Keep those races sepArate

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

http://www.thestate.com/local/v-print/story/177514.html

Posted on Wed, Sep. 19, 2007
Jackson criticizes Obama
Presidential candidate’s response to Jena, La., case called too weak
By RODDIE A. BURRIS
rburris@thestate.com
The Rev. Jesse Jackson called Tuesday on Democrats seeking the 2008 nomination for president to give S.C. voters “something to vote for” when they go to the polls in January.

On a statewide tour to register new voters, Jackson said South Carolina will determine “who has momentum” in the primary when it votes Jan. 29.

Jackson sharply criticized presidential hopeful and Illinois Sen. Barack Obama for “acting like he’s white” in what Jackson said has been a tepid response to six black juveniles’ arrest on attempted-murder charges in Jena, La. Jackson, who also lives in Illinois, endorsed Obama in March, according to The Associated Press.

“If I were a candidate, I’d be all over Jena,” Jackson said after an hour-long speech at Columbia’s historically black Benedict College.

“Jena is a defining moment, just like Selma was a defining moment,” said the iconic civil rights figure, who worked with Martin Luther King Jr. in the 1965 Selma civil rights movement and was with King at his 1968 assassination.

Later, Jackson said he did not recall making the “acting like he’s white” comment about Obama, stressing he only wanted to point out the candidates had not seized on an opportunity to highlight the disproportionate criminal punishments black youths too often face.

Jackson also said Obama, who consistently has placed second in state and national polls behind New York Sen. Hillary Clinton, must be “bolder” in his political positions if he is to erase Clinton’s lead.

Jackson is the only African-American ever to carry South Carolina in a presidential primary election.

Obama’s South Carolina campaign pointed to a statement it released last week in which Obama called on the local Louisiana district attorney to drop the excessive charges brought in the case.

“When nooses are being hung in high schools in the 21st century, it’s a tragedy,” the Obama statement said. “It shows that we still have a lot of work to do as a nation to heal our racial tensions.”

Thousands from across the country, including some from Columbia, are expected to converge on the small town of Jena today to protest the “Jena 6” arrests.

Jackson told the 500 to 600 students in his audience at Benedict that “criminal injustice,” instead of a rope, is the pressing civil rights issue of their day, but that voting remained their strongest ally.

“Your fight is not about ropes, it’s about hope,” Jackson said, blasting the flood of guns and violence he said permeates many black communities.

Civil rights, he said, has become the counterculture of the day rather than the prevailing culture. “You can’t call on the Justice Department anymore; it’s not there.”

Jackson, who became only the second major black candidate to run for president, won five primaries in his 1984 bid for the office, then 11 primaries and nearly 7 million votes in his 1988 run.

He said the 2008 presidential candidates must speak most directly to the pressing S.C. issues of housing, high tuition costs, health care and a plan to end the war in Iraq.

“The candidates have got to speak to South Carolina,” said Jackson, who was traveling also to S.C. State University in Orangeburg and to Charleston Tuesday evening before wrapping up his registration drive tonight in Aiken.

A Greenville native, Jackson said he hoped to register thousands of new voters during the statewide swing, which began Saturday in Rock Hill.

“Their votes must equal change,” he said, referring to residents in a state where only 1 in 4 eligible voters go to the polls. “I want to make sure the right agenda is being voted on in 2008.”

His approach worked for senior mass-communications major Darius Dior Porcher, 21, who graduated from famed Scotts Branch High School in Clarendon County, which produced the Briggs v. Elliott school desegregation case of 1954.

“The main thing when you speak to students is to get them to move,” Porcher said. “He moved students today. He got them to come down to the floor and register to vote.”

Reach Burris at (803) 771-8398.

Keep trying to keep the races seperate. Fucking Jesse Jackson is a piece of shit. What a horrible, thoughtless, and racist thing to say.

[Keverian FireCry]

Though I agree that Jesse Jackson is becoming more and more desperate and stupid with age, the incident in Jena is seriously fucked up...

I just don't understand why it's Obama's responsibility to speak out on it. Of course there are still racial injustices in the country, but to make it part of his campaign would be foolish. There are more immediate, universal problems that need to be addressed by presidential candidates if they want to be elected in '08.

I'm sure this incident could be used to Obama's advantage, but I think Jackson could communicate to him without insulting him and putting doubt in the minds of his present supporters.

[Boogahz]

If the only issue was that the punishment was disproportionate based on race, that might be an issue to focus on. Since the issue ties to hate crimes based on the nooses, it is best to stay away for now. The only problem I have with the story, as it has been reported so far, is the focus on the nooses (what IS the plural of noose?) left hanging from the tree. It is almost as if the media is justifying the actions of the teens by the presence of them hanging from the tree. That kind of precedent is NOT one I want to see set by any court. If a person, or group of people, could be found innocent based on the racial incitement which these ropes are being referred to as, what other incitement would have to be excused by the courts? In my mind, the story should be that the teens are being (one has so far) tried as adults without any good reason (that I know of).

[Bubba Grizz]

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. Words to live by.

[Sueven]

The claim in the Jena case is not that the actions of the black teenagers were justified because of the existence of the noose. The issue is that the presence of the noose sparked racial violence by BOTH whites against blacks AND blacks against whites. And the blacks are facing decades in prison, while the whites were either never charged or received slaps on the wrist.

It's a fucking embarrassment.

[Boogahz]

The claim in the Jena case is not that the actions of the black teenagers were justified because of the existence of the noose. The issue is that the presence of the noose sparked racial violence by BOTH whites against blacks AND blacks against whites. And the blacks are facing decades in prison, while the whites were either never charged or received slaps on the wrist.

It's a fucking embarrassment.

I haven't seen/heard anything about the presence of the nooses causing white-on-black violence. I have only seen/heard that the nooses were present and then the black-on-white violence took place. I know that the case is not that the actions were justified by the nooses. I was commenting on the way that the media is reporting on the entire situation as if the presence of three nooses on the tree somehow justified the black teens beating the white(s).

[Sueven]

Here's a summary. Full disclosure: It's stolen from a racial advocacy organization which clearly has a bias in this case. As far as I've heard them, the facts as related are accurate, but take it with as much salt as you wish.

The noose-hanging incident and the DA's visit to the school set the stage for everything that followed. Racial tension escalated over the next couple of months, and on November 30, the main academic building of Jena High School was burned down in an unsolved fire. Later the same weekend, a black student was beaten up by white students at a party. The next day, black students at a convenience store were threatened by a young white man with a shotgun. They wrestled the gun from him and ran away. While no charges were filed against the white man, the students were arrested for the theft of the gun.2

That Monday at school, a white student, who had been a vocal supporter of the students who hung the nooses, taunted the black student who was beaten up at the off-campus party and allegedly called several black students "nigger." After lunch, he was knocked down, punched and kicked by black students. He was taken to the hospital but was released and was well enough to go to a social event that evening.3

Six Black Jena High students, Robert Bailey (17), Theo Shaw (17), Carwin Jones (18), Bryant Purvis (17), Mychal Bell (16) and an unidentified minor, were expelled from school, arrested and charged with second-degree attempted murder. Bail was set so high -- between $70,000 and $138,000 -- that the boys were left in prison for months as families went deep into debt to release them.4

The first trial ended last month, and Mychal Bell, who has been in prison since December, was convicted of aggravated battery and conspiracy to commit aggravated battery (both felonies) by an all-white jury in a trial where his public defender called no witnesses. During his trial, Mychal's parents were ordered not to speak to the media and the court prohibited protests from taking place near the courtroom or where the judge could see them.

Mychal is scheduled to be sentenced on July 31st, and could go to jail for 22 years.5 Theo Shaw's trial is next. He will finally make bail this week.

To update, the charges against Mychal have been thrown out. However, they were not thrown out for any substantive reason, but because the judge ruled he should have been tried as a minor instead of an adult.

Plus: What the fuck schoolyard fight results in ATTEMPTED MURDER charges? When I was in high school (not that long ago... this was probably... '98 or '99), two kids got in a fight (in the stairwell next to the math wing), and one of the kids ended up with a smashed skull (broken orbital, nose, jaw, etc) that required major reconstructive surgery. Any charges filed? Nope. Punishment? Seven day suspension. Both participants were white, if you think it matters.

That said, despite the fact that this case is a blatant travesty and an extreme abdication of duty by the criminal justice system, Jesse Jackson is kind of a dumbass and Obama has no obligation to make it part of his campaign.

[Nick]

I was commenting on the way that the media is reporting on the entire situation as if the presence of three nooses on the tree somehow justified the black teens beating the white(s).

Well, if it was the white teens in question who put the nooses up, then it does justify them getting their asses kicked.

Also, Midnyte, how is any of this report "racist"?

[Boogahz]

I was commenting on the way that the media is reporting on the entire situation as if the presence of three nooses on the tree somehow justified the black teens beating the white(s).

Well, if it was the white teens in question who put the nooses up, then it does justify them getting their asses kicked.

Also, Midnyte, how is any of this report "racist"?

Pissing someone off does not "legally" justify getting your ass kicked.



Sueven: That's more information than I had seen elsewhere. It already sounded like there was more going on than the one event.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

I was commenting on the way that the media is reporting on the entire situation as if the presence of three nooses on the tree somehow justified the black teens beating the white(s).

Well, if it was the white teens in question who put the nooses up, then it does justify them getting their asses kicked.

Also, Midnyte, how is any of this report "racist"?

Jesse Jackson saying "Obama is acting white" is racist and very seperatist. Assholes like this continue to cause a divide. I'm stunned these people are given the opportunity to spew their racism.

[Nick]

That isn't a racist comment

[Funkmasterr]

That isn't a racist comment

It sure is. It would be if a white person said it, so it's racist if a black person says it, the end. Please don't feed me any bullshit reasons about it being ok for black people to say it because they are all ridiculous.

Jesse Jackson claims to have African American peoples' best inerest's in mind, but that is also bullshit. People like him do more to perpetuate the behavior's and mentalities that they are supposedly trying to combat than any other person or group of people in the entire world, and that my friends - is a fact.

[Zaelath]

Anything that denotes there is a difference between blacks, whites, greens, purples, whatever, is racist. Hence, "acting white" means whites act differently to blacks, and by extension it's a bad thing to act white, and hence actually quite negative racism.

If you want racial equality then sorry, there's no room "positive racism" or "embracing your heritage". If you want to "celebrate your blackness" then you go ahead and celebrate what makes you different from the people that you want to treat you the same.

This is, of course, the general "you", not "you Nick"

[Funkmasterr]

Anything that denotes there is a difference between blacks, whites, greens, purples, whatever, is racist. Hence, "acting white" means whites act differently to blacks, and by extension it's a bad thing to act white, and hence actually quite negative racism.

If you want racial equality then sorry, there's no room "positive racism" or "embracing your heritage". If you want to "celebrate your blackness" then you go ahead and celebrate what makes you different from the people that you want to treat you the same.

This is, of course, the general "you", not "you Nick"

And I thought agreeing with nick was painful..

[Leonaerd]

SepArate







uahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Nick]

I understand what you're saying, I just think calling it "racist" is retarded.

And of course there are differences along racial lines, be they cultural, economic or just plain old because they look different. Overt political correctness as a means to justify misplaced criticism is probably more embarrassing to read than actual racism.

Take Colin Powell for example, as comical old grump George Carlin states, he's about the whitest black man around. Black politicians wanting to be accepted by the majority of hick Americans DO have to act "white". Tough shit for you if it doesn't mean you can't get away on a messageboard with trying to call Jesse Jackson out as a racist for this particularly non existant misdemeanor (of all the ones we could pick!). we already both agree Jackson is a douchebag, but fundamental reality doesn't change just because of that fact.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

I understand what you're saying, I just think calling it "racist" is retarded.

And of course there are differences along racial lines, be they cultural, economic or just plain old because they look different. Overt political correctness as a means to justify misplaced criticism is probably more embarrassing to read than actual racism.

Take Colin Powell for example, as comical old grump George Carlin states, he's about the whitest black man around. Black politicians wanting to be accepted by the majority of hick Americans DO have to act "white". Tough shit for you if it doesn't mean you can't get away on a messageboard with trying to call Jesse Jackson out as a racist for this particularly non existant misdemeanor (of all the ones we could pick!). we already both agree Jackson is a douchebag, but fundamental reality doesn't change just because of that fact.

You're being a pathetically obvious black apologist. You're trying to justify it being okay when blacks say the same thing you would crucify a white guy for saying. Don't try and confuse the issue with unrelatable analogies. If a KKK leader (the white equivalent to JJ) said one of the white presidential candidates was acting "Black" about an issue...he'd be fucked! We would be treated to 24 hour coverage of media outrage at this person.

[Nick]

I really am not. I couldn't give two shits about defending Jesse Jackson, but I am admittedly anti retard.

If a KKK member called out Hillary Clinton for dressing up in baggy pants and going "YO G I BE THUGGIN IT FO REAL" when she stood in the middle of Compton would anyone have an issue with accusing her of "trying to be black"? I doubt it.

Way to bring out the extreme rationalisations, (I had to reply in kind yo)

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

You really are. Yet another far out stupid analogy.

[Nick]

Ok, well as long as you're blindly asserting it it must be true. My bad!

[Tristinn]

Ok.. I never post.. so obviously you wont listen to what I say.. but..

Midnyte.. you saying black apologist.. is the single most racist thing I have ever seen on the internet.. and I've been on since about '96.

Sir.. you are a racist. A really bad one. So.. congrats.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Ok.. I never post.. so obviously you wont listen to what I say.. but..

Midnyte.. you saying black apologist.. is the single most racist thing I have ever seen on the internet.. and I've been on since about '96.

Sir.. you are a racist. A really bad one. So.. congrats.

You're right, I don't give a shit what you say. Especially when you say something so stupid. Have a nice day.

[Dregor Thule]

While calling it the most racist thing is a gross exaggeration, it was still pretty damned racist. I challenge you to bring this subject up with a group of co-workers (not close, personal, good ole' boys friends). If one of them defends Jesse Jackson, I dare you to flat out call them a black apologist. See how that goes over. Throw in him being the black equivalent to the KKK for good measure. Let us know how that turns out.

[Funkmasterr]

While calling it the most racist thing is a gross exaggeration, it was still pretty damned racist. I challenge you to bring this subject up with a group of co-workers (not close, personal, good ole' boys friends). If one of them defends Jesse Jackson, I dare you to flat out call them a black apologist. See how that goes over. Throw in him being the black equivalent to the KKK for good measure. Let us know how that turns out.

I might not use the term "black apologist" but I would say basically the same thing, including a detailed reason why he is so completely worthless to anybody that mentioned the subject to me, anywhere including work.

[Leonaerd]

Ok.. I never post.. so obviously you wont listen to what I say.. but..

Midnyte.. you saying black apologist.. is the single most racist thing I have ever seen on the internet.. and I've been on since about '96.

Sir.. you are a racist. A really bad one. So.. congrats.

Ten posts in four years of browsing and this is what you write? So.. congrats.

[Funkmasterr]

Yeah, he is a moron. No one should have acknowledged him.

[Aslanna]

I've thought the same thing about 2528 times.

[Boogahz]

I've thought the same thing about 2528 times.

but you keep doing it

[Funkmasterr]

I've thought the same thing about 2528 times.

Sure it wasn't 2530?

[Leonaerd]

I've thought the same thing about 2528 times.

I lold.

[Tristinn]

The Veeshan boards over at the Vault (it was the vault right.. been a while) were extremely entertaining.. These ones were fun to until you all stopped goin to the faires.

It is extremely hard to try to explain racism properly to White People who are too stubborn to acknowledge their own privilege. Midnyte you should really try to work on your empathy and maybe educate yourself on the history of black people in the US. If it doesn't make you less of a racist then you should at least use a racist disclaimer of some sort.

If it makes any difference.. I think these couple of facts were pretty important considering that before the white kid was beat up.. a black kid had a bottle broken over his head and beat up..no charges filed.. and a white guy pulled a gun on some black kids.. the black kids wrestled the gun away.. and were then Charged with Theft of a Weapon!

[Funkmasterr]

The Veeshan boards over at the Vault (it was the vault right.. been a while) were extremely entertaining.. These ones were fun to until you all stopped goin to the faires.

It is extremely hard to try to explain racism properly to White People who are too stubborn to acknowledge their own privilege. Midnyte you should really try to work on your empathy and maybe educate yourself on the history of black people in the US. If it doesn't make you less of a racist then you should at least use a racist disclaimer of some sort.

While I won't argue that mid has his times where he says racist shit, in this case you are full of shit. White people being "privileged" doesn't give black people like the Jackson the right to also say racist shit. Any black person that gets behind someone like him and the shit he says deserves to be discriminated against. Like Chris Rock said, there is a difference between black people and niggers.. Not even black people like niggers, and Jesse Jackson is not a black person.

[Tristinn]

Why is it racists just love to quote that Chris Rock stand-up..

Cant be a coincidence..

[Funkmasterr]

Why is it racists just love to quote that Chris Rock stand-up..

Cant be a coincidence..

Well for one, I'm not racist. I have just as many black friends as white. The point he was making in his stand up is something I have heard validated by said black friends as well. Black people that truly want to be treated equal and people successful, intelligent members of society are constantly set back in their efforts by the ignorant, racist morons like Jesse Jackson. There is really no debating this point so I don't know what you are aiming to do.

[Fash]

Before you bash Midnyte for what he says on here regarding race, you should know that we were both raised in the armed forces where racism was pretty much non-existant. We were lucky enough to grow up in a situation where everyone was truly treated as equal. I didn't really see racism until we were out of the service, and I was appalled as I was yelled at for bringing a black kid into someones neighborhood.

There's a difference between actually feeling that other races are beneath you or fatally flawed because of their color.... and seeing how people allow their race to affect their own lifestyle. In the second case, It's more observational race research than it is racism. You can be someone like Obama, an intelligent senator, or you can be 50 cent, a borderline(?) criminal. Which one of these people didn't allow their skin color to affect their decisions in life?

Jessie jackson makes a living being a racist, essentially. He's only interested in black issues, and he advertises that fact... He's part of the problem. I'm gonna bring back up the super bowl last year... The single biggest problem with racism, is calling attention to someones skin color. The super bowl was a mockery... They couldn't say 3 words without saying black... If the super bowl aired without mentioning the word black once, it truly would've been progress.

[Leonaerd]

word

[Wulfran]

Jessie jackson makes a living being a racist, essentially. He's only interested in black issues, and he advertises that fact... He's part of the problem.

This is something I want to agree with in part, because of how he handles issues(tries to sensationalize and create huge reactions) but there is nothing inherently racist in paying attention to issues that affect your demographic. The way Jesse Jackson does things exagerates the divisions of society instead of trying to eliminate them... ironic from a man who was an adherent of Dr. King. And yes, Jackson calling Obama out on this is assholish if not outright racist.

The other side of the coin is the way things were handled in Jena is a farce. I can understand criminal assault charge against the 6 black kids who took down the mouthy white kid: 6 on 1 is not justifiable in any circumstance. But attempted murder is a joke and so is the assault on the black kid at the party: that was assault with a weapon which is or should have been treated as severely if not more so, than the 6 on 1 incident. The prosecutors (if not the police) failed justice in this town. And a fucking noose hanging from a tree, while provocative, is not sufficient grounds for a race war: maybe a school suspension or disturbing the peace charge.

[Kryshade]

I live about 40 miles from Jena. I manage a bodyshop there and usually travel there about 2 times a week. I've heard both sides of the story and can perhaps shed a bit of local light on the subject.

There's two sides to every story, so here's a little snippet of both:

Black Side: Because the members of the "Jena 6" are black, they were charged with various charges that did not fit the crime. The black community is up in arms about the fact that the main person in this was charged with attempted second degree murder. Even though many people brought up the fact that this was too harsh of a charge, the charge was not dropped or lessened. (Until just recently... I believe last week it was dropped to aggravated assault). The white boy that was beaten up by the "Jena 6" was found with a gun in his possession at the school and was not charged with anything. Clearly this is a racist thing because no white people were charged with anything, and the black kids were charged with very harsh things, such as attempted second degree murder. No local authorities listened to the pleas of the black community about reducing the charges, therefore it is racially motivated and as such led to a huge rally to protest the racist aspect of this situation.

White Side: 6 black kids jumped 1 white kid. The main black kid charged (sorry, don't feel like looking up his name) has a rap sheet a mile long. Locals in the town of Jena (I know quite a few, both black and white, thus the two sides to this story) have all confirmed that that main kid has a long history of violent crime, vandalism, theft, battery etc etc. The other 5 black kids involved have been friends with the main kid for awhile, and free what I have been told, all also have a record that no parents would be proud of. As such, when they committed this crime, the law slapped a harsh sentence on them in an effort to get them off the street. The main outlook of the white community is these kids blatantly broke the law, have done so in the past and this time, severely beat up 1 white kid and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. The general confusion from the white community is why would the black community rally around an obvious group of criminals?

Now, I've simplified things a bit, so please don't attempt to pick apart nuances in the above summaries. These are not my personal opinions at all... this is how it was explained to me by both a older white gentlemen and an older black gentleman that both live in the town of Jena.

Today was insane! On my way to work I passed up a convoy of about 100 greyhound busses (I'm not exaggerating). I also passed up about 80 motorcycles. All on their way to the protest in Jena. The whole of central Louisiana has been basically affected by this protest and the events of the day.

Now... for my opinion.

I can see both sides. I understand that the charges didn't necessarily fit the crime... HOWEVER... the "Jena 6" plain and simple broke the law. I don't want to sound like Midnyte, but none of this EVER would have happened if the black kids didn't break the law. You take out the source of the problem (lawbreakers) and there never is an issue. I understand that Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and all the others want to rant and rave how black people are charged more seriously for crimes than white people... guess what the answer to that is... STOP BREAKING THE LAW ASSHOLE! (Liar Liar Quote FTW!)

I don't want to hear a sob story about how the law isn't fair to blacks or whites... your talking about criminals here. These people, both white and black broke the law. I find it odd that the black community would rally around criminals. Isn't there a better role model/cause to rally around?

I also think that the local law enforcement/justice system made grievous errors in their handling of the situation. Yes the charge was to harsh... yes the bond was too high... yes the white kids deserved prosecution just as well as the black kids. But that is not an issue for the white or black community... that's an issue between the criminals and the justice system.

It truly is a shame that prejudice exists in this country. I've worked in inner city Philadelphia where my brother and I were the only white people within a 5 mile radius. I live in Louisiana where unfortunately prejudice is alive. I hear the word nigger entirely too often, and I cringe at the stupidty of people using that word. However, I personally believe that it is the black community that contributes more than anything to prejudice being kept alive in this world. There are ignorant white people that use the word nigger and will treat black people like they are lesser because of the color of their skin, however, there are black people that are so quick to throw the term "racist" and "prejudice" out that they are in essence keeping prejudice and racism alive and well because they refuse to let it die. I have also seen black people treat me as lesser because of the color of my skin. Plain and simple, if you don't let the word "nigger" have meaning, it loses all it's power. I have been called cracker and whitey to my face before, but that word holds absolutely no meaning or power to me because I know that I am not prejudice. Tp me, the word has no hate associated with it because I refuse to feel it as such. Once the black community allows the word nigger, as well as the word racist and prejudice to cease to have meaning, then the world will truly be free of prejudice and racism. At least in the grand sense of things... after that it's just ignorant white and black people on an individual and much smaller basis.

[Funkmasterr]

Nice write up, however things don't even need to get that complicated. The black people that show up to these protests are ignorant wastes of life, and the people that speak at them (Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, etc) are the worst pieces of shit in the universe.

The fact that they are either 1) Too ignorant to realize they are the ones perpetuating what they want to see end, or 2)They are just the type of worthless people that want to blame everyone else for the way things are, and play the victim card at every chance they get - makes me want all the worst things in life to happen to them.

These little punk motherfucker kids that want to run around like tough ass gangsters should not have got any trial, any chance. They should have let the white kid get 5 of the biggest, baddest people he could find, formed a circle around the gang bangers and beat them until they were unconcious - this all should have been supervised by the cops to make sure the black kids didn't try to fight back.


And when Jesse Jackson tried to come and make a speach to protest this, they should have explained to him that he was not welcome there and needed to leave immediately or be arrested. It is imperative that he is shut up permanently, just like it is important that judges stop letting frivelous lawsuits actually get a fair trial.

If these people can't or won't realize on their own that they are not making the situation any better, someone in the black community that really truly does want to see change needs to step up and make people realize how fucking retarded the "leaders" they have are. And they need to pick important focul points, which do not include criminals.

I don't even care to read the story and get all the details, because I would have to wade through too much ignorant bullshit to get the facts I am looking for, but let me guess: 6 kids with obvious gang mentality beat white kid down, the reason why does not matter. White kid brings a gun to school because he is rightfully afraid that said worthless sacks of shit are going to do worse to him.

If I am right, the white kid shouldn't even be charged. Fuck the law, if punks like these 6 kids want to play the gangster shit, then let the white kid get gangster on them and blow one of their fucking heads off - all 6 of these kids could live long lives and would probably die as worthless as they are now anyway. If I'm wrong, I don't really care.

Now while someone types up a post about how stupid or racist or wrong I am, I will be listening to David Banner (black guy, btw) - "So Special", a new single of his in which he verbally bitch slaps Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and Oprah amongst others.

[Kryshade]

Sorry Funk, but hate and anger only creates more hate and anger... the best solution is to stop getting angry at racism and prejudice. If we ignore it, it goes away eventually. Sure, someone will say that it will always be around, but it's things like 40,000 people rallies (like today in Jena) that only serve to perpetuate racism and prejudice. I firmly believe that it's not getting angry at the situation (again, angry 40k people rallies), but it's taking a complete 180 and staying calm and simply not allowing racism or prejudice to affect you that will cause it to die.

Your response is filled with too much anger and inane solutions to truly be productive. I know the point you were trying to make, I'm just pointing out that people perpetuating more hate and anger is not the solution.

[Funkmasterr]

Sorry Funk, but hate and anger only creates more hate and anger... the best solution is to stop getting angry at racism and prejudice. If we ignore it, it goes away eventually. Sure, someone will say that it will always be around, but it's things like 40,000 people rallies (like today in Jena) that only serve to perpetuate racism and prejudice. I firmly believe that it's not getting angry at the situation (again, angry 40k people rallies), but it's taking a complete 180 and staying calm and simply not allowing racism or prejudice to affect you that will cause it to die.

Your response is filled with too much anger and inane solutions to truly be productive. I know the point you were trying to make, I'm just pointing out that people perpetuating more hate and anger is not the solution.

And you know what, you are right and I'm fully aware of that. However, I'm just so fed up with it I can't hardly even think straight when I hear about it anymore. How can so many people be so blind to the injustice that they are doing to themselves?

[Sueven]

Sorry Funk, but hate and anger only creates more hate and anger... the best solution is to stop getting angry at racism and prejudice. If we ignore it, it goes away eventually. Sure, someone will say that it will always be around, but it's things like 40,000 people rallies (like today in Jena) that only serve to perpetuate racism and prejudice. I firmly believe that it's not getting angry at the situation (again, angry 40k people rallies), but it's taking a complete 180 and staying calm and simply not allowing racism or prejudice to affect you that will cause it to die.

Holy fucking shit, are you serious?

Please pause to take a moment to consider how stupidly, absurdly lucky you are to have the privilege to make a statement like "if we ignore it, it'll go away."

Try telling that to people who actually suffer from prejudice...

Some people can't just choose to "not allow racism or prejudice to affect" them. It is the PERPETRATORS of racism and prejudice who are responsible for whether or not it affects the victims. As a victim, you can't just will away legitimate harm. It's like telling a rape victim to pretend that she consented.

[Funkmasterr]

Sorry Funk, but hate and anger only creates more hate and anger... the best solution is to stop getting angry at racism and prejudice. If we ignore it, it goes away eventually. Sure, someone will say that it will always be around, but it's things like 40,000 people rallies (like today in Jena) that only serve to perpetuate racism and prejudice. I firmly believe that it's not getting angry at the situation (again, angry 40k people rallies), but it's taking a complete 180 and staying calm and simply not allowing racism or prejudice to affect you that will cause it to die.

Holy fucking shit, are you serious?

Please pause to take a moment to consider how stupidly, absurdly lucky you are to have the privilege to make a statement like "if we ignore it, it'll go away."

Try telling that to people who actually suffer from prejudice...

Some people can't just choose to "not allow racism or prejudice to affect" them. It is the PERPETRATORS of racism and prejudice who are responsible for whether or not it effects the victims. As a victim, you can't just will away legitimate harm. It's like telling a rape victim to pretend that she consented.

I don't think we, or more importantly, the black community needs to ignore racism against them.. They need to start choosing to ignore people like Jesse Jackson and maybe they will start to see some progress.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

We will always need people like Jesse Jackson to stand up and cry-out for justice, when people of any race, creed, color or religion are being unjustly treated. Problem is he has only picked one side to fight for and only cares about the perception of unjustice.

[Sueven]

I don't think we, or more importantly, the black community needs to ignore racism against them.. They need to start choosing to ignore people like Jesse Jackson and maybe they will start to see some progress.

I'm fine with this statement. I strongly disagree with some things you've said earlier in this thread, but I have no problems with this.

We will always need people like Jesse Jackson to stand up and cry-out for justice, when people of any race, creed, color or religion are being unjustly treated. Problem is he has only picked one side to fight for and only cares about the perception of unjustice.

I'm fine with this statement too, although I disagree that it's a problem that he specifically advocates for African-Americans. Justice advocates aren't superhuman and have to choose how they prioritize their time. I don't see why it's bad that certain advocates focus on the issues affecting certain groups but not others.

Neither of you are defending anywhere close to what Krys said.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Neither of you are defending anywhere close to what Krys said.

Not at all. I think his statement is ridiculous.

[Funkmasterr]

I don't think we, or more importantly, the black community needs to ignore racism against them.. They need to start choosing to ignore people like Jesse Jackson and maybe they will start to see some progress.

I'm fine with this statement. I strongly disagree with some things you've said earlier in this thread, but I have no problems with this.

We will always need people like Jesse Jackson to stand up and cry-out for justice, when people of any race, creed, color or religion are being unjustly treated. Problem is he has only picked one side to fight for and only cares about the perception of unjustice.

I'm fine with this statement too, although I disagree that it's a problem that he specifically advocates for African-Americans. Justice advocates aren't superhuman and have to choose how they prioritize their time. I don't see why it's bad that certain advocates focus on the issues affecting certain groups but not others.

Neither of you are defending anywhere close to what Krys said.

I should have specified, what I was agreeing with is the reaction that people have to these situations. By no means is becoming an angry mob and basically holding militant protests going to help anything, but neither is completely ignoring it.. At least not imo.

[cadalano]

i can only imagine Krys poorly worded point was that playing the racism card is a catch 22. it perpetuates racism as a whole when it is cited in a situation where it does not belong (or even in a situation where it does belong, though it is, of course, justified then), not to mention bastardizing the entire civil rights movement. men and women suffered and died to provide the protection to victims of injustice. they are the reason it is such a powerful defense in the american system.. and it should never be abused. yet, it is abused. almost casually. men who are in positions to gain from racism have every reason to keep it, and the benefits it provides them, alive and well. From high profile men like Jackson, to the common miscreant who seems to believe that the civil rights movement amounts to a get out of trouble free card in his pocket. Furthermore, its a conflict of interest for men like Jackson who are in the unique position to be able to stoke the fire at will.

[Sueven]

men who are in positions to gain from racism have every reason to keep it, and the benefits it provides them, alive and well. From high profile men like Jackson, to the common miscreant who seems to believe that the civil rights movement amounts to a get out of trouble free card in his pocket

I don't technically disagree with this, I guess. I'm stunned, however, that when you think of examples of men who "are in positions to gain from racism," your examples are:

1. Professional black men employed in racial advocacy contexts
2. Criminal black men who cry racism whenever they get in trouble

Something prominently missing from that list: Any mention of NON-BLACK people. Believe it or not, non-minorities benefit an awful lot more from racism than minorities do.

I'd also note that those in your second category don't actually 'gain' from racism. They would 'gain' from racism is the 'race card' ACTUALLY functioned as a 'get out of jail free' card. It doesn't. A criminal who cries racism is almost certainly just going to get laughed at and convicted anyway. This category is filled with people who just wish they could gain from racism.

And of course, it's also worth making the point that it's possible (not guaranteed, but absolutely possible) that any particular 'common miscreant' caught up in the criminal justice system is, in fact, caught up in the justice system BECAUSE of racism. So, even if such a person were able to use the racism call to get himself out of trouble, this wouldn't be 'gaining' from racism-- it would be compensating for racism.

[cadalano]

my examples are Jackson and criminals who are willing to exploit the protections given to them. I did not specify the race of the criminals, because it doesnt matter in relation to the next thing that i'm about to say. My examples are minorities because I was speaking in terms of the benefits of the racism CARD, which I did not clarify. As far as gaining from racism as a whole, naturally a white man who expects to be immune due to the (anticipated) inherent racism of the system is as guilty as the minority who expects to be immune as some kind of reparation for a history of injustice to his race. Naturally a white man who has a prominent position in a white-power group (not about to google an example at work) is benefiting from racism as much as Jackson.

I'd also note that those in your second category don't actually 'gain' from racism. They would 'gain' from racism is the 'race card' ACTUALLY functioned as a 'get out of jail free' card. It doesn't. A criminal who cries racism is almost certainly just going to get laughed at and convicted anyway. This category is filled with people who just wish they could gain from racism.

they don't always gain from racism, but they always expect to. even those who are still convicted will continue to be morally vindicated both in their own minds and those of sympathizers because they were clearly put away because of their race and not because of their actions. keep in mind that i'm not implying that every minority troublemaker has the mindset that the racism card is theirs to abuse. i am speaking only of the ones that do. I was also careful to say "trouble" and "miscreant" and not "jail" and "criminal" because this mindset does not just apply to criminal acts, but perhaps something as simple as skipping class, or picking a fight at school. Yet it leaves the same impression on those exposed to the situation, albeit on a local scale, of diminishing the integrity of the defense and perpetuating the idea that maybe race DOES matter.

And of course, it's also worth making the point that it's possible (not guaranteed, but absolutely possible) that any particular 'common miscreant' caught up in the criminal justice system is, in fact, caught up in the justice system BECAUSE of racism. So, even if such a person were able to use the racism call to get himself out of trouble, this wouldn't be 'gaining' from racism-- it would be compensating for racism.

correct, and situations like that are why its so important to maintain the integrity of his right. to maintain the power of it rather than letting it become cried wolf so many times that it is no longer able to protect him.