*EDIT** The loony at parity with US$ Sept 20th 2007.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » September 19, 2007, 8:04 am

This is the first time in my lifetime this has happened. Aside from the shambles this is leaving our natural ressources sector in at the moment (lumber etc), I wonder what type of positives this will bring.

http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2007/09/18/dollarise.html

*edit*
It happened today. 1$ CDN == 1$ US.

Simply amazing. And to say I had gotten used to the jokes...

http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2007/09/2 ... ml?ref=rss

VariaVespasa · Post by **VariaVespasa** » September 19, 2007, 8:26 am

I am canuck, hear me spend!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » September 19, 2007, 12:28 pm

Is this hurting snowshoe sales to U.S. customers in Alaska?

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » September 20, 2007, 10:08 am

While this makes me a little happy just out of spite for all the canadian money jokes, this isn't really a good thing. It's going to be a lot more than the natural resource markets that are hurt by this. The fact that american money went further up here was a big draw for a lot of companies and if this keeps up we'll see a lot of employers pull out I'm afraid.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » September 20, 2007, 10:27 am

Pulling out as a kneejerk reaction would be a stupid move however if this were to keep for 1-2 years it might be a bad thing.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » September 20, 2007, 10:47 am

Dregor Thule wrote:While this makes me a little happy just out of spite for all the canadian money jokes, this isn't really a good thing. It's going to be a lot more than the natural resource markets that are hurt by this. The fact that american money went further up here was a big draw for a lot of companies and if this keeps up we'll see a lot of employers pull out I'm afraid.

If the canadian dollar stays above the US dollar for an extended period of time (which looks likely), you'll see the reverse. You should experience an increase of exports into the US, and you should finally get a little relief on the shortage of skilled trade labourers. You'll also see an increased margin on all US imports.

Of course, the US doesn't reciprocate very well on NAFTA, so there's a chance that they give back even less (than they do now) of their half of the deal, which would bring you down with them.

On a more personal level, it would be a good time to travel in the states, as your money will now go farther!

Knarlz · Post by **Knarlz** » September 20, 2007, 11:52 am

The Canadian dollar is up over 50%!!! (vs. the $US) since, 15 Nov 2000, 0.64 US dollars (noon) 0.6449 (1.5507)
This was it's peek low in a 20? year drop. (A quick search only found 10 years of rates)
What happened in Nov 2000?
Someone started blowing the US 5 trillion surplus and now has a 9 trillion (and counting) deficite. (That is just the "on the books" money, the "off the books" money i.e. social security, medicare/ medicade unfunded obligations, has also seen a 2 digit trillion $ blow-up)
It's not just the Canadian dollar is up but the US dollar is down vs. every currency in the world that is not pinned to the dollar or fixed (china).

Dubya has thrown us all under the bus and the wheels will come off soon.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » September 20, 2007, 11:53 am

Knarlz wrote:Dubya has thrown us all under the bus and the wheels will come off soon.

Oh jesus fucking jew christ, here we go again.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » September 20, 2007, 1:07 pm

You Canadians are really getting ripped off on the price of comics now!

The strip clubs along the border are going to go out of business when Americans figure out they're actually giving away dollar for dollar when throwing money on stage.

Can $ vs U.S $ is a wild ride. It's been as low as .60 and now 1.00. Need some stability!

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » September 20, 2007, 1:17 pm

Weak greenback + rising value of oil = strong canadian dollar. I won't be surprised at all when the loonie rises above parity. I still don't think it's a good thing on the whole, but I am tickled by the idea of going to the states on the cheap. You'd be like our Mexico!

Hesten · Post by **Hesten** » September 20, 2007, 2:07 pm

The US$ compared to the danish Krone, is at its lowest in 20 years

. It might hurt the global echonomy, but good when i need to buy stuff

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » September 20, 2007, 2:15 pm

Knarlz wrote:The Canadian dollar is up over 50%!!! (vs. the $US) since, 15 Nov 2000, 0.64 US dollars (noon) 0.6449 (1.5507)
This was it's peek low in a 20? year drop. (A quick search only found 10 years of rates)
What happened in Nov 2000?
Someone started blowing the US 5 trillion surplus and now has a 9 trillion (and counting) deficite. (That is just the "on the books" money, the "off the books" money i.e. social security, medicare/ medicade unfunded obligations, has also seen a 2 digit trillion $ blow-up)
It's not just the Canadian dollar is up but the US dollar is down vs. every currency in the world that is not pinned to the dollar or fixed (china).

Dubya has thrown us all under the bus and the wheels will come off soon.

Yes, these things are true and a large contributing factor to our current woes. It's going to get worse before it gets better.

Post by **Sylvus** » September 20, 2007, 2:49 pm

I bet this is really bad for Casino Windsor.

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » September 20, 2007, 4:36 pm

Truant wrote:If the canadian dollar stays above the US dollar for an extended period of time (which looks likely), you'll see the reverse. You should experience an increase of exports into the US, and you should finally get a little relief on the shortage of skilled trade labourers. You'll also see an increased margin on all US imports.

Thats not really true. Like the US, our manufacturing sectors have been downsized/outsourced to 3rd world countries where labour is cheaper, and a lot of our economy is heavily reliant on the export of resources to other markets but the US is our largest single partner. Something like 65% of all Canadian trade is with the US and we already have a multi-billion dollar trade surplus with you. A higher Cdn dollar means our commodities are more expensive for US companies/consumers and thus less attractive. It won't matter a lot in the case of sectors like the energy industry because you need our oil/natural gas/electricity to support your infrastructure, but things like aggricultural, lumber and mining exports to the US could take a severe beating. I've heard some economists state that our "Ideal" currency would be about 85-90 cents US: strong enough to not discourage note holders but weak enough to capitalize on our export economy.

The "brain drain" of skilled personnel to the US that has been going on for a couple decades may ease up with a higher Canadian currency and the price of vacationing in the US is definately cheaper than it was but the economic side, if this is protracted isn't that cheery for Canadians.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » September 20, 2007, 5:31 pm

Wulfran wrote:
Truant wrote:If the canadian dollar stays above the US dollar for an extended period of time (which looks likely), you'll see the reverse. You should experience an increase of exports into the US, and you should finally get a little relief on the shortage of skilled trade labourers. You'll also see an increased margin on all US imports.
Thats not really true. Like the US, our manufacturing sectors have been downsized/outsourced to 3rd world countries where labour is cheaper, and a lot of our economy is heavily reliant on the export of resources to other markets but the US is our largest single partner. Something like 65% of all Canadian trade is with the US and we already have a multi-billion dollar trade surplus with you. A higher Cdn dollar means our commodities are more expensive for US companies/consumers and thus less attractive. It won't matter a lot in the case of sectors like the energy industry because you need our oil/natural gas/electricity to support your infrastructure, but things like aggricultural, lumber and mining exports to the US could take a severe beating. I've heard some economists state that our "Ideal" currency would be about 85-90 cents US: strong enough to not discourage note holders but weak enough to capitalize on our export economy.

The "brain drain" of skilled personnel to the US that has been going on for a couple decades may ease up with a higher Canadian currency and the price of vacationing in the US is definately cheaper than it was but the economic side, if this is protracted isn't that cheery for Canadians.

Yeah I posted that this morning, and it occured to me while driving to school that I actually reversed that. ><

You'll see more imports, not exports. And yeah, since your economy is largely centered on US exports...that could hurt. However, this is a great opportunity for your multinationals to step up and begin trading with other nations, and take a piece of the pie that the US is losing as a result. If sucessful, that would also leave your country's economy less dependant on the US. Growth and stability! Win-win! Of course, I'm just an amateur when it comes to economics, I know it's not that simple. But it seems like a good direction to pursue.

The skilled labour I was referring to was more in the construction sector. Particularly with the largescale infrastructure being constructed in Saskatchewan and Alberta for oil purposes. I know that they are offering big incentives for welders, electricians, etc. etc. So much so that I've continually plant the seed in my father's head to get his travelling papers and go work up there. The increasing value of your currency only sweetens the deal. But I know that it extends to many, many other areas (especially health care iirc).

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » September 20, 2007, 6:25 pm

Digg Comments on the subject:

http://digg.com/business_finance/Canadi ... ack_report

Post by **pyrella** » September 20, 2007, 6:42 pm

If only all our donations in canadian money came now instead of then!

P.S. - Canadians donate now!

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » September 20, 2007, 7:36 pm

The greenback is weak against everything, even our plastic play money has been doing great against it in the Bush era:

Code: Select all

Country Unit    2001/02 2002/03 2003/04 2004/05 2005/06 2006/07
USA      Dollar  0.5236   0.5848   0.7139   0.7533   0.7473   0.7864

At the moment it's about 0.86 and the 07/08 average looks like being well over 0.80

Means I have to direct import a lot of stuff, the retailers still seem to think the rate is 0.50

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » September 20, 2007, 7:42 pm

If I couldn't pirate all the fetish pr0n movies from your countries I'd be broke!

On the flip side, maybe the U.S can start exporting some Mail Order Brides!

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » September 20, 2007, 7:49 pm

pyrella wrote:If only all our donations in canadian money came now instead of then!

P.S. - Canadians donate now!

Like I'm gonna donate to a place located in a third world country like America!

Post by **pyrella** » September 20, 2007, 9:08 pm

Wait...isn't that a reason to donate?

Maybe we can get Sally Struthers to cry for us a lil

Hesten · Post by **Hesten** » September 21, 2007, 1:30 pm

Winnow wrote:If I couldn't pirate all the fetish pr0n movies from your countries I'd be broke!

On the flip side, maybe the U.S can start exporting some Mail Order Brides!

Just make sure its some of the cute ones, could be an interesting experiment to try and ship a 250 pound woman to europe

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » September 22, 2007, 12:29 pm

Some comments about the CAN$ vs US$

We as Canadians now have to start asking why, if our dollar is at par, is gas about .70/litre in the US while it is 1.06+ here in Canada? Especially since our gas mostly comes from within our own country! We need to ask why all goods in the US are still about 30%+ cheaper than here if our dollar is the same!? We need to make some adjustments here in Canada now otherwise people will give their money to the US instead of bolstering our own economy more.

As a Canadian we will always have to concern ourselves with the American economy. For the foreseeable future they will be the elephant in the room. The question becomes, will the US economy begin to take down parts of the Canadian economy. Obviously parts of the manufacturing sector are going to be hit hard (Magna, Bombardier) if the US really starts to slow. Even Alberta could start to feel a pinch if the US sees a marginal decline in oil demand (see massive housing forecloses). Down the line, for Canada the US will always be tied to our future.

Some Canadian stocks I bought 5 years ago are traded on both Canadian TSX exchange and the Nasdaq. Back then a $10 US stock was valued around $15 CAD$. As the Canadian dollar appreciated in value since 2002, the CAD $ trading value of the stock kept dropping until now the price on the TSX is the same as the Nasdaq price. Some of my stocks dropped nearly 30% in value just on the currency change. Any outside-US company that wants to list their company stock on an American exchange may think they are gaining liquidity but in fact, unless their currency is tied to the US, their company stock is going down in their local currency -- it's a bad deal.

Now, if you are an American and had bought Canadian stocks in 2002, you came out ahead twice as much -- the Canadian stocks (especially the banks, oils, golds, potash, uranium, railroads) rocketed up 30%+ and you got an extra 50% gain as well just on the currency shift.

This is an opportunity for Canadians to start buying some US companies' stock while our CAD$ can buy more. If the US goes down, Canada won't be far behind and we always get hit much worse.

Here come the Americans!

If you're going to move to Canada, then hit up Alberta. I live in Grande Prairie, AB, pretty much a rigging city. Jobs are easy to get.. almost too easy, actually. If you get a job at McDonalds, you'll start out at $15 an hour. Go to school and take a trade as let's say, a mechanic, you're looking at $45+ an hour. I've met a good dozen Americans that have moved up to this city just for the money (plus they all hate Bush). I'm pretty sure it was rated the fourth top place to live in Canada in Forbes Magazine. Getting a green card to live in Canada is apparently very easy, give it a shot. This province is the land of opportunity, in my opinion, in all of North America.

Another "Here come the Americans" comment:

As long as the greenback is the world's reserve currency, America can tax the rest of the world through monetary inflation. If you have not noticed, oil and other commodities have been rising over the last couple of years RELATIVE TO DOLLARS. And as long as major commodities are sold in dollars, other nations need to invest in dollars to trade in them. In the short term, there is not much the rest of the world can do since our military is pre-eminent. In the long term, the lazier, dumber, and fatter America gets from its decadence ways of taxing the rest of the world so we can live high on the hog, the worse our manufacturing and technology base becomes which will eventually have an eroding impact on our military and military technology (not to mention our infrastructure which can be attacked from within via terrorism).

Right now America has it great relative to the Chinese who slave away in dirty factories to make just about everything people get cheaply at Wal-Mart, while we give them useless government bonds and a bunch of monopoly money in return. The Chinese are getting screwed hard in the short-term, but in the long-term we are the ones who are foolish. The demographics of China unfortunately are really bad as it is said that China will "get old before it gets rich", so they might have a window of opportunity to challenge the United States in the next decade if we are totally sleeping at the wheel. Otherwise, they will have the same problems as Europe, Japan, Korea, Russia and other western nations which have a birth rate that is below replacement level and an aging population that needs to be cared for. America has similiar problems, but the demographics are not quite as bad because of immigration, however, the net benefits versus the net costs of the most recent wave of immigrants (legal and illegal) in the last decade is highly debatable so things might not be as rosy for us relative to the social chaos that will likely ensue in Europe and other areas of the world that demographically have no future ahead for them.

One could make the argument that population decline is good for humanity in general, but it is really bad for any individual nation relative to other nations if there is not an active policy of getting rid of the old people once they can no longer be productive. That might sound harsh or cold, but for every old person who doesn't work, there is another younger person having to do the job of two adults, not to mention they need to make enough after-tax income to support a family of at least three people, otherwise the demographic problems related to a low-birth rate only compound over time.

Of course Canada has its own problems as well, including demographics. If you have been to Toronto lately, every time you drive a few miles, you might as well be in a different country. The whole city is quite bizarre to say the least. Lots of great food, lots of interesting cultural pockets from around the world, but nevertheless Balkanized to the extreme. Other cities like Vancouver have similiar issues where you have land up north, but a country that is about as unified and significant as Belgium. You have to actually go out in the country to actually find someone with an authentic Canadian accent.

On another note, the last time I was in Canada (about a year ago), I noticed how incredibly polite people were and even though the teenagers had weird haircuts and exotic clothes like teenagers in every western country, they didn't seem to have a big attitude like you see among many American teenagers. It really seemed like a foreign country, even though everyone spoke English which I suppose is a good thing because every nation needs to have a coherent national identity or else it simply cannot function.

Canada has unfortunately gotten a free ride from America thanks to geography. Nobody is going to invade Canada so long as the United States is around (and America would likely be in armed revolt against its own country if the government ever took up arms against Canada), and Canada is largely buffered from the immigration pressures of Latin America which are causing economic, political, and social instability in the United States and will continue to do so as long as America treats China and India more favorably than its own neighbors. Eventually, the immigration pressures in the United States will push northward where Americans displaced by the underground economy of illegal immigration and offshoring will move to Canada where the pay is better and the cities are largely safer (especially for skilled jobs). California as large and economically vibrant as it is today is rapidly becoming a failed state. Silicon Valley and Google and all those other companies will eventually be forced to move out of California to areas in America and Canada where the business climate is better and the cost of living is not so ridiculously high. These highly skilled and high economic value workers would be highly prized by Canadians so as Latin Americans displace Americans out of the economy in America, expect Americans to move north to Canada in droves in the coming years.

Doom and gloom for America:

As others have mentioned, this is a case of the dollar falling relative to everyone else, fairly consistantly for over a year now. Given the numbers its possible to predict what is likely to be seen in 2008 and 2009 if things don't change significantly.

A line fit through the dollar index and oil prices say that in 2006 the dollar index (its value against a basket of currencies) was 86 and oil was approx $60 a barrel.

By 2007 it had fallen to 80 and oil had risen to $80 a barrel (dollar index is actually about 78 at the moment). However for those outside the US, the impact of that devaluation was to effectively price oil at $74.50 in 2006 dollars (eg US is effectively paying more than others).

Follow that forward to 2008 and the trend says the dollar index will be ~74 and the oil price $100 a barrel (headlines ahead). However everyone else will see that as oil at $86.50, a good $13 difference in effective cost. The exchange rate with the pound will be $2.15 : £1 and $1: CDN$ 0.93

2009 is even worse. The dollar index falls to 69 and oil is at $120 a barrel, which is effectively $96.50 for everyone else. The exchange rate with the pound will be $2.30 : £1 and $1: CDN$ 0.86.

In practical terms this is a best case scenario. What is likely to happen is there will be a run on the dollar during this period and the trend downwards will steepen. At the same time the rise in oil price will fall disproportionately on US as they get a double whammy of currency devaluation and fast rising energy costs (without the cushion of taxes). This will help others since the progressive mismatch in oil supply:demand will be met with demand destruction in the US as people realise they cannot afford higher pump prices (average $3.50 in 2008, $4.20 in 2009).

If the last comment happens, I see some major upheaval as $4.00+/gallon would cause chaos in the U.S. The cost of food and everything else would skyrocket. There's a critical level where, if passed, will cause everything to collapse.

Five more years and the shit hits the fan. Enjoy them! (and I don't just mean for Americans)

Midnyte_Ragebringer · September 25, 2007, 4:31 pm

This thread should be in the Finance forum.

Soreali · Post by **Soreali** » September 25, 2007, 5:47 pm

Hi Cartalas...

Midnyte_Ragebringer · September 25, 2007, 5:48 pm

Soreali wrote:Hi Cartalas...

Your reaction proves my point. Thank you Sor.

Soreali · Post by **Soreali** » September 25, 2007, 5:51 pm

Double post ftw!

Soreali · Post by **Soreali** » September 25, 2007, 5:53 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Soreali wrote:Hi Cartalas...
Your reaction proves my point. Thank you Sor.

What point is that Mid? I didnt see any attempt to make a point in the half dozen threads you typed this bullshit in. I just saw a spinning image of a Cartalas post. Why dont you fill me in.

By the way, it was quite cute how you chose to post in every topic but the one started by you...so clever!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » August 11, 2008, 10:22 am

So the loony was worth more than the almighty US dollar for what, 2 months?

go go $$ greenbacks! $$

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » August 11, 2008, 10:44 am

US $ made a serious gain last week. I'm not sure what drove the gain.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » August 11, 2008, 11:11 am

back to life... back to reality.

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » August 11, 2008, 12:27 pm

9/20/2007 never forget

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » August 11, 2008, 12:31 pm

LOL. Was fun while it lasted. We're still not doing too shabilly today at 0.93$ on the dollar.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · August 11, 2008, 10:17 pm

OMFG!!!! Things are getting worse every day. We need CHANGE we can count on!!!! Save us Messiah! SAVE US!!!!

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » August 11, 2008, 10:55 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:OMFG!!!! Things are getting worse every day. We need CHANGE we can count on!!!! Save us Messiah! SAVE US!!!!

For THE guy that was suggesting you shouldn't question your government, ever, but have FAITH in the president and give him unconditional support, it's HILLARIOUS that you are trying to project your irrational voting process onto everyone else.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · August 11, 2008, 11:49 pm

Zaelath wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:OMFG!!!! Things are getting worse every day. We need CHANGE we can count on!!!! Save us Messiah! SAVE US!!!!
For THE guy that was suggesting you shouldn't question your government, ever, but have FAITH in the president and give him unconditional support, it's HILLARIOUS that you are trying to project your irrational voting process onto everyone else.

I never said you shouldn't question your government. That pretty much invalidates your entire point.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » August 12, 2008, 12:44 am

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:I never said you shouldn't question your government. That pretty much invalidates your entire point.

Thanks for your riveting commentary.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » August 12, 2008, 2:37 am

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Zaelath wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:OMFG!!!! Things are getting worse every day. We need CHANGE we can count on!!!! Save us Messiah! SAVE US!!!!
For THE guy that was suggesting you shouldn't question your government, ever, but have FAITH in the president and give him unconditional support, it's HILLARIOUS that you are trying to project your irrational voting process onto everyone else.
I never said you shouldn't question your government. That pretty much invalidates your entire point.

Go fuck yourself. I could dig up plenty of posts that dribbled out of your slack jaw saying you should just go ahead and support the troops/president/government/etc.

If you mean you never said exactly the quote: "you shouldn't question your government", perhaps, but that's completely moot since it's exactly what blind support implies. The other thing is FAITH. You mealy-mouthed hypocrite.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » August 12, 2008, 9:13 am

Zaelath wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Zaelath wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:OMFG!!!! Things are getting worse every day. We need CHANGE we can count on!!!! Save us Messiah! SAVE US!!!!
For THE guy that was suggesting you shouldn't question your government, ever, but have FAITH in the president and give him unconditional support, it's HILLARIOUS that you are trying to project your irrational voting process onto everyone else.
I never said you shouldn't question your government. That pretty much invalidates your entire point.
Go fuck yourself. I could dig up plenty of posts that dribbled out of your slack jaw saying you should just go ahead and support the troops/president/government/etc.

If you mean you never said exactly the quote: "you shouldn't question your government", perhaps, but that's completely moot since it's exactly what blind support implies. The other thing is FAITH. You mealy-mouthed hypocrite.

You're right. Every time things go a little bad in life I'll join in on the hysteria next time, instead of watching my spending and waiting for things to get better. How silly of me.