out XP Black CD Edition. overall, people are too resistant to formatting. as a windows user since 3.1, i know there is no better way to keep a system in good shape than to format it as needed. if a windows install lasts a year, it's been too long.

linux on the other hand... well my server has been up for 888.5 days without a reboot, even.

What's with the XP Black CD Edition? I've been using Vista since Octoberish, and I am planning to switch back to XP when I format next (soon). I happen to own Windows XP (yay for free software for being a CS student, I miss that), but if Black edition is something special, I would consider using it.

Also, do you happen to use Avast virus scanner? A friend was having a problem with wow and other applications just freezing for a few seconds, and he eventually figured out it was caused by Avast (yarrrrrrr).

Fash · Post by **Fash** » April 7, 2008, 1:47 pm

XP Black (There are many versions of it now) is just an automated install, genuine activated, copy of windows XP that comes with silent installs for a good number of applications, depending on the version. Your mileage may vary, but I love the CD Edition that I found... I would be willing to upload it.

I don't use Avast... I have been a fan of mcafee enterprise and i use a perpetually licensed version of 8.0i (also willing to share)

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » April 7, 2008, 3:29 pm

I'd re-seat everything before doing anything else. Then boot off a linux CD, the HW checks during kernel load will sometimes show bad RAM and such. Windows usually won't.

Canoe · Post by **Canoe** » April 7, 2008, 4:47 pm

I"ll try reseating, and then removing 1 of the ram sticks first.

Thanks for the tips.

cid · Post by **cid** » April 7, 2008, 7:54 pm

Look in event viewer under system and see if you are getting any hardrive errors as well.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 7, 2008, 7:59 pm

I stopped by the house the other day Cid. It's still there!

Canoe · Post by **Canoe** » April 8, 2008, 11:01 am

Well I opened the case, and saw two things:

1) There was a ton of dust / debris blocking the fan - shame on me for not cleaning it out regularly. I cleaned that out to make sure there was good air flow.

2) One of the ram chips (I have 4 X 512) was not seated completely. I fixed this, and it seemed to work for awhile.

About two hours later... it froze again

So still a lot of trouble shooting to do, I was really hoping the steps 1 and 2 would fix it. I've since updated my video driver, and it froze again so that doesn't seem to be the issue.

Next step is to re-seat the other 3 ram chips and see if that helps. After that I will one by one try removing 1 ram stick, and see if that solves the issue.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » April 8, 2008, 11:07 am

Stop wasting time and format it already.

Bad memory isn't going to cause momentary pauses, bad memory causes blue screens.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » April 8, 2008, 11:12 am

Fash wrote:Bad memory isn't going to cause momentary pauses, bad memory causes blue screens.

They are not momentary pauses. According to what he said, the entire system is locking up.

Canoe · Post by **Canoe** » April 8, 2008, 11:25 am

Boogahz wrote:
Fash wrote:Bad memory isn't going to cause momentary pauses, bad memory causes blue screens.
They are not momentary pauses. According to what he said, the entire system is locking up.

Correct, the entire system freezes up.

I'm waiting to do a reformat as a last resort, I haven't done it in a long long time, and I have a lot of data I would rather not loose on the computer.

So forgive me if I'm trying to exhaust every possible solution, prior to going down that route.

Morgrym · Post by **Morgrym** » April 8, 2008, 11:36 am

How much freespace is on your HD?

Have you run CCleaner? It is an awesome program that will take care of a lot of crap for you.

Check out pcpitstop as well and run a check there.

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » April 8, 2008, 1:05 pm

I guess you could always reinstall windows over your current copy to help rewrite a few things that may be causing some hard locks...maybe? I've never done that, but have heard of folks doing that, which keeps all of your programs and settings and stuff...not sure what it rewrites or "fixes"...but it could be worth a try if you can find your windows CD/DVD.

Trying to think of all the things I would do in your situation, that of which being to avoid reformatting...but I'm afraid those few suggestions are all I have.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » April 8, 2008, 1:15 pm

I don't think I ever bothered with reformating/reinstalling XP and never had any performances issues after multiple years much less one year as Fash states. Perhaps if you install a bunch of different crap everyday you might end up with performance problems eventually.

Canoe · Post by **Canoe** » April 8, 2008, 1:52 pm

I ran CC clean, and did the PCpitstop (which didn't show anything other than my browser cache was way to big, which i cleaned up).

I was able to do those remotely, and so far no PC lock up..... doubt that fixed the issue tho.

Will do more trouble shooting with the hardware when i get home. Thanks for the tips.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » April 8, 2008, 1:58 pm

Aslanna wrote:I don't think I ever bothered with reformating/reinstalling XP and never had any performances issues after multiple years much less one year as Fash states. Perhaps if you install a bunch of different crap everyday you might end up with performance problems eventually.

I can't remember ever having to do so either.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » April 8, 2008, 2:01 pm

You just didn't realize the performance degradation then... it happened too slow over time and you got used to it.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » April 8, 2008, 2:05 pm

Fash wrote:You just didn't realize the performance degradation then... it happened too slow over time and you got used to it.

Wrong.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » April 8, 2008, 2:06 pm

Fash wrote:You just didn't realize the performance degradation then... it happened too slow over time and you got used to it.

I guess I forgot to put on the speshul hat before using my computer

Fash · Post by **Fash** » April 8, 2008, 2:06 pm

Aslanna wrote:
Fash wrote:You just didn't realize the performance degradation then... it happened too slow over time and you got used to it.
Wrong.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » April 8, 2008, 2:10 pm

YA RLY!

But thanks for assuming I don't know what good performance would be. Listen, perform some regular system maintenance such as uninstalling crap you don't need, defragging the drive, and registry cleaning (among other tasks) and there's really no reason you should have to reformat/reinstall Windows. But hey that's just my personal opinion. What you choose to do doesn't bother really me.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » April 8, 2008, 7:36 pm

Sif defragging does shit these days.

There's certainly a lot to be said for the way you use your computer as to it's performance over time, but I seriously doubt you can effectively do housekeeping on Windows any more.

I think rebooting/restarting is one of the worst culprits for slowing turning Windows into a sloth. Based on seeing lots of corporate desktops that are continually rebooted run like crap until they're reinstalled every 12-18 months, without really getting much in the way of additional software installed in that time.

Same with linux to an extent, sure you can have a box w/ years of uptime, but it's usually been running the same shit for years too... not really a great comparison (albeit linux servers > windows servers in every way they attempt to compete)

Canoe · Post by **Canoe** » April 8, 2008, 9:23 pm

Not that you guys want to continue to hear my gripes.....

but it did lock up again earlier.

I've reseated the 4 ram chips, it locked up.... took 2 out... it locked up, replaced those two, and left the other two in... it locked up, so I'm pretty sure it's not a RAM problem unless 2 out of the 4 or 3 out of the 4 ram sticks are bad.

Will keep searching, but i'm getting discouraged, guess I'm buying a computer sooner than i thought!

Fash · Post by **Fash** » April 9, 2008, 12:31 am

Canoe wrote:I'm waiting to do a reformat as a last resort, I haven't done it in a long long time, and I have a lot of data I would rather not loose on the computer.

Is there something prohibiting you from say copying those files to flash sticks, blank cd's, or over the network?...

The only thing that needs to be re-seated is the operating system.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » April 9, 2008, 10:17 am

Fash wrote:
Canoe wrote:I'm waiting to do a reformat as a last resort, I haven't done it in a long long time, and I have a lot of data I would rather not loose on the computer.
Is there something prohibiting you from say copying those files to flash sticks, blank cd's, or over the network?...

The only thing that needs to be re-seated is the operating system.

This fixes hardware issues how? Why shouldn't he first determine if there IS a hardware issue before backing everything up, formatting, and reinstalling his OS? Sure, it might catch a driver problem, but it will not catch actual hardware issues.

Canoe · Post by **Canoe** » April 9, 2008, 10:20 am

Boogahz wrote:
Fash wrote:
Canoe wrote:I'm waiting to do a reformat as a last resort, I haven't done it in a long long time, and I have a lot of data I would rather not loose on the computer.
Is there something prohibiting you from say copying those files to flash sticks, blank cd's, or over the network?...

The only thing that needs to be re-seated is the operating system.
This fixes hardware issues how? Why shouldn't he first determine if there IS a hardware issue before backing everything up, formatting, and reinstalling his OS? Sure, it might catch a driver problem, but it will not catch actual hardware issues.

Exactly my thinking, I'm still working on it.

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » April 9, 2008, 11:35 am

If you have a Dell type machine, you can do the "repair windows install" option off the disk when it boots up, and maybe that will fix the problem? That way, all your data is preserved. Its worth a shot again, so you don't have to go through the exercise of backing everything up, *especially* since your point is to just get stability for another handful of months.

Not to scare you too much though, but I have had this similar problem a couple of times...and one of those times it was a busted motherboard. Something in the voltage regulation to the chipset was fouled up, so it would only happen as a nuisance, and non repeatable item, just like you are experiencing.

Canoe · Post by **Canoe** » April 9, 2008, 11:54 am

That's a thought, I'll see if I can find the disks.

It ran all night without freezing, but as soon as I used firefox for maybe 20 minutes it froze up again.

I ran a virus scanner and didn't find anything, so I'm still semi-convinced it's a hardware issue, but we'll see.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » April 9, 2008, 1:06 pm

Boogahz wrote:This fixes hardware issues how? Why shouldn't he first determine if there IS a hardware issue before backing everything up, formatting, and reinstalling his OS? Sure, it might catch a driver problem, but it will not catch actual hardware issues.

You can re-seat hardware all day and still not know if it's a hardware issue. One format and re-install will tell you if it's hardware or not. I'd put money on it being software. You won't catch me being a dick about many topics, and I admit I am being a dick about this... I'm telling you I'm right, and I will be proven right as this thread continues far longer than it should.

cid · Post by **cid** » April 9, 2008, 3:03 pm

Have you checked your event viewer?

Canoe · Post by **Canoe** » April 9, 2008, 3:16 pm

cid wrote:Have you checked your event viewer?

Yes, there was nothing in there with regards to hard drive failures or anything of the like.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » April 9, 2008, 3:37 pm

I'm with Fash on this one, especially given your investigation so far, and personal experiences with people having similar issues. You ruled out (correctly in my mind), video card problem. You ruled out an overheating problem (be it video card, processor, northbridge, southbridge, etc). For RAM, I would download and run Memtest, and see if that gives an errors, however, as Fash pointed out: your computer will generally bluescreen of death, not completely freeze on a RAM error, and this would have shown up in other places. If memtest doesn't give you anything, what hardware do you have to consider still? Soundcard (i guess you could disable it, but i've never heard of a sound card causing these problems, especially when web browsing), CPU (if there was a hardware problem with it, it would show up much differently than this, especially in processor intensive applications), network card (not probable, but since these things are happening while using a web browser it's possible). I would recommend uninstalling drivers that get updated often (video card, sound card, etc), running an appropriate driver cleaner (normally found on forums about the brand of card you have), and reinstalling. However, since these things are happening when browsing the web, I doubt any of that will help, since web browsing doesn't really use hardware very extensively besides your processor (not an overheating problem) and ram (can rule this out after memtest).

My question to everyone but Fash on this thread: Why do you really think it's a hardware problem? The freezes occur when doing various tasks which don't involve much hardware besides the cpu and ram. The cpu is more than likely not full load, or even close to full load, so the only real problem of overheating is basically out of the question. Ram problems generally report different errors, but this can be easily verified with Memtest, or similar software. Why would a reseating hardware fix this...generally if a piece of hardware is not seated right, you get very different problems in windows, if the system posts at all.

You said you are playing web games or browsing the web while the freezes occur. Do any sites you frequent or web games you play use java? I could see Java completely freezing your computer in this way, and would try reinstalling that. If they don't use java, try to find what they use and reinstall that. Have you tried reinstalling firefox? Does this problem occur when browsing the web with IE or Opera or Safari? Truthfully, this error is probably going to be very difficult to find software wise, and thus Fash's recommendation of formatting is a good one because it will take LESS time to back up your files and reinstall, than it will to try and narrow down the cause (this is after you ruled out a hardware issue, which I feel was kind of ruled out at the beginning, minus a RAM issue).

Canoe · Post by **Canoe** » April 9, 2008, 4:37 pm

I am starting to agree with aardor sort of, but fash is being such a prick I want to try and prove him wrong!

In all seriousness, it isn't a "quick" fix to back up my stuff. I've been collecting files / pictures / programs on my computer for 4.5 years, and lord knows where all that crap is. It will take me days and days to find everything I don't want to loose and back it up (which in hindsight is poor organization on my end - I will fully admit). Some of this is just me being out of touch with how to do these things as simple as backing up my contacts / e-mails in outlook, finding wedding albums that have been done with 3rd party programs, figuring out where I hid all the "good" porn from the wife (lol).

To answer your some of your questions it happens mostly with programs running java to your point, so I will try that first (ogame mostly and that uses java extensively). But it has happened with both firefox and IE (and the IE was my wife just surfing some shopping site, so I have no clue if Java was involved).

On the flip side I guess I will go pick up a couple of flash drives (I don't own any), and start slowly backing stuff up and hope it doesn't die completely in the meanwhile.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » April 9, 2008, 4:40 pm

Canoe wrote:I am starting to agree with aardor sort of, but fash is being such a prick I want to try and prove him wrong!

In all seriousness, it isn't a "quick" fix to back up my stuff. I've been collecting files / pictures / programs on my computer for 4.5 years, and lord knows where all that crap is. It will take me days and days to find everything I don't want to loose and back it up (which in hindsight is poor organization on my end - I will fully admit). Some of this is just me being out of touch with how to do these things as simple as backing up my contacts / e-mails in outlook, finding wedding albums that have been done with 3rd party programs, figuring out where I hid all the "good" porn from the wife (lol).

To answer your some of your questions it happens mostly with programs running java to your point, so I will try that first (ogame mostly and that uses java extensively). But it has happened with both firefox and IE (and the IE was my wife just surfing some shopping site, so I have no clue if Java was involved).

On the flip side I guess I will go pick up a couple of flash drives (I don't own any), and start slowly backing stuff up and hope it doesn't die completely in the meanwhile.

Yeah Java is terrible. I would uninstall it, wipe it from your registry, then reinstall. I also wouldn't use any of the 1.6/6.0 versions unless you are using vista. Also turn off the automatic update option in the java control panel, otherwise you download every new version that comes out (which is like one every two weeks) and there are a lot of issues that can be caused by multiple versions of java running (at least in my experience.)

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » April 9, 2008, 4:45 pm

The good news is that it doesn't sound like it's a hardware failure, or something that could corrupt your OS, so you should have as much time to back up as needed. I guess I just take for granted the fact that I keep my computer relatively well organized (well, at this point, I use a different drive for OSes, so I wouldn't lose anything but my WoW UI if that drive crashed or the OS died) (now i'm scared and want to back up my wow directory asap =P).

Yeah, it could totally be unrelated to java, other than java causes it the freeze because it accesses some other software which doesn't necessarily have to be accessed through java. Thats really the trouble in tracing something like this.

Canoe · Post by **Canoe** » April 9, 2008, 4:48 pm

You know what's funny now that we are talking about java - I know just a week or two ago I had one of those auto update popups come up, and it's been worse ever since.

Not saying that's a definate by any stretch, but it's a start.

Btw - How do i wipe it from my registry?

Fash · Post by **Fash** » April 9, 2008, 4:52 pm

Canoe wrote:(ogame mostly and that uses java extensively)

JavaScript is not Java

Canoe wrote:I am starting to agree with aardor sort of, but fash is being such a prick I want to try and prove him wrong!

Cool... I was trying to save you some time. Heck you might even learn something in the process (Since you're being a total cludge about backing up files)

Canoe wrote:In all seriousness, it isn't a "quick" fix to back up my stuff.

Yes it is. Sit down to do it and it probably won't take long. Download a great program like WinDirStat for help in finding large collections of files and great ways of sorting and digging through what's on the drive. Odds are, if you don't know exactly where it is, you can probably survive losing it.

Canoe wrote:Some of this is just me being out of touch with how to do these things as simple as backing up my contacts / e-mails in outlook, finding wedding albums that have been done with 3rd party programs,

Outlook: File -> "Import and Export"
Wedding Albums, 3rd party programs: Easy is backing up the entire Program Files folder... The right way is to actually look through them and copy them off as you find things.

Canoe wrote:On the flip side I guess I will go pick up a couple of flash drives (I don't own any), and start slowly backing stuff up and hope it doesn't die completely in the meanwhile.

Comcast has been doing commercials about you... The Slowskis.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » April 9, 2008, 4:59 pm

Canoe wrote:You know what's funny now that we are talking about java - I know just a week or two ago I had one of those auto update popups come up, and it's been worse ever since.

Not saying that's a definate by any stretch, but it's a start.

Btw - How do i wipe it from my registry?

After you uninstall it, go to your registry (regedit from a command prompt in case you didn't know)

expand HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE

expand SOFTWARE

and delete anything that says Java or JavaSoft

That should ensure all the old crap is completely gone (Java leaves it's footprints behind for every version even after uninstall and it can still cause issues.)

Canoe · Post by **Canoe** » April 10, 2008, 7:51 am

Tried the java thing - didn't work.

Fine, i give up!

Anything I need to know for formatting (I haven't done it since oh.... 1995) besides booting from install CD and clicking "install windows" after I've removed everything that I want from the HD?

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » April 10, 2008, 9:41 am

Canoe wrote:It ran all night without freezing, but as soon as I used firefox for maybe 20 minutes it froze up again.

That makes me think failing power supply or MB components and you've (sort of) ruled out most other things.

If you've a spare HD, install Windows to it and see if the system will run stably.

Somewhat off topic, that people continue to accept the reboot, reboot reboot, reinstall method of supporting and maintaining an OS is nutty. Think of the costs involved over the course of a year due to it.

Canoe · Post by **Canoe** » April 10, 2008, 9:47 am

I'm going to try the reinstall first.

I figure, when I get a new computer, I'm going to have to move over all my crap anyway, so this will be a good exercise for me to do, and this will finally let me know whether it is a hardware issue or not.

And yes, fash, you can say I told you so if you would like

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » April 10, 2008, 10:30 am

I would honestly point to system board right off the bat on this. If it were me, I would go buy a brand new hard drive and format/install windows clean on it and then add your old drive into the machine as a secondary after it is complete and updated. You won't have to jack around with backing anything up as your old data is there and intact. I have done this on every upgrade I have done over the last 5 years as drives are cheap nowadays. If you still get the freezing on the fresh image, then replace your system board.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » April 10, 2008, 11:02 am

Aabidano wrote:
Somewhat off topic, that people continue to accept the reboot, reboot reboot, reinstall method of supporting and maintaining an OS is nutty. Think of the costs involved over the course of a year due to it.

I never reinstall.. And the only reason I normally reboot is because of updates. Other than that I have no system issues and don't really go out of my way to 'maintain' it. At least now that I went back to XP. Vista on the other hand...

Fash · Post by **Fash** » April 10, 2008, 11:07 am

Canoe wrote:And yes, fash, you can say I told you so if you would like

Boo... It's no fun if you give me permission!

Canoe · Post by **Canoe** » April 10, 2008, 12:07 pm

Ok Quick question.

I can navigate around my computer just fine, moving / deleting large files etc etc. Did it for a couple hours this morning organizing my stuff, and had no issues.

It can sit idle for days at a time (except screensaver).

But when you use IE or Firefox, or open up an e-mail which may have links to websites and pictures (such as the spam you would get from 1800Flowers or similar merchants), that's when it freezes.

That make any sense to anyone?