A whole new can of global warming worms

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » December 5, 2007, 12:56 am

Computer servers are at least as great a threat to the climate as SUVs or the global aviation industry, warns a new report.

Global Action Plan, a UK-based environmental organisation, publishes a report today drawing attention to the carbon footprint of the IT industry in the UK.

"Computers are seen as quite benign things sitting on your desk," says Trewin Restorick, director of the group. "But, for instance, in our charity we have one server. That server has same carbon footprint as your average SUV doing 15 miles to the gallon. Yet, whereas the SUV is seen as a villain from the environmental perspective, the server is not."

The report, An Inefficient Truth states that with more than 1 billion computers on the planet, the global IT sector is responsible for about 2% of human carbon dioxide emissions each year – a similar figure to the global airline industry.

The energy consumption is driven largely by vast amounts of customer and user data that are stored on the computer servers in most businesses. The rate at which data storage is growing surpasses the growth in the airline industry: in 2006, 48% more data storage capacity was sold in the UK than in 2005, while the number of plane passengers grew by 3%.
Unknown cost

The group ran a survey of some of the largest businesses in the UK in an attempt to find out how aware the industry is of its carbon footprint.

The survey revealed that more than half of the IT professionals surveyed believed their environmental impact was "significant", however:

• 86% of them do not know the carbon footprint of their activities

• two thirds of the departments they work for are not responsible for paying their own energy bills

• more than half do not even see those bills

The bottom line is that IT departments "are buying lots and lots of kit that they have to run and cool without knowing what the energy cost of that kit is", says Restorick.

The survey also revealed that considerable amounts of electricity could be saved by more efficient data storage: 60% of the departments said they were using less than half their storage capacity and 37% said they are storing data indefinitely.

Restorick told New Scientist that simply increasing the efficiency of energy use and data storage could easily cut 30% of power use in businesses. "In theory, this could happen overnight," he says.
ID cards

Respondents to the survey said they are given few if any incentives to "go green". Global Action Plan is calling on the UK government to review its policies on long-term data storage to take into account the environmental implications and to encourage businesses to only keep the data they need to save.

Restorick points out that policies being pursued by the government have considerable carbon costs. "This government is very keen on individual ID cards," says Restorick. "We would say you should be doing a carbon analysis of putting ID cards into our country – such cards would require data being kept on every single person in the country for an infinite amount of time."

The report is published as a major UN conference about climate change opens in Bali, Indonesia.

From 3 to 14 December, thousands of representatives from governments around the world, NGOs, climate policy makers, researchers, environmental activists, and lobbyists meet in Bali to negotiate a successor to the Kyoto protocol and discuss its progress.

I just thought this was the perfect place to toss this article (I looked for it after hearing the statistics on the local news tonight). So Animale, I suppose you also expect the government to invest trillions of dollars into the technology industry to help find a way to take care of this problem as well? Or maybe you expect the companies to bankrupt themselves in attempt to completely change computer hardware. Let me know, I'm curious.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » December 5, 2007, 1:12 am

That's random. How about freezers, washer/dryers and dishwashers? Shit uses power, that is well known. Air conditioning is the biggest culprit (edit, speculation)for most server rooms/datacenters, so I would figure that to be the end result of heat emission from servers. Better utilization of resources/"green-friendly" technology by electric companies would be a better route here.

I think this is further down the road, unfortunately. However, I do not think it is too much to ask of folks just to be more wise how they use their own appliances, etc. than to expect large or even tiny companies to find some way to make their HW toss out less heat. I think this site/publication is reaching a bit. There are much simpler ways to help the environment.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » December 5, 2007, 1:15 am

I'm just thinking that Gore has got to be absolutely beside himself. I mean, to think - all those years ago when he invented the internet, I bet he didn't think it would lead to a major contributor to the evil he is trying so hard to combat.

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » December 5, 2007, 1:16 am

You do realize that the computers themselves are not letting off carbon emissions, right? The carbon emissions are coming from the power needed to operate those computers. Changing the way that power is generated (from coal to nuclear, for example) would be the way to fix that. In other words, the exact same thing Animale has been posting about.

You're such a colossal idiot.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » December 5, 2007, 1:23 am

Funkmasterr wrote:I'm just thinking that Gore has got to be absolutely beside himself. I mean, to think - all those years ago when he invented the internet, I bet he didn't think it would lead to a major contributor to the evil he is trying so hard to combat.

lol

Fucking gore... while I applaud his efforts to promote awareness and "green-friendly" habits towards the environment, his obvious asshattery and outright lies have led to folks completely ignoring what he set out to accomplish (illegedly) in the first place. He took common sense and being aware of one's surroundings/habits and turned it into a big fat personal shiny trophy about how-great-he-is. What a fucking tosser.

That aside, the article is a stab at shadows. Sure, you get enough hardware and A/C units to cool them down and there are going to be resource drains. Duh! How about skyscrapers in the summer? Jesus-pete0fuck name a topic and someone can find environmental issues. It all just lessons the main goal of protecting our planet. Hell, I can toss a rock and hit a redneck in most states, but that doesn't solve the problem, it just makes for some giggles.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » December 5, 2007, 1:40 am

Better utilization of resources/"green-friendly" technology by electric companies would be a better route here.

We've discussed this before and the fact is IOU Engery companies invest in green power because they have to. The payback on anything but Nuclear Power is virtually nil. You will need to have companies like Google developing new products, or goverment supported programs, or your electric bill is going to 1000 dollars a month for an average size home. The utility industry is made up of IOU's, who have to report to stockholders, Co-Op's which are basically a shared farm owned company that serves an area, or a local municipality. The Co-ops and muni's are already spread thin on expenses and cannot support development and the IOU's know it will seriously hurt stock price to spend the money in development.

No one wants the non-profitable wind farms destroying their view and no one wants a nuclear plant by their home, so development will have to come from government subsidized programs and think tanks.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » December 5, 2007, 1:48 am

Vetiria wrote:You do realize that the computers themselves are not letting off carbon emissions, right? The carbon emissions are coming from the power needed to operate those computers. Changing the way that power is generated (from coal to nuclear, for example) would be the way to fix that. In other words, the exact same thing Animale has been posting about.

You're such a colossal idiot.

I am completely aware of that, I was hoping I could get one of you morons to make yourselves look like an idiot or an asshole though, and you won first prize, congrats! The point isn't whether the computers/servers are directly or indirectly effecting things, but if any of you are so concerned about doing your part, if your job has any servers you should probably quit tomorrow. Or be a hypocrite about it, as usual.

You are completely worthless, your opinion is irrelevant, and you should stick to your normal posting patterns (ie: very rarely) because besides assuming I did not understand the obvious, and being a fucking douche about it, your post added nothing to this site. Congrats, I'm sure the army of the rest of my inferiors will shortly be running to your defense though, so don't fret.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » December 5, 2007, 1:50 am

Tyek wrote:
Better utilization of resources/"green-friendly" technology by electric companies would be a better route here.
We've discussed this before and the fact is IOU Engery companies invest in green power because they have to. The payback on anything but Nuclear Power is virtually nil. You will need to have companies like Google developing new products, or goverment supported programs, or your electric bill is going to 1000 dollars a month for an average size home. The utility industry is made up of IOU's, who have to report to stockholders, Co-Op's which are basically a shared farm owned company that serves an area, or a local municipality. The Co-ops and muni's are already spread thin on expenses and cannot support development and the IOU's know it will seriously hurt stock price to spend the money in development.

No one wants the non-profitable wind farms destroying their view and no one wants a nuclear plant by their home, so development will have to come from government subsidized programs and think tanks.

I fully understand what you are saying. What I don't think some people understand is the scope of what they are basically demanding be done to combat a supposed outcome that is questionable at best.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » December 5, 2007, 2:09 am

I'm also amused at their comparision between storage capacity and number of passengers flying.... hi, I'm a reporter and I don't understand what a computer is!

It's also interesting that as a matter of course servers are being "compressed" and their heat generation per CPU is dropping, and (as a ratio of heat to power) dropping at an exponential rate.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » December 5, 2007, 2:11 am

Funkmasterr wrote:
Vetiria wrote:You do realize that the computers themselves are not letting off carbon emissions, right? The carbon emissions are coming from the power needed to operate those computers. Changing the way that power is generated (from coal to nuclear, for example) would be the way to fix that. In other words, the exact same thing Animale has been posting about.

You're such a colossal idiot.

I am completely aware of that, I was hoping I could get one of you morons to make yourselves look like an idiot or an asshole though, and you won first prize, congrats! The point isn't whether the computers/servers are directly or indirectly effecting things, but if any of you are so concerned about doing your part, if your job has any servers you should probably quit tomorrow. Or be a hypocrite about it, as usual.

You are completely worthless, your opinion is irrelevant, and you should stick to your normal posting patterns (ie: very rarely) because besides assuming I did not understand the obvious, and being a fucking douche about it, your post added nothing to this site. Congrats, I'm sure the army of the rest of my inferiors will shortly be running to your defense though, so don't fret.

roflmao. Anyone else wondering if he's really this delusional, or just trolling poorly?

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » December 5, 2007, 2:57 am

Ignoring the issues while focusing on fringe "environmentalist" articles. We can go on and on here...

I understand why folks are disenfranchised about trying to heal the harm due to asshats like Gore; but completely dismissing the problem is outright foolish. Despite being utter morons and having more self-serving "causes" than synaptic firings, the doomsbringers like Gore have a central point--stop fucking being selfish and recycle or something forfucksake. This planet will not regenerate at this rate.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » December 5, 2007, 3:55 am

Funkmasterr wrote:
Vetiria wrote:You do realize that the computers themselves are not letting off carbon emissions, right? The carbon emissions are coming from the power needed to operate those computers. Changing the way that power is generated (from coal to nuclear, for example) would be the way to fix that. In other words, the exact same thing Animale has been posting about.

You're such a colossal idiot.

I am completely aware of that, I was hoping I could get one of you morons to make yourselves look like an idiot or an asshole though, and you won first prize, congrats! The point isn't whether the computers/servers are directly or indirectly effecting things, but if any of you are so concerned about doing your part, if your job has any servers you should probably quit tomorrow. Or be a hypocrite about it, as usual.

You are completely worthless, your opinion is irrelevant, and you should stick to your normal posting patterns (ie: very rarely) because besides assuming I did not understand the obvious, and being a fucking douche about it, your post added nothing to this site. Congrats, I'm sure the army of the rest of my inferiors will shortly be running to your defense though, so don't fret.

Are you going to ignore him next?

Animale · Post by **Animale** » December 5, 2007, 4:21 am

I know that at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory there are several engineering folks trying to work on this problem - call it greener computing for lack of a better word. One way, which I saw at a poster session, is to have servers be able to power down when underutilized, but be able to very quickly come back online to meet peak demands. Most servers operate at well under spec most of the time, and this type of system, if perfected, would save quite a bit of energy.

It (saving energy in computing) is something that industry is interested in as well, as energy = money. For this, there is a definite economic driving force to get more efficient, and in industry money talks, often louder than a computer's raw ability. This is one of those areas where market forces will drive development on the short to mid term.

In short, not really a big deal as it is already a monetized problem. The bigger issues lie where there is no monetary incentive to create higher efficiencies (power plants, automobiles, heavy industry, etc.) In those areas, government needs to find a way to monetize it, whether that be by a false market (cap and trade) or some other means (carbon taxes). That is governments role, to create an economic system that demands higher efficiencies/lower emissions. (Such things would further serve to increase the monetary rewards for efficient computing as well)

Animale

Nick · Post by **Nick** » December 5, 2007, 8:54 am

It really is hilarious watching Funkmasterr scratch at Animale's heels in a deluded and unsuccesful attempt to patronise him. It's like you're proud of your ignorance.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » December 5, 2007, 10:40 am

Nick wrote:It really is hilarious watching Funkmasterr scratch at Animale's heels in a deluded and unsuccesful attempt to patronise him. It's like you're proud of your ignorance.

Proud of my ignorance? Patronize? It amazes me that you seem to think you are so intelligent. This is how it is, period, I will accept no excuses because there are none, end of story: If you are going to get on this global warming bandwagon and flap your gums about it constantly and cry injustice because people like myself understand the world isn't going to end like you mother fucking retards do - you had god damn well not do a single thing that you isn't required of you to survive that contributes to the problem.

This means your only transportation better be foot/bike/rollerblade/skateboard,etc. You better not use any electricity you don't need to keep yourself alive, etc. Just cutting back and keeping the luxuries you want is not acceptable, it makes you a hypocrite, period.

I am far from delusional, that's the funny thing. How such a concentration of delusional morons all ended up here is beyond me, but the normal intelligent people I talk to on a day to day basis are much closer to the beliefs I hold than the consensus here on vv.

Kaldaur · Post by **Kaldaur** » December 5, 2007, 11:48 am

I don't think anyone has said, "Ride your bikes to work, global warming is here." What people have been addressing is the need to admit that there are many things we can do better in our daily lives that won't affect the planet to so great a degree.
For instance, alternative fuel, and, as Animale pointed out above, making computers 'greener'. No one is advocating the overthrow of transportation and living in the same room as sheep and pigs to conserve our planet.
Tone down the rhetoric.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » December 5, 2007, 1:15 pm

Kaldaur wrote:I don't think anyone has said, "Ride your bikes to work, global warming is here." What people have been addressing is the need to admit that there are many things we can do better in our daily lives that won't affect the planet to so great a degree.
For instance, alternative fuel, and, as Animale pointed out above, making computers 'greener'. No one is advocating the overthrow of transportation and living in the same room as sheep and pigs to conserve our planet.
Tone down the rhetoric.

I think you are wrong, they are not really allowing for any grey area in their solution/demands, so the road works both ways. I'm sorry, I just won't accept a half assed response from the people that are buzzing in my fucking ear so loudly about this.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » December 5, 2007, 1:30 pm

Yes everyone around the globe, including the UN panel on climate change, is wrong apart from some backwater yokel from middle America who hasn't done his research.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » December 5, 2007, 1:51 pm

Nick wrote:Yes everyone around the globe, including the UN panel on climate change, is wrong apart from some backwater yokel from middle America who hasn't done his research.

Where in my previous statement did I say anything about right or wrong? I'm just saying, I don't half ass things that I believe in and I expect the same from others. Either you are 100% in, or you are 100% out. You can half ass it all you want, but I (and plenty of other people) am not going to take you seriously for even a millisecond in that case.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » December 5, 2007, 2:26 pm

Every time Funk opens his mouth I find myself wondering why for fuck's sake he couldn't have left work 5 minutes earlier on August 1st

Anyone else?

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » December 5, 2007, 3:34 pm

You won't be able to meaningfully reduce IT footprints until end users get out of the mindset that you can keep everything indefinately and that doing so has real consequences.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » December 5, 2007, 3:43 pm

Animalor wrote:You won't be able to meaningfully reduce IT footprints until end users get out of the mindset that you can keep everything indefinately and that doing so has real consequences.

I have no argument with you there. I wouldn't say I'm a messy person, but I'm not a neat freak when it comes to other aspects of my life - but on my computer I am. I get rid of everything I don't need asap and have everything else organized the best I possibly can. I don't see why people can't take a few minutes a week to do the same. Think of how much space an average mid sized company probably has to dedicate just for email. The company I work for, for example basically does not limit the storage space for emails. You are limited to the size that your inbox can be, but your archive files have absolutely no limit. I know some people who have worked here for 5+ years and have deleted very few of their emails in that time.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » December 5, 2007, 4:12 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:I am far from delusional, that's the funny thing. How such a concentration of delusional morons all ended up here is beyond me, but the normal intelligent people I talk to on a day to day basis are much closer to the beliefs I hold than the consensus here on vv.

Yes, you are. The "intelligent" people you talk to on a day to day basis are obviously just another group of hicks with no fucking clue what they're talking about.

Intellect != "Proximity to me"

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » December 5, 2007, 7:10 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:I am far from delusional, that's the funny thing. How such a concentration of delusional morons all ended up here is beyond me, but the normal intelligent people I talk to on a day to day basis are much closer to the beliefs I hold than the consensus here on vv.

That doesn't mean you're not delusional idiot, it means you live and work near other fucking idiots "on a day to day basis". The reason the consensus on vv is this way is because the intelligence of the normal vv poster is far superior to the average minnesotan. Only a moron like yourself would think the people in your life are more intelligent than the people on this site. I have no such delusions. Which goes to prove even more so that you are in fact delusional.

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » December 5, 2007, 7:31 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:I am completely aware of that

Yes, now that someone explained it to you, you are aware of that.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » December 5, 2007, 8:24 pm

Hell, if I still lived in MN w/ Funk and his band of merry fucktards, I'd be in favour of global warming too.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » December 5, 2007, 10:25 pm

Xyun wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:I am far from delusional, that's the funny thing. How such a concentration of delusional morons all ended up here is beyond me, but the normal intelligent people I talk to on a day to day basis are much closer to the beliefs I hold than the consensus here on vv.
That doesn't mean you're not delusional idiot, it means you live and work near other fucking idiots "on a day to day basis". The reason the consensus on vv is this way is because the intelligence of the normal vv poster is far superior to the average minnesotan. Only a moron like yourself would think the people in your life are more intelligent than the people on this site. I have no such delusions. Which goes to prove even more so that you are in fact delusional.

Thank you so much! That is the funniest thing I have read in a long, long time. I know people who don't get pissed at stupidity like the kind that runs rampant here, and don't let it effect their ability to convey a clear message like it unfortunately does for me most of the time (mostly because I'm too busy wondering how people could really believe something the whole time I'm trying to write) that could talk even the most long winded of you assholes down, citing examples and facts the whole way. The thing is, they usually have much better shit to do with their time then talk to a bunch of fucking morons that immediately dismiss everything they don't agree with as stupid, redneck, ignorant, whatever. There are so many textbook cases of ignorant liberal dipshits here it amazes me!

Anyways, shouldn't you be busy packing your bags? Get to it!

EDIT: 98% of the people who post here are very liberal. Even half the people I have heard claim they usually vote conservative (other than Bush) seem to have a very liberal stance on every issue I see them posting on. So in effect you are claiming that Liberal people are more intelligent in general, which is so far beyond funny I can't even find a word for it.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » December 5, 2007, 10:46 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:
Xyun wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:I am far from delusional, that's the funny thing. How such a concentration of delusional morons all ended up here is beyond me, but the normal intelligent people I talk to on a day to day basis are much closer to the beliefs I hold than the consensus here on vv.
That doesn't mean you're not delusional idiot, it means you live and work near other fucking idiots "on a day to day basis". The reason the consensus on vv is this way is because the intelligence of the normal vv poster is far superior to the average minnesotan. Only a moron like yourself would think the people in your life are more intelligent than the people on this site. I have no such delusions. Which goes to prove even more so that you are in fact delusional.

Thank you so much! That is the funniest thing I have read in a long, long time. I know people who don't get pissed at stupidity like the kind that runs rampant here, and don't let it effect their ability to convey a clear message like it unfortunately does for me most of the time (mostly because I'm too busy wondering how people could really believe something the whole time I'm trying to write) that could talk even the most long winded of you assholes down, citing examples and facts the whole way. The thing is, they usually have much better shit to do with their time then talk to a bunch of fucking morons that immediately dismiss everything they don't agree with as stupid, redneck, ignorant, whatever. There are so many textbook cases of ignorant liberal dipshits here it amazes me!

Anyways, shouldn't you be busy packing your bags? Get to it!

EDIT: 98% of the people who post here are very liberal. Even half the people I have heard claim they usually vote conservative (other than Bush) seem to have a very liberal stance on every issue I see them posting on. So in effect you are claiming that Liberal people are more intelligent in general, which is so far beyond funny I can't even find a word for it.

You sure are stupid. I never said anything regarding people's political stances. You are unsuccessfully attempting to put words in my mouth. I said the average vv poster is smarter than the average minnesotan. That is fucking reality and it won't change despite your denials. I can even prove this fact to you if you like. The political leanings of the average poster has nothing to do with what i said. You are an idiot for assuming as much.

That's the problem with ignorant people. They make warped assumptions based on nothing having to do with reality.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » December 5, 2007, 11:03 pm

Xyun wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:
Xyun wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:I am far from delusional, that's the funny thing. How such a concentration of delusional morons all ended up here is beyond me, but the normal intelligent people I talk to on a day to day basis are much closer to the beliefs I hold than the consensus here on vv.
That doesn't mean you're not delusional idiot, it means you live and work near other fucking idiots "on a day to day basis". The reason the consensus on vv is this way is because the intelligence of the normal vv poster is far superior to the average minnesotan. Only a moron like yourself would think the people in your life are more intelligent than the people on this site. I have no such delusions. Which goes to prove even more so that you are in fact delusional.

Thank you so much! That is the funniest thing I have read in a long, long time. I know people who don't get pissed at stupidity like the kind that runs rampant here, and don't let it effect their ability to convey a clear message like it unfortunately does for me most of the time (mostly because I'm too busy wondering how people could really believe something the whole time I'm trying to write) that could talk even the most long winded of you assholes down, citing examples and facts the whole way. The thing is, they usually have much better shit to do with their time then talk to a bunch of fucking morons that immediately dismiss everything they don't agree with as stupid, redneck, ignorant, whatever. There are so many textbook cases of ignorant liberal dipshits here it amazes me!

Anyways, shouldn't you be busy packing your bags? Get to it!

EDIT: 98% of the people who post here are very liberal. Even half the people I have heard claim they usually vote conservative (other than Bush) seem to have a very liberal stance on every issue I see them posting on. So in effect you are claiming that Liberal people are more intelligent in general, which is so far beyond funny I can't even find a word for it.
You sure are stupid. I never said anything regarding people's political stances. You are unsuccessfully attempting to put words in my mouth. I said the average vv poster is smarter than the average minnesotan. That is fucking reality and it won't change despite your denials. I can even prove this fact to you if you like. The political leanings of the average poster has nothing to do with what i said. You are an idiot for assuming as much.

That's the problem with ignorant people. They make warped assumptions based on nothing having to do with reality.

I never implied that you did you shallow fuck. I was saying that in response to your ignorant and completely unfounded comment. The average poster on VV is not just a little, but a lot liberal - the people I associate myself with vary, and can be liberal, but to no where near the degree of VV - and most are not liberal at all. SO therefore you are indirectly saying that (because your comment is based off of me and the people I associate with, I don't think that is debatable) the average liberal whack job is smarter than the highly educated non-liberal people (from MN) that I associate with.

I know these people to be very intelligent and have seen proof time and time again. All I have seen proof of on VV is the average poster is a whiney fucking liberal moron (kinda like yourself) who in most cases (besides maybe animale and sueven who actually continue to debate - as far as regular posters in this forum go-) claims to desire and try to instigate debate, but when faced with opposition resort to name calling and other bullshit almost immediately. You are happy to sit and toss "facts" around with other people who think like you however (and then deny that undeniable fact when someone points it out here, read: not only myself) which I find kind of funny, and pointless.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » December 5, 2007, 11:10 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberalsblah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals blah blah blah liberals

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » December 5, 2007, 11:13 pm

Thanks for helping to support what I said, nick!

And sorry, it obviously bothers you when I use that word. However, I think it is totally logical that I would, and here is my reason why. 75% of the time I hear a view/stance on something that would be commonly labeled as a liberal view/stance, I find myself wondering if the person really said that, or if it was actually their retarded 7 year old sibling. I never really considered myself republican/conservative, but who knows.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » December 5, 2007, 11:28 pm

Funkmasterr wrote: I know these people to be very intelligent and have seen proof time and time again. All I have seen proof of on VV is the average poster is a whiney fucking liberal moron (kinda like yourself) who in most cases (besides maybe animale and sueven who actually continue to debate - as far as regular posters in this forum go-) claims to desire and try to instigate debate, but when faced with opposition resort to name calling and other bullshit almost immediately. You are happy to sit and toss "facts" around with other people who think like you however (and then deny that undeniable fact when someone points it out here, read: not only myself) which I find kind of funny, and pointless.

Why is it always the "super smart right" people that constantly whine about "name calling" in the same breath that they call everyone who doesn't agree with them morons?

/yawn

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » December 5, 2007, 11:33 pm

Zaelath wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote: I know these people to be very intelligent and have seen proof time and time again. All I have seen proof of on VV is the average poster is a whiney fucking liberal moron (kinda like yourself) who in most cases (besides maybe animale and sueven who actually continue to debate - as far as regular posters in this forum go-) claims to desire and try to instigate debate, but when faced with opposition resort to name calling and other bullshit almost immediately. You are happy to sit and toss "facts" around with other people who think like you however (and then deny that undeniable fact when someone points it out here, read: not only myself) which I find kind of funny, and pointless.
Why is it always the "super smart right" people that constantly whine about "name calling" in the same breath that they call everyone who doesn't agree with them morons?

/yawn

I viewed this post of yours because I have come to find that when you and nick post in short succession of each other, your posts actually kind of fit together like two pieces of a puzzle of a slobbering wheel chair bound retard.

As to your question, allow me to retort. Generally, in my day to day life I would not resort to name calling, even when speaking to someone who I strongly disagree with. However here, nearly everyone who posts in response to me starts name calling before they even address what I said, even if it was "the sky is blue." So I figure, why bother being civil? I know you sure as shit won't be, and I don't need to be the "bigger" person to know that I'm better. That help?

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » December 5, 2007, 11:37 pm

Aren't they cute when they're groping for justification of their hypocrisy?

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » December 5, 2007, 11:54 pm

Zaelath wrote:Aren't they cute when they're groping for justification of their hypocrisy?

Call it what you want, what I said is true. Why the hell should I treat anyone who hurls insults at me un provoked every chance they get with even a shred of respect? Answer me that.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » December 6, 2007, 12:15 am

Funkmasterr wrote: everyone who posts in response to me starts name calling before they even address what I said, even if it was "the sky is blue."

That would be fine except instead of actually stating realities such as "the sky is blue" you come off with "hurf durf all liberals are gay and all other countries are shit should do as the USA says without question because we are superior in every way P.s its good to curtail freedom of speech and support murderers". (and that's just today)

Are you getting this at all?

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » December 6, 2007, 12:25 am

Nick wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote: everyone who posts in response to me starts name calling before they even address what I said, even if it was "the sky is blue."
That would be fine except instead of actually stating realities such as "the sky is blue" you come off with "hurf durf all liberals are gay and all other countries are shit should do as the USA says without question because we are superior in every way P.s its good to curtail freedom of speech and support murderers". (and that's just today)

Are you getting this at all?

You are so fucked up in the head that's how you see shit (lol let's defend the right to freedom of speech for extremely psychotic militants, it would be a tragedy for their wisdom not to be spread!) I'm not surprised. However, the question was not directed at you.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » December 6, 2007, 12:32 am

Funkmasterr wrote:
Zaelath wrote:Aren't they cute when they're groping for justification of their hypocrisy?
Call it what you want, what I said is true. Why the hell should I treat anyone who hurls insults at me un provoked every chance they get with even a shred of respect? Answer me that.

a) I think you should go back to ignoring me, because you're just wasting my time. I will explain this for you and you will put your fingers in your ears and say "nah nah nah nah".

b) Feel free to go back to the TSA thread. In there you will find me suggesting people are "funny", the same type of people mind you that when presented with a proper dissection of airport security later seemed to have changed their mind. This is quickly followed up by your fellow whiner about name calling start off a post with "No asshole", and your good self coming out with "paranoid, delusional retard". Both of these comments clearly directed at a singular individual, not a general case (as when I referred to the community paranoia about terrorism).

Yes, the thread degenerated from there, with you misinterpreting what I said and going off on pointless rants at a tangent to the actual topic along with more slander and generally being a prick, and I lost my temper and responded in kind.

Now, that's how I see it, but really, feel free to show me how I started the mud slinging at any individual, and note also, that I don't curl up in the foetal position and cry about "name calling" anyway, so I'm not being a hypocrite by responding in kind.

Happy?

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » December 6, 2007, 2:05 am

Zaelath wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:
Zaelath wrote:Aren't they cute when they're groping for justification of their hypocrisy?
Call it what you want, what I said is true. Why the hell should I treat anyone who hurls insults at me un provoked every chance they get with even a shred of respect? Answer me that.
a) I think you should go back to ignoring me, because you're just wasting my time. I will explain this for you and you will put your fingers in your ears and say "nah nah nah nah".

b) Feel free to go back to the TSA thread. In there you will find me suggesting people are "funny", the same type of people mind you that when presented with a proper dissection of airport security later seemed to have changed their mind. This is quickly followed up by your fellow whiner about name calling start off a post with "No asshole", and your good self coming out with "paranoid, delusional retard". Both of these comments clearly directed at a singular individual, not a general case (as when I referred to the community paranoia about terrorism).

Yes, the thread degenerated from there, with you misinterpreting what I said and going off on pointless rants at a tangent to the actual topic along with more slander and generally being a prick, and I lost my temper and responded in kind.

Now, that's how I see it, but really, feel free to show me how I started the mud slinging at any individual, and note also, that I don't curl up in the foetal position and cry about "name calling" anyway, so I'm not being a hypocrite by responding in kind.

Happy?

While I think that is a load of bullshit, yes I'm happy you could directly respond to a question. I will go back to ignoring you now, have fun.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » December 6, 2007, 3:18 am

Funkmasterr wrote:
Zaelath wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:
Zaelath wrote:Aren't they cute when they're groping for justification of their hypocrisy?
Call it what you want, what I said is true. Why the hell should I treat anyone who hurls insults at me un provoked every chance they get with even a shred of respect? Answer me that.
a) I think you should go back to ignoring me, because you're just wasting my time. I will explain this for you and you will put your fingers in your ears and say "nah nah nah nah".

b) Feel free to go back to the TSA thread. In there you will find me suggesting people are "funny", the same type of people mind you that when presented with a proper dissection of airport security later seemed to have changed their mind. This is quickly followed up by your fellow whiner about name calling start off a post with "No asshole", and your good self coming out with "paranoid, delusional retard". Both of these comments clearly directed at a singular individual, not a general case (as when I referred to the community paranoia about terrorism).

Yes, the thread degenerated from there, with you misinterpreting what I said and going off on pointless rants at a tangent to the actual topic along with more slander and generally being a prick, and I lost my temper and responded in kind.

Now, that's how I see it, but really, feel free to show me how I started the mud slinging at any individual, and note also, that I don't curl up in the foetal position and cry about "name calling" anyway, so I'm not being a hypocrite by responding in kind.

Happy?

While I think that is a load of bullshit, yes I'm happy you could directly respond to a question. I will go back to ignoring you now, have fun.

Of course you do, but you offer no reason or proof of your opinion, yet again. Just another reason why people just get frustrated and call you a fucktard, but thanks for proving a) correct.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » December 6, 2007, 3:39 am

I wouldn't say fucktard--that just ain't fair. I just think emotions show more in how some people respond in threads. There should be some sort of sociological text on this somewhere. For example; a frequent poster can show bits and pieces of personality quite easily through observed behavior. This is pretty easy to see, of course. I think funk may draw quite a bit of ire from others due to his own relations towards organized groups, like the black panthers or people on strike. Documented confrontations with random individuals also can add to this.

I'd say other than his posts on the CE section, he seems like a pretty swell cat. It is to bad that interactions solely via VV or whatever board can be so one-dimensional at times, but that is the nature of the forum.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » December 6, 2007, 11:25 am

Zaelath wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:
Zaelath wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:
Zaelath wrote:Aren't they cute when they're groping for justification of their hypocrisy?
Call it what you want, what I said is true. Why the hell should I treat anyone who hurls insults at me un provoked every chance they get with even a shred of respect? Answer me that.
a) I think you should go back to ignoring me, because you're just wasting my time. I will explain this for you and you will put your fingers in your ears and say "nah nah nah nah".

b) Feel free to go back to the TSA thread. In there you will find me suggesting people are "funny", the same type of people mind you that when presented with a proper dissection of airport security later seemed to have changed their mind. This is quickly followed up by your fellow whiner about name calling start off a post with "No asshole", and your good self coming out with "paranoid, delusional retard". Both of these comments clearly directed at a singular individual, not a general case (as when I referred to the community paranoia about terrorism).

Yes, the thread degenerated from there, with you misinterpreting what I said and going off on pointless rants at a tangent to the actual topic along with more slander and generally being a prick, and I lost my temper and responded in kind.

Now, that's how I see it, but really, feel free to show me how I started the mud slinging at any individual, and note also, that I don't curl up in the foetal position and cry about "name calling" anyway, so I'm not being a hypocrite by responding in kind.

Happy?

While I think that is a load of bullshit, yes I'm happy you could directly respond to a question. I will go back to ignoring you now, have fun.
Of course you do, but you offer no reason or proof of your opinion, yet again. Just another reason why people just get frustrated and call you a fucktard, but thanks for proving a) correct.

I offered no reason or proof because I'm tired of arguing the point with you and the feeling is obviously mutual, so why waste the time? If you really want me to let me know.

Noysyrump · Post by **Noysyrump** » December 7, 2007, 5:53 pm

man i was gonna reply about global warming but this thread is just more funk vs. the world crap again....

OMG my comp is evil! *click*

Midnyte_Ragebringer · December 7, 2007, 7:19 pm

Noysyrump wrote:man i was gonna reply about global warming but this thread is just more funk vs. the world crap again....

OMG my comp is evil! *click*

Some day these folks will realize it is them who has ruined the forums or they will come to realize they are a part of a new mindset, alla nazism, who hates and looks to extinguish all others who dare to oppose their points of view. Their way is the only true and right way. If you do not agree with them, then it is you who shall be labeled intolerant. Scary shit. /shrug

Nick · Post by **Nick** » December 7, 2007, 7:47 pm

Godwin's law invoked.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · December 7, 2007, 9:34 pm

Nick wrote:Godwin's law invoked.

LMAO ROFL Nice one dude.