Burma Massacre

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » October 1, 2007, 2:26 pm

I'm pretty surprised that this has not been brought up here on VV.

Word on the street is that there is monk genocide currently taking place in Burma, with death camps and all. The dead are already reported in the thousands. There are being executed, then thrown in the jungle.

I've yet to hear an official US response to this. I'm dissappointed we aren't stepping in to do something about this.

Ashur · Post by **Ashur** » October 1, 2007, 2:28 pm

Must not be Kwonru-style monks.

Post by **Sylvus** » October 1, 2007, 2:35 pm

From what I heard on the Daily Show (it's better than Fox News!), Bush brought up Burma in his recent (last week-ish) address to the UN. He said the events there were bad.

In other news, Burma is officially known as Myanmar, but not by the US or UK.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » October 1, 2007, 2:41 pm

And if we did do something a bunch of people would be outraged we are poking are noses in other peoples business. I mean, it's terrible that this is happening, but as far as I'm concerned after the ignorant fucking response to the war in iraq we should never, ever, help anyone else in the world ever again.

Post by **Sylvus** » October 1, 2007, 2:52 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:but as far as I'm concerned after the ignorant fucking response to the war in iraq we should never, ever, help anyone else in the world ever again.

Since when was the purpose of going into Iraq to help anyone?

I realize the goals and reasons for going there have changed a number of times over the last 4 or 5 years, but unless I'm mistaken that was never the reason that we went there. We went there because Saddam had WMDs and was in league with Al Qaeda. That's a lot different than trying to help a population that is being oppressed or to stop a genocide. I think the international community would have a more favorable opinion of the United States if we stepped in to, say, the Sudan than they were with us going into Iraq. They also seemed to not mind us going into Afghanistan, when we were going after a legitimate enemy of ours.

The response to the war in Iraq was and is far from ignorant.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » October 1, 2007, 2:54 pm

but as far as I'm concerned after the ignorant fucking response to the war in iraq we should never, ever, help anyone else in the world ever again.

Maybe if Bush was claiming the Burmese Junta was a direct threat to the US and linking them 9/11 so he could get their oil the two situations would be in the least bit comparable. Way to talk a lot of pig eyed shit, once again, Funk.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » October 1, 2007, 2:57 pm

I understand the difference between the two situations, but what I also understand is no matter what we do or what our intentions are, there is always someone that wants to make us out to be evil anytime we make a move. Since the world has proven to be ungrateful (I will only accept all or nothing, so one country/group running off at the mouth ruins it for them all) I see no reason we should help anyone for any reason.

We can keep the posts/bases we have in other countries so we have easy access to obliterate them if they ever even think about acting up, but other than that we should just pull our military back here and worry about ourselves, and the rest of the world can do the same.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » October 1, 2007, 2:58 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:And if we did do something a bunch of people would be outraged we are poking are noses in other peoples business. I mean, it's terrible that this is happening, but as far as I'm concerned after the ignorant fucking response to the war in iraq we should never, ever, help anyone else in the world ever again.

Are you are actually trying to bridge a connection between the gas attacks in Iraq, which took place in 1988, with the current event in question? If so, you would be saying we "helped out" Iraq over a decade after that attack. That's not really helping IMO. We were not "helping" anyone in Iraq. That was just an excuse. An excuse far too many people actually believe.

In Burma, we have a documented and ongoing slaughter taking place. There are prison/execution camps full of monks waiting to die as I type this.

Someone needs to strike oil in Burma ASAP.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » October 1, 2007, 3:00 pm

Nick wrote:
but as far as I'm concerned after the ignorant fucking response to the war in iraq we should never, ever, help anyone else in the world ever again.
Maybe if Bush was claiming the Burmese Junta was a direct threat to the US and linking them 9/11 so he could get their oil the two situations would be in the least bit comparable. Way to talk a lot of pig eyed shit, once again, Funk.

What does it matter to you? You have been one of the most outspoken here about how worthless the U.S. is, in this case you wouldn't have to worry about us, and since we are so incompetent and the rest of the world is so on the ball (especially ireland

) you obviously don't need our help anyway, and will be just fine without us.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » October 1, 2007, 3:03 pm

There are similar situations happening all over the world. Where does the U.S. go first?

Nick · Post by **Nick** » October 1, 2007, 3:06 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:(especially ireland )

I can't tell if this is a joke or not, because no one could be that retarded not to realise how ridiculously successful Ireland is in comparison to whatever backwater shithole state you live in.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » October 1, 2007, 3:10 pm

Fairweather Pure wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:And if we did do something a bunch of people would be outraged we are poking are noses in other peoples business. I mean, it's terrible that this is happening, but as far as I'm concerned after the ignorant fucking response to the war in iraq we should never, ever, help anyone else in the world ever again.
Are you are actually trying to bridge a connection between the gas attacks in Iraq, which took place in 1988, with the current event in question? If so, you would be saying we "helped out" Iraq over a decade after that attack. That's not really helping IMO. We were not "helping" anyone in Iraq. That was just an excuse. An excuse far too many people actually believe.

In Burma, we have a documented and ongoing slaughter taking place. There are prison/execution camps full of monks waiting to die as I type this.

Someone needs to strike oil in Burma ASAP.

Positively not, because no one seems to be reading what I wrote, I will break it down to one or two sentences.

If the entire world does not show complete gratitude and reverence every time we help someone, and keep their mouths shut when we decide to attack/whatever for any reason at all - then the entire world can go fuck themselves and deal with their own issues, their own way, without our help.

IMO, we should also give every country that owes us money 1 year from tomorrow to pay us back or risk being turned into a glass bead factory. I have had enough of everyone else's shit.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » October 1, 2007, 3:13 pm

Nick wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:(especially ireland )
I can't tell if this is a joke or not, because no one could be that retarded not to realise how ridiculously successful Ireland is in comparison to whatever backwater shithole state you live in.

Is your definition of success a bunch of fucking retarded religious zealots marching through the streets with their guns and fighting with another group of retards over religion and reasons they probably don't even remember for the last ?? years(I don't know how long it's been going on, so you can fill in the blank there.)

I realize things are getting back to semi - normal there but saying any part of Ireland is more successful than any part of the US is too ridiculous for words.

EDIT for clarity: I don't think the U.S. is better than you, I KNOW it is.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » October 1, 2007, 3:18 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:EDIT for clarity: I don't think the U.S. is better than you, I KNOW it is.

Sure thing Uncle Sam!

(P.s - hahahahahaha god you are such a fucking pathetic moron).

(P.p.s - http://www.economist.com/media/pdf/QUALITY_OF_LIFE.pdf - awesome)

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » October 1, 2007, 3:21 pm

Fairweather Pure wrote:I'm pretty surprised that this has not been brought up here on VV.

Word on the street is that there is monk genocide currently taking place in Burma, with death camps and all. The dead are already reported in the thousands. There are being executed, then thrown in the jungle.

I've yet to hear an official US response to this. I'm dissappointed we aren't stepping in to do something about this.

lol

Why should the US step in? We're the awful country who went into Iraq and ruined their wonderful lives. Fucking hippokrit.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » October 1, 2007, 3:24 pm

Fairweather Pure wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:And if we did do something a bunch of people would be outraged we are poking are noses in other peoples business. I mean, it's terrible that this is happening, but as far as I'm concerned after the ignorant fucking response to the war in iraq we should never, ever, help anyone else in the world ever again.
Are you are actually trying to bridge a connection between the gas attacks in Iraq, which took place in 1988, with the current event in question? If so, you would be saying we "helped out" Iraq over a decade after that attack. That's not really helping IMO. We were not "helping" anyone in Iraq. That was just an excuse. An excuse far too many people actually believe.

In Burma, we have a documented and ongoing slaughter taking place. There are prison/execution camps full of monks waiting to die as I type this.

Someone needs to strike oil in Burma ASAP.

By the way, that is an opinion, and an uniformed, incorrect one at that. Might as well point out the ignorance of most of you on this board since I've already said enough to get myself attacked from all angles.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » October 1, 2007, 3:25 pm

Nope, that would be a fact, his opinion just happens to match reality, you would do well to take after that a bit more.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » October 1, 2007, 3:29 pm

Nick wrote:Nope, that would be a fact, his opinion just happens to match reality, you would do well to take after that a bit more.

It's funny how you and others like you are so sure of yourselves, and call opinions facts constantly, and are so quick to jump on someone else doing the same goddamn thing you are doing.. But it's ok because you are just so fucking smart that you are obviously right.. What a joke.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » October 1, 2007, 3:31 pm

Do we have to talk about Iraq in every current events thread? What about Burma?

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » October 1, 2007, 3:31 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Fairweather Pure wrote:I'm pretty surprised that this has not been brought up here on VV.

Word on the street is that there is monk genocide currently taking place in Burma, with death camps and all. The dead are already reported in the thousands. There are being executed, then thrown in the jungle.

I've yet to hear an official US response to this. I'm dissappointed we aren't stepping in to do something about this.
lol

Why should the US step in? We're the awful country who went into Iraq and ruined their wonderful lives. Fucking hippokrit.

I would be a hypocrite if I supported an invasion of Iraq in order to help the population of that country. (We went there for WMDs btw, helping the people was taked on later when no WMDs were found)

However, you would be a hypocrite if you supported the Iraqi war in order to help the people, and now choose to ignore the situation in Burma.

Can you compare and contrast both situations and see how everything the current administration says about our true purpose in Iraq can be called into question (again)?

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » October 1, 2007, 3:36 pm

Spang wrote:Do we have to talk about Iraq in every current events thread? What about Burma?

I agree. However, there are going to be some cross referenceing going on for certian.

Back to stricktly Burma talk...

How about other countries? I've poked around a bit online and it dosen't appear that anyone is stepping up to the plate to do something about it, including the UN. Talking, sanctions, blah, blah. It's not good enough, given the dire situation that is unfolding right now.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » October 1, 2007, 3:38 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:Positively not, because no one seems to be reading what I wrote, I will break it down to one or two sentences.

If the entire world does not show complete gratitude and reverence every time we help someone, and keep their mouths shut when we decide to attack/whatever for any reason at all - then the entire world can go fuck themselves and deal with their own issues, their own way, without our help.

IMO, we should also give every country that owes us money 1 year from tomorrow to pay us back or risk being turned into a glass bead factory. I have had enough of everyone else's shit.

Oh we read quite fine what you wrote. Grats on having an opinion but once again you prove what an idiot you are. Not like we needed any more proof however.

You might want to look into what the US has been borrowing from foreign lenders and how much we owe.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » October 1, 2007, 3:38 pm

Spang wrote:Do we have to talk about Iraq in every current events thread? What about Burma?

It's sad that is happening there, but I hope the U.S. doesn't step in to help them or anyone else ever again.

Maybe since Ireland is so superior to the U.S. they could help the Burmese out.

But that's not what anyone wants to hear, they want the U.S. to fucking take charge because everyone else is too weak to fucking help, then once we do help they want to bastardize us for it. Ungrateful fucking pieces of trash.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » October 1, 2007, 3:40 pm

Aslanna wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:Positively not, because no one seems to be reading what I wrote, I will break it down to one or two sentences.

If the entire world does not show complete gratitude and reverence every time we help someone, and keep their mouths shut when we decide to attack/whatever for any reason at all - then the entire world can go fuck themselves and deal with their own issues, their own way, without our help.

IMO, we should also give every country that owes us money 1 year from tomorrow to pay us back or risk being turned into a glass bead factory. I have had enough of everyone else's shit.
Oh we read quite fine what you wrote. Grats on having an opinion but once again you prove what an idiot you are. Not like we needed any more proof however.

You might want to look into what the US has been borrowing from foreign lenders and how much we owe.

Grats on wasting the 30 seconds it took you to post this retarded message in response to mine, your opinion could not possibly mean any less to me for a multitude of reasons, and I already forgot what you wrote that I am responding to.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » October 1, 2007, 3:41 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:Grats on wasting the 30 seconds it took you to post this retarded message in response to mine, your opinion could not possibly mean any less to me for a multitude of reasons, and I already forgot what you wrote that I am responding to.

It apparently meant something to you as you bothered to respond. Hehe!

Nick · Post by **Nick** » October 1, 2007, 3:42 pm

Grats on wasting the 30 seconds it took you to post this retarded message in response to mine, your opinion could not possibly mean any less to me for a multitude of reasons, and I already forgot what you wrote that I am responding to.

Yes that may be so but none of that makes you any less of a dickhole.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » October 1, 2007, 3:47 pm

Fairweather Pure wrote:I agree. However, there are going to be some cross referenceing going on for certian.

Back to stricktly Burma talk...

How about other countries? I've poked around a bit online and it dosen't appear that anyone is stepping up to the plate to do something about it, including the UN. Talking, sanctions, blah, blah. It's not good enough, given the dire situation that is unfolding right now.

The cross referencing doesn't bother me but unfortunately that's not really happening in this thread. The U.S. should help other countries whenever possible, but which country do we help first? There are several countries dealing with a similar Burma-type situation.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » October 1, 2007, 3:53 pm

Nick wrote:
Grats on wasting the 30 seconds it took you to post this retarded message in response to mine, your opinion could not possibly mean any less to me for a multitude of reasons, and I already forgot what you wrote that I am responding to.
Yes that may be so but none of that makes you any less of a dickhole.

You're right, I'm an intolerant prick, and to be honest, I'm perfectly ok with that. However you (or anyone else here) pointing that out or whining about it is going to accomplish absolutely nothing, so maybe next time you can find a better use of your time than pointing out the obvious.

rhyae · Post by **rhyae** » October 1, 2007, 3:57 pm

Let China deal with it.

Post by **Sylvus** » October 1, 2007, 3:57 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:But that's not what anyone wants to hear, they want the U.S. to fucking take charge because everyone else is too weak to fucking help, then once we do help they want to bastardize us for it. Ungrateful fucking pieces of trash.

Perhaps I didn't correctly phrase my earlier comments as a question.

Do you really think that the world wants the US to step into situations only so they can bastardize us for it? Or do you think they've fairly given us "props" on the situations where we have done good, and could possibly be fairly judging us for those situations (or the one, current situation in particular) where we have screwed up?

I believe it is the second. We went into Iraq for the wrong reasons initially, handled it badly since then, and are viewed in a bad light as a result. Constantly providing different justifications and not acknowledging mistakes or failures that we have made only compound the problem.

It's sad that is happening there, but I hope the U.S. doesn't step in to help them or anyone else ever again.

I hope just the opposite, and that the next time we step in and help someone we do it right and regain some of the respect that we've lost, and at the same time improve the quality of life for the world in general. But then again, I'm not a total asshole, just to those people that don't appear to be swayed by reason.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » October 1, 2007, 4:03 pm

Fairweather Pure wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Fairweather Pure wrote:I'm pretty surprised that this has not been brought up here on VV.

Word on the street is that there is monk genocide currently taking place in Burma, with death camps and all. The dead are already reported in the thousands. There are being executed, then thrown in the jungle.

I've yet to hear an official US response to this. I'm dissappointed we aren't stepping in to do something about this.
lol

Why should the US step in? We're the awful country who went into Iraq and ruined their wonderful lives. Fucking hippokrit.
I would be a hypocrite if I supported an invasion of Iraq in order to help the population of that country. (We went there for WMDs btw, helping the people was taked on later when no WMDs were found)

However, you would be a hypocrite if you supported the Iraqi war in order to help the people, and now choose to ignore the situation in Burma.

Can you compare and contrast both situations and see how everything the current administration says about our true purpose in Iraq can be called into question (again)?

I'm completely in favor of going there and helping out if it makes sense for us to do so. Problem is, we will end up being called the bad guy in the end. But, our shoulders are big, we can handle the bad press.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » October 1, 2007, 4:12 pm

It doesn't matter what other countries think of the U.S. The United States is the most powerful country on earth. If it was a woman, it'd be a big tittied woman. The U.S. helps people. That's what we do.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » October 1, 2007, 4:15 pm

Sylvus wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:But that's not what anyone wants to hear, they want the U.S. to fucking take charge because everyone else is too weak to fucking help, then once we do help they want to bastardize us for it. Ungrateful fucking pieces of trash.
Perhaps I didn't correctly phrase my earlier comments as a question.

Do you really think that the world wants the US to step into situations only so they can bastardize us for it? Or do you think they've fairly given us "props" on the situations where we have done good, and could possibly be fairly judging us for those situations (or the one, current situation in particular) where we have screwed up?

I believe it is the second. We went into Iraq for the wrong reasons initially, handled it badly since then, and are viewed in a bad light as a result. Constantly providing different justifications and not acknowledging mistakes or failures that we have made only compound the problem.

It's sad that is happening there, but I hope the U.S. doesn't step in to help them or anyone else ever again.
I hope just the opposite, and that the next time we step in and help someone we do it right and regain some of the respect that we've lost, and at the same time improve the quality of life for the world in general. But then again, I'm not a total asshole, just to those people that don't appear to be swayed by reason.

I believe it is both, but it seems like it has been the first option more and more frequently lately.

Let me try and make an analogy here without butchering my point too terribly:

Say you are a fairly wealthy kid, and you are in college. Your friends are not as well off as you and can only afford to get small meals three times a day and don't have any money left over. You decide because money isn't an issue to you that you are gonna buy pizza for and booze for the people that hang out at your dorm on the weekends and everyone is pretty grateful for what you do for them...

But there is this one kid that is a prick, he bitches about the pizza being sausage because he wants plain cheese and bitches that you bought gin when he only likes to drink vodka. Now, none of your other friends feel it is their place to tell this guy that he is being a total douche and should knock it off, and this same thing keeps happening every weekend.

At first you are annoyed by it but just decide to ignore the problem and continue to treat people to food & booze when they are at your place, but it starts to bug you a little more each time it happens. Next thing you know you are going into your junior year in college and this ungrateful douche is still going strong, finally at some point you are probably just going to say fuck it, I'm done buying shit for people, I've had enough of the bitching.

Now this one whiney douche just ruined it for all your other friends that were loving the free food & booze that you seemed to have a never-ending supply of. You feel like you have made the right decision because you shouldn't have to endure his constant shit, but there's a problem;

Your other friends have gotten so used to this free shit that they almost expect it, and instead of aiming their anger at the guy that caused you to stop supplying them, they aim it at you for taking it away. You decide this is ridiculous and you really shouldn't have to deal with it so you tell them all to piss off.

Long winded I realize, but this is where I feel things are at now. We have been helping, or at least trying to help these people all over the world that can't help themselves for a long time now, and no matter what we always end up getting shit on one way or another. It's time to just let everyone fend for themselves.

Ashur · Post by **Ashur** » October 1, 2007, 4:27 pm

Vodka > Gin, He was right to bitch!

Spankes · Post by **Spankes** » October 1, 2007, 5:06 pm

A very good friend of mine co-founded the US Campaign for Burma and has worked on easing the human rights violations over there. Obviously, it is a very busy time right now and could use help. Anyway, check it out if you are interested in helping.

Gzette · Post by **Gzette** » October 1, 2007, 11:11 pm

The United States public debt, commonly called the national debt, gross federal debt or U.S. government debt, is the amount of money owed by the United States federal government to creditors who hold U.S. Debt Instruments. As of September 2007, the total U.S. federal public debt was $5.6 trillion.

from wikipedia

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » October 1, 2007, 11:50 pm

Spang: I can't think of many countries in which something like what's going on in Myanmar is going on right now.

I wouldn't mind military intervention, although I'm not sure if it should be the United States who intervenes. I think this situation requires multilateral military action. It would be a great opportunity for us to collaborate with China militarily. Or maybe an international organization will step up to the plate and prove that they're worth a shit.

Nations need to get over the you-or-me mentality when it comes to intervention and cooperate. Cooperation will temper the ability of any nation to act in a particularly self-interested fashion and also serve to deepen ties between the intervening nations, which can hopefully lead to increased peace in the long term. This would be a great opportunity for the world to take a step toward that future.

Nick wrote:(P.p.s - http://www.economist.com/media/pdf/QUALITY_OF_LIFE.pdf - awesome)

Humorous note about the methodology: One of the inputs into that index is divorce rate. Ireland has a much lower divorce rate than the United States. If you omit this variable, the United States tops Ireland, which is in first place as things are.

Markulas · Post by **Markulas** » October 2, 2007, 1:11 am

The US actually gives a lesser percent of their GDP to foreign aid than other industrialized countries.

Here's an interesting link if you're interested in reading some interesting facts about our aid to foreign countries.

http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelate ... Militarism

Since we spend more on the military than all other countries combined we seem to be able to "help out" in fighting quite a bit tho!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 2, 2007, 2:40 am

Fuck that. Let some other fucking country go help them. It's BURMA. Even the Canadians could handle this one...or do they need Americas help?

People love to bitch about the U.S...let some other country save the day. Set an example instead of point to the U.S. who's already busy securing the West's oil supply.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » October 2, 2007, 2:40 am

Sueven wrote:Spang: I can't think of many countries in which something like what's going on in Myanmar is going on right now.

I wouldn't mind military intervention, although I'm not sure if it should be the United States who intervenes. I think this situation requires multilateral military action. It would be a great opportunity for us to collaborate with China militarily. Or maybe an international organization will step up to the plate and prove that they're worth a shit.

Nations need to get over the you-or-me mentality when it comes to intervention and cooperate. Cooperation will temper the ability of any nation to act in a particularly self-interested fashion and also serve to deepen ties between the intervening nations, which can hopefully lead to increased peace in the long term. This would be a great opportunity for the world to take a step toward that future.

I agree completely. My only question (to anyone) is that other countries (Rwanda and Darfur come to mind) are experiencing similar situations and have been for a much longer time period. Which atrocity does the U.S. intervene in first and why?

Nick · Post by **Nick** » October 2, 2007, 3:29 am

edit: need coffee, couldnt be arsed.

Drolgin Steingrinder · October 2, 2007, 8:09 am

Gzette wrote:
The United States public debt, commonly called the national debt, gross federal debt or U.S. government debt, is the amount of money owed by the United States federal government to creditors who hold U.S. Debt Instruments. As of September 2007, the total U.S. federal public debt was $5.6 trillion.
from wikipedia

Just to clear things up:
There's a major difference between public debt and gross external debt. You're talking about the debt that is, in effect, owed to holders of treasury securities (almost half of which is the US government itself through the Federal Reserve), not what's directly owed in loans to individuals, nations and companies.

The gross external debt of the US is a paltry $ 10,303,546,000,000 as of June 2006 (according to the US treasury - http://www.treas.gov/tic/external-debt.html)...clearly you see Funk's point?

Acies · Post by **Acies** » October 2, 2007, 8:49 am

You know, a lot of you fucking sicken me. People (ala: human beings) are being slaughtered by the thousands, yet what do you do? You would seriously sit there and take a platform of "let them die" because you are tired of hearing people complain about the U.S. and want petty revenge at the cost of innocent lives? No empathy, no outrage, no anger for these people? If this is the point you would prove to the world, then guess what: they are probably right.

I have never had faith in our present executive branch. However, if Bush is even half of a man he would plan out intervention as quickly as possible and facilitate it. I hope he can do at least that.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » October 2, 2007, 9:08 am

It sounds to me like the UN should be intervening. I guess we see just how speedy and competent that organization really is.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » October 2, 2007, 9:08 am

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:It sounds to me like the UN should be intervening. I guess we see just how speedy and competent that organization really is.

They sent a group in to observe before the violence started...

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » October 2, 2007, 10:14 am

Obviously no policy is going to get made based on conversations on VV, but a lot more would be accomplished by asking "how could we work together to solve this problem" rather than saying "hahahah, you pussy bitches haven't fixed the problem yet."

From all sides.

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » October 2, 2007, 1:13 pm

Its easy to want to just dismiss the Funkmasters of the world, especially when they have such a distorted view of their own power and place in the world, but I think when you combine it with the point Spang made about the number of situations existing or developing, it changes the dynamic a bit. What is gained by intervening when you can't affect long term change and the next crisis is already reaching the same point? How do you say Burma/Myanmar is worth pissing off the local gov't but Sudan/Darfur is not? Especially with the political disincentives: the possibility of casualties in your own citizens, the resentment in some parts of the international community born partially of the fear that if they fuck up, you could be replacing their gov't next. And lets be honest: to stop these types of actions we're talking police actions that may stop short of regime change but still involve a substantial curtailing of governmental powers of the offending nation(s).

We, in the West, talk of our aspirations that everyone should be equal and have their human rights respected, but how far are we willing to go to see that through... and is it desired in places where we would need to put boots on the ground? Sure, the immediate victims and their families/friends may be grateful, but if we have to sustain a presence to ensure things don't regress, how long before the populace, instigated by the resentment of their castrated or deposed gov'ts start to view our liberators as occupiers?

I'll be honest and say up front that I think these situations are coming about with increasing frequency, in large part because of our (humanity's) population reaching and in some localized areas exceeding the resource bases needed to sustain that population. Ethnic cleansing, jihads, famines like those in Eastern Africa are all symptons of the same disease. With the rate of population growth in the developing world I don't think it is sustainable growth which will mean increased competition for those limited resources. We in the West are going to have to make some tough choices in terms of how our nations deal with the entire situation, in terms of devoting increasingly larger amounts of our own resource bases to trying to stem the tide or isolating ourselves from it. It goes against our base philosophy in some ways but I think right now humanity is like rabbits at the top of the 7 year cycle: all we're missing is a natural predator aside from ourselves.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » October 2, 2007, 7:35 pm

I think Wulf's right. War, ethnic cleansing, whatever you want to call it has been a natural response to lack of resources and no predators. Or simple greed.

Easiest solution to our looming greenhouse/energy/water crisis is a war.

One way or the other we're going to get a culling in the next 50 years, probably better war than deprivation.

Oh, and Funkmasterr's still a whiney bitch for wanting to be thanked for steamrolling Iraq for their resourses, and pretending it was about helping out the poor oppressed Iraqis.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » October 3, 2007, 12:46 am

We'll never do anything about Myanmar because it's full of yellow and brown people and not oil.

The Myanmar thing is different than the Sudan because Buddhists are mostly rational, whereas I haven't seen many sub-Saharan Africans who even orbit rational.

Somali · Post by **Somali** » October 3, 2007, 10:50 am

Markulas wrote:The US actually gives a lesser percent of their GDP to foreign aid than other industrialized countries.
Here's an interesting link if you're interested in reading some interesting facts about our aid to foreign countries.
http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelate ... Militarism

True, but you'll notice when you look at that same page; from a pure dollar figure we pony up almost twice as much as the next closest country. It could be argued that we cut back on international spending to prevent incurring an even larger national debt. Hell, if we cut back a little further we could pay off our national debt a bit sooner.