CNN reports on captured Terrorists..

Drewno · Post by **Drewno** » December 28, 2002, 5:23 pm

So I'm watching CNN last night...well not really watching, moreso just having it on while I play EQ mindlessly. So anyways, this lady comes on talking about extracting information from captured terrorists. Apparently the U.S. government HAS BEEN and will continue to extradite captured terrorists to countries such as Madagascar, and Egypt for interrogation. The reason being that those countries are better equipped for, and I quote this directly, "Brutal Interrogation methods". WHAT THE FUCK?! Correct me if I'm wrong but ISNT THAT FUCKING TORTURE?! Jesus christ - doesn't that go against most everything this country stands for?! Am I the only one who thinks this is *wrong* ?

Midnyte_Ragebringer · December 28, 2002, 5:26 pm

Fuck them! I hope they torture the fuck out of them. They aren't US citizens so they don't get our rights.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » December 28, 2002, 5:26 pm

countries are better equipped for, and I quote this directly, "Brutal Interrogation methods".

Yeah, that's fucked up. This is America. Sad to see another job we could do fine exported to another country. Fuckers!

Neziroth · Post by **Neziroth** » December 28, 2002, 5:52 pm

So let's sit around and let them all refuse to answer our questions while they bomb the fuck out of us again.

I'm all for that...

Think about it this way: Would they even hesitate for a second to do it (brutal interrogation) to you?

edit: wording

Kguku · Post by **Kguku** » December 28, 2002, 6:06 pm

They should shock their balls like those damn Iraqies did to Santa on South Park, those bastards!

masteen · Post by **masteen** » December 28, 2002, 6:23 pm

Does this mean that the guvmint will be hiring "Brutal Interrogation Specialists" in the near future? They should just make a deal with the Russian mob to trade leg-breakers and hookers for green cards...

Jugata · Post by **Jugata** » December 28, 2002, 6:25 pm

"Why does everyone hate us!?!?!?!"

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » December 28, 2002, 6:37 pm

Hmm yeah these are the kind of people who deserve to be treated as citizens.

/sarcasm off

What the fuck are you smoking? Turning them over to the justice levels they expect is not only right but truly poetic justice

Gung · Post by **Gung** » December 28, 2002, 7:25 pm

Teurde: It may be cause the US has a track record of involving itself in the affairs of other countries (i.e. meddling) imposing their will on said countries via military occupation (which they call a "presence") and/or inflicting harsh economic sanctions.

But the US is necessary. And occasionally they do good things, like they effectively led the way in liberation of Kuwait in 1991.

I do find it ironic that the one country who has more weapons of mass destruction than any other country in the world, is the same country going around telling people they are not allowed to have any -- then invading them if they do not comply. lol.

Having said that tho, I think the USA is wasting their time in Iraq. Even if Saddam fucktard Hussein does have some chemical weapsons, so what? Saddam hasn't done anything wrong in 12 years. He's an old man who got his ass handed to him when he invaded Kuwait.

And so far the UN hasnt' found any weapons of mass destruction anyhow. I'm of the frame of mind that if he launches a SCUD fulla chemical weapons at say, Israel, then go in and blow the shit out of him. Until then, leave them be. There hasnt't been a peep out of him since. He is no threat to the free world. He's a small fry. If he steps out of his borders again, then the allied forces are just gonna squash him.

The real threat today is North Korea. They have nukes. We're not guessing they have nukes, or surmising they may some day develop nukes, THEY HAVE THE BOMB. Several. And they have much better missle technology than Iraq will ever have. i.e. their bombs can go farther. They just kicked out the UN, they re-opened their Nuke factories that make warheads out of plutonium, and they're antagonizing the entire world about it. If there's one enemy the US -- hell the whole world -- should be concerned with now it is North Korea.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » December 28, 2002, 7:50 pm

yes heaven fucking forbid the US gov't doesn't say they want to bring democracy and freedom to the middle east out of one side of their mouths and then turn around and tell the cia to torture the shit out of arabs out of the other side.

although the fact that you racist fucking assholes on this thread advocate this along with all the rest of the hypocrisy doesn't shock me.

Gung · Post by **Gung** » December 28, 2002, 8:12 pm

Yes, but tell us how you really feel

!

Neziroth · Post by **Neziroth** » December 28, 2002, 8:13 pm

Well reach into your infinite wisdom, Kyoukan, and explain to this board what the proper thing to do is.

I mean obviously we can't make them talk by asking politely... and although I'm sure you wouldn't mind seeing America get attacked again, the rest of us would. So, tell us, how do we get the information we need?

I mean, they only killed over 3000 American civilians, we should treat them respectfully and politely! Maybe if we fucking say please they'll just spill all their plans on the table for us?

I'm waiting.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » December 28, 2002, 8:23 pm

I see you are made of sterner stuff than the soft pillows. Biggles! Bring me <dramatic music here> THE COMFY CHAIR!!!

Python knew how to deal with infidels!

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » December 28, 2002, 8:25 pm

Torturing is the most unreliable way of extracting information EVER.

I can absolutely guarantee you that using any effective torturing technique I could have the biggest islamic fundamentalist US hating sociopath in the world singing the star spangled banner, taking communion, and swearing to God that Barbara Streisand is Al'Quada's new ringleader in five minutes of time. It is so utterly worthless as an interrogation tool that words haven't yet been invented to describe how pointless it is.

The only practical use for torture is for punishment. Punishment of people who's guilt has not yet been proven or disproven and carried out by a country who, by their own words, puts themselves above such barbarism.

If you advocate the torturing of these people then you also advocate the torture of Americans that are also caught by Arabs. It really is that simple.

Stupid fucking asshole.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · December 28, 2002, 8:27 pm

uh-huh.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » December 28, 2002, 8:33 pm

Wow, another amazing contribution. Is that the sound you make with your tongue up xanupox's ass?

Seriously, why do you even post?

masteen · Post by **masteen** » December 28, 2002, 8:36 pm

kyoukan type-R wrote:If you advocate the torturing of these people then you also advocate the torture of Americans that are also caught by Arabs. It really is that simple.

It is a given that any American captured by them will be tortured. Given this, using your logic, we should torture our POWs as well.

We aren't torturing those folks to get them to convert to Christianity or even capitalism. We're trying to extract information. If hooking electrodes to the testicles of one of Osama's fanatics saves the lives of Americans or our allies, I say do it.

Neziroth · Post by **Neziroth** » December 28, 2002, 8:41 pm

There's a difference, maybe a small one, between "Brutal Interrogation" and "Torture".

I DO support Brutal Interrogation
I DO NOT support ripping out someone's fingernails with vice-grip pliers. (sp?)

You could argue that the article may have used Brutal Interrogation as a euphemism for Torture, and if they did then I do realize my argument is invalid.

Just like I said before, it's not going to work if you sit down a captured terrorist leader, (who I assume was captured with sufficient evidence that they are indeed a terrorist) and say "Come on... please! Tell me what you're gonna do next".

But if you keep them intimidated, perhaps with the promise of peaceful jailtime or confinement if they answer questions, then I can guarentee that you'll get further than you would otherwise. And if the information they gave you turns out to be false then you should just walk right back in and start over 10x worse.

See what I'm getting at? But it's the people like you, Kyoukan, who forced America to perform such interrogations in foreign countries. America can't equip themselves for it because of protesters who for some reason DON'T hate these terrorists. Give me one good why I shouldn't want to kill any anti-american terrorist. Please. They'd kill me in a heartbeat so why should I treat them with any respect / kindness? This isn't some perfect world where everyone gets respect and kind treatment, and as far as I'm concerned, if they hate me for being American than I have every fucking right in the world to hate them for being whatever they are.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » December 28, 2002, 8:42 pm

You honestly think that being put through unimaginable pain would not make you say absolutely anything to get them to stop torturing you, regardless of whether or not it's true? Do you really think that?

I could have you confessing that you enjoy bending over and giving up the ass for gay french canadian lumberjacks two nights a week in under 1 minute with a pair of pliers and a bic lighter. That doesn't make it true.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » December 28, 2002, 8:47 pm

Because if you don't treat them better than how they treat Americans, then where is your moral highground? What makes you better than them?

Neziroth · Post by **Neziroth** » December 28, 2002, 8:52 pm

My moral highground exists in the fact that I'm not the one flying planes into their buildings full of civilians.

I admit I hate them, and I admit I don't give a damn what happens to them, but the difference is I'm not MAKING things happen to them.

We didn't just grab them and start kicking ass and asking questions for no reason, we did it so we can find out what's coming and protect ourselves.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » December 28, 2002, 8:58 pm

Oh so you are torturing the corpses of the people that flew the planes into the WTC. I guess I didn't read the article properly then because here I thought it read that alleged and suspected people were being taken off to these countries and being held without any proof of guilt or innocence. I guess they all had Al'Queda nametags on.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · December 28, 2002, 9:00 pm

kyoukan type-R wrote:Because if you don't treat them better than how they treat Americans, then where is your moral highground? What makes you better than them?

Open a book. Watch TV. If you don't know the millions of ways America is better than the middle-east, then you may realize why I usually just post "Uh-Huh", because that is all that your posts warrant.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » December 28, 2002, 9:04 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Open a book. Watch TV. If you don't know the millions of ways America is better than the middle-east, then you may realize why I usually just post "Uh-Huh", because that is all that your posts warrant.

oh for fuck's sake just stop replying to me you stupid shithead.

beasted · Post by **beasted** » December 28, 2002, 9:06 pm

My moral highground exists in the fact that I'm not the one flying planes into their buildings full of civilians.

i really don't think he was talking about those specific terrorists.

kyoukan, don't nitpick on dumbshit details in order to ridicule when you do infact know what he's talking about.

however, i agree with your argument about morality; lowering ourselves to their level by advocating violence rather than trying to anull it is blatant hypocracy.

oh, btw, you're having a debate here, this isn't comedy hour. keep your piece of shit low-blows out of it.

edit: last statement only applies to kyoukan vs. neziroth, everyone else seems like they have jack and shit to contribute to intelligent conversation.

thanks.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » December 28, 2002, 9:08 pm

So absolutely anyone your government captures and names as a terrorist without due process is green lighted for abuse and torture?

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » December 28, 2002, 9:13 pm

lol I knew Kyoukan would get her panties in a bunch over this thread. It's not WW2 but hell it will do.

Neziroth · Post by **Neziroth** » December 28, 2002, 9:13 pm

It's not like they're choosing random names or something. I'm willing to bet they're going on evidence, maybe from other prisoners, maybe from financial records or whatever.

It says they're sending "Captured Terrorists" to those countries. Not "Terror Suspects". There's a difference.

Chances are if the Government puts the effort into capturing them they did it for a good reason, one which they don't have any obligation to share with you or me.

beasted · Post by **beasted** » December 28, 2002, 9:15 pm

in our country we have something called "probable cause", and "reasonable doubt".

people can be arrested and interrogated based on "probable cause".
... but you already knew that.

until you see hard proof of how AMERICA defines what the article quotes as "brutal interrogation methods", YOU can't define it as anything more than that. not "torture", and not "abuse", ok?

ok.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » December 28, 2002, 9:51 pm

I am still waiting on what Kyoukan thinks we should do. Perhaps make them swear that they will never bomb our civilians again, then let them go on their way. Yes, I think I read that in a *Canadian-ism for dummies* handbook. And before you flame me to the 7th layer of Dantes Inferno, fill me in on what we should do to these guys, THEN flame me all you want. Or........flame me without answering my question, yes, think I read that in the Canadian-ism for dummies too.

-edit- Oh, just so you won't have to post it again, I am a racist because I disagree with you. There you go, that's one less sentence you have to type out. On the house.

Sylvos · Post by **Sylvos** » December 28, 2002, 9:59 pm

man Krimson still owns.
ROOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » December 28, 2002, 10:32 pm

How about not violate basic international human rights laws? Is that so fucking much to ask?

I don't fucking reply to what I think you should do because the fucking onus is not on me to come up with what I think you should do to them. I don't give a flying fuck what you do to them as long as you don't act like a bunch of middle age fucking barbarians.

Besides, what I think you should do is GET THE FUCK OUT OF THEIR COUNTRIES AND STOP INTERFERING WITH THEM and watch terrorism against the west 100% vanish in a matter of days.

OH BUT KYOUKAN THEY HATE US AND ATTACK US BECAUSE THEY ARE JEALOUS OF OUR LIBERTIES SLKDJSFLKJSLFJS.

There, I jsut saved you the effort of brainlessly spewing your stupid fucking propaganda at me.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · December 28, 2002, 11:32 pm

kyoukan type-R wrote:How about not violate basic international human rights laws? Is that so fucking much to ask?

Here is the fucking thing you do not understand and never will. They don't give a fuck about human rights, so why the fuck should we? Nice people like you are as much a scourge on our society as them.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 29, 2002, 12:31 am

I say we send them to Canada instead and lock them in a room with kyoukan for 24 hours. We'd have all of their sekrits in no time. The smell and verbal abuse along with her constant shitting on the U.S. would make them think she's Bin Laden's bitch.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » December 29, 2002, 12:48 am

Anyone seen the movie "The Seige?"

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » December 29, 2002, 1:09 am

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Here is the fucking thing you do not understand and never will. They don't give a fuck about human rights, so why the fuck should we? Nice people like you are as much a scourge on our society as them.

I understand it fine. You are a racist ignoramus with zero grasp on how the world works. you are perfectly fine with abusing the human rights of anyone from the middle east because of the actions of a small group of anti west terrorists.

If you lower yourselves collectively to the level of a violent islamic fundamentalist, then what makes your society better than theirs?

HERE IS A HINT: It isn't your quality television programming or theme restaurants, as much as you think it might be.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · December 29, 2002, 1:22 am

You can call me a racist all you like. I like all "good" people. I hate all "bad" people. I give a rat's ass what color, race or creed they are.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » December 29, 2002, 1:27 am

kyoukan type-R wrote:If you lower yourselves collectively to the level of a violent islamic fundamentalist, then what makes your society better than theirs?

FREEDOM, Technology, good roads, jobs, housing, welfare, this is a fucking endless list because every country in the middle east is a total shithole compared to the US.

There is Prosperity in this country. We are not lowering ourselves to there level by responding in kind. These are violent criminals against our country and I don't care one bit if we hand them off to more forceful interrogators. We innovate and advance with several other positive countries (Canada, mexico, uk, france, russia)... and we are Forced to show our teeth because there are those who wish us harm.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » December 29, 2002, 1:37 am

better on a moral, level you enormous monument to stupidity. I don't give a fuck about roads and welfare in this discussion.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · December 29, 2002, 2:30 am

Thus the best way to respond to Kyocunt is ... "Uh-Huh"

It doesn't pay to try and discuss with this mental midget

Denadeb · Post by **Denadeb** » December 29, 2002, 3:16 am

I personally could give two shits if your black with a high yellow ass or white with black hair or any other damn color on the spectrum.

What I do care about is basic human rights. When a person decides they wanna go out and destroy innocent people because they feel that our freedoms and beliefs will ruin there beloved culture. They give up those human rights that they once had because they have become nothing more than rabid animals. I have no compassion for anyone that will kill an innocent person.

Estrosiath · Post by **Estrosiath** » December 29, 2002, 4:03 am

Sure. Torture them. They're fanatics. They'll make up everything. And you'll end up with a big load of nothing, and more hatred towards the US... Sooo smart!

Penlog · Post by **Penlog** » December 29, 2002, 5:00 am

Don't you know we are the only industrialized world country that still puts people to death? oooh yeah night rider is on later! lol

Mak · Post by **Mak** » December 29, 2002, 5:17 am

This sadly reminds me of that poor Afghani that was tortured so terribly in Guantanamo with that heinous air conditioning device. The poor guy was so chilly... makes me realize just how barbarous we Americans really are.

Jugata · Post by **Jugata** » December 29, 2002, 6:29 am

I have to agree about one thing....the US should mind it's own business. This is the only reason you guys are getting attacked. To be honest, if Canada wasnt so close to the US I'd just ignore you all and let you kill each other.

Oh and as for the middle east prob.....let them kill each other...problem solved. No need of prolonging it.

Neroon · Post by **Neroon** » December 29, 2002, 6:58 am

Gung wrote: The real threat today is North Korea. They have nukes. We're not guessing they have nukes, or surmising they may some day develop nukes, THEY HAVE THE BOMB. Several. And they have much better missle technology than Iraq will ever have. i.e. their bombs can go farther. They just kicked out the UN, they re-opened their Nuke factories that make warheads out of plutonium, and they're antagonizing the entire world about it. If there's one enemy the US -- hell the whole world -- should be concerned with now it is North Korea.

Not directed at you Gung, you just reminded me of the NK deal. In '94, we said turn off your reactors, and we will give you X barrels of oil to power and heat your country. They said ok. Last spring they say, "oops, we have a nuke problem, sorry!". Bad, yes. Against the spirit of the '94 deal, yes. However, instead of working through the UN to resolve the issue, we say "no more oil for joo!".

Their people are freezing and dying of starvation. They turned the damn reactors back on, I don't fucking blame them. What are they supposed to do? Desperate people perform desparate actions. Give them a few more months of freezing and dying of starvation, and see where it gets us. If a situation develops in NK, we will only have ourselves to blame.

As for torture. If what they were doing was not completely wrong, they wouldn't have to hide away in places like Cuba, etc. Wrong is wrong, it doesn't matter who the wrong is being commited against. Like Kyou said, it's all about keeping the moral high ground. We can't do it if we act like them.

Krewlade · Post by **Krewlade** » December 29, 2002, 7:25 am

The world is run by power the guy with the bigger gun makes the rules

They should torture the guys, get what information they can out of them, then kill them kill thier friends kill thier families. People dont seem to understand the way the world works. You can run through life living in your fantasy world where there is a good and bad guy. Funny thing is thats not how the world is. You let people walk on you once you better be prepared to become a doormat. If you dont destroy your enemy and control them they will be back, and they will come at you 10 times harder.

You break them you make an example of them or you open yourself up to every piddly ass POS that thinks they are a bad ass. You , don't think its nescessary to make an example of these people? You better open your eyes and view the real world. There is always someone looking to fuck you over. The question is, are gonna give em the chance? I don't knwo about you but I would do absouloutly anything to protect my loved ones.

I am not totally for everything the govt does but im behind them 100 percent in making an example of every one of these motherfuckers. I dont give a fuck if they bring thier families in and torture them to make them talk, Fuck em. They could give a shit about you. So its really nice you want to be a humanitarian and be nice to people thats great you have that right. Which by the way was given to you by the people who fought bled and died for you to have that right.

This is not about race, nationality,or religion this is not about being nice or humane, this is about protecting our loved ones. So before you go spewing forth humanitarian bullshit, why dont you think about how you would feel if these people had killed or are going to kill the people you love. I am betting you wouldnt be quite as eager to be nice to them or worry about thier rights.

There is a time for being humane and sitting down and talking to work things out. That time ends when one of the parties resorts to violence or becomes a threat.

VariaVespasa · Post by **VariaVespasa** » December 29, 2002, 9:13 am

Neziroth- "It's not like they're choosing random names or something. I'm willing to bet they're going on evidence, maybe from other prisoners, maybe from financial records or whatever.

It says they're sending "Captured Terrorists" to those countries. Not "Terror Suspects". There's a difference.

Chances are if the Government puts the effort into capturing them they did it for a good reason, one which they don't have any obligation to share with you or me."

Thats precisely the point- Under the civil rights laws, which are a fundamental part of the constitution, most especially the ones regarding Due Process, the government IS obliged to share their reasons with you or at least (when there are security issues, like protecting sources) with reliable impartial civilian bodies that the public trusts. It is one of THE prime safeguards for your civil rights. Without the requirements of due process the government can say anything it likes about anyone without offering ANY meaningful evidence and then do what they like to you. Someone's protesting the Gulf War on the Whitehouse steps? Thats embarrassing for the president, lets label him an enemy subversive and just disappear him for 7 years till we're bored enough to let him go, its not like he has any legal recourse since we dont have to show any reason for our action. Some friends of his protest his disappearance? Lets have a little chat with them and ask if they should be considered "subversives" too... Sound farfetched? Maybe we should ask the thousands of japanese-americans, full-fledged american citizens mind you, who were just arrested and interned without due process during WW2, and often had nearly everything they owned stolen into the bargain, how farfetched it is? Senator McCarthy enjoyed the breakdown in due process when it came to destroying peoples lives to feed his malevolent little career. I'm sure some of the student groups protesting the vietnam war fully waranted the errattic nature of due process regarding them too...

Due Process is at the very core of the constitution and the civil rights americans enjoy. Without the protections of due process the government or any agency of the government down to and including the trash collectors can do what the hell they like to you within their sphere of activities. Intelligence services could bug your house or just interrogate you on a whim, tax services could change your tax demands or issue you extra ones whenever they liked (mistakes will happen, teehehe), the police could arrest you on any pretext that suited them, and keep you in jail as long as they liked without permitting you access to the legal system (He's a bad one, just trust us...), the garbage men could even refuse to pick up your garbage (one of our collectors says you swore at him and tried to assault him/city hall says youre in arrears on your taxes so youre cut off till you pay up (they sent you a bill for an extra 2000 dollars for improvements they say you made to your property that you never did, but when you go to court to try and fight it the city tax department just says "trust us your honor, he owes us money". Without due process they dont have to show specifics, certainly not in a timely fashion, aint it fun?) ) and so on. The abuses possible when ANYONE is allowed to ignore the requirements of due process are extreme and are corrosively evil. Even a cursory examination of the history of nearly any dictatorship should be sufficient to demonstrate that.

Due process is one of the greatest gifts a person can have, and should always be jealously guarded. Once you allow the principle of due process to be compromised for any reason you risk it being the first step on the slippery slope. Authority has always been subject to mis-use; it MUST be challenged and made to show cause and follow due process at all times lest mis-use become epidemic. They must show that they are indeed not just picking random names and that they do have good reason. They dont necessarily have to show it to everyone if there are valid concerns about sources, but they DO have to show it to someone that the public trusts, someone or some group not a puppet of the people making the claims.

The concern here is that so far the Bush government has not done so, and the motivations of the Bush government itself are somewhat suspect.

I am in fact personally not terribly concerned about reliable interogation techniques, even harsh ones, being used on terrorism prisoners, provided they ARE reliable (Kyoukan has already rightly pointed out the unreliability of direct pain interrogation, but there may be more reliable methods available now), but I wanna be DAMN sure that the prisoners ARE in fact connected to terrorism FIRST, and thats where due process comes in, and where I distrust the Bush government. I have doubts that the process of determining who is and is not a terrorist among their prisoners is being conducted honestly or properly, that due process is being observed. A disturbing number of people on this board dont seem to even be aware of the issue though, and thats both dangerous and appalling. Too many of you are automaticly assuming that because these people have been arrested they must be guilty, without a shred of evidence or corroborating testimony to that effect. Innocent until proven guilty is another fundamental of american law... Shame on you.

*Hugs*
Varia

Atokal · Post by **Atokal** » December 29, 2002, 9:44 am

Can't be bothered having another debate about the EVIL empire of the USA. Kyoukan why do you bother? We all know you hate the USA and anyone/anything American.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » December 29, 2002, 9:54 am

Let me start by saying Fash you are a fucking gimp. The economic conditions of the US vs. the middle east have absolutely nothing to do with this debate. Your post is the epitome of biggotry. You think because your 2 car garage is full you have the right to treat them like shit? GTFO noob.

The rest of you guys are classifying the entire middle east as one big "they", and it's them against us, which is not really the case. That is why you come off as racist, because you take an action done by a handful of individuals from a society and blame the entire society for the action.

The only person who has made a successful logical argument for your side is Krewlade.

The world is run by power the guy with the bigger gun makes the rules

They should torture the guys, get what information they can out of them, then kill them kill thier friends kill thier families. People dont seem to understand the way the world works. You can run through life living in your fantasy world where there is a good and bad guy. Funny thing is thats not how the world is. You let people walk on you once you better be prepared to become a doormat. If you dont destroy your enemy and control them they will be back, and they will come at you 10 times harder.

You break them you make an example of them or you open yourself up to every piddly ass POS that thinks they are a bad ass. You , don't think its nescessary to make an example of these people? You better open your eyes and view the real world. There is always someone looking to fuck you over. The question is, are gonna give em the chance? I don't knwo about you but I would do absouloutly anything to protect my loved ones.

I am not totally for everything the govt does but im behind them 100 percent in making an example of every one of these motherfuckers. I dont give a fuck if they bring thier families in and torture them to make them talk, Fuck em. They could give a shit about you. So its really nice you want to be a humanitarian and be nice to people thats great you have that right. Which by the way was given to you by the people who fought bled and died for you to have that right.

This is not about race, nationality,or religion this is not about being nice or humane, this is about protecting our loved ones. So before you go spewing forth humanitarian bullshit, why dont you think about how you would feel if these people had killed or are going to kill the people you love. I am betting you wouldnt be quite as eager to be nice to them or worry about thier rights.

There is a time for being humane and sitting down and talking to work things out. That time ends when one of the parties resorts to violence or becomes a threat.

You have a nice argument here. You are a realist and you see things as they are and I respect that. But I have a vision of the way things should be, and I think it is humanity's obligation to pursue life as it should be, not as it is.

Yeah, I'm an idealist, but idealism is about setting goals and achieving them. We should not treat human beings inhumanely because it is inhumane, regardless of how they treat us. It is the golden rule....

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

If humanity as a whole followed this rule then we wouldn't be having this debate. Those people who break this rule, whether it be "them" or "us" are the ones holding us back.

In other words, YOU ARE THE IGNORANT MOTHERFUCKERS THAT ARE RESISTING THE EVOLUTION OF THE HUMAN RACE.

don't procreate you fucking dipshits.

"American equality has always been sour
An attitude I would like to devour
My name is Peace, this is my hour
Can I get just a little bit of power ? "--RHCP

VeeshanVault

CNN reports on captured Terrorists..

CNN reports on captured Terrorists..

.

lol

Re: .