Florida, Michigan seek exit from Democratic penalty box

[Ashur]

STORY ON CNN

Summary

MIAMI, Florida (CNN) — Will the recount state become the re-primary state? And will voters in Michigan have their say in picking a Democratic candidate for president?

Political leaders from Florida and Michigan were busy Wednesday talking about plans to make sure that voters in their states are heard in picking a Democratic nominee.

The discussions unfolded amid a grueling, delegate-by-delegate fight between Sen. Hillary Clinton of New York and Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois.

This is an interesting conundrum (and one I think we all saw coming). We have arguments of "The people will be heard!" versus "Your state party leaders knew the rules and broke them."

Recap: Hillary carried both states, but Obama and Edwards weren't even on the ticket in Michigan because it was known the vote didn't matter, others voted in the Republican primary (as discussed earlier on VV). Does the DNC hold to what they've already announced and the rules they already agreed to (As Howard Dean, Chairman of the DNC intends), do they seat the delegates based on the bogus/gimped primaries that have already been held, or do they hold new primaries/caucuses (and who pays?)?

My own thoughts are to let things alone. The chips have already fallen according to how everyone agreed. It sucks for voters in both states to be disenfranchised (as they were by their party leadership), but deal with it. Once you fire up the Wayback Machine, anything can happen...

Thoughts?

[Fash]

I agree... They got this far and the only reason they're trying to do this is because they aren't happy with the results.

They made the rules, retarded as they may be. The people will be heard in the general election. The DNC has forsaken them in the primary.

[Sylvus]

I thought that our (Michigan's) delegates wouldn't be counted as a result of this? When they say that Hillary "carried" MI, does that mean that our delegates are counted in her totals? That's bullshit! I've never voted in a primary before, and have no affiliation to either party, but given the opportunity I wanted to vote for Obama in the Democratic primary. That's lame if Clinton gets them by default.

[Fash]

They might try and count those delegates for her... As it stands, no one got them... There were no delegates awarded by MI and FL. Hillary was the only one on the ticket, so to say she 'carried' the states is a fucking joke. To award them to her would be a criminal act.

[Fairweather Pure]

They should've pushed the issue more about 3 months ago if it was so important for the "people's voice to be heard". Fuck em. Let it stand.

[laneela]

I can't imagine that Michigan or Florida will be counted, unless they intend on having a second... um, primary. a) Candidates weren't allowed to campaign in these 2 states and b) a lot of people didn't vote because they thought their votes wouldn't be counted; so the outcome would be totally unfair.

[Ashur]

The other issue is "What about people who voted in the primary for the Republicans instead?" It's not really fair to let them vote in primaries for BOTH parties, but many were likely to have voted in the Democratic one if it actually mattered. That's one of the many reasons I'm not a fan of "Plan: Mulligan!"

EDIT: My daughter loves your dancing giraffe avatar Laneela

[Sylvus]

While I think it's kind of silly that whoever it was that made our primaries not count did what they did, I'm fine with a punishment of our delegates not going to anyone. I'm not fine with them going to Hillary strictly because her name was filed before it was ruled they wouldn't count and hers was the only name that appeared on the ballot.

If they're going to no one, that's fair enough.

[Winnow]

The other issue is "What about people who voted in the primary for the Republicans instead?" It's not really fair to let them vote in primaries for BOTH parties, but many were likely to have voted in the Democratic one if it actually mattered. That's one of the many reasons I'm not a fan of "Plan: Mulligan!"

Ha! Serves the democrats right for trying to screw up the republicans! Seems the republicans are much better at organizing these kind of shenanigans.

Seeing as Michigan's butt buddy state, Ohio, voted for Hillary, the best thing would be to keep Michigan factored out. Lots of Latinos in Florida as well for Hillary to promise sexual favors to for their votes. Best to keep Florida a non factor also.

States should be able to choose when they hold their primaries. Tough shit if that causes campaigning problems.

[Ashur]

States should be able to choose when they hold their primaries.

They can, and did!

The respective parties decided that there would be consequences, but it IS their party. I can respect that even though our two party system sucks eggs.

[Sylvus]

Seeing as Michigan's butt buddy state, Ohio

I realize you do it on purpose, but that couldn't be further from the truth. Ohio is a red state, Michigan is a blue state. Not to mention the deep-seated hatred that the two states have for each other.

[Deward]

This issue is coming up now because Obama has a good chance of getting the nomination. The question is whether the Republicans or Hillary wants the delegates to count more. Obviously Hillary wants them because she is losing. The republicans want Hillary to win too because McCain could probably beat Hillary, I seriously doubt he could beat Obama.

If it came down to Hillary or McCain, I would probably vote for McCain. I don't like Hillary at all, I definitely would not vote for her. Obama is the only sure candidate who would get my vote. If Hillary gets teh nomination then I will probably do my usual protest vote for the Libertarian candidate.