Wrath of the Lich King

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » August 1, 2007, 1:04 pm

FAQ for World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King

What are the features of the new expansion?

Wrath of the Lich King builds on the rich foundation established in World of Warcraft and The Burning Crusade, providing a wealth of new content for players to explore. The harsh, forbidding continent of Northrend, home of the Lich King and his undead minions, will be uncovered on the world map, and to contend with the new challenges found there, players will be able to advance to level 80, acquiring potent new abilities and talents along the way.

In addition, Wrath of the Lich King will introduce the death knight hero class to World of Warcraft. Once certain criteria are met, players will be able to create a new death knight character, which will start at a high level. Furthermore, player-vs.-player battles will reach a new level of intensity with the addition of siege weapons and destructible buildings, not to mention a new battleground. There will also be an abundance of new quests, dungeons, monsters, items, and recipes -- as well as a new profession, inscription -- for players to try out. The expansion will include some additional character-customization options for players as well. We'll be going into more detail on all of these features in the months ahead.

How will the death knight class fit into the game?

The death knight combines martial prowess with dark, necromantic energies. Players might be familiar with the death knight from previously released Warcraft games -- most recently, in the campaigns for Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos and the Frozen Throne expansion, the former paladin Arthas became a death knight and wreaked havoc across Azeroth and Northrend before fusing with the spirit of Ner'zhul to become the Lich King. The death knight is the first hero class in World of Warcraft; once certain criteria are met, players will unlock the ability to create a new death knight character, which will begin play at a high experience level. We're currently exploring various options for how the death knight will play and the types of abilities at its disposal, and we'll be revealing more information about this new class as we get further along in development.

Will the death knight have any abilities from previously released Warcraft games?

The way we portrayed death knights in past Warcraft games is certainly a source of inspiration, but we are still determining how best to capture that feel within the mechanics of World of Warcraft, and haven't made any final determinations on specific abilities.

What role will the death knight play in groups and raids?

In general terms, the death knight can be considered a type of class that combines damage dealing and tanking, but naturally it will have an array of unique abilities as well.

What races will be allowed to play death knights?

We haven't yet made a final determination about which races can be death knights. However, the class will be available to both the Alliance and the Horde.

Will there be additional hero classes in the future?

Yes, we do intend to add more hero classes in the future, but right now our focus is on the current expansion.

What is the story background of the expansion?

Players last visited Northrend in the Warcraft III expansion, when Arthas Menethil fused with the spirit of Ner'zhul to become the Lich King, one of the most powerful entities in the Warcraft universe. He now broods atop the Frozen Throne, deep in Icecrown Citadel, clutching the rune blade Frostmourne and marshaling the undead armies of the Scourge. In Wrath of the Lich King, the greatest champions of the Alliance and the Horde will do battle with the Scourge amid Northrend's howling winds and fields of jagged ice, and ultimately face the Lich King himself.

Will players actually get to encounter Arthas himself?

Players will be skirmishing with the minions of Arthas from the moment they set foot on Northrend. He will be a constant presence as players progress through the expansion content -- which will culminate in a showdown with the dread Lich King himself.

Can you discuss some of the new talents and abilities that will be available from level 70 to level 80?

As with character advancement up to level 70, players will gain access to an array of potent and exciting new abilities and talents as they make their way from level 70 to level 80. However, it's still too early to get into specifics on these.

How long will it take to advance from level 70 to level 80?

We were pleased with the pacing from level 60 to level 70 in The Burning Crusade, and we intend to take a similar approach to pacing character advancement in Wrath of the Lich King. However, the specific amount of time that it will take players to reach level 80 will vary widely based on play style.

What can you reveal about Northrend?

The first area of Northrend we're showcasing is the Howling Fjord, a region of grasslands overlooking massive cliffs at the southeastern edge of the continent. This, along with the Borean Tundra, is the front line of the war against Arthas, and players will come face to face with his minions as soon as they set foot on Northrend. Eventually, as players progress further, they will explore the Grizzly Hills, Dragonblight, and more. We'll be showing off some of these new areas in the months ahead.

What's the level requirement to enter Northrend?

Players of any level who have purchased the expansion can visit Northrend. However, all of the content is designed for players level 68 and up.

How many new dungeons will be in the expansion?

The first dungeon players will enter is Utgarde Keep, which is intended for five players around level 70. Utgarde is inhabited by the Vrykul, a Viking-like race bent on proving their strength to the Lich King, who will raise the most worthy of their warriors to serve him beyond the grave. We intend to provide a variety of dungeons comparable to that in The Burning Crusade and will be revealing more details about some of these in the months ahead.

Do you plan to continue with the 25-player model for raids?

Yes, we've been pleased with the tactics, intensity, and variety of the 25-player raid model, and plan to continue with it.

In what ways will players be able to further customize their characters in the expansion?

In addition to the numerous new character-customization options that will be available with all of the new weapons and armor added by the expansion, we'll be offering some fun ways to alter both existing and new characters with regard to dances and hairstyles, but we're not ready to go into more detail just yet.

What can you reveal about the new profession coming with the expansion?

Inscription allows the player to permanently enhance their spells and abilities and to create mysterious items of power to use, trade, and sell.

What can players expect with regard to player-vs.-player combat in the expansion?

Players will be able to take control of siege weapons and use them to destroy opposing buildings, adding a new layer of complexity to PvP battles. Naturally, we'll be providing some fun places to put these new tools to good use, and we'll be revealing more information about them in the months ahead, in addition to the new battleground content being added.

Can you give a sneak peek at the new recipes and items in the expansion?

There will be hundreds of new recipes and thousands of new items available, but we're not ready to discuss specific examples just yet.

How many zones will be in the expansion?

Northrend will be roughly equivalent to Outland in terms of size and scope.

Will there be any new cinematic scenes?

Yes, our cinematics department is hard at work preparing a new intro movie for the expansion.

Release/Availability

Do you need to own the expansion to play with friends who have it?

There will be many aspects of the expansion that will be available to all players. However, in order to experience certain content, such as Northrend, or be able to play as a death knight, players must purchase the expansion.

Will there be an open beta test of the expansion?

We have not yet determined whether the expansion will require an open beta test. If we do decide to conduct a beta test, details will be posted on the official World of Warcraft website once we've gotten further along in the development process.

When will the expansion be released? How much will it cost?

We have not yet announced a release date for the expansion set. However, we expect to announce further details, including the release date and price, on our community website in the months ahead. Please stay tuned to [link] for more information.

Will there be a collector's edition?

We have not yet made any determination about whether there will be a collector's edition of Wrath of the Lich King. We'll be announcing details such as this closer to release.

Will a Mac version be available simultaneously with the PC version?

Yes. As with all of our games, Wrath of the Lich King will be compatible with and optimized for both the Windows and Macintosh platforms.

What are the system requirements?

We'll continue to ensure that the game is playable on a wide range of hardware. However, we have not made a final determination on the system requirements as yet.

Will the expansion be released globally at the same time?

We recognize that players throughout the world will be eager to experience all of the new content being added with Wrath of the Lich King, and we will make every effort to release the expansion simultaneously worldwide. However, there's always the possibility that unforeseen circumstances could delay the launch in any given region. We'll share the launch timing with players in each region as soon as the plans have been finalized.

What is the ESRB rating for the expansion?

The expansion has not yet been rated by the ESRB. However, we anticipate that it will receive the same rating that the original World of Warcraft received -- "Teen."

Hmm. I'm dubious about the addition of a hero class. So they need to balance it with all the non-hero classes, since it's the only one currently? Doesn't sound too heroic! I'd rather it had just been something you start from level 1 personally. Also disappointed that the size of Northrend will be roughly equal to Outlands, it felt too small to me.

cadalano · Post by **cadalano** » August 1, 2007, 1:59 pm

theyre just calling it a "hero class" to sell it. thats a buzzword that is sure to cause most WoW players to walletgasm. its clearly totally different from the original concept

it will also allow them to say "SEE?? HERO CLASSES!! JUST LIKE WE PROMISED LAST DECADE. YES BLIZZARD ALWAYS DELIVERS JOB WELL DONE LETS CELEBRATE"

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » August 1, 2007, 2:02 pm

Haha.. well, at least I can stop saving up low level items for my DK!

Sabek · Post by **Sabek** » August 1, 2007, 2:11 pm

we'll be offering some fun ways to alter both existing and new characters with regard to dances and hairstyles

OMFG NEW DANCES FOR THE FREAKING WIN

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » August 1, 2007, 5:06 pm

All I have to say is that the class had better be available to casual players, instead of just cat asses. If it is going to require flags from every raid zone, 10 jillion ruppies, or some other assinine thing, they can lick my balls on that one.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » August 1, 2007, 5:16 pm

OMFG NEW DANCES FOR THE FREAKING WIN

The cybering will be furious in Ironforge tonight.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » August 1, 2007, 5:22 pm

Jice Virago wrote:All I have to say is that the class had better be available to casual players, instead of just cat asses. If it is going to require flags from every raid zone, 10 jillion ruppies, or some other assinine thing, they can lick my balls on that one.

Cat asses?

cadalano · Post by **cadalano** » August 1, 2007, 5:53 pm

Jice Virago wrote:All I have to say is that the class had better be available to casual players, instead of just cat asses. If it is going to require flags from every raid zone, 10 jillion ruppies, or some other assinine thing, they can lick my balls on that one.

you have to get to a certain level on your main (prolly 75-80ish) which then unlocks the new class. You start at lvl 55 (may change)

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » August 1, 2007, 6:01 pm

Dregor Thule wrote:
Jice Virago wrote:All I have to say is that the class had better be available to casual players, instead of just cat asses. If it is going to require flags from every raid zone, 10 jillion ruppies, or some other assinine thing, they can lick my balls on that one.
Cat asses?

Maybe a reference to a member of my WoW guild/alliance, Catassia?

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » August 2, 2007, 1:22 am

Yes, wtf is cat asses?

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » August 2, 2007, 2:25 am

Cat Asses-
People who sit on their ass, never moving unless it is to obtain food or go to the bathroom (sometimes not even then) and play constantly. We were all among this catagory, back in EQ1, for the most part.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » August 2, 2007, 3:13 am

Ohhhhh.

OK, I understand now.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » August 2, 2007, 10:06 am

That's one of the more obscure insults I've heard in a long time! Right up there with Macaca.

miir · Post by **miir** » August 2, 2007, 10:34 am

I've always understood the cat's ass to be along the lines of the dog's bollocks... ie: something good.
I never understood why calling something literally dog's balls would be good until I asked a british friend...

Me: Why are the dog's bolloks good?
Him: Because he licks 'em.

I guess the same applies to cat's asses.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » August 2, 2007, 12:35 pm

Jice Virago wrote:Cat Asses-
People who sit on their ass, never moving unless it is to obtain food or go to the bathroom (sometimes not even then) and play constantly. We were all among this catagory, back in EQ1, for the most part.

aka poopsock!

Kwonryu DragonFist · Post by **Kwonryu DragonFist** » August 2, 2007, 3:23 pm

The Velious expansion for WoW!

Snow, snow and more SNOW! Go go Arthas

masteen · Post by **masteen** » August 2, 2007, 7:01 pm

cadalano wrote:
Jice Virago wrote:All I have to say is that the class had better be available to casual players, instead of just cat asses. If it is going to require flags from every raid zone, 10 jillion ruppies, or some other assinine thing, they can lick my balls on that one.

you have to get to a certain level on your main (prolly 75-80ish) which then unlocks the new class. You start at lvl 55 (may change)

Oh thank the raptor jessu that I won't have to drag my DK through the mid-level desert again.

Drinsic Darkwood · Post by **Drinsic Darkwood** » August 2, 2007, 8:11 pm

Kwonryu DragonFist wrote:The Velious expansion for WoW!

Funny you say that when you consider the similarities...

A massive frozen wasteland... with dwarves, spiders (Nerubians), a forest nestled in the middle of this wasteland (with one of the Great Trees, so we can assume it's intended to lead to the Emerald Dream, a.k.a. Plane of Nature), storm giants, a storm giant dungeon with an army of crystal golems, a tribe of trolls (instead of orcs) in the east, a vast dragon graveyard, a temple the dragons reside in... yeah, that doesn't sound familiar.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » August 3, 2007, 4:30 pm

Whoops, posted in the wrong thread!

Official website is up: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/wrath

Also, the 1up.com info I posted in the wrong thread:

It's official: The next World of WarCraft expansion is coming; it's called Wrath of the Lich King, and will open up the continent of Northrend to players of level 68 and above. This second expansion will focus on the return of Arthas Menethil, a.k.a. the Lich King, ruler of the Scourge, and one of the most powerful beings in all of Azeroth. This semi-sequel to the saga of Arthas (from WarCraft III: The Frozen Throne) is intended for experienced players with a couple level 70 characters in their pockets.

The September issue of Games for Windows: The Official Magazine (on sale soon) has tons of details, but for now here's a quick rundown of what's in store....

Level Cap: 80
Skill Cap: 450
Continent: Northrend
Number of Zones: 10 (tentatively), for levels 68 and above
Profession: Inscription
Class: Death Knight (first-ever Hero Class)
Features: Outdoor PVP zone with siege weapons and destructible buildings.
Release Date: You're kidding, right?

The biggest news for existing players is the introduction of the Death Knight, the first new class since WOW's launch -- and, coincidentally, its first Hero Class, too. Other big new features include the introduction of siege weapons and destroyable buildings in both a new Battleground and a brand-new outdoor PVP zone. What Wrath of the Lich King won't have is any content for new characters: no new races, no new level-1-to-20 zones back in the old world, and little change to the old world.

Here's what we know so far:

The Story
Having cleaned up Outland (or at least having set things in decent enough order for now), the Alliance and Horde turn their heads northward to the continent of Northrend, where a terrible threat has gone unchecked for far too long: that of Lich King and his undead army, the Scourge. On the day Wrath of the Lich King launches, players will be able to set sail from various points in old Azeroth and join the fight against Arthas Menethil.

New Continent: Northrend
Having learned a valuable lesson about funneling 8.5 million players into once single starting zone with The Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King lets players pick a zone on either side of the continent to start from: Borean Tundra in the west or Howling Fjord in the east. Each zone has level-equivalent quests (appropriate for approximately level 68 through 72) and one Hellfire Peninsula-style instance hub with multiple dungeon wings for level 70 characters, level 80 characters, and raiders. While Northrend immediately calls to mind ice and snow, Blizzard doesn't want to make those themes dominate Northrend completely-expect as much variety as ever, only not quite as weird and wild as Outland.

Northrend's indigenous inhabitants include a Viking-like race called the Vrykul: 15-foot-tall humanoids with a strong Norse influence. Most Vrykul you encounter will be your enemies, as they've been in Northrend so long that the Lich King holds a lot of sway over them. Another friendly race -- the walrus-like Tuskarr -- will serve as a cute little counterpoint to the lumbering undead-loving oafs.

New Zone Type: Outdoor PVP
One of Northrend's 10 new zones (final count still tentative) is an outdoor PVP zone that introduces the concept of siege weapons (Meat Wagons, Steam Tanks, etc.) and destructible buildings. Blizzard describes the outdoor zone as basically a "non-instanced Battleground" where completing objectives earns world-wide bonuses for your side (Think Spirit Shard buff in Auchindoun instances). The PVP zone is entirely avoidable (if you're the carebear type), and seige weapons won't be useable outside their designated PVP area.

New Hero Class: Death Knight
World of WarCraft's first Hero Class is a plate-wearing tank/DPS hybrid that works a little something like this: When players hit level 80, they'll be able to embark on a quest (similar in difficulty to the Warlock's epic mount quest, back before the level cap was raised to 70) that unlocks the ability to create a Death Knight character. The Death Knight starts at a high level (somewhere around 60 or 70, though Blizzard isn't certain yet), so you won't have to grind your way back up all over again. It's intended as an alternative, advanced class for end-game use only.

Rather than using rage, energy, or mana, Death Knights have a special "rune sword" displayed beneath their health bar, onto which the player can etch six different runes (choose between Frost, Blood, and Unholy). Different abilities require different mixes of runes, and using abilities consumes the requisite runes until a cooldown timer causes them to be available again. Stuff like talents, spells, and other specifics are still being finalized. So are key questions like what races can be a Death Knight (start a Gnome petition now) and whether unlocking the Hero Class on one server means you can create a Death Knight on any server.

New Profession: Inscription
Wrath of the Lich King will introduce a new profession called Inscription that will let players customize individual spells and abilities in their spell book -- to change the cooldown timer on a Fireball, for example, or alter the crit rate of a healing spell.

There's lots more in the upcoming September issue of Games for Windows: The Official Magazine, on sale in the next couple weeks, including candid insight from the developers, details on some of the new dungeons not shown at BlizzCon, and word that The Burning Crusade ain't over yet...there's more BC content coming beyond Zul'Aman.

cadalano · Post by **cadalano** » August 3, 2007, 5:15 pm

i'm going to shit on a limb and guess that blizz won't be doing a F&F or public beta on this expansion. they really didnt get anything out of it for TBC

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » August 3, 2007, 5:23 pm

Eh, I'd be ok with that. I hate how everything is "known" before stuff goes live as is. I'd just have to wait and see how the DK played, make hitting 80 and doing the quest on my shaman a priority and then who knows from there!

Sargeras · Post by **Sargeras** » August 3, 2007, 10:55 pm

I'm here now. Just got out of the UI panel.

I flipped off the entire crowd during the Q/A about ret itemization during the Raids and Dungeons, some dipshits mouthing off while I'm trying to ask my question to Tigole. It will probably be on YouTube later tonight.

cadalano · Post by **cadalano** » August 4, 2007, 12:05 am

oh man, now i'm sorry i didnt go!

Sargeras · Post by **Sargeras** » August 4, 2007, 7:43 pm

Tigole got a good laugh out of it, followed by saying "That's from ret pallies everywhere."

Sargeras · Post by **Sargeras** » August 6, 2007, 8:51 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7YzRpXcwS4&NR=1

3:50 in the video.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » August 6, 2007, 9:37 pm

Sargeras wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7YzRpXcwS4&NR=1

3:50 in the video.

hehe, was that you giving the crowd the finger? classic.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » August 6, 2007, 11:02 pm

Hehehe, nice Sarge.

Sargeras · Post by **Sargeras** » August 7, 2007, 1:11 am

http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/9505

TenTonHammer interviewed my guildie and I.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » August 7, 2007, 1:15 am

Sargeras wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7YzRpXcwS4&NR=1

3:50 in the video.

Funny stuff. Though, I hated Tig's answer. If you don't want a 25-man raid to be disappointed when the ret pally loot drops, don't drop it if there's no ret pally in the raid... if there is and "that ret pally shit dropped again!" that would be your normal time-sink/cock-block, as would the "pattern" drops in the EQ PooP expansion. They should be deliriously happy about drops you can't use...

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » August 7, 2007, 4:10 am

Heroic Badges was their solution? Jesus Christ. I feel sorry for ret pallies and moonkin.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » August 7, 2007, 4:20 am

Heh, yeah. Between 2 characters at 70 I've almost farmed up enough for one item on one of them... and it's a mage, which I bet gets groups a shitload easier than a ret pally/moonkin

masteen · Post by **masteen** » August 7, 2007, 4:31 pm

If anyone in my guild even tried to bring a retadin to raids or guild heroics, I'd boot them on general principle. Keep in mind, I tolerate furries, moonchickens, tankadins, whatever, but FUCK RET.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » August 7, 2007, 10:38 pm

I play horde, so I've never met one. Are they that bad when MS warrior is SO awesome?

Sargeras · Post by **Sargeras** » August 7, 2007, 11:35 pm

masteen wrote:If anyone in my guild even tried to bring a retadin to raids or guild heroics, I'd boot them on general principle. Keep in mind, I tolerate furries, moonchickens, tankadins, whatever, but FUCK RET.

Ouch.

cadalano · Post by **cadalano** » August 8, 2007, 10:38 am

I play horde, so I've never met one. Are they that bad when MS warrior is SO awesome?

...blood elf?

masteen is talking about PVE anyway so MS warriors are just as awful there as Ret paladins.

As far as PVP goes, ret paladins can produce absolutely insane burst damage but its too random. Their burst is crit oriented as well, so their effectiveness against actually good teams diminishes quickly due to resilience. theyre also far too kiteable in comparison to a warrior. Hamstring/Piercing & 15s Intercept > BoF & SoJ

..and throw in..
Pummel/Intercept > HoJ & Repent
Mortal Strike Heal Reduction > ?????
Execute > Hammer

you've also got Intervene, Shouts, Sweeping Strikes, Whirlwind.. the little bit of extra survivability from Defensive.... etc....

Psyloche · Post by **Psyloche** » August 8, 2007, 11:04 am

Arms warriors are coming a long way from what they were. Some top end guilds run with one or two to buff the melee damage. Imp Slam/Windfury/Sword Spec are really bringing out some interesting numbers, in addition to bumping all melee damage by 4% or so. Without a Shaman though, I don't see them doing anything remotely close.

I only play Horde and as far as I can tell, the only Palys we have on our server are Holy. There might be a few Prot, but no Rets that I see. I know I play a Holy paladin now and then because of how long a it pained me to fight teams with a Holy Paladin behind them, there's so many damn tricks to use. I've gone into 1v1 against a few classes and walked away winning the Arena match just because of the staying power of Holy Paladins. I think the longest was like an 8 minute 1v1 against some MS Warrior with a Tier 1 BS Sword.... I think he shed some tears after that fight.

Edit: I still hate them for coming to a raid as MS though.

cadalano · Post by **cadalano** » August 8, 2007, 11:32 am

i ended up 1v1 with my balance druid against a paladin in Blade's Edge. We went for, I kid you not, 2 hours and 15 minutes. We only spent about 30 minutes actually trying to kill eachother, where basically I tried to lure him out into the open and cyclone him at low health to wind up Starfires. But any time I got him low he'd just bubble and run to a pillar where he could easily break LOS and heal up. If he tried to kill me I just cyclone and heal up. On top of all that, this was about 2 weeks after I started using the druid in place of my rogue for arena, so her gear was pretty awful. The entire time his dead teammates were sending me hate tells to try to distract me, haha

Anyway, his teammates kinda pissed me off or I would have let them have it... and mine had already gone to bed since this was our last game... it was a saturday.. so I was in for the long haul. I eventually offered to Starfire him 3 times with a 15% chance to stun on each.. if he gets stunned, I win. He laughed at first but after another hour he finally agreed. He didn't get stunned though, but I'm pretty sure that he wouldn't have left even if he'd been stunned :}

We ended up fighting them a few weeks later after I'd gotten my druid some hot gear and we smoked em. The win felt good!

Psyloche · Post by **Psyloche** » August 8, 2007, 11:44 am

Wow, I got annoyed at the 14 minute match I was talking about, I just wouldn't even bother at that point... or maybe I would I don't know lol. I had it come down to a melee match between my priest and another priest once and I ended up winning cause my Shadowfiend popped first and mana burned her when hers popped.

Sargeras · Post by **Sargeras** » August 9, 2007, 2:38 pm

I kinda wish you got to go Adela. I hung out with Rynoa and Ravvenn for a bit while Furor did the Quest & Lore panel with Metzen.

cadalano · Post by **cadalano** » August 9, 2007, 4:29 pm

aaah nostalgia.

probably would have gone.. my pal that works at blizz was begging for people to go because he was just as turned off by the official events as I was. Just too much going on RL anyway. they should have that shit in Orlando next time and I'm set

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » August 16, 2007, 2:33 am

is itemization really the problem though? i thought it was the threat cap, i've seen some geared ass paladins put out sick dps... at least pre windfury nerf.

cadalano · Post by **cadalano** » August 16, 2007, 4:59 pm

if you know of a WWS of a high performing ret paladin i'd really like to see it

cadalano · Post by **cadalano** » August 17, 2007, 5:24 pm

http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?guild=fbbo3n4kdpwdu

thats about as good of an example as I can imagine.

when other melee classes are loading 500+ DPS over you... and sometimes doubling your DPS.... your utility really doesnt matter :}

Sargeras · Post by **Sargeras** » August 23, 2007, 12:57 pm

This is what I came up with after about a 5 minute search on the forums. His gear is just a bit above mine. Search for 'Thordurin' on the armory to see mine. I know the EJ forum has a huge thread going on about current ret viability and there's tons of SS's and WWS there. I'll have to do a search for a Hyjal/BT alliance paladin and see if he has anything posted.

Luxury, Eleventh Hour, Earthen Ring
Karathress: http://eleventhhour.org/wws/wws-2007072 ... index.html
Morogrim: http://eleventhhour.org/wws/wws-2007071 ... index.html
Hydross: http://eleventhhour.org/wws/wws-2007082 ... index.html
Leotheras: http://eleventhhour.org/wws/wws-2007080 ... index.html
Lurker: http://eleventhhour.org/wws/wws-2007082 ... index.html

I specifically searched for a WWS of an alliance paladin. Seal of Blood is significantly better for the overall damage output of ret paladins. Throw in Spiritual Attunement and being grouped with a shadow priest, a BE can stay meleeing much much longer than any alliance paladin.

I know all about Grant, his gear makes me happy in the pants.

*~*stragi*~* wrote:is itemization really the problem though? i thought it was the threat cap, i've seen some geared ass paladins put out sick dps... at least pre windfury nerf.

You are correct, threat is our greatest issue right now. Our burst threat spikes so high sometimes because we can combo crit for 4-5k damage in a second, and there's absolutely no way to avoid what's incoming other than bubble. But bubble doesn't reduce threat, it's just a 12 second avoidance. You have to hope and pray that by the time that bubble drops, the tank has greater threat than you generated.

I brought up off-spec itemization because when you look at all the gear in high-end that doesn't include the tier sets, almost every single paladin-oriented item (+int plate) is healing only. To me, that seems like Blizz isn't encouraging people to play off-specs, despite the fact that they exist in the first place. Whereas you look at other items that are intended to be for a specific class, and yet can still compliment an offspec, hence lock and s-priest was the example I used.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » October 1, 2007, 6:11 pm

http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?pager ... Id=3163178

Some new details on WofLK.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » October 2, 2007, 8:21 am

For your paladin with access to "average" gear, Kara and below items is a DPS spec realistic? The couple that I've grouped with don't seem to do all that much more damage than prot warrior. I see some nice spikes here and there on the meters that makes them think they're doing damage, but they're doing less than half of what my hunter gimp does over the course of an instance.

cadalano · Post by **cadalano** » November 20, 2007, 12:25 pm

F&F Alpha/Beta is apparently not too far off.. might not be the average 7 years until this expansion after all

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » November 20, 2007, 3:25 pm

That's good to hear. I'm still very curious how the DK will play. I'm actually enjoying my enh shaman role in raids currently, so it's going to be tougher than I thought to drop this character and switch.

I read a Vivendi financial statement or something claiming the expansion would come in the first half of 2008. We'll see about that tho!

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » November 20, 2007, 3:30 pm

They released 2.3 about one and a half months before i thought they would, so I hope this is true! Isn't 2.4 Sunwell which is a winged zone with 2-3 5 mans and a 25 man? They always seem to take especially long on 25 man stuff (or 40 man, before TBC), so hopefully that won't slow down the expansion.

As for DK's...I feel like they should release multiple hero classes at the same time, or it's going to be DK's everywhere. I know I want to try one out.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » November 20, 2007, 5:58 pm

Sunwell Plateau is going to be a 25 man raid instance and 1 5 man instance. The previously stated plan was to have 2.4 on the PTR shortly after 2.3 went live, but the bugs introduced in 2.3 are taking a front seat so they've pushed 2.4 back. They have said that it will be on the PTR before the Christmas tho.