Mitt Romney, caught on tape

[Fash]

So Mitt Romney went on a radio station and the whole thing was filmed. I don't know if they tried to disguise the cameras or what, but he certainly did not think he was on camera.

The DJ was only interested in talking about Mormonism and was trying to say Mitt was breaking his beliefs...

I think he handled it well, and I personally like seeing these people act normal. I think he even curses at one point.

Check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G9hydflwEQ

[Aslanna]

I'm confused by the whole "caught on tape" part of your topic. I think he did know. This looks like an official interview posted by his campaign.

[Fash]

No, but once his campaign got wind of it, they posted it too. He did great, nothing to be ashamed of... but you can tell he was relaxed and unguarded especially when they were 'on commercial'...

I apologize if the topic title was misleading... i liked that better than Mitch Gone Wild.

[miir]

That video along with 275 other videos was posted on youtube by his campaign.
Standard campaigning crap... is this really even a current event?

[Fash]

... it just happened like 2 days ago! Plus, there hasn't been a new thread in this forum for a week, gimme a break!!

[Xatrei]

There's definitely no "caught on camera" aspect to this. He was fully aware that the camera was rolling. I think that his campaign was anxious for the opportunity to get something like this on tape. It's perfect Youtube fodder, and it gives him the opportunity to distance himself from his church without really distancing himself from his church. As soon as a focus group had a positive reaction to Romney's performance here, his campaign has done everything they can to keep this video playing for the last 3 days. It was calculated and well executed. The talk show host, Jan Mickelson, handed Romney a big bump in his polling numbers, which I'm sure was not his intention.

As an aside, I think that of all the strange religious notions in which one can believe, Mormonism has to be one of the strangest. Frankly, it's just bizarre, and the fact that an educated adult can buy into it is just scary. Romney reciting his "end times" beliefs is something that should have people running away from him as quickly as possible (note that this portion of the tape is not the one being hyped in various media outlets - for good reason). Unfortunately among the evangelical right wing primary / caucus voters, this sort of thing is seen as endearing. Romney should have taken this talk show loony to task for his bizarre beliefs on the constitutional role of the court. Like many right wingers, this guy doesn't have a clue what the function of our court system is, which is why we find ourselves confronted with a dangerous number of right-wing judges willing to walk over our rights to project their religious sensibilities. That would have made for a much better discussion.

[Jice Virago]

As if getting all the Jews back in Israel so a guy on a stick can return from heaven is any less wacky.....

[Xatrei]

I think most people know my views on religion by this point. I won't vote for religious devotees of any stripe, but I'll give those that are forced to give lip service ("Yes, my nondescript, unconventional and undisclosed faith is very important to me. There, I said it. Can we talk about the issues now?") to the religious whackos in the country a break. On my wtf-o-meter, the tenets of the LDS crowd rank slightly higher than traditional christians because they add an entirely new and even more outrageous layer of lunacy to christianity.

[Akanae]

I don't know about that... mormons think jesus, the holy ghost and god are three separate people. That seems more likely to me than god sending his only son, who also happens to be himself, and oh also he's our conscience as well. And don't even get me started on Catholics... didn't the pope come out a few years ago and say that condoms WON'T prevent the spreading of AIDs and other STDs? Thats an extra serving of crazy in my opinion. How much do you actually know about the mormons and what they believe?

I don't think any one religion is crazier than the others (except Scientology, for obvious reasons). Just because you were raised a bigot doesn't mean it's OK to keep acting that way.

[Xatrei]

But what's the difference between Scientology and Christianity other than 2000 years for the latter to become established and accepted? Mormonism has the benefit of having many generations of people born into it to give it credibility that Scientology currently lacks. A few generations from now, Scientology will probably be tolerated by non Scientologists in the same way that Mormonism is tolerated now. The main difference between a cult and a religion is the broad tolerance, if not outright acceptance, by others brought about by its longevity. I can't say I'm an expert on Mormonism, but I have a casual familiarity with their history and beliefs. I've read a bit about the subject as I have about most major religions. There are a few mormons in my distant family, but none that I have any regular contact with.

To be clear, I consider any religious faith to be pretty crazy, and the differences between any of them on my hypothetical wtf-o-meter is tiny. Belief in these fairy tales is an abject failure of an individual's rationality.

[Zaelath]

I don't know about that... mormons think jesus, the holy ghost and god are three separate people. That seems more likely to me than god sending his only son, who also happens to be himself, and oh also he's our conscience as well. And don't even get me started on Catholics... didn't the pope come out a few years ago and say that condoms WON'T prevent the spreading of AIDs and other STDs? Thats an extra serving of crazy in my opinion. How much do you actually know about the mormons and what they believe?

I don't think any one religion is crazier than the others (except Scientology, for obvious reasons). Just because you were raised a bigot doesn't mean it's OK to keep acting that way.

After watching 1.8 series of "Big Love", mormons scare the crap out of me now... previously they were just "those well meaning idiots in the white shirts and dress pants knocking on my door".

Any religion that still includes "active conversion" is "crazier than the others" when the others include my (lapsed) anglican religion.

[Akanae]

While I agree that most of what scientologists believe is just as crazy as other religions. I believe it's well documented that L. Ron was researching different brain washing techniques when he wrote the science fiction books they base their whole religion on.

And I've never seen "Big Love" so I'm not sure what you are referring to about active conversion? Maybe how they try and fellowship people who are inactive in the church? I don't think that is too crazy, they honestly believe those people aren't going to the highest level of heaven and are trying to save their eternal soul.

[Boogahz]

I never had a Mormon knock on my door for any reason. None that I have known ever took part in what you seem to be referring to with the "active conversion" comment. Maybe you're confusing them with a Jehovah's Witness?

I find it humorous that so many people automatically assume that a religious person (especially any "branch" of Christianity) is trying to actively convert "non-believers." I think the atheists and agnostics are just as, if not more, guilty of this.

[Akanae]

There is a quicktime trailer up right now on a movie about the Mountain Meadows Massacre. Back in pioneer times a bunch of mormons massacred a wagon train, dressed like Indians. It wasn't condoned by the church or anything, just a bunch of religious crazies. The wording on the blurb about the movie is interesting - it happened on September 11th 1857 and they are calling it an act of terrorism.

http://www.apple.com/trailers/independe ... emberdawn/

[Sylvus]

I never had a Mormon knock on my door for any reason. None that I have known ever took part in what you seem to be referring to with the "active conversion" comment. Maybe you're confusing them with a Jehovah's Witness?

I find it humorous that so many people automatically assume that a religious person (especially any "branch" of Christianity) is trying to actively convert "non-believers." I think the atheists and agnostics are just as, if not more, guilty of this.

All mormon (males at least) adults are required to go on a 2 year mission. I believe when they are 18, it's usually before they go to college. The purpose of that mission is to try and convert people.

I can't tell you how many mormons, usually wearing ties, white shirts, and riding bicycles in pairs that I see on a regular basis or that have stopped at my house to talk to us. When I was younger, a couple of guys became friends with our family and would stop by to try and convert us about once a week. It wasn't going to happen, but it was interesting hearing their beliefs and having debates with them.

[Fairweather Pure]

There is a quicktime trailer up right now on a movie about the Mountain Meadows Massacre. Back in pioneer times a bunch of mormons massacred a wagon train, dressed like Indians. It wasn't condoned by the church or anything, just a bunch of religious crazies. The wording on the blurb about the movie is interesting - it happened on September 11th 1857 and they are calling it an act of terrorism.

http://www.apple.com/trailers/independe ... emberdawn/

Pretty slanted take on that little bit of history.

The Mormons were persecuted heavily back in the day. Shootings, lynchings and the like were common. Their leader was eventually assasinated, and many of their top leadership had been tared and feathered at one time or another for their beliefs. The Mormons were basically driven to Utah by the east. That wagon train was full of people that openly hated and were behind the persecution and death of many Mormons in the past. They tried to stroll through Utah on their way to California.

That would make a great movie though, because it was bloody vengence handed out by a group of Mormons.

Here is an intersting break down of the event.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_massacre

This little exerpt below shows that it was not an offically church sanctioned massacre, like say, the crusades. It was a pissed off group of Mormons with the will and means to extract revenge.

The express rider Haslam returned with a letter from Young ordering that the emigrants not be harmed, but did not arrive in time to prevent the attack and moreover, after the siege had started Haight had fully resolved to exterminate any adult witnesses.

President Young’s message of reply to Haight, dated September 10, read: "In regard to emigration trains passing through our settlements, we must not interfere with them until they are first notified to keep away. You must not meddle with them. The Indians we expect will do as they please but you should try and preserve good feelings with them. There are no other trains going south that I know of[.] f those who are there will leave let them go in peace."

According to trial testimony given later by express rider Haslam, when Haight read Young’s words, he sobbed like a child and could manage only the words, "Too late, too late."

Historians debate the letter's contents. Brooks believes it shows Young "did not order the massacre, and would have prevented it if he could." Bagley argues that the letter covertly gave other instructions.

Anyway, carry on with your discussion. I love seeing how far off base people can get when talking about Mormons.

[Fairweather Pure]

All mormon (males at least) adults are required to go on a 2 year mission. I believe when they are 18, it's usually before they go to college. The purpose of that mission is to try and convert people.

No. They're not required at all. It's stricktly volunteer. They also have to pay for a large portion of their missions, and they can leave anytime they want. Also, females can go on missions as well. It was decided that it was finally ok for women to go on missions because there was a drastic reduction in young male volenteers in the 80's. The church will give you another, more spiritual reason, but it's just horseshit. Elderly can also choose to go later in life too.

An interesting sports debate has to do with the age of Mormons going off on their missions. BYU was accussed of sending it's players off for 2 years to beef up and get better at their respective sport, then return as sophmores, bigger, stronger, and more skilled. Baseless smack of course, but it's an interesting angle.

Yes, Mormons and Jehova's Witnesses actively try to convert and expand thier religions via missionaries. Their best luck has been in poor, uneducated, and underdeveloped countries. Big shocker there, I know.

[miir]

Some young mormon fellows knocked on my door the other day while I was making dinner... chopping vegetables actually. Without thinking, I walked to the door with the bigass knife still in my hand.

They were very polite!

[Sylvus]

All mormon (males at least) adults are required to go on a 2 year mission. I believe when they are 18, it's usually before they go to college. The purpose of that mission is to try and convert people.

No. They're not required at all. It's stricktly volunteer. They also have to pay for a large portion of their missions, and they can leave anytime they want. Also, females can go on missions as well. It was decided that it was finally ok for women to go on missions because there was a drastic reduction in young male volenteers in the 80's. The church will give you another, more spiritual reason, but it's just horseshit. Elderly can also choose to go later in life too.

An interesting sports debate has to do with the age of Mormons going off on their missions. BYU was accussed of sending it's players off for 2 years to beef up and get better at their respective sport, then return as sophmores, bigger, stronger, and more skilled. Baseless smack of course, but it's an interesting angle.

Yes, Mormons and Jehova's Witnesses actively try to convert and expand thier religions via missionaries. Their best luck has been in poor, uneducated, and underdeveloped countries. Big shocker there, I know.

My mistake, I thought it was required. My brother and I had a family of mormons that were our closest friends when we were younger, and they "had" to go on missions. Perhaps that was more an imperative from the perspective of their parents than it was from the church.

[miir]

My mistake, I thought it was required.

You were probably thinking of Jehova's Witnesses.

[Fairweather Pure]

My mistake, I thought it was required. My brother and I had a family of mormons that were our closest friends when we were younger, and they "had" to go on missions. Perhaps that was more an imperative from the perspective of their parents than it was from the church.

Here, you're exactely right. There is a lot of inherent pressure from parents and other church members for kids to grow up and go on missions, much more on boys than girls.

[Akanae]

The Mormons were persecuted heavily back in the day. Shootings, lynchings and the like were common. Their leader was eventually assasinated, and many of their top leadership had been tared and feathered at one time or another for their beliefs. The Mormons were basically driven to Utah by the east. That wagon train was full of people that openly hated and were behind the persecution and death of many Mormons in the past. They tried to stroll through Utah on their way to California.

Yeah, after I posted the movie trailer I was going to come back and mention that part. Since I grew up learning all of that I kind of assume the persecution of mormons is common knowledge... but I guess it isn't?

I have to say though regardless of who the people trekking through Utah were it's the mormon policy to "turn the other cheek" and there is no excuse for what the early Utah settlers did.

[Jice Virago]

All religeons heavily induct their children, forcing this crap on them. The Mormons are no more guilty of that shit than any christian branch. As long as the politicians are forced to pay lip service to these fairy tale believing backwards ass retards, we will continue to fall behind the rest of the civilized world and saddled with embarresments like Creationism, Faith Based Initiatives, and Civil Unions. I am no bigot; I despise all religeons equally and with good reason.

[Boogahz]

All religeons heavily induct their children, forcing this crap on them. The Mormons are no more guilty of that shit than any christian branch. As long as the politicians are forced to pay lip service to these fairy tale believing backwards ass retards, we will continue to fall behind the rest of the civilized world and saddled with embarresments like Creationism, Faith Based Initiatives, and Civil Unions. I am no bigot; I despise all religeons equally and with good reason.

Um, neither church my parents attended required them to "heavily induct" me into them. Nothing was forced on me either...or were you just talking based on your own observations of "all religeons."

[Fash]

What religion doesn't raise their kids into the same religion?

[Akanae]

All religeons heavily induct their children, forcing this crap on them. The Mormons are no more guilty of that shit than any christian branch. As long as the politicians are forced to pay lip service to these fairy tale believing backwards ass retards, we will continue to fall behind the rest of the civilized world and saddled with embarresments like Creationism, Faith Based Initiatives, and Civil Unions. I am no bigot; I despise all religeons equally and with good reason.

Um, neither church my parents attended required them to "heavily induct" me into them. Nothing was forced on me either...or were you just talking based on your own observations of "all religeons."

What Jice said is accurate, all religions DO heavily induct children in. However some parents do not adhere to that policy as strictly as others, you imply that your parents go to two separate churches, if they were "hardcore" about their religion they wouldn't have married outside of it.

I too despise all organized religions equally, but I see how they are unfortunately necessary for some people. I do hope however that our society can grow out of the religion crutch eventually.

[Nick]

The Republicans really are fucked if this guy and Guiliani are the best they can come up with.

[Zaelath]

I never had a Mormon knock on my door for any reason. None that I have known ever took part in what you seem to be referring to with the "active conversion" comment. Maybe you're confusing them with a Jehovah's Witness?

I find it humorous that so many people automatically assume that a religious person (especially any "branch" of Christianity) is trying to actively convert "non-believers." I think the atheists and agnostics are just as, if not more, guilty of this.

An athiest will share their views with friends and associates, they won't however knock on your door on a Saturday morning trying to sell you a copy of Hustler and invite you to their swingers party.

[Boogahz]

I never had a Mormon knock on my door for any reason. None that I have known ever took part in what you seem to be referring to with the "active conversion" comment. Maybe you're confusing them with a Jehovah's Witness?

I find it humorous that so many people automatically assume that a religious person (especially any "branch" of Christianity) is trying to actively convert "non-believers." I think the atheists and agnostics are just as, if not more, guilty of this.

An athiest will share their views with friends and associates, they won't however knock on your door on a Saturday morning trying to sell you a copy of Hustler and invite you to their swingers party.

Speak for your own atheists! Mine do that now!

[Boogahz]

All religeons heavily induct their children, forcing this crap on them. The Mormons are no more guilty of that shit than any christian branch. As long as the politicians are forced to pay lip service to these fairy tale believing backwards ass retards, we will continue to fall behind the rest of the civilized world and saddled with embarresments like Creationism, Faith Based Initiatives, and Civil Unions. I am no bigot; I despise all religeons equally and with good reason.

Um, neither church my parents attended required them to "heavily induct" me into them. Nothing was forced on me either...or were you just talking based on your own observations of "all religeons."

What Jice said is accurate, all religions DO heavily induct children in. However some parents do not adhere to that policy as strictly as others, you imply that your parents go to two separate churches, if they were "hardcore" about their religion they wouldn't have married outside of it.

I too despise all organized religions equally, but I see how they are unfortunately necessary for some people. I do hope however that our society can grow out of the religion crutch eventually.

The over generalization that ALL religions do that is the absurd part of the statement. Sure, you might find a "branch" of each religion that does so, but that does not mean that every one practices this.

When I lived with my father (Methodist), the church required that I attend services at 3-5 other churches before they would even allow me to continue with joining his. My mother was raised Southern Baptist. I went to her church only a couple times at an age when all they allowed kids to do was play in the daycare. She stopped going when they found out she was a lesbian and "asked" her not to come back. I never implied that my parents were "hardcore" about their religious beliefs, and the fact that people automatically assume that every religious person is may be why so many have misconceptions about them. They both have places where they feel that they "belong," and I have not been pressured by either to follow their path.