Bush considering $800 tax rebate to boost economy

[Fash]

President George W. Bush's administration is considering an individual tax rebate of up to 800 dollars as a short term measure to help boost the sagging US economy, a media report said Friday.

The Republican leader was to unveil a fiscal stimulus plan later Friday, amid grim economic news that has united lawmakers and the Federal Reserve chief on the need to revive flagging US growth.

The White House has said Bush would propose policies, not dollar amounts, because details of the plan must be hammered out with the Democratic-controlled Congress.

"Privately, the White House has discussed its support for a tax rebate of as much as 800 dollars for individual taxpayers, more than double the 300 dollar rebate featured in a 2001 effort to spur economic growth," the Wall Street Journal said.

In a key concession to Democrats, the US administration appeared willing to accept stimulus legislation that does not include an extension of Bush's tax cuts, the Journal said.

Congressional Democrats, meanwhile, are suggesting they would be willing to suspend their own budget rules and accept a tax break without first figuring out how to pay for it, the Journal said.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Congress would have an economy-boosting package ready by January 28, when Bush delivers his annual agenda-shaping State of the Union speech.

The two sides have been jolted into a bipartisan mood by the latest round of weak economic news and a downward spiral on Wall Street that prompted Fed chairman Ben Bernanke and others to talk up the need for swift action.

Bush and US Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson held a conference call Thursday with top lawmakers from both parties to discuss the issue, a spokesman said.

"Tomorrow, he'll call for effective, temporary, growth measures and will lay out his principles for what an effective approach should be," said spokesman Tony Fratto.

In remarks expected around noon (1700 GMT), the US president will "let the American people know that he does believe that short-term temporary measures are needed to help the economy through this period," said the spokesman.

Wasn't the $300 rebate met with a lot of argument and cynicism? Will it be better received now because he can't run for re-election?

[Animalor]

An irresponsible spending plans when you have the biggest deficit ever and quick approval by both parties on an election year. Who would've thought...

[Boogahz]

Congressional Democrats, meanwhile, are suggesting they would be willing to suspend their own budget rules and accept a tax break without first figuring out how to pay for it, the Journal said.

That part is scary to me, especially if the number I was hearing on the way to work was correct at 100 Billion dollars total.

[Fairweather Pure]

Yeah, they gave you that 300$ one year, then took it back the next year's in taxes. Pretty fucking stupid IMO.

[Winnow]

This isn't going to help in the long run. Morons letting the housing market spin out of control have doomed us.

I don't know how many times I told someone over the last decade that homes doubling in value over the course of a few years does not compute. Greedy bastards. It's not "because the market demanded it". It's because of the stupidly easy to get loans that were being handed out. It's no surprise people are defaulting left and right now. Major fuckup that's going to screw us until the end of time...which isn't too far off anyway I guess.

An 800.00 tax refund isn't going to do anything. Everyone buying an Xbox 360, Rock Band and some booze will do nothing.

[Leonaerd]

Yeah, they gave you that 300$ one year, then took it back the next year's in taxes. Pretty fucking stupid IMO.

I think that's the idea. In the end, no money is exchanged, but at least there's $800 of potential economic growth between A and B on the timeline.

[Fairweather Pure]

I think that's the idea. In the end, no money is exchanged, but at least there's $800 of potential economic growth between A and B on the timeline.

But money is exchanged. When a person goes out and spends thier $800, they'll pay taxes on everything they buy. Then they'll be giving Uncle Sam back the $800 the following year. FYI, previously when I got my extra $300, I paid bills.

[Drolgin Steingrinder]

And most people did, Fairweather. The rebate will do fuck all good if people use it to pay off their credit cards etc., in fact it'll just put a bigger hole in the budget.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

I'm confused by this negativity. The Dems are all about cutting taxes for the low to middle class. Many on this board are Dems. Why the angst? Are you all closet fiscal conservatives?

[Aslanna]

For startes maybe we understand this wont have any affect on the economy. Other than to add to the government deficit.

Big picture Mid.. Open your eyes.

[Fairweather Pure]

I'm confused by this negativity. The Dems are all about cutting taxes for the low to middle class. Many on this board are Dems. Why the angst? Are you all closet fiscal conservatives?

I'm confused how you are confusing this with a tax cut. Night and fucking day dude. They are no where near the same thing in any way, shape, or form. There is no conceivable way how any normal, 5th grade educated human could confuse the two.

[Canelek]

Unless there is a "kicker" (like what they do in Oregon from time to time)refund due to a surplus in tax money, I really do not see the point in this.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

For startes maybe we understand this wont have any affect on the economy. Other than to add to the government deficit.

Big picture Mid.. Open your eyes.

LOL. It wouldn't? 300 million times $800 = 2.4 billion back into peoples hand to spend and put back into the economy. That IS the big picture sweetie.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

I'm confused by this negativity. The Dems are all about cutting taxes for the low to middle class. Many on this board are Dems. Why the angst? Are you all closet fiscal conservatives?

I'm confused how you are confusing this with a tax cut. Night and fucking day dude. They are no where near the same thing in any way, shape, or form. There is no conceivable way how any normal, 5th grade educated human could confuse the two.

No? Poverty is a family making $20k a year? I'm not sure. But let's say it is. Roughly $5k a year would be taken out in taxes, SS, etc. Getting back 15% or so of that back doesn't serve the same purpose a tax cut would?

It boggles my mind that someone with a 5th grade education couldn't look beyond the terms of cut and rebate and see they lead to the same destination. Have a nice day.

[Fairweather Pure]

No? Poverty is a family making $20k a year? I'm not sure. But let's say it is. Roughly $5k a year would be taken out in taxes, SS, etc. Getting back 15% or so of that back doesn't serve the same purpose a tax cut would?

Not even close to the same thing. Do I really have to spell it out for you? "Serve the same purpose"? Do you even know/understand what a fucking tax cut is?!?

Jesus, thanks for the follow-up post to drive home the fact you have no fucking clue. None. There really is no point in "debating" the issue with anyone that knows so little about the subject.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

No? Poverty is a family making $20k a year? I'm not sure. But let's say it is. Roughly $5k a year would be taken out in taxes, SS, etc. Getting back 15% or so of that back doesn't serve the same purpose a tax cut would?

Not even close to the same thing. Do I really have to spell it out for you? "Serve the same purpose"? Do you even know/understand what a fucking tax cut is?!?

Jesus, thanks for the follow-up post to drive home the fact you have no fucking clue. None. There really is no point in "debating" the issue with anyone that knows so little about the subject.

uh-huh. So you don't know how to explain yourself. Or you, in fact, are the one who doesn't get it. A tax cut, takes less money from one's income, yes? A rebate gives them money back taken from taxes. Yeah, the difference is astounding. haha

[Funkmasterr]

I don't see how this wouldn't help the economy out, maybe not immediately but I fail to see how it wouldn't at some point. If you give this money to people, I fail to believe EVERYONE, or even the majority would use the money to pay bills as opposed to buying something they don't need that they would pay taxes on.. This would both help businesses gain more, and the government would be getting to tax that money that they basically borrowed you. Then next year you give them that money right back. Could make for a shitty year for taxes next year for people who don't have much they can do for deductions, but thats a different issue.

I don't agree with mid that it's the same as a tax cut (basically because this is just a short term loan, and a tax cut is a long term thing), but I do believe it would help.. And it seems like most everyone that will be voting on it agrees, and I would have to imagine they have a better grasp of the effect it will have than anyone here..

[Fash]

I know plenty of people who could use the extra $800 and whom it will help out, short-term. I'm one of them. I don't think that's really the issue, nor is this a tax cut or a substitute for one.

However, since we're spending 800 million billion dollars a day in Iraq, where's it going to come from?
Why, since they've been beating bush over the head daily, are the democrats willing to suspend their rules and just pass it without trying to pay for it?

They say it would be unfair and irresponsible if bush were to 'tie the hands' of the incoming president... so now they're going to help do the same?

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

I don't agree with mid that it's the same as a tax cut (basically because this is just a short term loan, and a tax cut is a long term thing), but I do believe it would help.. And it seems like most everyone that will be voting on it agrees, and I would have to imagine they have a better grasp of the effect it will have than anyone here..

Not the same thing. The end result is the same. Was it said somewhere this would be the only rebate ever given again? No. When a tax cut gets implemented is there a clause that says a tax hike will never happen again? No. You guys really need to put your logical thinking hats on for a minute and stop with the snap-to-judgement shit. Your thinking is so damn narrow and shallow.

[Fairweather Pure]

uh-huh. So you don't know how to explain yourself. Or you, in fact, are the one who doesn't get it. A tax cut, takes less money from one's income, yes? A rebate gives them money back taken from taxes. Yeah, the difference is astounding. haha

So, you believe that lending the tax payer $800 that they've already paid into the system (that they will have to pay even more taxes on) is the same thing as reducing taxation for the middle class? The difference is astounding and so is your lack of understanding that fact.

[Aslanna]

LOL. It wouldn't? 300 million times $800 = 2.4 billion back into peoples hand to spend and put back into the economy. That IS the big picture sweetie.

Whatever you say Sparky. I'd say your should spend your $800 on rose colored glasses but it's obvious you already own a few pair.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

LOL. It wouldn't? 300 million times $800 = 2.4 billion back into peoples hand to spend and put back into the economy. That IS the big picture sweetie.

Whatever you say Sparky. I'd say your should spend your $800 on rose colored glasses but it's obvious you already own a few pair.

Exactly the response I anticipated. You have nothing. Safe travels.

[Funkmasterr]

I don't agree with mid that it's the same as a tax cut (basically because this is just a short term loan, and a tax cut is a long term thing), but I do believe it would help.. And it seems like most everyone that will be voting on it agrees, and I would have to imagine they have a better grasp of the effect it will have than anyone here..

Not the same thing. The end result is the same. Was it said somewhere this would be the only rebate ever given again? No. When a tax cut gets implemented is there a clause that says a tax hike will never happen again? No. You guys really need to put your logical thinking hats on for a minute and stop with the snap-to-judgement shit. Your thinking is so damn narrow and shallow.

I'm not bashing you dude! I'm just saying I disagree to partially. I've never agreed with the majority of the people here, why would I start now,

[Aslanna]

LOL. It wouldn't? 300 million times $800 = 2.4 billion back into peoples hand to spend and put back into the economy. That IS the big picture sweetie.

Whatever you say Sparky. I'd say your should spend your $800 on rose colored glasses but it's obvious you already own a few pair.

Exactly the response I anticipated. You have nothing. Safe travels.

Not true. I have the knowledge to know better than to try intelligently debating any point with a moron such as yourself. If only others were as similarly enlightened. Cheers!

[Fairweather Pure]

Not true. I have the knowledge to know better than to try intelligently debating any point with a moron such as yourself. If only others were as similarly enlightened. Cheers!

I'm learning.

[Leonaerd]

I'll probably spend my money on food, gas, and a few books I've been wanting to read. Since the hope of the rebate is that people spend the money, those with a good financial plan should probably play their part... I am and I'm a broke college student.

I see this as a good thing.

Not true. I have the knowledge to know better than to try intelligently debating any point with a moron such as yourself. If only others were as similarly enlightened. Cheers!

Try me if not Midnyte. If $2,400,000,000 is put back into the economy, is it that bad that we're paying extra taxes when in the end good should come from this? This plan has the chance to rejuvinate the economy, or at least get it rolling.

[Leonaerd]

Ouch.

As you can see from the stock market's response, the plan suffers from being too little, too late. After years of turning a blind eye to economic imbalances that have thrown thousands of people out of their homes and jobs, Bush now offers the economic equivalent of a Band-Aid. But he's not alone. Members of Congress, presidential candidates and Fed governors have all made promises in the past two weeks to turn the federal piggy bank upside down to ward off the ill effects of a recession.

With so many offering so much, so fast, with so little examination of the real costs, you just know this has to be a bad idea and rife with waste. Yet there's no stopping politicians backed into a corner with their jobs and reputations at stake. More than $200 billion could fall from the skies before the year is done -- a windfall meant to pad the holes in wallets eroded by rising mortgage and gasoline costs, falling home values and lost jobs.

It seems politicians' big idea is that since they couldn't protect us from predatory lenders, outsourcing manufacturers, the crashing dollar and energy speculators, they can at least numb the pain by mailing us $20 bills to rub on our wounds.

Source

[Fairweather Pure]

I'll probably spend my money on food, gas, and a few books I've been wanting to read. Since the hope of the rebate is that people spend the money, those with a good financial plan should probably play their part... I am and I'm a broke college student.

I see this as a good thing.

Not true. I have the knowledge to know better than to try intelligently debating any point with a moron such as yourself. If only others were as similarly enlightened. Cheers!

Try me if not Midnyte. If $2,400,000,000 is put back into the economy, is it that bad that we're paying extra taxes when in the end good should come from this? This plan has the chance to rejuvinate the economy, or at least get it rolling.

Despite both common sense and definitions, Mid's heart felt belief is that a rebate is the same as a tax reduction. The frustration comes from any sort of comparison between the two.

The rebate itself is a temporary fix at best IMO. $800 more now and $800 less off next year's taxes? Redundancy defined.

[Noysyrump]

The "economy" is a completely arbitrary thing. It is everyones concept of how good things are. A recession happens because, people decide they need to save money and not spend it. Spending money keeps the wheels turning, if 5% of the population decide to stop spending then the economy dips 5%! So when everyone starts screeming "OMGOSH its a reccesion" people who believe will sell stocks (making them drop) and stop spending money on "non essentials" thus actually causeing a recession. You can thank your democratic candidates for this current economic drop.

The only way we could have a REAL recession/depression would be from a seriouse resource shortage (food during the 'dustbowl' or possibly oil now like in the 70s)

[Aslanna]

You can thank your democratic candidates for this current economic drop.

OK I'm intrigued. Please elaborate.

[*~*stragi*~*]

Congressional Democrats, meanwhile, are suggesting they would be willing to suspend their own budget rules and accept a tax break without first figuring out how to pay for it, the Journal said.

That part is scary to me, especially if the number I was hearing on the way to work was correct at 100 Billion dollars total.

140
ps why do the democrats want to give my 800 dollars to people who dont pay taxes

[*~*stragi*~*]

This isn't going to help in the long run. Morons letting the housing market spin out of control have doomed us.

I don't know how many times I told someone over the last decade that homes doubling in value over the course of a few years does not compute. Greedy bastards. It's not "because the market demanded it". It's because of the stupidly easy to get loans that were being handed out. It's no surprise people are defaulting left and right now. Major fuckup that's going to screw us until the end of time...which isn't too far off anyway I guess.

An 800.00 tax refund isn't going to do anything. Everyone buying an Xbox 360, Rock Band and some booze will do nothing.

daddy needs a new hdtv

[Winnow]

Sounds like Bill Gates could get our economy back on track if he just split up his fortune between all Americans.


Come on Bill!

[Boogahz]

Congressional Democrats, meanwhile, are suggesting they would be willing to suspend their own budget rules and accept a tax break without first figuring out how to pay for it, the Journal said.

That part is scary to me, especially if the number I was hearing on the way to work was correct at 100 Billion dollars total.

140
ps why do the democrats want to give my 800 dollars to people who dont pay taxes

Yeah, I heard the numbers again over lunch, and I think they were saying tha the original plan which Congress was discussing would have been $500.00 and Bush then announced the $800.00 which changed the totals some.

[Noysyrump]

You can thank your democratic candidates for this current economic drop.

OK I'm intrigued. Please elaborate.

Ive heard constant remarks from (mainly) hillary and obama about how bad the economy is (even though it wasnt) and how OMG we need to elect them to fix it... Now that they have been repeating those remarks for the passed weeks, it is now happening because some people are believing it (dow jones drop etcetera).

If someone keeps blabbering in your ear about recession... are you going to invest your money in stocks that can drop their worth? Its an election tactic that proves they care NOTHING about the people of the US, only their own damn selves (and getting elected at any cost).

This is all however, completely off topic.

The topic... well BUSH is of course BRIBING the people of the US with a "free" $800 just like he did when he originally got elected with that $300... "See we republicans will give you free money! Vote for us!"

Its all bullshit... man I miss Reagan.

[Siji]

Riiiight.

Nevermind the republicans that have put us into the largest deficit in history over the last 7.5 yrs. That's not nearly as effective at hurting the economy as people 'talking' about it.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Riiiight.

Nevermind the republicans that have put us into the largest deficit in history over the last 7.5 yrs. That's not nearly as effective at hurting the economy as people 'talking' about it.

Perception is reality.

[Tangurena]

I'm confused by this negativity. The Dems are all about cutting taxes for the low to middle class. Many on this board are Dems. Why the angst? Are you all closet fiscal conservatives?

While the income cap for the $800 (filing single) check is $85k and the income cap for the $1600 check (for filing joint) is $115k, the "stimulus package" also makes permanent a number of tax breaks for the upper 25% of individuals and makes some corporate tax cuts permanent. The cost of the checks and tax cuts to individuals runs about $100Billion. The cost of the corporate tax cuts is about $50Billion for the first decade.

Congressional Democrats, meanwhile, are suggesting they would be willing to suspend their own budget rules and accept a tax break without first figuring out how to pay for it, the Journal said.

That part is scary to me, especially if the number I was hearing on the way to work was correct at 100 Billion dollars total.

140
ps why do the democrats want to give my 800 dollars to people who dont pay taxes

See above. This is bush's plan, but somehow you want to blame it on the democrats.

The motto of this "package" should be no bubble left behind!

[Tyek]

So over 115K and no money? I have not been paying enough attention.

They should take cost of living into consideration. California is a freaking expensive state and you need a six figure income to live comfortably. I know the Midwest guys that work for my company have multiple houses, while we have one 1800 square foot house with a pool and it costs me what their 2 or 3 houses cost.

And Midnyte, I am neither liberal nor conservative and do like like to be labeled as such. I believe in some things that would be labeled one or the other, but my overall view depends strictly on the issue. I would be surprised if anyone follows a straight liberal or conservative thought process.

[Boogahz]

I'm confused by this negativity. The Dems are all about cutting taxes for the low to middle class. Many on this board are Dems. Why the angst? Are you all closet fiscal conservatives?

While the income cap for the $800 (filing single) check is $85k and the income cap for the $1600 check (for filing joint) is $115k, the "stimulus package" also makes permanent a number of tax breaks for the upper 25% of individuals and makes some corporate tax cuts permanent. The cost of the checks and tax cuts to individuals runs about $100Billion. The cost of the corporate tax cuts is about $50Billion for the first decade.

Congressional Democrats, meanwhile, are suggesting they would be willing to suspend their own budget rules and accept a tax break without first figuring out how to pay for it, the Journal said.

That part is scary to me, especially if the number I was hearing on the way to work was correct at 100 Billion dollars total.

140
ps why do the democrats want to give my 800 dollars to people who dont pay taxes

See above. This is bush's plan, but somehow you want to blame it on the democrats.

The motto of this "package" should be no bubble left behind!

It isn't *that* much different from the proposed package the democrats were proposing though. The dollar amount per person was 500, and the various packages included additional money to go into certain sectors depending on who submitted them.

[Xyun]

Riiiight.

Nevermind the republicans that have put us into the largest deficit in history over the last 7.5 yrs. That's not nearly as effective at hurting the economy as people 'talking' about it.

Perception is reality.

Rofl.

lolololol.



Fiction is Fact!

[Noysyrump]

Riiiight.

Nevermind the republicans that have put us into the largest deficit in history over the last 7.5 yrs. That's not nearly as effective at hurting the economy as people 'talking' about it.

Perception is reality.

Rofl.

lolololol.



Fiction is Fact!

Oh come on xyun, your smarter than that. The economy is 100% based on everyones PERCEPTION of how good things are. Midnyte's quote hit it right on the head. Perception IS Reality when it comes to an arbitrary concept such as the economy or the dollar.

[Siji]

My perception is that you're a fucking idiot. (Not you syrup boy)

Being in debt, not affording your bills and losing your home isn't perception. Some freak standing on the corner talking about Jesus coming to cleanse the world doesn't make it a fucking reality.

[Xyun]

Riiiight.

Nevermind the republicans that have put us into the largest deficit in history over the last 7.5 yrs. That's not nearly as effective at hurting the economy as people 'talking' about it.

Perception is reality.

Rofl.

lolololol.



Fiction is Fact!

Oh come on xyun, your smarter than that. The economy is 100% based on everyones PERCEPTION of how good things are. Midnyte's quote hit it right on the head. Perception IS Reality when it comes to an arbitrary concept such as the economy or the dollar.

This idea is so utterly imbecilic. First of all, if perception is reality then global warming exists. Reflect on that goddamn fucking epiphany for a fucking while before you make such a moronic statement ever again.

It's funny how you guys have mastered the inability to grasp gaping contradictions in your arguments.

Take a moment to logically think about why this silly argument has to be made. If you fucking read the thread, this argument is being made to support the idea that the economy was actually a-ok until democratic presidential candidates starting talking all doom and gloom and that is what caused the economic downturn. Are you fucking kidding me? This argument is fallacious on so many fucking levels it's mind boggling.

It denies the REALITY of the economic downturn. It denies FACTS, such as subprime lending crisis, foreclosures, the drop of the dollar, major fucking corporations going bankrupt or borrowing money to stay afloat, the trade deficit, the budget deficit, the rise in unemployment and a plethora of other shit that neither I nor you understand but that actually fucking happened. After denying that all this actually happened (lol) and is at the very least partly responsible for the current state of the economy, the argument says that not just this, but ANY and ALL economic downturn is always perceived (never real) and can always be blamed on pessimistic rhetoric and not actual policy.

rofl.

It is just nonsense. pure nonsense.

Sure there are times when perception is a reality, but perception is not fucking reality. We can't think or will shit into reality just because some idiot blabbers nonsense on an internet forum. Facts actually fucking exist. FACTS are indisputable truths such as 2+2=4 or you need food and water or you will die. Anytime you see someone make the statement "perception is reality" in support of an argument or to prove a point or to defend someone they like or blame someone they don't, your bullshit alarm should go off and you should immediately begin looking for the actual, factual, reality that they are trying to deny. Because the statement itself attempts to cloud YOUR perception of reality.

The economy is NOT based 100% on perception.

fucking fuck that's so stupid.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

This idea is so utterly imbecilic. First of all, if perception is reality then global warming exists

EXACTLY!!!!!!

You dumb mother fucker. You just proved our fucking point.

[Fairweather Pure]

You dumb mother fucker. You just proved our fucking point.

George Orwell wrote an entire book about you.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Wow, you just don't get it. You're the ones listening to the radio and believing everything you hear. *sigh*

[Noysyrump]

Ok yes, there are other factors involved, I over simplify, because I dont want to spend 3 hours posting about why really shit sucks.

For simplicities sake I simplify. But to think that a housing bust from bad lending practices is gonna effect the whole economy on its own isnt really possible. The people effected by the 'housing crisis' are lower income people (who dont invest in stock market stocks anyways) and the lenders who made the bad loans. Everyone else can benefit from it from reduced housing prices and reduced intrest rates. Good for the economy that is!~

'The economy' is a measure of economic 'growth', that is, how much money is changing hands at any given time. Factored further for inflation, per capita dollar amounts, etc. You get some basic, arbitrary concept of how wealthy we all are. The Money doesnt just disapear in a recession... people just save it instead of spending it. Less cash movement and all the sudden everyone freaks out... Then when people start freaking... they do stupid shit. They try to sell off there stocks (lowering their worth), they stop buying frivilouse luxuries (slowing the movement of $) and in a worse case senerio (like in the 20s) they make a bank run, and withdraw there savings.

All of that was caused because PEOPLE BELIEVED there was a problem, thus causing a problem. Now with Hillary and Obama constantly blathering about a recession, it incites that panic, not in everyone mind you, but enough people to get things started.

Now even if you BELIEVE the earth is melting, it in fact does not make it melt, so that whole comparison was a little off base.

[Boogahz]

You are missing a lot of other areas impacted by the housing issues. It is not just the people who would be using the "creative financing" loans to sell or buy a home which are affected. You are leaving out all of the homebuilders, suppliers of various goods to the homebuilders, cities/counties/states losing on tax revenue which goes back into public spending, utilities not able to expand their services, etc.. Natural goods get impacted as the demand drops quickly. Lumber, metals, etc., drop in value as surplus goods are sitting in warehouses with nobody buying them. There really is a lot more to it than a couple politicians saying a word on TV.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Ever ask yourself why they track "Consumer confidence"?