Sheehan challenges Pelosi

Morgrym · Post by **Morgrym** » July 9, 2007, 1:30 pm

A California resident, Sheehan said she would run as an independent in Pelosi's northern California congressional district, which is centered in San Francisco

Sheehan Lunacy Continues

Would people in Crackafornia really vote for this nut job?

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 9, 2007, 1:40 pm

I would. She's right. The government should pay her millions for killing her son in an obvious bullshit war. She's got the balls to speak out against the Bush Administration. We need people like that in there giving us a voice the man is always trying to keep muted.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » July 9, 2007, 1:44 pm

Nonsense... Her son would be rolling in his grave over this shit. She's received wayyyyyyyyy more press than she should have. Sorry your son died, but he signed up for it, and he believed in it, now shut the fuck up and grow old peacefully.

She doesn't have a shot against Pelosi and despite what may be represented in the media, the majority of americans are NOT in favor of cutting and running in iraq.

miir · Post by **miir** » July 9, 2007, 3:44 pm

the majority of americans are NOT in favor of cutting and running in iraq

The majority of americans would have prefered to not be there in the first place.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 9, 2007, 3:48 pm

miir wrote:
the majority of americans are NOT in favor of cutting and running in iraq
The majority of americans would have prefered to not be there in the first place.

Oh yeah? Where's that poll from back then before we went into Iraq? I'd love to see that poll.

miir · Post by **miir** » July 9, 2007, 3:54 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
miir wrote:
the majority of americans are NOT in favor of cutting and running in iraq
The majority of americans would have prefered to not be there in the first place.
Oh yeah? Where's that poll from back then before we went into Iraq? I'd love to see that poll.

What poll?
When Bush was pushing WMDs in Iraq?
Or was it the Iraqi/Al-Qaida connection?
Or was it when he was pushing Iraqi Liberation?
Maybe it was after Mission Accomplished?

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 9, 2007, 3:55 pm

miir wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
miir wrote:
the majority of americans are NOT in favor of cutting and running in iraq
The majority of americans would have prefered to not be there in the first place.
Oh yeah? Where's that poll from back then before we went into Iraq? I'd love to see that poll.
What poll?
When Bush was pushing WMDs in Iraq?
Or was it the Iraqi/Al-Qaida connection?
Or was it when he was pushing Iraqi Liberation?
Maybe it was after Mission Accomplished?

You made that statement Miir. I'm asking you to back it up.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » July 9, 2007, 4:00 pm

miir wrote:
the majority of americans are NOT in favor of cutting and running in iraq
The majority of americans would have prefered to not be there in the first place.

I agree, I'm one of them (I think all of us here at VV are)... but that doesn't matter, at all.

miir · Post by **miir** » July 9, 2007, 4:05 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:You made that statement Miir. I'm asking you to back it up.

Those were clearly in the form of a question....

Here's some polls!!

http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 9, 2007, 4:11 pm

miir wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:You made that statement Miir. I'm asking you to back it up.
Those were clearly in the form of a question....

Here's some polls!!

http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm

READ Miir READ

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Oh yeah? Where's that poll from back then before we went into Iraq? I'd love to see that poll.

miir · Post by **miir** » July 9, 2007, 4:13 pm

I dunno, you're the one who brought it up.
I have no idea what poll you're talking about and I really have no idea how it pertains to this discussion.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 9, 2007, 4:15 pm

miir wrote:I dunno, you're the one who brought it up.
I have no idea what poll you're talking about and I really have no idea how it pertains to this discussion.

No. You brought it up.

miir wrote: The majority of americans would have prefered to not be there in the first place.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » July 9, 2007, 4:19 pm

As far as I remember the majority of American's did indeed get caught up in the idiotic hyseria of wanting to invade Iraq. At least nowadays they can't say we didn't warn them (although they still try to, with hilarious results).

miir · Post by **miir** » July 9, 2007, 4:28 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:No. You brought it up.

You misunderstand what I am saying.
However, I could have been more succinct if I had said "preferred to not have been there in the first place"

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 9, 2007, 4:44 pm

miir wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:No. You brought it up.
You misunderstand what I am saying.
However, I could have been more succinct if I had said "preferred to not have been there in the first place"

Sure Miir. NOW, they do. Hindsight is 20/20 though. Decisions have to be made. Not all of them are going to be good or work out perfectly. The pessimist will always find ways to be correct 100% of the time. He can find fault in everything. Your posts in this thread have offered nothing. You are a troll.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » July 9, 2007, 8:48 pm

Nick wrote:As far as I remember the majority of American's did indeed get caught up in the idiotic hyseria of wanting to invade Iraq. At least nowadays they can't say we didn't warn them (although they still try to, with hilarious results).

If they did, it was a slim majority. There was a landslide of support for invading Afghanistan based on 9/11 even though it was impossible to have known in the period afterwards who was responsible (with the kind of certainty that you should have before you start killing people, even brown people).

Certainly, there were enough idiots + right wing faithful to accept whatever bullshit excuse the emporer gave them for Iraq to pass a simple vote, but I don't think you would have had 2/3.

However, since Bush lied, and lied, and lied, to get into Iraq, and you can't unmake history; you have to stay the course. Am I rite?

Animale · Post by **Animale** » July 9, 2007, 10:58 pm

Just going to bring this up Mid... before the invasion of Iraq I made a post saying that the risk and costs of the invasion were not in line with the possible rewards. Now, I may be recalling incorrectly, but you were of the mind that Iraq would be the first dominoe of freedom in the middle east, a beacon for the world, etc. etc. I pointed out that the riskof a failed state, a military quagmire, or an all-out civil war when the Kurds decided to become independent far outweighed those possible benefits.

Now, we are blessed with "20/20" hindsight and it looks like many of the risks which I pointed out are going to become, if are not already, the reality. Now, does this make me happy? Hell no, and at the time I hoped that my predictions would be wrong. The question now, is WHEN do we decide that our failed Iraqi adventure is time to end, and in what manner do we end it. Because it IS failed, the only question now is how do we remove ourselves from the equation without leaving behind someone in power FAR worse than the man we removed.

It is just frustrating when one sees beforehand the mistakes that will be made, points them out, is ignored and ridiculed for those opinions... THEN is told that the mistakes are somehow his fault when they happen due to some "morale of the troops" bullshit.

Animale

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 10, 2007, 3:03 am

You were right Animale. You just show your posts to the White House so you can get a job there and help us not to make this same mistake again. Congratulations on being right.

Animale · Post by **Animale** » July 10, 2007, 3:18 am

The fact of the matter is that people much more in the know that me DID tell the White House and the Military what could happen if things weren't done right. They were summarily ignored or shown the door. History will be the true judge of W's Presidency, but as for now we are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Again, the question for us NOW is what do we do about Iraq (and on the larger scale the overall "War on Terror" bullshit being fed us from on high). Do we continue to give this administration a blank check? Do we continue on the hope that somehow, throwing more money and lives at the problem will make it go away? Does apathy and "support the trooooooops!" win the fucking day while the naysayers of the world say it's just another cog in the great cycle of the world.

When does the cycle stop? Can we stop it, or is it already too late for this round...

Animale

p.s. You are a condescending asshole when you wanna be Mid... here I am asking for a solution and you say "get a job in the white house", like they'd hire a chemist to tell them what to do on foreign affairs. Now, when I'm more right than the entire administration... isn't it FAR past time to worry about who's calling the shots?

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 10, 2007, 3:26 am

No. In every situation you will have your detractors. Don't you think in every meeting before anything is decided you have those who say it will work and those who say it wont. There has been plenty of sucessful military missions over the past 15 years. Do you really think every was on board before they happened? Do you honestly think that if the interenet existed back 15 years ago for Desert Storm that you wouldn't have had a ton of internerds smashing Bush and claiming it would go horribly and we should be there, etc. All I'm asking for, is for you to look a little bigger than situation at hand you are commenting on. When I make such a small minded, focused statement and I get called out on it, I learn from it. Why is it so hard for everyone else?

miir · Post by **miir** » July 10, 2007, 10:52 am

Do you honestly think that if the interenet existed back 15 years ago for Desert Storm that you wouldn't have had a ton of internerds smashing Bush and claiming it would go horribly and we should be there, etc.

Um... no.
There was a very specific goal an purpose to Desert Storm.
There was almost unanimous support in the US and worldwide for that military operation.
It was UN backed and there were over 30 nations willingly involved in the coalition.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 10, 2007, 11:05 am

miir wrote:
Do you honestly think that if the interenet existed back 15 years ago for Desert Storm that you wouldn't have had a ton of internerds smashing Bush and claiming it would go horribly and we should be there, etc.
Um... no.
There was a very specific goal an purpose to Desert Storm.
There was almost unanimous support in the US and worldwide for that military operation.
It was UN backed and there were over 30 nations willingly involved in the coalition.

True. I understand what you are saying. I'm saying that the masses were only getting their information from limited sources then. Their positions and stances on issues were based only on the limited information they received. With 24/7 News Channels and the Internet now people make up their mind based on amillions of various sources, etc. I don't think I'm saying this well.

I think radical Islam is a good analogy. If these kids don't get any other data put into them from birth other than Allah this and Allah that....kill the infidels...blah,blah,blah....then you can't really expect them to act or make decisions greater than they are capable of.

miir · Post by **miir** » July 10, 2007, 11:06 am

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote: True. I understand what you are saying. I'm saying that the masses were only getting their information from limited sources then. Their positions and stances on issues were based only on the limited information they received. With 24/7 News Channels and the Internet now people make up their mind based on amillions of various sources, etc. I don't think I'm saying this well.

I understand exactly what you're saying.
Your problem is that you're feeble minded and not seeing the big picture.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 10, 2007, 11:11 am

miir wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote: True. I understand what you are saying. I'm saying that the masses were only getting their information from limited sources then. Their positions and stances on issues were based only on the limited information they received. With 24/7 News Channels and the Internet now people make up their mind based on amillions of various sources, etc. I don't think I'm saying this well.
I understand exactly what you're saying.
Your problem is that you're feeble minded and not seeing the big picture.

How does this help Miir? Why do you feel the need to continually bait?

miir · Post by **miir** » July 10, 2007, 11:13 am

You get riled up and too focused on very small instances and refuse to take a breath, a step back and look at things beyond the small little scenario at hand.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » July 10, 2007, 11:21 am

The internet didn't exist 15 years ago? Amazing. When exactly when was it invented? I know Al Gore had something to do with it but not quite sure about the timeline.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 10, 2007, 11:43 am

Not to the extent it is now Aslanna. 15 years was only 2 years after Windows 95 came out. I should have said 17 years ago. I apologize. I was trying to make a bigger point. My bad.

miir · Post by **miir** » July 10, 2007, 12:17 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote: 15 years was only 2 years after Windows 95 came out.

You fail at mathematics.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 10, 2007, 12:28 pm

miir wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote: 15 years was only 2 years after Windows 95 came out.
You fail at mathematics.

LOL. Yes I do. HAHA. I'm a mess. Disregard me. I'm a brick wall.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » July 10, 2007, 1:41 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:You were right Animale. You just show your posts to the White House so you can get a job there and help us not to make this same mistake again. Congratulations on being right.

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:How does this help Miir? Why do you feel the need to continually bait?

As if your any fucking different Mid. Stop being a fucking hypocrite.

You seem to despise the notion that certain people were right all along. It wasn't down to luck, it was down to common sense. It wasn't a big fluke that we just so happened to be right, it was down to logically using our brains and seeing like 99% of the world did that it was going to be an epic clusterfuck that would mean the pointless death of hundreds of thousands of innocent human beings and become a recruiting tool for the very people you were trying to fight. You think you might give us a bit more fucking credit since we have proven to have a degree of fucking foresight.

You think it makes us feel fucking happy to see that we were right when we still have to watch the news images of innocent people dying? Where's your fucking understanding of the "big picture"?

You seem to think all arguments are equal regardless of the levels of logic or reason in them, which they aren't, and then you have the audacity to talk about the big picture in any context whatsoever?

Here's some opinion, Animale is absolutely spot on, only an uneducated dolt with no perspective could find fault in what he just wrote.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 10, 2007, 2:19 pm

You're right Nick. I'm sorry. Thatnk you for showing me the truth. You being a man of such vast life experience knows me much better than I do myself. I really need to take a step back and review my whole philosophy on life. You and the others who saw this coming are true visonaries. I can only hope to alter my silly big picture nonsense and focus more the things you find valueable and important so I can too one day see these things and logically and common sensically(?) as you do. Thank you again.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » July 10, 2007, 3:56 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:You're right Nick. I'm sorry. Thatnk you for showing me the truth. You being a man of such vast life experience knows me much better than I do myself. I really need to take a step back and review my whole philosophy on life. You and the others who saw this coming are true visonaries. I can only hope to alter my silly big picture nonsense and focus more the things you find valueable and important so I can too one day see these things and logically and common sensically(?) as you do. Thank you again.

You play the passive-aggressive almost as well as my wife. That's hot, wanna fuck?

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 10, 2007, 4:13 pm

Zaelath wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:You're right Nick. I'm sorry. Thatnk you for showing me the truth. You being a man of such vast life experience knows me much better than I do myself. I really need to take a step back and review my whole philosophy on life. You and the others who saw this coming are true visonaries. I can only hope to alter my silly big picture nonsense and focus more the things you find valueable and important so I can too one day see these things and logically and common sensically(?) as you do. Thank you again.
You play the passive-aggressive almost as well as my wife. That's hot, wanna fuck?

Sure.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » July 10, 2007, 5:17 pm

Why are you using a RL picture of me as your avatar? Isn't that a bit fucking shitheaded, even for you ? (even though I do look incredibly dashing in it)

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » July 10, 2007, 5:40 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:True. I understand what you are saying. I'm saying that the masses were only getting their information from limited sources then. Their positions and stances on issues were based only on the limited information they received. With 24/7 News Channels and the Internet now people make up their mind based on amillions of various sources, etc. I don't think I'm saying this well.

I think radical Islam is a good analogy. If these kids don't get any other data put into them from birth other than Allah this and Allah that....kill the infidels...blah,blah,blah....then you can't really expect them to act or make decisions greater than they are capable of.

The thing about the Gulf War is that it was in direct response to aggression from Saddam. He invaded Kuwait, his actions were condemned in the UN, and he was given an ultimatum by the Security Council.

With the "Coalition of the Willing" 's invasion of Iraq, Bush issued the ultimatum, which was mostly adhered to by Saddam, the UN Inspection teams went in to look for WMD, found nothing, and Bush pressed ahead with invasion anyway. A lot of damage to the US stance was done by Saddam's willingness to allow inspectors in. Saddam played the diplomacy and maneuver game in a way that made Bush look like an absolute idiot on the international stage. The evidence Bush could muster and present publicly, in support of his stance, was highly questionable. It made the issue more ambiguous and raised the doubts as to whether this was a legitimate security concern or a personal vendetta between the Bush clan and Saddam. There were no links to 9/11, there was only some highly questionable claims about dangers to security of the US, which Hans Blix and his teams never found any evidence to support.

Right from the onset, the Iraq invasion suffered from an ambiguity of purpose that was more similar to Vietnam than the Gulf War.

All that being said I think Cindy Sheehan needs to come back to reality. She stands no chance in hell of unseating Nancy Pelosi, an incumbent who garnered 80% of the vote last time she ran. I feel sorry for the woman, she lost her son to a conflict that seems unnecessary and then she was used and discarded in the cynical game of politics, but she isn't accomplishing anything. If she still feels the need to do something she should help organize and support more peace rallies: at least it will stop making her a target for ridicule and hopefully she can heal the wound that her son's death gave her.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 10, 2007, 5:53 pm

Nick wrote:
Why are you using a RL picture of me as your avatar? Isn't that a bit fucking shitheaded, even for you ? (even though I do look incredibly dashing in it)

Because you are my new hero. I want everyone to see my young 23 year old hero. At the ripe young age of 23 you have figured it all out. At 17 you predicted the war would be a failure. You have a high itellect and broad vision of social issues and knowing the real deal. Heck at 23 years old, I acted and spoke like a 23 year old....but not you. No, you speak with wisdom beyond your years. You have set me straight and I will never forget that. Thank you Nick.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » July 10, 2007, 6:02 pm

Although I'm sure if he asked you to remove it you'd certainly comply with his wishes.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » July 10, 2007, 6:37 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Nick wrote:
Why are you using a RL picture of me as your avatar? Isn't that a bit fucking shitheaded, even for you ? (even though I do look incredibly dashing in it)
Because you are my new hero. I want everyone to see my young 23 year old hero. At the ripe young age of 23 you have figured it all out. At 17 you predicted the war would be a failure. You have a high itellect and broad vision of social issues and knowing the real deal. Heck at 23 years old, I acted and spoke like a 23 year old....but not you. No, you speak with wisdom beyond your years. You have set me straight and I will never forget that. Thank you Nick.

No problem dipshit, evidently young supple males are a fetish of yours, who am I to stand in the way? Glad I could bring something into your life apart from the twin diet of fucking loneliness and stupidity.

Ps - take it off, or it will be taken off.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 10, 2007, 6:42 pm

Oh sure. No problem Nick. I sure didn't mean to upset you.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » July 10, 2007, 6:51 pm

Troll much

Abelard · Post by **Abelard** » July 13, 2007, 12:54 am

More power too Sheehan if she decides to run against Pelosi. Its beautiful that in a democracy the little guy (or girl in this case) can take a stand and be a critical voice/challenge to a government not fulfilling its obligations to the people. The Democrats have been completely ineffective in the house since they've taken power and I think that things really need to be shaken up on the hill. I mean hell, they've already broken campeign promises. No more business as usual in the senate? Could've fooled me, there are already democratic scandles with senator's getting caught with their hands in the cookie jar (or basement freezer).

For what they're worth, lots of opinion polls have been taken that even show most Americans are disillusioned with the senate on the whole. The people don't trust their government. Of course, I'm not much of a fan of Pelosi to begin with, I think shes a bad judge of character, and a back room wheeler and dealer: see her appts. of ad hoc committee members.

Honestly, it makes me so happy that I'm a Canadian, and that we have the right to call snap elections when theres just cause. It must really be rough when you're stuck with the same shithead for 4 - 8 years.

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » July 13, 2007, 5:33 pm

Abelard wrote:Honestly, it makes me so happy that I'm a Canadian, and that we have the right to call snap elections when theres just cause. It must really be rough when you're stuck with the same shithead for 4 - 8 years.

That right only exists when we have minority gov'ts in place. In the past we have suffered under the extended tenures of fuckheads like Trudeau, Mulroney and Chretien... and they can (and do) last for more than 8 which is the limit the US constitution puts on their leaders.

Abelard · Post by **Abelard** » July 13, 2007, 6:03 pm

I like Trudeau and Chretien.