How bad is the Big 10?

masteen · Post by **masteen** » September 15, 2007, 9:03 pm

Wisconsin tried REAL hard to lose to the mighty Citadel, and Minnesota DID lose to Florida Atlantic (that's right Florida ATLANTIC, the sixth best team in the state), and Meeshigen is in shambles (but better than Notre Dame, GOOD JORB!). It's not like OSU and PSU are world beaters, so their usual bullshit excuse of having the best 2 teams in the country at the top is nullified.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » September 15, 2007, 9:22 pm

MSU 3-0 woo woo

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » September 15, 2007, 10:14 pm

I think this is just a strange year all around

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » September 16, 2007, 12:44 am

Boogahz wrote:I think this is just a strange year all around

Not for the Pac Ten. They're as strong as ever. Look for USC, Cal, Oregon and ASU to lead the way! UCLA and Washington need another year.

Big question is whether USC can grab their fourth Heisman trophy in seven years. A bad year for them is finishing in the top five in the country instead of being national champions, not losing to 1-AA teams.

USC vs Florida for the National Championship seems pretty much a lock unless the Pac Ten teams spoil things for USC. It's a shame non Pact Ten teams don't have to face as tough a conference schedule.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » September 16, 2007, 12:53 am

UCLA was ranked 11...that is not "need another year" material.

Also, you show how little you know about conference schedules with your pac10 statement.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » September 16, 2007, 1:10 am

Boogahz wrote:Also, you show how little you know about conference schedules with your pac10 statement.

Explain that comment. Going into this weekend, the Pac Ten had 4 teams in the top 20 and 6 teams in the top 30. A conference that has that many highly ranked teams, comprising 20% of the national top 20 or 30, no matter how you want to view it, is going to be a tough conference to play seven games in.

UCLA was over ranked, the same an Michigan (except I doubt UCLA will lose to a 1-AA team or get blown out by Oregon at home)

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » September 16, 2007, 1:26 am

It was the green bean and potato salad that won it for Mich

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » September 16, 2007, 10:28 am

Winnow wrote:
Boogahz wrote:Also, you show how little you know about conference schedules with your pac10 statement.
Explain that comment. Going into this weekend, the Pac Ten had 4 teams in the top 20 and 6 teams in the top 30. A conference that has that many highly ranked teams, comprising 20% of the national top 20 or 30, no matter how you want to view it, is going to be a tough conference to play seven games in.

UCLA was over ranked, the same an Michigan (except I doubt UCLA will lose to a 1-AA team or get blown out by Oregon at home)

Ah hell, I just had a long reply made and then I accidentally dragged and dropped text as my mouse's low battery kicked in for some random clicks...

My overall point was that you are using the same number that you claim is not accurate to say that the Pac10 is the going to have the strongest conference schedule this year. Look at where the most undefeated teams so far this year. The Big12 and Big10(11) are tied.

1) Big12 ----------- 6
1) Big10 ----------- 6
3) Big East -------- 5
3) SEC ------------ 5
5) Pac10 ---------- 4
6) ACC ------------ 2
7) C-USA ---------- 1
7) WAC ----------- 1
7) Mountain West - 1

Does this mean that I think that the Big10 or 12 will have the strongest Conference schedules this year? No. Conference games are not the same as non-conference games. Rankings do not matter when it comes to a conference game. History does. Blowouts become less likely as teams will step up and start playing on another level when their games "count."

Hell, the SEC is already seven games into the conference grind. The Florida v Tennessee game is just one more example of how strange this year is. I expected Florida to win, but not like that! Picking winners this year feels tougher than it has in the past. That is one conference where I fully expect good teams to be ground apart and knocked out of the BCS Bowl picture.

So, pick your stat. Do you want to go by rankings? Wins? Conference wins? I see two, maybe three contenders in the Pac10 this year, but that does not give it the strongest conference schedule. This year has been screwed up when it comes to the smaller conferences (hell, even 1-AA!) and perennial powder-puffs within conferences. It's too bad those smaller conference winners cannot get automatic BCS bowl invites. Not knowing what craziness can happen is making it a much more enjoyable year to be a college football fan!

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » September 16, 2007, 11:35 am

It's quite obvious that winnow has no clue about what he is talking about. It's just more annoying because instead of harping on one team all year, he chose to go with a whole conference to carry on about.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » September 16, 2007, 12:01 pm

Here's what's hilarious about this:

Winnow is claiming that the Pac Ten has the toughest conference schedules because the Pac Ten has 6 teams ranked in the top 30, and each Pac Ten team has to play 7 in-conference game.

Now, I think that this is a shitty methodology and doesn't do much to compare the relative difficulty of conference schedules.

But even on its own merits: The SEC has 7 teams in the top 30, and the SEC winner will need to play 9 conference games.

Next argument?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » September 16, 2007, 2:29 pm

Sueven wrote:
But even on its own merits: The SEC has 7 teams in the top 30, and the SEC winner will need to play 9 conference games.

Next argument?

I already said the SEC is the best conference although it looks like it was on the other college football thread.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » September 16, 2007, 3:52 pm

Yeah fair enough, I responded to this thread before reading that one.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » September 16, 2007, 10:25 pm

Ok, thats cute that you have to extend the rankings to the top 30 to make a point. I'll make it even more 1337 and condense it down to 10. We have 3 (you have 2(wow!!)), and have to all play each other. So, big whoop.

Meaningful shit talking comes at the end of the year. Having said that, LSU will beat who ever they face in the BCS game. Afterwards Les Miles will then head off to Michigan to replace Lloyd Carr. Then probably lose to OSU.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » September 16, 2007, 11:58 pm

I just noticed that Northwestern lost to Duke. The same Duke that hadn't won a single fucking game in three years.

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » September 17, 2007, 7:05 pm

This is the year Illinois finally takes over Big 10 football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ahem

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » September 19, 2007, 11:33 am

I don't understand the problem. Wisconsin did win against the citidal. It did its job. I came in and won. But it is frowned upon because they didn't slaughter them 77-0? It is possible for other teams to get better. Why is the press getting all in the face of the winning coach and making him feel like he lost? That's a bunch of crap. So if Florida doesn't come out on top, it was a bad year for that division? Screw all that elitest bullshit. I always root for the underdog when going up against ranked teams. (cept for the badgers of course) I thrive on the upsets. For the upset team it is just another loss over all (cept for MI) but for the team that did the upset it is monumental. Cheers for them!

This is coming from a person who is not even a college football fan.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » September 19, 2007, 11:49 am

No. They look at it as such; Citadel put up 31 points against you guys. That is a 1-AA school (remember App State? same conference), and has no business putting up those kind of numbers against a top ten team. You dropped a few spots in the polls, because if you lost you would have been dropped from them all together.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » September 19, 2007, 6:28 pm

Bubba, if you don't understand the difference between the SEC and Goddamn Div-AA football, just shut your mouth and get the fuck outta my thread before I get really angry.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » September 20, 2007, 1:31 pm

Told you I wasn't a college fan. I just like the beer.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » September 21, 2007, 10:11 pm

Adding to the mounting evidence:

Conference Power Rankings
Pac-10 gets the nod over SEC for top spot

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/w ... ml?eref=T1

Conference Power Rankings

Odds say Pac-10 gets the nod over SEC for top spot

Posted: Thursday September 20, 2007 12:46PM; Updated: Thursday September 20, 2007 3:02PM

The debate has reached the cover of this week's Sports Illustrated -- Pac-10 or SEC: Which is stronger? Colleague Austin Murphy witnessed USC's destruction of Nebraska last Saturday, but still feels the Southeastern Conference is deeper than its western counterpart. The gap has narrowed, but Kentucky's win over No. 9 Louisville went a long way toward showing the SEC's depth.

I have argued for the SEC along those same lines, but given the Pac-10 its props this season in my first three power rankings. I have been accused of being both an East Coast and West Coast homer during that time. While bias is a bit overstated by college football fans, it certainly exists, especially when debating something as ambiguous as conference strengths.

Given that, I decided to take the Pac-10-SEC debate to a neutral source -- a professional oddsmaker. These guys know their business. They're not trying to sell newspapers or magazines or gather Web site hits. They're not hoping State U. signs that running back stud. They don't sit around a tailgate and fantasize about a BCS championship for their alma mater. College football is black and white, and whatever the numbers spit out in their power rankings, that's what they go with.

For this particular exercise, I forwarded Ken White, the senior oddsmaker for Las Vegas Sports Consultants, 10 hypothetical matchups. Keep in mind that White's company sets the odds for 90 percent of the casinos in Nevada. These matchups were created by the following: The teams in the SEC and Pac-10 were ranked 1-12 and 1-10 based on SI.com's current 119. In an effort to be as balanced as possible, the SEC's sixth and seventh teams (Arkansas, Kentucky) were thrown out. So the top five teams in the SEC were matched up against the top five teams in the Pac-10, and the bottom five teams in the SEC were matched up against the bottom five teams in the Pac-10. Seems fair, right?

White then provided his line for each game, should the teams meet this Saturday on a neutral field. Here are the results:

USC over LSU by 3.
Florida over Cal by 3½.
Oregon over Alabama by 3.
South Carolina over Washington by 8½.
Arizona State over Georgia by 1.
Tennessee over Washington State by 7.
UCLA over Vanderbilt by 7.
Oregon State over Mississippi State by 7.
Auburn over Arizona by 4.
Ole Miss, Stanford is a pick-'em.

So there you have it. The Pac-10 squeaks out a 5-4-1 record in these 10 matchups. Armed with this new information, and given the Pac-10's record vs. BCS foes this year is 6-2 while the SEC's is 4-3, and considering the Pac-10 won the only real matchup between the two conferences, the Pac-10 grabs the top slot this week.

1. Pac-10

Last week: 2

Skinny: UCLA's bewildering performance against Utah was a black mark, but USC's tour de force more than made up for it. We know John David Booty can pass, we know the defense can smother. But if USC's running game is as dominant as it looked against Nebraska, watch out. And don't forget about Dennis Erickson and Arizona State. The Devils are a quiet 3-0 and may have something brewing in the desert.

2. SEC

Last week: 1

Skinny: So how did the SEC slip with its only relevant nonconference action being Kentucky's stirring win in Lexington? You'll have to read above. These two conferences are truly neck-and-neck, and the hope here is that the SEC championship winner (LSU-Florida) will take on USC for the crystal football. No disrespect to Oklahoma, but that one would have Instant Classic written all over it. The conference will likely not remain here long, not with a mind-numbing seven teams in SI.com's top 20, but I have to respect the boys in Vegas for at least a week.

3. Big 12

Last week: 4

Skinny: Oklahoma might be fourth of the current Big Four when it comes to national title contenders, but it is definitely in there. The Sooners have been a machine for three weeks. Iowa State helped the conference with an upset of Iowa, Missouri and Texas Tech have looked good all season and Texas is a top 10 team, even if it hasn't played like it much yet. Oklahoma State's loss at Troy? Ouch. Texas A&M needs to beat Miami on Thursday for the Big 12 to stay comfortably in the No. 3 slot.

4. Big East

Last week: 3

Skinny: Louisville got a pass after that bizarre 58-42 performance against Middle Tennessee State. Not anymore. One of the Big East's flagship teams has been exposed. As good as Louisville is on offense, no team can be taken seriously when it gives up 40 points in back-to-back weeks. Kentucky quarterback Andre Woodson found a wide-open receiver in the final seconds for a 57-yard touchdown. Let me repeat that: wide open. South Florida's win at Auburn is still good but looks less so after Auburn's three-week span is viewed in full (should have lost to Kansas State, lost to USF, lost to Mississippi State). UConn scraped by Temple and Syracuse looked awful again. The Big East is 4-5 vs. BCS competition this season.

Wow, where's the Big Ten? Not in the top four!

They slide in at #6, just ahead of some Mountain conference.

5. ACC
6. Big Ten
7. Mountain West
8. WAC
9. Conference USA
10. Sun Belt
11. Mid-American

----

So there you have it. A few people are living in the past! (especially the #6, not-even-in-the-top-five-conferences-in-the-nation, Big Ten)

The SEC is neck and neck with the mighty Pac Ten though.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » September 21, 2007, 10:23 pm

Not a surprise since the Pac10 (USC) is mediamonkey territory

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » September 21, 2007, 11:35 pm

Boogahz wrote:Not a surprise since the Pac10 (USC) is mediamonkey territory

Guess you didn't read the quoted article! It had nothing to do with the media unless you're saying it's impossible for the media to write anything at all about USC without bias which is a joke when comparing that to the love fest there is for eastern schools. Considering that the Pac Ten has gotten no love at all in the past, it's refreshing to see someone break it down beyond USC to show that that Big Ten isn't even in the same ballpark as the Pac Ten or SEC and is struggling to stay ahead of the Mountain West Conference...who? Everyone is USC's bitch but it's not just USC as shown by oddsmakers, the PAC TEN as a conference can compete against the other best conference in the nation (SEC) and even be favored overall.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » September 22, 2007, 6:26 pm

Since it's basically an NCAA thread now:

How would you like these stats for a QB?

28 completions
35 attempts
388 yards
4 TD's
0 Int's

[Show]: at half time?

masteen · Post by **masteen** » September 23, 2007, 1:34 am

Penn State really showed what the Big 10 is all about today, playing down to the level of their opponents and shitting the bed in Michigan. JoePA and Lloyd set the wayback machine to 1945; I'm surprised they didn't have their guys wearing leather helmets.

p.s. The PAC-10 is still fucking horrible, as illustrated by the Ducks at Stanford. Stanford is not good at all, but then again, apparently neither are the Ducks. And don't even tell me what a tough place to play Stanford is.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » September 23, 2007, 1:52 am

masteen wrote: p.s. The PAC-10 is still fucking horrible, as illustrated by the Ducks at Stanford. Stanford is not good at all, but then again, apparently neither are the Ducks. And don't even tell me what a tough place to play Stanford is.

When the best conference in college football plays it's conference games, there's bound to be some surprises. It's the best conference from top to bottom so it's no cake walk for the ranked teams to play any team in the conference, unlike...

As for Penn State. That archaic offense is tailor made for Michigan to beat.

BTW, Appalachian State lost to Wofford, 42-31 today. lol

Some collage named Wofford beat the 1-AA team that beat Michigan.

Sabek · Post by **Sabek** » September 23, 2007, 9:36 am

Winnow wrote: When the best conference in college football plays it's conference games, there's bound to be some surprises. It's the best conference from top to bottom so it's no cake walk for the ranked teams to play any team in the conference, unlike...

Funny how everyone used to call bullshit when the Big Ten said the same thing years ago when it wasn't down.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » September 23, 2007, 2:23 pm

Winnow wrote:When the best conference in college football plays it's conference games, there's bound to be some surprises. It's the best conference from top to bottom so it's no cake walk for the ranked teams to play any team in the conference, unlike...

Give me a fucking break. Those pansies in Stanford are about as intimidating as a knitting circle minus the sharp metal sticks. If it wasn't for Bill Walsh writing the book on the West Coast Offense there, that place wouldn't even be on the football map.

And don't call a conference with all of 3 ranked teams the strongest top to bottom. Half of the SEC is ranked, and deservedly so. Even Kentucky and South Kackalakey have risen up, meanwhile most of the PAC-10 has been wallowing in their own crapulence for over a decade.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » September 23, 2007, 3:43 pm

masteen wrote:West Coast Offense there, that place wouldn't even be on the football map.

And don't call a conference with all of 3 ranked teams the strongest top to bottom. Half of the SEC is ranked, and deservedly so. Even Kentucky and South Kackalakey have risen up, meanwhile most of the PAC-10 has been wallowing in their own crapulence for over a decade.

Need to see performance, not rankings. Michigan and Penn State demonstrate how bogus the rankings are. The Pac Ten shows on the filed that it will blow out teams that lose to 1-AA teams while Penn State loses to them.
The SEC is right up there with the Pac Ten this year. Don't throw your past shit this way.

ASU was down 0-19 to Oregon State after the 1st Qtr. You can't overlook any Pac Ten Team...but, ASU dug deep down and summoned the Spirit of the Sun Devil to dominate the rest of the game and win 44-32.

Gooooo Deviilllllls! 4-0. With zero loses to 1-AA teams or losses to teams that lose to 1-AA teams that lose to colleges named Wofford. Big Ten is a joke. SEC and the Pac Ten are the conferences of note this year.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » September 24, 2007, 12:53 pm

You are such a fucking joke winnow, it's not funny. SEC has the best conference hands down. You fags from the Pac Ten throw up 50 points a game because no one west of the Mississippi has the slightest clue on how to play defense. Smashmouth football is what the Big Ten, and now the SEC are built upon. High scoring games aren't the norm, but they do happen, especially now a days in the SEC. SEC just runs the spread to perfection while Big Ten teams haven't the slightest clue how to stop it (READ: BCS Championship last year).

Mean while, UCLA, one of the flagship teams got anally violated at Utah last week and, Oregon struggled to Stanford quite handily. Yeah, real tough as nails conference you guys got there.

You really keep harping on some 1-AA upset like it just happened. Get the fuck over it, I enjoy cracking on UM as much as anyone, but it's just old. And don't even get me started on ASU. You will lose no less than 3 games in an overrated conference.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » September 24, 2007, 1:25 pm

Zamtuk wrote:You fags from the Pac Ten throw up 50 points a game because no one west of the Mississippi has the slightest clue on how to play defense.

How many points did Michigan put up against Oregon?

Michigan can't defend against a spread offense? Doesn't make much sense to focus on smash mouth football when teams will rip you apart using a west coast type offense.

It's not just West Coast reports saying the Pac Ten is the best or on par with the SEC. Even Sueven recognizes it. Your Big Ten isn't even in the picture. With the joke of a conference you have outside of OSU this year, I can't believe you even open your trap.

Match up the Pac Ten head to head, the same way the article above matches up the SEC vs Pac Ten and the Big Ten would be slaughtered.

OSU loses to USC
(whoever you want to rank 2nd) loses to Cal
everyone else loses to the rest of the Pac Ten

Here's a headline for you:

Erickson guides Arizona St. into rankings; Oklahoma jumps Florida

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3032998

NEW YORK -- No matter where Dennis Erickson goes, his teams usually end up in the Top 25.

Four games into his first season as Arizona State coach, Erickson has the Sun Devils unbeaten and in The Associated Press poll for the first time this season at No. 23.

Arizona State is the fourth school Erickson has guided into the rankings, along with Washington State, Miami and Oregon State. Only Lou Holtz, with five, has coached ranked teams at more schools. Holtz did it with North Carolina State, Arkansas, Minnesota, Notre Dame and South Carolina.

No. 1 Southern California and No. 2 LSU, as they have all season, head the Top 25.

USC received 43 first-place votes and 1,601 points. The Tigers got 22 first-place votes and 1,580 points. Both teams won convincingly at home Saturday. The Trojans routed Washington State 47-14 and the Tigers dominated South Carolina 28-16 on a rainy day in Baton Rouge, La.

No. 3 Oklahoma flip-flopped with No. 4 Florida after the Gators had a close call at Mississippi and the Sooner rang up their fourth blowout of the season.

West Virginia is No. 5, followed by California and Texas. Ohio State, Wisconsin and Rutgers round out the top 10.

Cincinnati moved into the rankings at No. 24, marking the first time since 1976 the Bearcats have been in the poll. Like Arizona State, Cincinnati has a new coach. Brian Kelly, who took over after last year's regular season when Mark Dantonio left for Michigan State, has the Bearcats 4-0 for the first time since 1954.

Falling out of the rankings were Louisville, which was upset 38-35 by Syracuse, and Texas A&M, beaten 34-17 by Miami on Thursday.

The Sun Devils (4-0) remained unbeaten with a 44-32 comeback victory over Oregon State on Saturday night. For the second time in three weeks, ASU faced a double-digit deficit in the first quarter and for the second time the Sun Devils stormed back for a decisive victory.

"There's no question it was a great comeback,'' Erickson said after the victory in Tempe. "We weren't on all cylinders, but one thing about it, we kept competing.''

Arizona State is Erickson's sixth stop as a college coach. He spent last season at Idaho, his second tour of duty with the Vandals, and also coached Wyoming in 1986 before moving to Washington State the next year. He won two national titles with Miami and took Oregon State to a Fiesta Bowl victory over Notre Dame.

Erickson coached in the NFL with the Seattle Seahawks and San Francisco 49ers.

No. 11 Oregon started the second 10 in the AP poll, followed by Boston College, Clemson, Kentucky and Georgia. At No. 14, Kentucky's ranking is its highest since it finished No. 6 in 1977.

South Carolina was No. 16 and Virginia Tech, South Florida, Hawaii and Missouri completed the top 20.

No. 21 Penn State dropped 11 spots after a 14-9 loss to Michigan and No. 22 Alabama fell six spots after losing 26-23 in overtime to Georgia. No. 25 Nebraska also dropped a spot after hanging on to beat Ball State 41-40 at home.

Appalachian State, the Championship Subdivision team that upset Michigan in the first week and prompted the AP to open poll voting to schools from all divisions, didn't appear on any ballots after its 17-game winning streak was snapped by Wofford. Appalachian State received votes in the previous two polls.

Post by **Sylvus** » September 24, 2007, 2:14 pm

Winnow wrote:Match up the Pac Ten head to head, the same way the article above matches up the SEC vs Pac Ten and the Big Ten would be slaughtered.

And then, to use your own logic...

Winnow wrote:Need to see performance, not rankings.

Do you even read what you're saying? On the one hand, you say you can't subjectively determine who the best team is without seeing them play each other. Then you use your opinions to say that one team would beat another. I'm sorry, the AP and Coaches polls are wrong, when you want them to be, but the articles you link are right. Is that more along the lines of what you're trying to say?

The only things we can tell for certain about the conferences are when they actually meet head to head. And even then, you can't say that because Penn State beats Tennessee one day, that everyone who beat Penn State would also beat Tennessee. Football outcomes do not follow the transitive property of logic, that's why they play the games every weekend. I'm trying to find more Pac 10 teams to compare to other conferences, but outside of USC, I don't see any recent results in last year's bowls for PAC 10 teams. Sure, Oregon came into a game against an embarassed Michigan team who hadn't prepared appropriately for Appalachian State, injured our senior QB and handily defeated us. That doesn't tell you a whole lot about the Big 10 in general, or about how the fucking Sun Devils are at football. Though, to be fair, it probably has more relevance than an ASU loss from the mid 1990s does, yet you still can't fucking shut up about that.

I don't know why anyone would listen to Winnow regarding any sports, let alone Football in general or NCAA Football specifically. He knows pretty much nothing, waffles about as he sees fit, and seems to exist only to troll. Someone please bump a thread about Amare Stoudemire or Steve Nash or whoever else's dick Winnow's mouth smells like and maybe he'll leave the football conversations to the adults.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » September 24, 2007, 2:29 pm

Yeah, no shit. And no where in this thread did I say that the Big Ten was the top conference or close to it. But by using winnow's school of logic I can actually come up with an argument. After OSU absolutely embarrassed that Washington school and their messiah Jake Locker, I would go on to bet that the entire conference as a whole couldn't stand up to a team that has a semblance of defense. The proof is in the pudding, and we whooped the fuck out of them. Toyed with them for the first half, like we have done in most games, then came out and gave a big fuck you to all the Pac Ten teams by beating a shitty UW team. Therefor, disregarding an obvious slip up on UM's part, the Big Ten is by far and away the premier conference in the nation.

Pretty sound argument right there. Though I didn't link a 2 page opinion article and pictures, so I can already see the holes.

On a serious note: rofl grats on being proud of being 23rd!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » September 24, 2007, 2:31 pm

Sylvus wrote: Do you even read what you're saying? On the one hand, you say you can't subjectively determine who the best team is without seeing them play each other. Then you use your opinions to say that one team would beat another. I'm sorry, the AP and Coaches polls are wrong, when you want them to be, but the articles you link are right. Is that more along the lines of what you're trying to say?

I tend to give more credence to a team that earned their way into the top 25 than one gifted a high pre-season ranking based on mystique.

...like the ASU team back in '96!

As for speculating on which conference is better, of course you need to. I guess you can imagine the Big Ten being better than the Pac Ten, the same as whatever conference Wofford College is in can as they don't play Pac Ten teams either.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » September 24, 2007, 2:37 pm

Zamtuk wrote:Yeah, no shit. And no where in this thread did I say that the Big Ten was the top conference or close to it. But by using winnow's school of logic I can actually come up with an argument. After OSU absolutely embarrassed that Washington school and their messiah Jake Locker, I would go on to bet that the entire conference as a whole couldn't stand up to a team that has a semblance of defense. The proof is in the pudding, and we whooped the fuck out of them. Toyed with them for the first half, like we have done in most games, then came out and gave a big fuck you to all the Pac Ten teams by beating a shitty UW team. Therefor, disregarding an obvious slip up on UM's part, the Big Ten is by far and away the premier conference in the nation.

You beat one of the unranked Pac Ten teams...good lord, I would hope so with your lofty ranking.

I'm proud of ASU's 23rd ranking. Why wouldn't I be? It wasn't handed to them in the pre-season.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » September 24, 2007, 3:38 pm

If the PAC 10 is such a great conference top to bottom, then why didn't they at least give OSU a game? Sometimes you just need to shut the fuck up for a few days about the desert teams. So OSU choked one up against Florida. They didn't choke when they beat the unbeatable juggernaut of Miami FL few years back. Hell, last I checked the PAC 10's flagship fags got beat by the Big 12's Texas...who also squeaked by OSU that same year. Using Michigan as a flagstick to measure the Big 10 and its bowl teams is silly....it is well known that they can't win a bowl game with Llllloyd Carr.

If you want to go back, then since 1990, the PAC 10 has won 7 Rose Bowls. The Big 10 has won 7. Michigan has 5 of the Big 10's 8 losses in that bowl.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » September 24, 2007, 4:18 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:If the PAC 10 is such a great conference top to bottom, then why didn't they at least give OSU a game?

They did give OSU a game for a half (Washington was winning at halftime) and then Washington's Red Shirt QB started looking like a Red Shirt QB. Top to bottom, the Pac Ten is solid this year. That doesn't mean Washington will beat the best team in the Big Ten. It means USC will, or Cal. Washington will beat middle of the road Big Ten Teams as you can place USC, Cal, Oregon and Arizona State all above them to face off against the Big Ten's top four teams.

Gooo Devilllls!

Homercles · Post by **Homercles** » September 24, 2007, 5:37 pm

I cry foul on Winnows Best Top to Bottom argument as well.
I wont sight the OSU-Washington game as an example. I'll go with two similarly positioned teams (at the time) within their respective conferences.
Cincinnati vs Oregon State.
The Bearcats absolutely drubbed (34-3) that weak ass Pac Ten team. They surrendered a whopping 3 points to a the same team that put up 19 IN THE 1ST QUARTER to your beloved Sun Devils.
Like Zamtuk said...put a Pac Ten team against a defense and they will lose....badly. (USC excluded)

btw..Cincinnati has breached the top 25 for the first time since the mid 70's. If they handle this weeks west coast trip to San Diego, then the Big East has a damn good showdown the following week. Cincinnati vs West Virginia.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » September 24, 2007, 6:13 pm

Homercles wrote:
btw..Cincinnati has breached the top 25 for the first time since the mid 70's. If they handle this weeks west coast trip to San Diego, then the Big East has a damn good showdown the following week. Cincinnati vs West Virginia.

ASU beat San Diego 34-13 this year so you can use that for comparison. Cinncinnati's ranked right next to ASU in the polls so it will be interesting to see how it goes.

We'll have to wait until Bowl Season and hope there are a few Pac Ten vs Big Ten matchups.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » September 24, 2007, 6:44 pm

The funny thing is that I have yet to explicitly see any of the Big Ten folks here claim that the Big Ten is better than the Pac Ten this year. Of course, I have yet to see them admit that the Pac Ten is superior, too. I'm not sure if anyone actually disagrees here, or if everyone's just pissed off at Winnow for being a pain in the ass.

I do agree with Winnow that the Pac Ten is better than the Big Ten this year.

Here are the REAL, AUTHORITATIVE conference rankings:

1. SEC (Because they know how to play offense AND defense)
2 (tie). Pac Ten, Big Ten, Big East (The Pac Ten and the Big East can play offense, the Big Ten can play defense)
5. Big 12 (two teams can play offense and defense, and Texas Tech can play offense, and nobody else can do shit)
6. ACC (no one can do anything well)

And there you have it.

The Cincinnati/Oregon State game was a big one. What a lot of people don't realize about the Big East is that it's only an 8 team conference, 3 or 4 teams smaller than everyone else. Cincinnati is probably the 4th or 5th best team in the Big East (depends on just how bad Louisville is, but let's say they're 4th for the sake of argument). It seems natural to compare Cincinnati to Arizona State, given that they're both teams playing well under new coaches, and ASU looks like the 4th best team in the Pac Ten. This comparison is disingenous however, because while Cincy is 4/8, ASU is 4/12. The accurate comparison would be Cincy vs. Oregon State or Washington. Washington has been improved but doesn't look close to Cincy's quality, and we already saw what happened when Cincy plays Oregon State.

If USC starts losing, or if their defense just starts to look really ugly, then I'd probably start thinking that the Big East was the superior conference this year.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » September 24, 2007, 7:02 pm

Sueven wrote: This comparison is disingenous however, because while Cincy is 4/8, ASU is 4/12.

4/12? The Pacific-10 has "Ten" teams.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » September 24, 2007, 7:12 pm

Whoops. 4/10!

Who knows who the 5th best Pac Ten team is. Pick your favorite of UCLA, OSU, UW.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » September 24, 2007, 7:55 pm

For such a shitty conference, we do have 5/11 of it in the rankings.=/

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » September 24, 2007, 9:40 pm

No you don't, you have 4/11. Don't give me that coaches poll shit! The coaches poll is a joke.

Still though, whether 25th or 26th, it's a good point.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » September 24, 2007, 11:41 pm

Yeah, but MSU will (likely) get bounced out (or kept out depending how you look at it), after they play Wisconsin this week.

Or maybe not.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » September 25, 2007, 2:17 am

I would just like to nominate Booghaz for the best line of the year contest.
Claiming the Pac-10 gets media preference is possibly the funniest line I have read all year.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » September 25, 2007, 9:01 am

Tyek wrote:I would just like to nominate Booghaz for the best line of the year contest.
Claiming the Pac-10 gets media preference is possibly the funniest line I have read all year.

I said "mediamonkey." You know..that monkey you can't get off of your back? Every time someone starts talking about how good a conference is, the Pac10 comes up, even when only one team might not suck. Someone thinks they have to be mentioned. At least they CAN count to 10 though.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » September 25, 2007, 5:31 pm

So rumor around campus is that Antonio Henton just got suspended for the year for trying to solicit prostitution to an undercover cop. I've checked around the internet (not extensivly) and found nothing on the subject, though it was all over campus and talk radio. Tressel didn't seem to believe it in the press conference he held, as football players really don't have to go far to get a piece of ass.

He was our third string qb and heir apparent to Troy Smith for those who don't know.

Post by **Sylvus** » September 25, 2007, 5:34 pm

I saw this on it earlier this morning.

Then heard about this later, which says it was dismissed.

Who knows.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » September 25, 2007, 5:43 pm

It's a sad, sad day for America's colleges when a football player can't find free pussy on campus.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » September 25, 2007, 5:54 pm

huh, well shit, i guess it was dismissed then. That is the official Franklin county court website, so that is pretty hard evidence right there. Though, 6th is not where I would expect him to be as it is the deep ghetto. Though had he went down one more block he would have been at the start of gay town.

How bad?