NBA Discussion Thread*

Post by **Sylvus** » January 22, 2008, 1:35 pm

Winnow wrote:Marion seems happy with it so all is good for this year's run at another title!

You spelled "a" wrong. It appears you have a superfluous "nother" on the end of it.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » January 22, 2008, 1:59 pm

That would be because he refuses to acknowledge that the Suns helped beat themselves last year. Instead, he blames the refs for calling the games correctly, and the commisioner for correctly enforcing the rules regarding players coming off of the bench after a bad foul by Horry.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » January 25, 2008, 3:39 pm

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3214243

Outdoor game? that sounds awesome! I doubt this will ever happen in the regular season, but I think it's an awesome preseason gimmick to get people to the games!

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » January 25, 2008, 4:13 pm

If I had been able to continue playing basketball up to the professional level, I would love to have the opportunity to play an outdoor game. It would go back to the actual roots of the game (for me).

my quote from the NHL Winter Classic thread. I think it is very cool

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » January 25, 2008, 5:30 pm

Thoughts on recent games I've seen:

Yao Ming is really, really tall. And Chinese people really like him. My section, which is usually not that crowded, was FULL of Chinese folks who would go nuts whenever he touched the ball. The lady who sits next to me was upset, she kept turning around and yelling "this ain't China!" at the fans around us.

That said, he's not all that impressive. Obviously he's smooth and fairly talented, and really tall. So that's definitely useful, he's already averaging 20/10, and that probably won't change until he gets old or gets injured. But he's slow, he's not explosive, and he's not dominant enough to take over a game when he's the focus of the other teams defense. He's going to need another star around him (and, apparently, one who's not Tracy McGrady) if his team is going to be a title contender. He's not able to shake a defender with quick, coordinated Hakeem-style moves, and he's not explosive enough to go past or over defenders. He's got a silky jumper, and with his height and body control he can shoot over defenders all day.

Nobody else on the Rockets impressed me (Tracy McGrady was out hurt). Rafer Alston was pretty OK. He was fun to watch.

Dirk Nowitzki was not impressive at all. In the game I saw, he finished with a 22/11, which is a pretty standard statistical game for him. He made only one nice-looking play all day, where he put a nice move on a defender, drove into the lane, and made a nice finish in traffic. Other than that, he was taking jump shots all day, and not hitting them as consistently as I would have expected. He's great at using ball fakes to get a little separation, and with his height, he only needs a little separation to get off a clear shot. When his shots are falling, I'm sure he looks far more deadly. But his shots aren't going to fall consistently throughout an entire playoff season. Dirk is another guy who I think would really struggle to carry a team through the playoffs. Your franchise guy and go-to scorer needs to be able to get the job done even on a night when he doesn't have his jump shot working, and Dirk generally cannot do that (although sometimes it seems he can... witness his epic driving layup with the foul to beat the Spurs in the playoffs two years ago).

Josh Howard was playing really well, and looked pretty fucking scary. Whenever he touched the ball, everyone in the stands would cringe. He's athletic and can do everything-- defend, shoot, drive, pass, etc.

I don't see why an outdoor game couldn't take place during the regular season. The NFL plays regular season games in London and Mexico, the NHL plays regular season games outdoors, why can't the NBA?

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » January 25, 2008, 5:41 pm

Sueven wrote: I don't see why an outdoor game couldn't take place during the regular season. The NFL plays regular season games in London and Mexico, the NHL plays regular season games outdoors, why can't the NBA?

My reason for saying that were that the courts in the NBA have very high standards in many ways, like how much the ball bounces off the floor given a certain amount of force (I learned this in basketball class in college, while i had mono). Maybe they're able to set it up outdoors easily enough, I just figured it would be hard, and thus they were doing it during the preseason.

Another thought was weather, and that it would effect basketball more than football (OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of football games are outdoor, why did London or Mexico matter?, setting up the stadium there for it) and hockey. However, I am having a hard time thinking why weather effecting basketball is any different than football or hockey, so I dunno.

Outdoor game still seem really awesome to me!

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » January 25, 2008, 5:50 pm

The radius of the basketball hoop and the basketball itself are so close that any slight breeze could probably change the statistics fairly dramatically.

At least it seems like it would be that way.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » January 25, 2008, 5:59 pm

Leonaerd wrote:The radius of the basketball hoop and the basketball itself are so close that any slight breeze could probably change the statistics fairly dramatically.

At least it seems like it would be that way.

Yeah, I was thinking of that, but I feel it's the exact same with a football, and getting it in the space between the receiver and the coverage on the receiver. Actually, a football weighs less than a basketball, and is generally being thrown greater distances, and thus would be more effected by wind. Of course, that's been a part of the game of professional football forever, whereas professional basketball has never occurred outdoors, and thus never had to deal with wind.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » January 25, 2008, 6:02 pm

Aardor wrote:
Leonaerd wrote:The radius of the basketball hoop and the basketball itself are so close that any slight breeze could probably change the statistics fairly dramatically.

At least it seems like it would be that way.
Yeah, I was thinking of that, but I feel it's the exact same with a football, and getting it in the space between the receiver and the coverage on the receiver. Actually, a football weighs less than a basketball, and is generally being thrown greater distances, and thus would be more effected by wind. Of course, that's been a part of the game of professional football forever, whereas professional basketball has never occurred outdoors, and thus never had to deal with wind.

You have to consider that every QB's pass has a certain error to it that the receiver must correct, regardless of wind. It's not like a basketball hoop can move to let the basketball in.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » January 25, 2008, 6:03 pm

The weather may affect it, but I don't think it provides either side an advantage so it is a moot point in my opinion.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » January 25, 2008, 6:04 pm

Fash wrote:The weather may affect it, but I don't think it provides either side an advantage so it is a moot point.

Sure it does. A three point shooting team would be at a severe disadvantage against a paint team.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » January 25, 2008, 6:07 pm

Aardor wrote:
Leonaerd wrote:The radius of the basketball hoop and the basketball itself are so close that any slight breeze could probably change the statistics fairly dramatically.

At least it seems like it would be that way.
Yeah, I was thinking of that, but I feel it's the exact same with a football, and getting it in the space between the receiver and the coverage on the receiver. Actually, a football weighs less than a basketball, and is generally being thrown greater distances, and thus would be more effected by wind. Of course, that's been a part of the game of professional football forever, whereas professional basketball has never occurred outdoors, and thus never had to deal with wind.

This is a perfect reason to test it out as a pre-season event rather than regular season. See how it works, and tweak it as needed. At least it is on the table.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » January 25, 2008, 6:11 pm

Boogahz wrote:
Aardor wrote:
Leonaerd wrote:The radius of the basketball hoop and the basketball itself are so close that any slight breeze could probably change the statistics fairly dramatically.

At least it seems like it would be that way.
Yeah, I was thinking of that, but I feel it's the exact same with a football, and getting it in the space between the receiver and the coverage on the receiver. Actually, a football weighs less than a basketball, and is generally being thrown greater distances, and thus would be more effected by wind. Of course, that's been a part of the game of professional football forever, whereas professional basketball has never occurred outdoors, and thus never had to deal with wind.
This is a perfect reason to test it out as a pre-season event rather than regular season. See how it works, and tweak it as needed. At least it is on the table.

The Warriors attempt 27.8 three pointers per game. The Jazz attempt 11.3. There shouldn't be an obligation made to the teams to alter their core game.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » January 25, 2008, 6:11 pm

Dor wrote:My reason for saying that were that the courts in the NBA have very high standards in many ways, like how much the ball bounces off the floor given a certain amount of force (I learned this in basketball class in college, while i had mono). Maybe they're able to set it up outdoors easily enough, I just figured it would be hard, and thus they were doing it during the preseason.

I forgot about that. Doing research in basketball class instead of playing basketball must have sucked.

You're probably right that it'd be somewhat challenging to set up the court, but I doubt it's an insurmountable obstacle. They already play basketball on top of hockey ice, so they've got practice at rolling floors in and out.

Dor wrote:Another thought was weather, and that it would effect basketball more than football (OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of football games are outdoor, why did London or Mexico matter?

Just in that they disrupt the typical reciprocal nature of sports scheduling, where everyone has the same number of games in the same conditions.

Leo wrote:Sure it does. A three point shooting team would be at a severe disadvantage against a paint team.

Probably a little bit, but I'm kind of skeptical that it makes too much of a difference. I mean, I play basketball pretty frequently, both indoors and outdoors. When I'm outdoors I have to make adjustments for playing on a shitty concrete court and for keeping the sun out of my eyes, but wind rarely bothers me unless we're talking gales. It certainly is a difference, but I don't think it's a substantial one.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » January 25, 2008, 6:18 pm

Sueven wrote:Probably a little bit, but I'm kind of skeptical that it makes too much of a difference. I mean, I play basketball pretty frequently, both indoors and outdoors. When I'm outdoors I have to make adjustments for playing on a shitty concrete court and for keeping the sun out of my eyes, but wind rarely bothers me unless we're talking gales. It certainly is a difference, but I don't think it's a substantial one.

We're recreational players, though. Pros will notice any difference. Beyond the effects of the wind, the psychological impact of trying to take wind into account probably further affects the shot. And, again, some teams shoot more than double the outside shots of others. It's uneven to the core of the game.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » January 25, 2008, 6:22 pm

I really don't see it being much of an issue. It sounded like this would take place in an area where Tennis is played. Generally, a court that seats 15k+ would probably be built in a way that the wind would not affect the game.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » January 25, 2008, 6:30 pm

Leonaerd wrote:
Fash wrote:The weather may affect it, but I don't think it provides either side an advantage so it is a moot point.
Sure it does. A three point shooting team would be at a severe disadvantage against a paint team.

And a football team who has a long passing game would be more effected by the wind that one who has a running game with short passes.

I forgot about that. Doing research in basketball class instead of playing basketball must have sucked.

Yeah it did, but at least I didn't get dunked on by that huge dude (I think he dunked on you, but it might have just been on our team).

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » January 25, 2008, 6:34 pm

And a team who has a lot of right-handed line-drive hitters is going to end up getting a lot of doubles when they play at Fenway Park. I dunno, I find it hard to conceive of this as a fundamental violation of competitive fairness. NBA players are probably better than I am at noticing how weather affects their jump shot, but they're probably also better at adjusting to it than I am.

Dor wrote:Yeah it did, but at least I didn't get dunked on by that huge dude (I think he dunked on you, but it might have just been on our team).

No, that happened to me, although I don't think I was alone. At least he didn't break my shoulder like that other massive dude who played outdoors in Lakeland.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » January 25, 2008, 6:41 pm

Haha, I miss playing with the people from the projects. IMO nothing beats the time there was a random drunk guy who joined us, and joined my team. He proceeded to yell at me to take shots whenever I had the ball, regardless of the situation. After awhile, he got upset by me not shooting quick enough, and blocked two of my shots into my face, then continued to yell at me (remember, he's on my team).

And you should not have tried to stop that 300 pound train of a man driving to the basket, even if it was a charge.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » January 25, 2008, 6:46 pm

Haha, I miss playing with the people from the projects. IMO nothing beats the time there was a random drunk guy who joined us, and joined my team. He proceeded to yell at me to take shots whenever I had the ball, regardless of the situation. After awhile, he got upset by me not shooting quick enough, and blocked two of my shots into my face, then continued to yell at me (remember, he's on my team).

Yeah, I remember that dude, he was hilarious. Remember the time that I was guarding a guy who answered his cell phone DURING the game, and proceeded to hit consecutive one-handed three pointers on me while having a conversation?

Unfortunately, Lakeland isn't a great place to go anymore. All of the 14 year olds we used to play with are 17 now, and they are much meaner and more pissed off. They threaten to kick my ass / shoot me pretty much anytime I go out there. And they'll yell at me for being white and insist that whoever I'm guarding tries to score on me every time they have the ball (because I'm white). Which is fine, but it makes the game kind of boring after awhile. They've also driven off the older crowd that used to hang out there-- it's a lot younger, more dangerous, and more drug-infested than it used to be. I usually play over by Guilford now, which is safer but less interesting and has fewer pickup players wandering around.

And you should not have tried to stop that 300 pound train of a man driving to the basket, even if it was a charge.

Good point. Especially since you can't call charges at Lakeland.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » January 25, 2008, 6:56 pm

That is unfortunate, but not surprising. And actually, now that I think about it, I don't really miss basketball at Lakeland. Most of my memories involve my going up for a rebound at some point, my shoulder dislocating, me popping it back in, and then stupidly playing through the pain.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » January 30, 2008, 12:26 am

Leonaerd wrote: It's not like a basketball hoop can move to let the basketball in.

Lets not forget that the NBA installed moving hoops that adjusted to opposing players' shots in the playoffs the last 5 years as part of the conspiracy to keep the Suns from winning a championship.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 30, 2008, 1:13 am

The Suns held the Hawks to 33 points the first half tonight! Big D! 8 blocks in the first quarter.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » February 1, 2008, 8:39 pm

Lakers trade for Gasol

By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports
February 1, 2008

The Los Angeles Lakers have acquired Memphis center Pau Gasol, league sources said Friday afternoon.

The Lakers will send center Kwame Brown and rookie point guard Javaris Crittenton to Memphis in the trade, along with two future No. 1 picks.

It is possible the Lakers will re-sign free agent Aaron McKie to send to Memphis to balance the contracts in the deal.

Gasol, a 7-footer, can play center for the Lakers until Andrew Bynum returns from a knee injury sometime in March. Then, Gasol, who is averaging 18.9 points and 8.8 rebounds, can slide over into the power forward spot. His passing and shooting skills are ideal to operate in the triangle offense. This move pushes the Lakers into championship contention.

For Memphis, Brown’s $9 million contract comes off the salary cap at the end of the season. Gasol has three years left and nearly $50 million left on his contract. He is averaging nearly 19 points and 8.8 rebounds for the Grizzlies.

The Memphis Commercial Appeal also reported the story Friday in its online edition.

I like this trade for a lot for the Lakers, depth at the Center or a very athletic 1 -2 punch against the Spurs or Suns.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 1, 2008, 8:53 pm

Word is Bynum's most likely out for the season so while this is a good pickup, the twin tower thing will have to wait until next year.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » February 2, 2008, 3:45 am

Where have you received this "word?" I have heard no such thing. Last I heard, he was out 8 weeks or something like that.

Obviously a great trade for the Lakers. Fisher/Bryant/Odom/Gasol/Bynum, with a bench of Farmar/Walton/Turiaf is a title contender. Who knows how they'll blend, but possibly way up there. With the Spurs, Suns and Mavericks all looking weaker than usual, and the Hornets, Nuggets and Blazers still unproven, the Lakers have a real opportunity.

Winnow: Want to make a Suns avatar bet? You take the Suns for the championship, I take the field, if I win, you have to wear the sports-related avatar of my choice for a month, if you win, I have to wear the sports-related avatar of your choice for six.

Comments on recent Wizards games:

Toronto: Badass game! Was a whole lot of fun because it was very competitive.

One of the coolest shots I've ever seen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQXaULLaQSE

Impressive: Calderon and Bosh (although Bosh is a big-scoring interior player, not an all-around interior player like Duncan)

Not impressive: Bargnani

Utah: Not as badass, easy Utah win.

Impressive: Deron Williams. He played a shitty game and his talent was still evident. I'd want him on my team for the next decade. Also Ronnie Brewer.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » February 6, 2008, 4:21 am

Winnow,

What is the word in Phoenix on this?

No longer confident they can win a championship with their current roster, the Phoenix Suns are close to completing a blockbuster trade that will bring them Shaquille O'Neal, a source with knowledge of the negotiations said Tuesday.

O'Neal is scheduled to travel to Phoenix aboard a private plane Wednesday, the source said, to undergo an MRI on his ailing left hip. If he passes the physical, the Suns will complete the trade by sending Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks to the Miami Heat.

The Miami Herald first reported the Suns and Heat were in serious trade discussions involving O'Neal.

Frustrated by Miami's dramatic dropoff this season – the Heat own the NBA's worst record at 9-37 – O'Neal had begun telling teammates he wanted to be traded but never thought a deal would come to fruition, a Heat source said.

The trade represents a dramatic change for the Suns, whose run-and-gun, small-ball style had revolutionized the league in recent seasons. That same style, however, had failed to bring the Suns a championship, and team officials had become increasingly skeptical about their chances of contending without giving Amare Stoudemire some help on the front line.

While praising recent improvement in Stoudemire's defense last week, Suns general manager Steve Kerr said the team still was doing Stoudemire a "disservice" by playing him at center instead of his more natural power forward position.

While last week's loss to a San Antonio team that was missing Tony Parker again raised some doubts, it was the Lakers' acquisition of Memphis forward Pau Gasol on Friday that ultimately spurred the Suns to consider aggressively looking for another big man. League sources said the Suns also had conversations about Charlotte's Emeka Okafor and Philadelphia's Samuel Dalembert in recent days.

O'Neal, 35, still is a physical presence but seems a poor fit for Mike D'Antoni's up-tempo offense. Suns coaches, however, watched film of O'Neal on Tuesday, the source said, and came away thinking O'Neal's strong passing skills from the high post would work well in their half-court schemes. The Suns also have shown increasingly more confidence in playing forward Boris Diaw next to Stoudemire and think that combination will suffice when O'Neal isn't on the floor.

Not sure I understand this trade at all. Seems an awful fit like the article says. They could get much more for Marion.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 6, 2008, 12:26 pm

Tyek wrote:Winnow,

What is the word in Phoenix on this?

No longer confident they can win a championship with their current roster, the Phoenix Suns are close to completing a blockbuster trade that will bring them Shaquille O'Neal, a source with knowledge of the negotiations said Tuesday.
Not sure I understand this trade at all. Seems an awful fit like the article says. They could get much more for Marion.

I've said Shaq was washed up for the last few years. On the surface I don't like the trade. I can only hope that Shaq wants to bitch slap Kobe's chances one more time and is motivated to play. I guess he went through a divorce recently and has been pretty lackluster on the court even though a local reporter said Shaq is in the best shape of his life.

There's a big concern over a hip problem shaq has.

As for Marion leaving, that leaves lots of defensive matchup questions. If Shaq has anything left in the tank, it should be fun to watch a Shaq/Amare/Hill (or Diaw) front line with Nash/Bell/Barbosa trading off in the backcourt.

Too much is riding on Shaq's health at this point to judge yet. He's slow as molasses so we'll be seeing some changes in the style of play when he's on the court. I think, if he passes his physical, he'll play maybe 30 minutes a game, giving him lots of rest with Diaw and Skinner subbing.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 6, 2008, 4:23 pm

oh man, this is funny.

Shaq's Suns outfit already on sale:

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/262/shaqphxvc9.png

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » February 6, 2008, 4:50 pm

That image is hilarious.

I hope Diaw plays better since he should get more minutes, but who knows. I still don't understand this trade, besides that both Nash and Shaq are 34, and the thought might be "we need a championship in the next 2 years."

Actually, Nash turns 34 tomorrow, so Happy Birthday Steve Nash!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 11, 2008, 8:56 pm

Shaq's first practice:

Here is some of what O'Neal said after practice:

• On his first practice: "A lot of running. This is something very different for me. I'll just have to get in tune to what everybody is doing. When you talk about being a great team, everybody has to be on the same page. I don't want to be the one who slows us up, even half a millisecond."

• On the Suns' system: "This system involves a lot of movement. The other one was just standing - pound, pound, pound. I think it's going to be good for me playing the open game with the greatest point guard and one of the greatest power forwards to play the game."

• On his conditioning: "It was terrible. I haven't done anything in a month. But I'm in pretty good shape so it'll probably take me a few more days to get into 'em. The good thing about these guys here is they tell me when I'm comfortable, when I'm at 100 percent, I can join them. But I'm going to be out here working hard every day, working out two times a day at 24 Hour Fitness, just try to get out there with my new teammates."

• On his injured hip: "I felt a little bit. We're going to go in there and do some treatment. It's feeling better than it did before. I'm really comfortable with alternative-style treatments that we're doing."

• On when might play: "I don't want to say. I want to get my wind to at least 75-80 percent and I want to be in tune to the offense so I'm going to be going over the offense every day. I'm going to be watching films. I'm not going to rush anything. This is already a fine-tuned machine. Any little negative kink could throw it off. I don't want to be the negative kink. So I want to step in like I've been with this team the last three years. I have to make sure everything's right."

• On the practice: "It was different. It was very intense. I learned a lot. I had fun. Now, I can see why they can go at the pace they play at. When you just do short bursts like this, then you can save it all for the games. I look to have a lot of energy for the people here in Phoenix who are expecting a lot out of me. I expect them to continue to be loud and get a little more louder. It's going to be a fun journey for all of us."

One quote left out is when they asked Shaq what he thought about Mark Cuban's comments and he said, how can you take anyone serious who combs his hair with a piece of bologna

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » February 11, 2008, 10:31 pm

Is this the wrong time to mention that the Celtics are 16-0 against the West and beat the Spurs last night without Garnett?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 11, 2008, 10:55 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:Is this the wrong time to mention that the Celtics are 16-0 against the West and beat the Spurs last night without Garnett?

This is the Suns upcoming schedule.

Wed, Feb. 13 @ Warriors
Thu, Feb. 14 MAVERICKS
Wed, Feb. 20 LAKERS
Fri, Feb. 22 CELTICS
Sun, Feb. 24 PISTONS

The Suns have to deal with a real schedule in the West but have pretty much bitchslapped the East. Celtics haven't played the Suns yet. There will be a reckoning Feb 22nd!

The Celtics can gear up for West Coast teams because the east is so bad. (Are there more than two teams with winning records? ...probably , but I'd have to look at the standings)

Amare's numbers since the trade: (with Marion and Shaq out of the line up)

31 pts, 13 rbs, 4 blks, 2 asts (6-7 FT) Win
33 pts, 10 rbs, 1 blk (15-15 FT) Win
26pts, 20rbs 4 blks, 3 asts (10-10 FT) Loss in 2-OT

Amare's averaging 2.3 blocks per game this year (career 1.5)

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » February 11, 2008, 11:16 pm

Even the worst team in the East has won more NBA Championships than Phoenix...2 wins are not enough

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 12, 2008, 12:58 am

Boogahz wrote:Even the worst team in the East has won more NBA Championships than Phoenix...2 wins are not enough

Yeah, but their fans watch Suns games because they're actually entertaining.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » February 12, 2008, 1:01 am

Winnow wrote:
Boogahz wrote:Even the worst team in the East has won more NBA Championships than Phoenix...2 wins are not enough
Yeah, but their fans watch Suns games because they're actually entertaining.

The old "my team doesn't play defense so I say the games are more entertaining" argument.

Pistons > Suns. Care to make an avatar bet on the upcoming game, Winnow?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 12, 2008, 1:30 am

Leonaerd wrote:
Pistons > Suns. Care to make an avatar bet on the upcoming game, Winnow?

You like having a Nash avatar eh? OK, one week avatar bet for the week following the results of the Suns/Pistons game Feb 24th.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » February 12, 2008, 4:10 pm

Whenever you decide to accept your loss, here you go:

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 12, 2008, 4:20 pm

Looks like he's got a woody humping the trophy in that pic.

Your avatar will be:

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 13, 2008, 6:41 pm

I knew Mark Cuban wouldn't be able to leave things alone after the Lakers and Suns made trades!

This locks up another championship for the Suns!

The proposed deal, which was first reported by ESPN.com, would send Kidd and Malik Allen to Dallas for Devin Harris, Jerry Stackhouse, DeSagana Diop, Devean George, Maurice Ager and two future first-round draft picks. The Nets also would receive $3 millon.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » February 13, 2008, 7:11 pm

That... just seems like a terrible deal to me. Even if they get Stackhouse back. Giving up Harris is too much on its own... giving up Harris, Stackhouse, and Diop-- all regular rotation players who are all above-average given their spot in the rotation-- is ridiculous.

Jason Kidd + Dirk Nowitzki + Josh Howard + Terry. That's a championship nucleus? Could be, I guess. But now that all these teams in the West are retooling, is that better than:

Bryant + Odom + Gasol + Bynum
Nash + Stoudemire + Shaq + Hill
Duncan + Ginobilli + Parker
or even
Williams + Boozer + Kirilenko + Okur
Iverson + Anthony + Camby

I dunno... I think this hurts big long-term and I'm not sure it helps at all short-term either.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » February 13, 2008, 7:32 pm

yeah, the trade doesn't make much sense to me either, unless they are hoping to "make up for it" with draft picks and have a better team built up next year.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 13, 2008, 7:55 pm

Sueven wrote:That... just seems like a terrible deal to me. Even if they get Stackhouse back. Giving up Harris is too much on its own... giving up Harris, Stackhouse, and Diop-- all regular rotation players who are all above-average given their spot in the rotation-- is ridiculous.

Jason Kidd + Dirk Nowitzki + Josh Howard + Terry. That's a championship nucleus? Could be, I guess. But now that all these teams in the West are retooling, is that better than:

Bryant + Odom + Gasol + Bynum
Nash + Stoudemire + Shaq + Hill
Duncan + Ginobilli + Parker
or even
Williams + Boozer + Kirilenko + Okur
Iverson + Anthony + Camby

I dunno... I think this hurts big long-term and I'm not sure it helps at all short-term either.

I agree. I'm happy to see Harris, George, Diop and Stackhouse go. Mavs were good because they had a deep bench.

The Suns have an open roster spot right now due to the two for one trade for Shaq but I doubt they'll pick up a quality player that will get minutes.

Suns have Diaw, Barbosa, Bell that all rotate in and out. Skinner is even decent as a Shaw replacement so Amare doesn't have to move over to Center when he's out.

Nash/Strawberry (Strawberry's good on defense and has shown signs of life recently with more playing time)
Bell/Barbosa
Hill/Diaw
Amare/Diaw
Shaq/Diaw/Skinner

Lacking a quality backup for Nash is sort of made up by having Diaw and Hill play point forward as they are good playmakers.

The Suns have an extremely strong starting five with two could be starters off the bench in Diaw and Barbosa. The versatility of Diaw being able to play SF/PF/C makes the Suns' short rotation workable now that Marion is gone.

Rookie Alando Tucker (PF) out of Wisconsin has been a no show in D'Antoni's system so far although he tears it up in the little leagues!

I like the look of the Suns but they can't afford any injuries with their top seven players or they're done in the playoffs.

Boogahz wrote:yeah, the trade doesn't make much sense to me either, unless they are hoping to "make up for it" with draft picks and have a better team built up next year.

Dallas is giving up two first round draft picks as well so they're sacrificing their future.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 21, 2008, 3:16 am

Amare's stats tonight:

37 pts
15 rbs
3 blks

Oh yeah, Shaq makes a difference! Amare had a great game.

For being out over a month and playing his first game on a new team, Shaq did ok:

15 pts
9 rbs
3 assists
2 blks

I was a little concerned at first when Shaq fell on his ass in the 1st quarter but he picked it up in the 2nd half.

Inc! Championship!

The Lakers could barely beat the Suns on Shaq's first night at way below his full abilities. Given time to adjust to the new team, the Lakers will fall to the Suns yet again in the playoffs!

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » February 21, 2008, 5:18 pm

Huh? The Lakers beat the Sans-defense without Bynum even in the lineup. Just wait until he comes back before you start claiming a repeat title.

**note for the clueless...the above repeat comment was made purely in jest

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 21, 2008, 5:53 pm

That's a nasty dunking C/F combo!

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » February 21, 2008, 6:27 pm

Winnow wrote:That's a nasty dunking C/F combo!

LA Lakers 130
Phoenix 124
that's a Suns loss

Too bad they couldn't dunk 4 more times!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 23, 2008, 3:27 am

lol @ best team in East scoring 30 points the first half against Phoenix.

It was a big time physical game and the Suns came out on top and had double digit leads for most of the game. It's obvious the Suns aren't going to be pushed around anymore. The last two games they've had a much different look.

Boston's not looking so hot and they've dropped three straight now.

Amare had an off game with 28pts, 6 rb, 3 blks (vs Garnett) yet the Suns still pulled it out. Shaq grabbed 14 rbs. Phoenix had to play the game without Barbosa as well with the early eye injury. Grant Hill was amazing with 14 pts, 13 rbs, 3 steals and Diaw played aggressive.

Man, and the Celtics just barely broke 30 at the buzzer before half. 28 would have looked better in the box score. Lucky bastards.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 23, 2008, 2:33 pm

The Celtics never led while falling to 0-3 on their five-game trip through the West after going 16-0 against the Western Conference. Phoenix improved to 22-2 against the East.

"This West is no joke," Boston's Kevin Garnett said. "I said it before the trip that it's going to be a test, and that's what it's become."

The Suns got their first victory with Shaquille O'Neal in the lineup. They lost 130-124 to the Los Angeles Lakers in O'Neal's Phoenix debut on Wednesday night.

Afterward, before anyone asked a question, O'Neal praised Stoudemire.

"Amare Stoudemire is the best big man in the game right now -- period, bar none," O'Neal said. "I didn't know he was that good. But talking to him and watching him play, he's the best big man in the game at 25, and I mean that. I'm not just saying that to pump him up."

Stoudemire did most of his damage with Kevin Garnett guarding him.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » February 24, 2008, 2:05 am

Where is the picture of Garnett posterizing Amare?