World Population

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Winnow
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World Population

Post by Winnow »

so, the world's population has doubled since I was born.

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The problem doesn't look so bad if the less developed countries are left to sort things out. If we keep giving them food, as Nick would like to do, take a look at the chart.

Here's an interesting article on the fight for water and oil:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... uels.water

partial quote:
The biggest new player in the game is China and it is there that the emerging pattern is clearest. China's rulers have staked everything on economic growth. Without improving living standards, there would be large-scale unrest, which could pose a threat to their power. Moreover, China is in the middle of the largest and fastest move from the countryside to the city in history, a process that cannot be stopped.

There is no alternative to continuing growth, but it comes with deadly side-effects. Overused in industry and agriculture, and under threat from the retreat of the Himalayan glaciers, water is becoming a non-renewable resource. Two-thirds of China's cities face shortages, while deserts are eating up arable land. Breakneck industrialisation is worsening this environmental breakdown, as many more power plants are being built and run on high-polluting coal that accelerates global warming. There is a vicious circle at work here and not only in China. Because ongoing growth requires massive inputs of energy and minerals, Chinese companies are scouring the world for supplies. The result is unstoppable rising demand for resources that are unalterably finite.

Although oil reserves may not have peaked in any literal sense, the days when conventional oil was cheap have gone forever. Countries are reacting by trying to secure the remaining reserves, not least those that are being opened up by climate change. Canada is building bases to counter Russian claims on the melting Arctic icecap, parts of which are also claimed by Norway, Denmark and the US. Britain is staking out claims on areas around the South Pole.

The scramble for energy is shaping many of the conflicts we can expect in the present century. The danger is not just another oil shock that impacts on industrial production, but a threat of famine. Without a drip feed of petroleum to highly mechanised farms, many of the food shelves in the supermarkets would be empty. Far from the world weaning itself off oil, it is more addicted to the stuff than ever. It is hardly surprising that powerful states are gearing up to seize their share.
Lots of babies being pumped out in the Middle East:

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Re: World Population

Post by Nick »

Sorry, fuckwit, but when did I just say we should all just feed all poor third world people any time in the last several years? You are a fucking buffoon.
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Re: World Population

Post by Winnow »

I didn't say you said it. Who's the fuckwit now!?
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Re: World Population

Post by Funkmasterr »

Population is a much bigger problem then a lot of "hot issues" that people are so into worrying about now, but there is no good solution so no one wants to talk about it.
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Re: World Population

Post by Markulas »

Does anyone know any good books/articles on the effects of population on economics? I'd like to know the effect of negative population growth on our economy.
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Re: World Population

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Funkmasterr wrote:Population is a much bigger problem then a lot of "hot issues" that people are so into worrying about now, but there is no good solution so no one wants to talk about it.
You are correct sir! There are solutions though, but they are too painful to talk about. That is why we wrestle the imaginary monsters of problems like global warming. Populations massive increase = rise in co2 emmissions. Where's my nobel prize?
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Re: World Population

Post by Spang »

If people would stop popping out kids they can't afford, we could control the population. A person should have to be able to support themselves first.
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Re: World Population

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

If we ever get back to a culture of personal responsibility and consequences to actions mindset, as opposed to todays..."please government bail me out!" and "it takes a village" bullshit.....we might be able to control a lot more than just the population.
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Re: World Population

Post by Aslanna »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:If we ever get back to a culture of personal responsibility and consequences to actions mindset, as opposed to todays..."please government bail me out!" and "it takes a village" bullshit.....we might be able to control a lot more than just the population.
How is that even relevant? According to the chart the annual population growth in the U.S. during that 5 year period was 0.97%. It seems to me our culture isnt really the one that's having the population "problem." The less developed countries seem to be where the major growth is coming from. So again... Not really seeing the relationship that you're trying to present.
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Re: World Population

Post by Funkmasterr »

Aslanna wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:If we ever get back to a culture of personal responsibility and consequences to actions mindset, as opposed to todays..."please government bail me out!" and "it takes a village" bullshit.....we might be able to control a lot more than just the population.
How is that even relevant? According to the chart the annual population growth in the U.S. during that 5 year period was 0.97%. It seems to me our culture isnt really the one that's having the population "problem." The less developed countries seem to be where the major growth is coming from. So again... Not really seeing the relationship that you're trying to present.
I think his point was very relevant and very clear. People are having children they cannot afford, however this is part of bigger problem which is; people refuse to accept responsibility for themselves and expect the government to bail them out, and the shit needs to stop.

That being said, of course population growth is a much larger issues elsewhere in the world..
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Re: World Population

Post by Sueven »

Mid wrote:If we ever get back to a culture of personal responsibility and consequences to actions mindset, as opposed to todays..."please government bail me out!" and "it takes a village" bullshit.....we might be able to control a lot more than just the population.
Then why is it that the nations who provide the most comprehensive government bailouts and safety nets (the pseudo-socialist Western European nations) have the lowest birthrates, while nations which provide the least comprehensive government bailouts and safety nets (third world nations that tend to have no functional such programs) have the highest?
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Re: World Population

Post by Aslanna »

Funkmasterr wrote:I think his point was very relevant and very clear. People are having children they cannot afford, however this is part of bigger problem which is; people refuse to accept responsibility for themselves and expect the government to bail them out, and the shit needs to stop.

That being said, of course population growth is a much larger issues elsewhere in the world..
You're missing what I was asking. See Seuven's post below yours as he said what I was trying to say but better.
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Re: World Population

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Sueven wrote:
Mid wrote:If we ever get back to a culture of personal responsibility and consequences to actions mindset, as opposed to todays..."please government bail me out!" and "it takes a village" bullshit.....we might be able to control a lot more than just the population.
Then why is it that the nations who provide the most comprehensive government bailouts and safety nets (the pseudo-socialist Western European nations) have the lowest birthrates, while nations which provide the least comprehensive government bailouts and safety nets (third world nations that tend to have no functional such programs) have the highest?
The third world nations have neither the government bailouts or a societal mindset of personal responsibility. That's why. If a culture of personal responsibility is nutured and encouraged, senseless baby making will be reduced. In many of these countries with this problem, they have little to do other than have sex. They have little responsibility and work lives. Their governments take the billions given to them every year by evil white people and shit it all away instead of building up their educations system, infrastructure and technologies. It's disgusting.
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Re: World Population

Post by Sueven »

So you must then be arguing that countries that have social safety nets far more comprehensive than our own (most of Scandinavia, for instance) also have a culture of personal responsibility far better than ours?
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Re: World Population

Post by Funkmasterr »

Aslanna wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:I think his point was very relevant and very clear. People are having children they cannot afford, however this is part of bigger problem which is; people refuse to accept responsibility for themselves and expect the government to bail them out, and the shit needs to stop.

That being said, of course population growth is a much larger issues elsewhere in the world..
You're missing what I was asking. See Seuven's post below yours as he said what I was trying to say but better.

I understood, and I think I addressed what he was saying as well.

The bigger problem here in the US is that no one wants to accept responsibility for their actions. This is made apparent if you look at frivolous lawsuits, women giving birth to and keeping children they cannot afford on their own, parents blaming video games when their kids act out, etc, etc, etc.

I personally see this as one of the U.S.' biggest issues currently. As far as the reference to statistics that sueven posted, I would also agree with midnyte on the reasoning; other countries have not learned the laziness and complete lack of responsibility that many in the U.S. have.
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Re: World Population

Post by Funkmasterr »

Sueven wrote:So you must then be arguing that countries that have social safety nets far more comprehensive than our own (most of Scandinavia, for instance) also have a culture of personal responsibility far better than ours?

I would agree with the part in bold, but I don't believe it is due to the first part of your sentence (as it seems you were implying.)
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Re: World Population

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Sueven wrote:So you must then be arguing that countries that have social safety nets far more comprehensive than our own (most of Scandinavia, for instance) also have a culture of personal responsibility far better than ours?
I'm sorry, I'm not up on Scandanavian society.
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Re: World Population

Post by Sueven »

Funk wrote:I would agree with the part in bold, but I don't believe it is due to the first part of your sentence (as it seems you were implying.)
Didn't mean to imply that, but not ruling it out, either. If nothing else, it should demonstrate that a "culture of personal responsibility" can coexist with an extensive welfare state.
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Re: World Population

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Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:The third world nations have neither the government bailouts or a societal mindset of personal responsibility. That's why. If a culture of personal responsibility is nutured and encouraged, senseless baby making will be reduced. In many of these countries with this problem, they have little to do other than have sex. They have little responsibility and work lives. Their governments take the billions given to them every year by evil white people and shit it all away instead of building up their educations system, infrastructure and technologies. It's disgusting.
I understand what you're trying to get at, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with overpopulation in third world and emerging countries. Which was the topic before you interjected your Rush-ism of the day. The US welfare state is almost completely unrelated to this particular problem.
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Re: World Population

Post by Funkmasterr »

Aabidano wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:The third world nations have neither the government bailouts or a societal mindset of personal responsibility. That's why. If a culture of personal responsibility is nutured and encouraged, senseless baby making will be reduced. In many of these countries with this problem, they have little to do other than have sex. They have little responsibility and work lives. Their governments take the billions given to them every year by evil white people and shit it all away instead of building up their educations system, infrastructure and technologies. It's disgusting.
I understand what you're trying to get at, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with overpopulation in third world and emerging countries. Which was the topic before you interjected your Rush-ism of the day. The US welfare state is almost completely unrelated to this particular problem.

Not really.. It was about population in general.
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Re: World Population

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Aabidano wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:The third world nations have neither the government bailouts or a societal mindset of personal responsibility. That's why. If a culture of personal responsibility is nutured and encouraged, senseless baby making will be reduced. In many of these countries with this problem, they have little to do other than have sex. They have little responsibility and work lives. Their governments take the billions given to them every year by evil white people and shit it all away instead of building up their educations system, infrastructure and technologies. It's disgusting.
I understand what you're trying to get at, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with overpopulation in third world and emerging countries. Which was the topic before you interjected your Rush-ism of the day. The US welfare state is almost completely unrelated to this particular problem.
I wasn't thinking just about the US, Aabi. I was thinking about the global internationalism mindset that seems to be poisoning the world.
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Re: World Population

Post by Ashur »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:I was thinking about the global internationalism mindset that seems to be poisoning the world.
wtf is a "global internationalism mindset". It sounds redundant whatever it is.
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Re: World Population

Post by Winnow »

Ashur wrote:wtf is a "global internationalism mindset". It sounds redundant whatever it is.

That phrase was coined by one of these professors:

http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/SelectT ... sp?sid=724
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Re: World Population

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Sorry Ash, I just made it up. Internationalism is something people have been pushing lately and it seems to be a global thing, not just US based. Thus, global internationalism. That's my take on that term. Not sure what that teachers take is that Winnow found.
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Re: World Population

Post by Lalanae »

BABIES EVERYWHERE!!
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Re: World Population

Post by Zaelath »

Aabidano wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:The third world nations have neither the government bailouts or a societal mindset of personal responsibility. That's why. If a culture of personal responsibility is nutured and encouraged, senseless baby making will be reduced. In many of these countries with this problem, they have little to do other than have sex. They have little responsibility and work lives. Their governments take the billions given to them every year by evil white people and shit it all away instead of building up their educations system, infrastructure and technologies. It's disgusting.
I understand what you're trying to get at, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with overpopulation in third world and emerging countries. Which was the topic before you interjected your Rush-ism of the day. The US welfare state is almost completely unrelated to this particular problem.
That's debateable. I would say it's the lack of a social welfare system in these countries that encourages people to have more children so there's more people around to look after them as they age.

I also don't think their birth rates have risen that dramatically, but I bet their infant mortality rates have dropped due to western interferrence.
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Re: World Population

Post by Aabidano »

Zaelath wrote:That's debateable. I would say it's the lack of a social welfare system in these countries that encourages people to have more children so there's more people around to look after them as they age.

I also don't think their birth rates have risen that dramatically, but I bet their infant mortality rates have dropped due to western interference.
They aren't lying around knocking out babies because they've nothing else to do. For most of them life is a grueling, hard road that your average 1st world person can't even imagine and will never see, let alone experience.

Having more children was a perfectly viable strategy, as most of them wouldn't live until adulthood. Societal factors kept many of them from reproducing as well (IIRC). We "freed" them form that horrible tribal existence kept them alive for millennia.

"Taking responsibility for your actions" makes sense if you're putting a third generation welfare case to work, or anyone else needlessly sucking on the Govt teat.

"Taking responsibility for your actions" in this instance means you die, your children die, your neighbors die, etc... until the population level is low enough that they can "be responsible" for themselves. Will you make that decision?
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Re: World Population

Post by Gzette »

Over population will take care of itself.
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Re: World Population

Post by Ashur »

WILL THEY EAT EACH OTHER?!?!
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Re: World Population

Post by Forthe »

It wasn't that long ago that developed countries had larger families. Children are cheap labour.
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Re: World Population

Post by Markulas »

Not that we're heading to a society that is pre-industrial, but I heard the carrying capacity for earth before the industrial revolution was around 1 billion. Now we're approaching 7 billion. It's going to get pretty interesting in the next coming years.
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