Midnyte has destroyed this forum.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 9, 2007, 1:00 pm

Shithead.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » July 9, 2007, 1:07 pm

While I do agree I'd have to say this thread will only serve to encourage them. Best to just (silently) acknowledge and move on.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » July 9, 2007, 1:07 pm

you're really helping!! how about posting some news article? what destroyed this forum is lack of new posts.
I like the forum, and go out of my way at times to find something to post in a neutral context... help us out, lets not turn every single topic into a 3 page cuntfest.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » July 9, 2007, 1:09 pm

Bill Clinton destroyed this forum years ago!

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 9, 2007, 1:36 pm

Yeah. Alternate points of view suck. Too bad you couldn't have existed in Nazi Germany times huh Noel? The forums would be much more interesting if every one agreed one everything. Heck, the world would be much better too. I think if we elect Barack Obama he can bring us that Utopian world we desire so deeply. Gosh, I think Al Gore could have brought us that if only Bush didn't steal the election he lost. Fucking Republican scum. Why do these motherfuckers want to stop the Democrats honest and sincere desire to make everything great and wonderful? Why? Why don't they join the Dems? /sigh

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » July 9, 2007, 1:40 pm

You think it's simply because you disagree with his opinions? There are a lot of opposing viewpoints presented around here so that has nothing to do with it.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 9, 2007, 1:43 pm

Aslanna wrote:You think it's simply because you disagree with his opinions? There are a lot of opposing viewpoints presented around here so that has nothing to do with it.

Okay. Explain it then.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 9, 2007, 1:50 pm

It has nothing to do with whether you agree or disagree with my opinions you assclown. Fash or Kilmoll and I don't often agree on political matters, and I have no issue with either of them.

For the record Fash, I would post more news articles, but why? They just get degenerated into a huge pile of shit.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » July 9, 2007, 1:57 pm

I enjoy honest, reasoned and well articulated disagreements / discussions. Hell, my wife is a republican (

) and we agree on very little regarding politics or social issues. The problem is that most of the "arguments" supporting your positions are just regurgitated bullshit that you blindly accept without a second of critical consideration from wherever you happen to be taking your talking points. If I wanted to just hear that kind of silly tripe, I'd listen to Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham, Glen Beck, Bill O'Reilly, Neal Boortz or Rush Limbaugh who, despite their troglodyte world view, can at least articulate their inanity in a more entertaining way than the shit that's generally spewed here by some. If either of you dolts (or a few others like Winnow on political topics) ever expressed a thought that wasn't first posited by a right-wing stink tank and then filtered through an uneducated college dropout talk show host, I might have a tiny shred of respect for something you type.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » July 9, 2007, 1:59 pm

The slow attrition of our best members has certainly not helped either. Remember when Voronwe, Aaeeamdar, Arborealous, Adex, etc, were all regular contributors to this forum? Everyone moved on because the intelligent tone used by some was drowned out by people who discuss things like loud assholes instead of reasonable human beings. I understand that this is VV, and I'm not offended by personal attacks or anything, but it makes contributing rather pointless for those of us who don't engage in that kind of discussion. Midnyte and Funk are guilty of it, but they're certainly not the only ones. It comes from both sides of the aisle.

Winnow, you do act like a prick on this forum sometimes yourself. The Scooter Libby thread is a prime example of you being a dick. You behaving like you do probably makes the forum more entertaining and enjoyable for yourself and less entertaining and enjoyable for everybody else. If that's how you want it, so be it. I don't mean to call you out individually, but you're intelligent, capable of reasonable debate, and capable of not being a dick, and so it pisses me off when you shit up potentially interesting discussions with relentless derailing. Whatever. No offense intended, I'm sure you're aware of what you're doing and expect that it'll piss some people off.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 9, 2007, 2:02 pm

Xatrei wrote:I enjoy honest, reasoned and well articulated disagreements / discussions. Hell, my wife is a republican ( ) and we agree on very little regarding politics or social issues. The problem is that most of the "arguments" supporting your positions are just regurgitated bullshit that you blindly accept without a second of critical consideration from wherever you happen to be taking your talking points. If I wanted to just hear that kind of silly tripe, I'd listen to Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham, Glen Beck, Bill O'Reilly, Neal Boortz or Rush Limbaugh who, despite their troglodyte world view, can at least articulate their inanity in a more entertaining way than the shit that's generally spewed here by some. If either of you dolts (or a few others like Winnow on political topics) ever expressed a thought that wasn't first posited by a right-wing stink tank and then filtered through an uneducated college dropout talk show host, I might have a tiny shred of respect for something you type.

Wow. You're serious aren't you? You obviously haven't read or comprehended anything I've said in 3 years. Your assesment of me and my posts couldn't be more off. Pull up my name and search through my last 50 posts. And tell me that's true.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » July 9, 2007, 2:05 pm

Oh poor fucking noel.

And it does have to do with difference of opinion, you are full of shit for saying otherwise. I can't ever state my opinion without immediately (within 5 minutes usually) being told by one of the regime how fucking stupid and wrong I am (READ: I know you have not been doing this lately noel, which is why I didn't specifically state your name.) This same opinion could have been posted by someone else (other than midnyte) and everyone would have just skipped over it, ignored it, or said something that would be worded much differently. (This is why I take a significant amount of pride in ruining fun for those same people)

Now, am I crying about people doing this? No, I'm not - I'm used to the fact that most of you fall into a very similar mindset and dislike people who aren't in that same mindset. However, I haven't ruined a goddamn thing - first of all, lack of new posts has been an issue in a lot of the previously active forums lately - I credit that issue to why damn near every thread on VV lately turns into a shit fest by page 2.

However, I have every right to state my opinion just as much as you or miir or whoever. Whether you agree with me or not (you don't, obviously) doesn't matter, the way in which I present my opinion does not matter. What do you want? A current events forum where you miir and nick can just post stuff and everyone can say YEAH FUCK BUSH HE RUINED TEH WORLD!! If that's not what you want, then what exactly do you want?

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » July 9, 2007, 2:08 pm

Sueven wrote:The slow attrition of our best members has certainly not helped either. Remember when Voronwe, Aaeeamdar, Arborealous, Adex, etc, were all regular contributors to this forum? Everyone moved on because the intelligent tone used by some was drowned out by people who discuss things like loud assholes instead of reasonable human beings. I understand that this is VV, and I'm not offended by personal attacks or anything, but it makes contributing rather pointless for those of us who don't engage in that kind of discussion. Midnyte and Funk are guilty of it, but they're certainly not the only ones. It comes from both sides of the aisle.

Winnow, you do act like a prick on this forum sometimes yourself. The Scooter Libby thread is a prime example of you being a dick. You behaving like you do probably makes the forum more entertaining and enjoyable for yourself and less entertaining and enjoyable for everybody else. If that's how you want it, so be it. I don't mean to call you out individually, but you're intelligent, capable of reasonable debate, and capable of not being a dick, and so it pisses me off when you shit up potentially interesting discussions with relentless derailing. Whatever. No offense intended, I'm sure you're aware of what you're doing and expect that it'll piss some people off.

Then, to you and xatrei I say the same thing I don't know how many people here have said to me: It's VV, that's how it is. Fucking deal with it or leave.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » July 9, 2007, 2:16 pm

And, if you've noticed, "leave" has eventually been the reaction of virtually every worthwhile poster here. Even the valuable folks who still come around are only spot-contributors at this point.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » July 9, 2007, 2:20 pm

Like I said, I don't feel bad at all. I am doing the same thing to everyone that they have done to me and a few other people. But as usual here on VV, things are ok when some people do them, but not others. I never went out of my to be a pain in the ass until I got fed up with people doing it to me, so you can blame the same people that are whining about it.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » July 9, 2007, 2:33 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:And it does have to do with difference of opinion, you are full of shit for saying otherwise. I can't ever state my opinion without immediately (within 5 minutes usually) being told by one of the regime how fucking stupid and wrong I am

It has nothing to do with difference of opinion so stop playing the victim. If you say stupid things be prepared to be called out on them regardless if they are right or wrong.

Nice to know I'm part of the "regime" though. I'm finally somebody! If you think you're 'runing the fun' for anyone you're sadly mistaken.

And yeah.. Fuck Bush he ruined the world! See I agree with you there. Keep up the good work.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 9, 2007, 2:36 pm

Sueven wrote:And, if you've noticed, "leave" has eventually been the reaction of virtually every worthwhile poster here. Even the valuable folks who still come around are only spot-contributors at this point.

"Worthwhile"...haha. "Worthwhile" = fits in with what you want to hear. You're a sad man. You'll grow up someday and learn that people have different points of view and not just yours is the right one. I've done a lot of growing up myself over the past 9 years so I know. Hopefully, such a "worthwhile" poster such as yourself will still be around then so we can see it.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » July 9, 2007, 2:40 pm

Aslanna wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:And it does have to do with difference of opinion, you are full of shit for saying otherwise. I can't ever state my opinion without immediately (within 5 minutes usually) being told by one of the regime how fucking stupid and wrong I am
It has nothing to do with difference of opinion so stop playing the victim. If you say stupid things be prepared to be called out on them regardless if they are right or wrong.

Nice to know I'm part of the "regime" though. I'm finally somebody! If you think you're 'runing the fun' for anyone you're sadly mistaken.

And yeah.. Fuck Bush he ruined the world! See I agree with you there. Keep up the good work.

You obviously don't get it, but that's no surprise. I am not arguing with the point you presented above, I have come to accept that people's lives here are so dull that they need to do those things, so in the spirit of fun - I joined in, and I just happen to think that a large majority of what I see posted here is ridiculous, hence my behavior. Re read the thread to see if your post might have been more appropriately aimed elsewhere.

If midnyte and I (and whomever else) are not ruining the fun for people, then how would you define people supposedly leaving because of us?

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » July 9, 2007, 3:07 pm

"Worthwhile"...haha. "Worthwhile" = fits in with what you want to hear. You're a sad man. You'll grow up someday and learn that people have different points of view and not just yours is the right one. I've done a lot of growing up myself over the past 9 years so I know. Hopefully, such a "worthwhile" poster such as yourself will still be around then so we can see it.

Whatever Midnyte. Look at the list of posters who I miss and ask yourself whether they agree with each other. They don't. This post of yours is the kind of asinine bullshit that people here are talking about. Especially the preachy tone. I could tell you to get an education just as easily as you could tell me to grow up, but it wouldn't make what I have to say any more valuable.

Funk: I was the one who was talking about people leaving, not Aslanna. I am not Aslanna and something I say cannot appropriately be used to rebut something he says. "Everyone but you" is not one singular entity, we're individuals. Additionally, I never said that YOU were forcing people out, I said that people were leaving. The point I was making is that the loud, angry, hotheads have come to dominate, while the calm, reasoned sorts have slowly lost interest. I classify you as a loud angry hothead, but you're certainly not the only one, and I'm pretty sure that some of the people I listed as having disappeared were gone before you even came to VV.

Additionally, I understand that people go off on you at times, and that you're seeking retribution by doing the same thing. Whatever, that's fine, I don't care. I'm simply pointing out that you going off in this fashion contributes to an overall reduction in the quality of the discussion going on here. This makes the board more enjoyable for people (like yourself) who enjoy bellicosity, and makes it less enjoyable for people (like myself) who enjoy subtlety. I'm not blaming you, I'm not saying you're bad, I'm simply pointing out what I view as a fact.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » July 9, 2007, 3:20 pm

I won't argue with you, you have a valid point - and when every single other person here does their part to alleviate the issue and the causes for the issue (see my above posts) I will also cease and desist.

And I have been at VV since day one (look at my joined date), so your guess that people left before I was here would be incorrect. However I wasn't as active of a poster then.

Post by **Sylvus** » July 9, 2007, 3:21 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Hopefully, such a "worthwhile" poster such as yourself will still be around then so we can see it.

Sueven's sig includes more intelligent content and thought-provoking insight than anything that you have ever posted in Current Events. And yes, I realize he doesn't even have a sig.

This thread is pretty much spot-on, the two of you retards (and he-who-will-not-be-named before you) are the main reason that this forum is so much less fun. Not because of your "opposing viewpoints", it's your constant use of this forum as your intellectual outhouse that slowly drove worthwhile posters (of which neither of you has ever been one) away. When there were (let's say) 30 worthwhile posters to the three of you, the signal-to-noise ratio was high enough that you could be ignored. With each of those good poster's departures, the ratio got lower and now it's barely tolerable.

Funkmasterr is actively encouraging the death of this forum, since if it's not fun for him it shouldn't be fun for anyone (a very mature perspective!), and Midnyte still hasn't realized after 5 or 10 years or the eternity that it has felt like that even people who have shared his viewpoints over the years have been hesitant to agree with his mind-numbingly ignorant, worthless posts. Kudos to the two of you!

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 9, 2007, 3:46 pm

Sylvus wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Hopefully, such a "worthwhile" poster such as yourself will still be around then so we can see it.
Sueven's sig includes more intelligent content and thought-provoking insight than anything that you have ever posted in Current Events. And yes, I realize he doesn't even have a sig.

This thread is pretty much spot-on, the two of you retards (and he-who-will-not-be-named before you) are the main reason that this forum is so much less fun. Not because of your "opposing viewpoints", it's your constant use of this forum as your intellectual outhouse that slowly drove worthwhile posters (of which neither of you has ever been one) away. When there were (let's say) 30 worthwhile posters to the three of you, the signal-to-noise ratio was high enough that you could be ignored. With each of those good poster's departures, the ratio got lower and now it's barely tolerable.

Funkmasterr is actively encouraging the death of this forum, since if it's not fun for him it shouldn't be fun for anyone (a very mature perspective!), and Midnyte still hasn't realized after 5 or 10 years or the eternity that it has felt like that even people who have shared his viewpoints over the years have been hesitant to agree with his mind-numbingly ignorant, worthless posts. Kudos to the two of you!

So ban me. You have the power to ban those you don't like. You've already proven you are incapable of handling differing opinions and viewpoints. You can stand on your pedestal and claim what I say has an untolerable signal-to-noise ratio all you want. All it really means is you don't like what I say and how I say it. I don't like a lot of what you say and how you say it. I find it "barely tolerable" too. However, I don't make posts calling you out and blaming you for some exodus. Somehow, that makes you a better person than me. Laughable. Maybe, people move on. There has been a ton of people who didn't agree with the way you and the fnord shit all over them like you do me and have left. Shocking you don't mention them. Ahhh wait, it's because you didn't like what they had to say. You disgust me. You're what's wrong with this world. Your intolerance is what causes racism, bigotry and all hatred of those who are different than you. You want everyone to asilmilate to your way of spekaing and reasoning? You don't see what you've become? You really don't see what you're saying? Sad.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » July 9, 2007, 3:46 pm

Sylvus wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Hopefully, such a "worthwhile" poster such as yourself will still be around then so we can see it.
Sueven's sig includes more intelligent content and thought-provoking insight than anything that you have ever posted in Current Events. And yes, I realize he doesn't even have a sig.

This thread is pretty much spot-on, the two of you retards (and he-who-will-not-be-named before you) are the main reason that this forum is so much less fun. Not because of your "opposing viewpoints", it's your constant use of this forum as your intellectual outhouse that slowly drove worthwhile posters (of which neither of you has ever been one) away. When there were (let's say) 30 worthwhile posters to the three of you, the signal-to-noise ratio was high enough that you could be ignored. With each of those good poster's departures, the ratio got lower and now it's barely tolerable.

Funkmasterr is actively encouraging the death of this forum, since if it's not fun for him it shouldn't be fun for anyone (a very mature perspective!), and Midnyte still hasn't realized after 5 or 10 years or the eternity that it has felt like that even people who have shared his viewpoints over the years have been hesitant to agree with his mind-numbingly ignorant, worthless posts. Kudos to the two of you!

It really hurts my feelings that you don't think I make intelligent statements/form intelligent opinions

. Truth be told, if I were sitting with a friend and discussing any of these topics the conversation would be entirely different. I would take the time to explain myself and give reason to why I feel the way I do, and give them a chance to talk without calling them fucked up names. But this is because my friends do the same, they respect what I say even if they do disagree with me, and the differences we do have can generally be put aside.

However, I cannot do the same thing here. I am by no means a moron, and by no means are my thoughts/beliefs only shared by myself, there are plenty of millions of people that have similar thoughts/beliefs (granted I might say some pretty out there shit once in a while, but again, I'm not the only one) - however, very few people like that tend to post here - but you and miir, noel, nick, whoever being in the majority doesn't make you anymore right, it just means that the demographic here is mostly contrasting of people like midnyte, myself, etc.

What's more, the responses I get to what I say half the time are just some rabid uttering of how stupid I am, and aside from noel and miir, rarely does anyone care to explain why, they just want to be an asshole. Then I have to sit by and watch these same people have the nerve to complain about other people doing the same thing to their precious threads, it's pathetic.

So basically what is being implied here is that it's ok for people that share the majority opinion to resort to name calling and shit talking when they are confronted by someone that does not agree with them in the CE forum, but if it is the reverse of that, it's fucking up the forum for people trying to have "intelligent" conversation.

You can go ahead and argue the point that I may resort to this more often than poster x, but when there are maybe 5 other people that agree with me, and dozens that don't, many of which are already in the process of explaining how I'm no more intelligent than an autistic quadraplegic monkey with aids - I am forced to step it up a bit, so you may see something more obnoxious from me more often only because I have to make up for the unfair ratio.

I guess the bottom line is this: I am fully capable of forming intelligent and coherent thoughts and transferring them to writing, but what incentive is anyone here giving me to take the time out of my day to do so? Why not just shit on your fun, you are all fairly quick to do the same. If you want to have your CE forum be a civil place where people have intelligent conversations, maybe everyone needs to take a look at what part they have played to get things to the point they are at (because it certainly isn't three of us like you are trying to imply), and do something to change it. If I don't get shit constantly, I won't "shit" on your forums, and I have a feeling I wouldn't be the only one.

But do whatever you want, respond to this post with some 1 liner about how fucking stupid I am and how wrong I am (why was cart banned again?) and things can continue down the same road they have been. Just know that if they do, the more of this shit I have to listen to the more effort I am going to put into what I have been doing in the past.

miir · Post by **miir** » July 9, 2007, 3:51 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:So ban me. You have the power to ban those you don't like. You've already proven you are incapable of handling differing opinions and viewpoints. You can stand on your pedestal and claim what I say has an untolerable signal-to-noise ratio all you want. All it really means is you don't like what I say and how I say it. I don't like a lot of what you say and how you say it. I find it "barely tolerable" too. However, I don't make posts calling you out and blaming you for some exodus. Somehow, that makes you a better person than me. Laughable. Maybe, people move on. There has been a ton of people who didn't agree with the way you and the fnord shit all over them like you do me and have left. Shocking you don't mention them. Ahhh wait, it's because you didn't like what they had to say. You disgust me. You're what's wrong with this world. Your intolerance is what causes racism, bigotry and all hatred of those who are different than you. You want everyone to asilmilate to your way of spekaing and reasoning? You don't see what you've become? You really don't see what you're saying? Sad.

I'm sure you're smart enough to tell the difference between Sylvus the poster and Sylvus the moderator.

And stop trying to play the victim card.
You're a big boy and are perfectly capable of handling these so-called internet bullies.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » July 9, 2007, 3:56 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Wow. You're serious aren't you? You obviously haven't read or comprehended anything I've said in 3 years. Your assesment of me and my posts couldn't be more off. Pull up my name and search through my last 50 posts. And tell me that's true.

I've read your posts for years. I have never seen any reason to believe otherwise, and I doubt that I'm alone. Humor me and tell me the last 5 non-fiction books you've read. Give me an idea of how you form the opinions you hold since you claim that they don't come from the "usual suspects" of talking point pablum.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » July 9, 2007, 3:58 pm

miir wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:So ban me. You have the power to ban those you don't like. You've already proven you are incapable of handling differing opinions and viewpoints. You can stand on your pedestal and claim what I say has an untolerable signal-to-noise ratio all you want. All it really means is you don't like what I say and how I say it. I don't like a lot of what you say and how you say it. I find it "barely tolerable" too. However, I don't make posts calling you out and blaming you for some exodus. Somehow, that makes you a better person than me. Laughable. Maybe, people move on. There has been a ton of people who didn't agree with the way you and the fnord shit all over them like you do me and have left. Shocking you don't mention them. Ahhh wait, it's because you didn't like what they had to say. You disgust me. You're what's wrong with this world. Your intolerance is what causes racism, bigotry and all hatred of those who are different than you. You want everyone to asilmilate to your way of spekaing and reasoning? You don't see what you've become? You really don't see what you're saying? Sad.
I'm sure you're smart enough to tell the difference between Sylvus the poster and Sylvus the moderator.

And stop trying to play the victim card.
You're a big boy and are perfectly capable of handling these so-called internet bullies.

Nobody is playing the victim card dude, it's a fact, as is what I stated. If you want to play it off and say it's just whining, then go right ahead, but you would be wrong to go on believing that.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 9, 2007, 4:03 pm

Xatrei wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Wow. You're serious aren't you? You obviously haven't read or comprehended anything I've said in 3 years. Your assesment of me and my posts couldn't be more off. Pull up my name and search through my last 50 posts. And tell me that's true.
I've read your posts for years. I have never seen any reason to believe otherwise, and I doubt that I'm alone. Humor me and tell me the last 5 non-fiction books you've read. Give me an idea of how you form the opinions you hold since you claim that they don't come from the "usual suspects" of talking point pablum.

Perfect elitist talk. Last 5 non-fiction books I've read? Does non-fictional media matter more than visual and audio media? If you write it in a book it makes it more true and pertinant? LOL.

I don't listen to the talking heads you mentioned. I haven't for at least 4 years. Try again.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » July 9, 2007, 4:11 pm

^ Now there's some irony.

I don't see how Xatrei's question was worthy of a scoffing "LOL". It's interesting to see where people take their leads/knowledge from. Hiding from answering this fairly innocent question suggests the worst, not the best.

For the record I don't think Midnyte and Funkmasterr have ruined the forum, despite finding Funk to be a complete idiot. People just dont give a shit enough any more. If anything, whilst being for the most part obviously retarded, Funk and Mid have at least remained to some degree involved.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 9, 2007, 4:18 pm

If you must know...

Under and Alone by William Queen
The Art of War by Sun Tsu
Gardening Wizardy for Kids
The Everything Buddhism Book
Mayo Clinic Guide to Self Care

I hope that helps you prove whatever point you were trying to make. Good luck.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » July 9, 2007, 4:23 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:But do whatever you want, respond to this post with some 1 liner about how fucking stupid I am and how wrong I am (why was cart banned again?) and things can continue down the same road they have been. Just know that if they do, the more of this shit I have to listen to the more effort I am going to put into what I have been doing in the past.

Whaa.. Poor you. Why not cite some recent examples of someone posting '1 liner(s)' about how stupid and wrong you are. I can't remember seeing any lately. I did have the post about the Wonder Twins but that was funny! It was also two lines. Fact is I think you're pulling this out of your ass just like just about everything else you post here. I don't hide the fact that I dislike the both of you but I don't go around stalking all your posts. For the most part I skip right on past because taking the time to compose a reasonable response is like talking to the fucking wall. Difference being is the wall has an excuse.

If you can find anything that matches up to the Cartalas level of repitive 1-liner stupidity I'll stop posting for a month. Heck.. Two months even! Until then shut the fuck up about it.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » July 9, 2007, 4:32 pm

I am not pulling anything out of my ass or anywhere else. Generally speaking, most peoples responses to what I say are some kind of an insult and contain nothing to do with the topic I am speaking on, do your own fucking research if you don't believe me. And trust me when I say the feeling of talking to the wall is mutual.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » July 9, 2007, 4:45 pm

Sueven wrote:Winnow, you do act like a prick on this forum sometimes yourself. The Scooter Libby thread is a prime example of you being a dick. You behaving like you do probably makes the forum more entertaining and enjoyable for yourself and less entertaining and enjoyable for everybody else. If that's how you want it, so be it. I don't mean to call you out individually, but you're intelligent, capable of reasonable debate, and capable of not being a dick, and so it pisses me off when you shit up potentially interesting discussions with relentless derailing. Whatever. No offense intended, I'm sure you're aware of what you're doing and expect that it'll piss some people off.

I can't guarantee anything, but I'm willing to cut back a bit on my approach, specifically in the Current Events Forum dealing with political science, if it will make the overall experience more rewarding for those that wish to get into serious debates without hijackings and diversions.

miir · Post by **miir** » July 9, 2007, 4:55 pm

Winnow wrote:I can't guarantee anything, but I'm willing to cut back a bit on my approach, specifically in the Current Events Forum dealing with political science, if it will make the overall experience more rewarding for those that wish to get into serious debates without hijackings and diversions.

Haha

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » July 9, 2007, 5:07 pm

Winnow, I really appreciate you actually taking that seriously. Honestly. Funk, you too. Thanks for recognizing that I was trying to communicate and not to offend.

Winnow, I'd love it, of course. Sadly, despite me calling out only you, you're certainly not the only problem. There are a lot of really smart people whose contributions I really enjoy who have taken to going into beligerent asshole mode more and more often over the past several months/years. I don't really expect that this thread will change anything, but I'm happy to jump into any worthwhile discussion going on here.

Right around the time of the V Tech shootings, we had a few really good discussions going. Maybe we just need more topics that people actually care about.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » July 9, 2007, 5:11 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:I am not pulling anything out of my ass or anywhere else. Generally speaking, most peoples responses to what I say are some kind of an insult and contain nothing to do with the topic I am speaking on, do your own fucking research if you don't believe me. And trust me when I say the feeling of talking to the wall is mutual.

Of course, I should have guessed. Make blanket statements, get called on it, and claim it's up to the other person to research it. I don't have to research it because I know you're a fucking liar. Oh, that might hurt your feeligns so I will rephrase: You're sadly mistaken in this regard.

Of course your original statement has already morphed from '1 liner' into 'some kind of an insult'. How convenient!

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » July 9, 2007, 5:20 pm

Aslanna wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:I am not pulling anything out of my ass or anywhere else. Generally speaking, most peoples responses to what I say are some kind of an insult and contain nothing to do with the topic I am speaking on, do your own fucking research if you don't believe me. And trust me when I say the feeling of talking to the wall is mutual.
Of course, I should have guessed. Make blanket statements, get called on it, and claim it's up to the other person to research it. I don't have to research it because I know you're a fucking liar. Oh, that might hurt your feeligns so I will rephrase: You're sadly mistaken in this regard.

Of course your original statement has already morphed from '1 liner' into 'some kind of an insult'. How convenient!

This is what I am talking about precisely, you really don't even have a leg to stand on - but you are just dead set on annoying me. I don't need to do the research because it's very evident, look through any thread I have posted in lately, especially in this forum - and I am willing to bet that more often than not, the response I get to something I say is yet another tired insult.

And nothing morphed from 1 liner to some kind of insult, you get the point, and the point is that they don't do to me what people are expressing they want done to them. They insult me, with total disregard for the subject at hand most of the time, and whether or not it is one sentence or two sentences make zero difference.

Either you are just going out of your way to be obnoxious (which you honestly have been doing better than any registered user on this site at, including searyx). Or you are extremely stupid.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » July 9, 2007, 5:34 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:Either you are just going out of your way to be obnoxious (which you honestly have been doing better than any registered user on this site at, including searyx). Or you are extremely stupid.

Good. I hope I make your stay every bit as unenjoyable as you make others. I sthall make more of an effort to go out of my way to be as obnoxious as you are. Or extremely stupid. Nobody knows for certain which side of the fence you fall but I have a good idea.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » July 9, 2007, 5:37 pm

Right, originally my post was addressing the issue, in a professional, non insulting manner that was brought up by noel. I explained that many people are playing a part, and that I would back off if others did, and this is how you respond. And I am the problem, what a joke.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » July 9, 2007, 6:26 pm

Funk irritates me, but he can be reached and occasionally reasoned with. Midnyte is completely unreachable and so thoroughly a right wing trooper that he will never be shaken from his neo-nazi ways. I could live with that, if he didn't constantly just regurgatate things he picked up in the neo-con spin machine. Winnow is the real problem.

Aside from his narcassistic self serving attitude towards, well, everything, I think he knows how full of shit he is but keeps up the constant derailing and spamming for two main reasons: One, if a situation favors him, he staunchly supports it no matter how reprehensible it may be, morally or ethically, because ultimately he is all about serving his own personal interests and does not care about right and wrong in the least. Second, he is so borish that his only means of entertainment is to cause drama for his own personal amusement, so he derails the shit out things purely to get his jollies at other people's expense. He has had a long history of this kind of behavior.

Ultimately, he is willfully contrary purely to amuse himself and serve his own self interests. Because he often defends obviously hypocritical positions, his standard defense is to derail the topic (see the PS3 thread, for a prime example) into the ground and simply refuse to ever acknowledge any credible argument, when it infringes on his self serving interests. If he simply came out and said "I don't care about other people at all, but this is good for me so I am taking this position." He would be a lot more tolerable, but for some reason he feels the need to try and obfuscate his obvious hypocracy. Of all three of these guys, I consider him the most destructive to this (and other) forums and personally view him as even worse than he-who-must-not-be-named. The PS3 thread is a classic example of this, as every post that even slightly was on topic is immediatly followed by three of his Xbox Fanboi posts. Just to be clear, as much as I despise him as a human being, the problem is not with his views or sociopathic nature, but his compulsion to stir up shit purely to generate drama to entertain himself at others expense.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 9, 2007, 7:01 pm

Jice Virago wrote: Midnyte is completely unreachable and so thoroughly a right wing trooper that he will never be shaken from his neo-nazi ways. I could live with that, if he didn't constantly just regurgatate things he picked up in the neo-con spin machine.

You couldn't be more wrong. I don't listen to, watch nor read any right wing or left wing propaganda. I would love to have conversations on any topic at all. If you and others can respect my views without name calling and labelling and hatred and vitriol, I'd gladly respond in kind. Are we calling for a fresh start? All all parties claiming they'd be willing to start over? I'm game.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » July 9, 2007, 7:03 pm

At this point, Mid - I don't even care. The double standard and hypocritical douchebaggery isn't ever going to leave VV, it's here to stay. Maybe if people back the hell off of me I'll do the same, but I assure you no one would hold to that for more than a week.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » July 9, 2007, 7:11 pm

I pledge to not insult Funkmasterr for a whole month regardless of what a douchebag he happens to be at the time. Just because he's talking out of his ass again and proving him wrong, as usual, is going to be so easy.

Note this only goes for all the Forums other than General Discussion. That's always been labeled 'No holds barred discussion' and if you can't handle an insult there you're in the wrong place.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » July 9, 2007, 7:25 pm

I agree with Mid that it's unfair to call him a right-wing-pundit-parrot. His views don't mirror the generalized conservative punditry precisely. It's fair to call him a right-wing guy, but not a parrot. On the other hand, I agree that Mid is generally very unwilling to listen to the perspectives of others. I've seen him do it before and I know he's capable, but only rarely will he do it. Typically, if someone tries to engage him in civilized conversation, he'll make typical Midnyte posts until it's clear that he's not going to get them upset, and then simply ignore anything they say thereafter.

I'm also a little put off by this "I engage in respectful conversation with anyone who engages in respectful conversation with me" line of Mid's. I have made several attempts to engage Mid in respectful conversation, and the results have generally not been positive. Mid actually has responded to me thoughtfully a few times, and I appreciate that. He's also just gotten hostile a few times. More often than not, he ignores me-- at best, I'll get a short, pithy response which demonstrates no understanding of what I was trying to say, followed by silence when I try to respond or clarify what I meant. Of course, in Mid's defense, I've been mean to him before as well. I did once start a thread asking whether I should ignore him or not (I didn't). That was fairly disrespectful. In this very thread, I called one of his posts asinine bullshit, and criticized his method of defending himself by claiming elderly wisdom. So I guess I can understand if he doesn't respond to me thoughtfully at times.

That said, this is VV, everyone's been insulted at one time or another. I know that I've had some pretty serious arguments with people like noel and Sylvus, and we still get along just fine. I can understand a poster who, upon being bombarded with nothing but insults from another poster, chooses to cease taking seriously what that person says. But to pretend that every poster here (or even most posters here) do this is simply incorrect.

As for a fresh start: I'd be up for it. But, I am (in my own estimation) one of the calm, civilized types, and so my participation probably isn't really relevant in any way.

Mak · Post by **Mak** » July 9, 2007, 7:26 pm

noel wrote:Shitheads.

It's not Mid and Funk that have destroyed the forum, Noel. It's the overall attitude that almost every poster in this forum has: "My opinion is better than yours, so fuck off and die, you (insert insulting name here)." Honest debate stopped happening here years ago, and it's been nothing more than a hypocritical conservative bashfest ever since.

The biggest sin that Mid and Funk has committed is that they're in the minority. Let's face it- Miir and Aslanna can write just as condescending, retarded, and pointless posts as anything you accuse Midnyte of having done, but most of the people here agree with their philosophy so nobody would ever think to call them on it. And they know that, so they don't even try to make a reasonable and rational argument anymore. They just post the liberal bullet points- as they accuse Midnyte of doing- and know that they're not going to have to actually justify their answers, 'cause, you know, the only one that ever disagrees with them is Midnyte, or Funk, or maybe Winnow, and who the hell cares about them?

Noel, you and I can both read a thread title in this forum and know EXACTLY how it's going to progress, because everyone posts exactly the same fucking way in every fucking thread. We can go down the list of names and we could basically write their responses for them.

For example:

I knew the second Bush commuted Libby's sentence that when I logged on here there would be a thread about it, and I correctly surmised almost everyone's stance about it. I also knew that no matter what anyone said to defend it, it would be ignored. I thought about mentioning past pardons (as someone else had already done, but which were promptly dismissed with lamest fucking rationalizations I've ever seen.) I thought about bringing up Sandy Berger's theft of archive documents just before a congressional committee hearing (and doing some comparing and contrasting of the obstruction of justice nature) but... fuck it. Why bother? I'd just be wasting my time, and nobody would even bother to actually consider the comparisons. I'd get a bunch of responses lamely trying to convince me that the situations were completely different, and blah blah blah. I don't think any conservative would actually give a shit about Libby if Berger had actually done some jail time too. The fact that Berger was defended by people on this board and those same people ripped Libby is SO hypocritical, and that's probably what makes Midnyte so fucking pissed off all the time. No conservative on this board ever says they're right all the time, but I've not ever seen a single liberal concede that maybe he's wrong about even a single point. No, it's "I'm right, and you're a conservative, so clearly you're stupid and racist and deserve to be shit on" every single time. I'm almost positive that Midnyte's attitude is, "I won't ever get them to actually consider my point, but I ~can~ at least point out their hypocrisy."

I read this forum almost every day, and as much as I'd love to contribute, to I know that the no matter how intelligent or genuine my argument is, it will ultimately be a waste of my time, 'cause the same small cabal of lefty "shitheads", to use your term, will pile on without even considering my argument.

No, Midnyte and Funkmasterr have not ruined this forum. They're just a couple of the few that don't mind getting the shit kicked out of them day after day by dickheads like Miir that couldn't ever bother to consider that maybe- just maybe- that the truth of a situation lies somewhere between his opinion and Mid's.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » July 9, 2007, 7:49 pm

I disagree with Mak in that I don't think this is a "liberal majority beats down conservative minority and then back-pats" situation. I agree with Mak in that I think it's more a problem of attitude than a problem with any particular posters. There are several posters, conservative and liberal, who participate. For what it's worth, I agree with Mak that Miir and Aslanna are liberal examples. One difference is that Miir and Aslanna also contribute lots of interesting, worthwhile stuff-- but mixed in with that stuff are some pointless flames, insults, derails, and refusals to listen.

And this is where the politics comes in. Miir and Aslanna direct their anger toward only those who disagree with them and who they do not particularly respect (Funk, Mid, et all). Funk and Mid may also direct their anger only toward those who disagree with them and who they do not particularly respect, but this is a much larger group for Funk and Mid than it is for Miir and Aslanna. If there's a thread that Mid and Funk are not participating in, Miir and Aslanna are free to have an intelligent, civilized conversation. If there's a thread that Miir and Aslanna are not pariticipating in, odds are there's someone else in there who will be a dick to Mid/Funk and be treated like a dick in response or anticipation. So the signal to noise ratio is different, in part because Miir and Aslanna have more opportunities to produce a signal while Mid and Funk have more opportunities to produce noise.

In sum, don't think that you're not contributing to the negative atmosphere just because people like you. And no offense intended to anyone I mentioned.

Hesten · Post by **Hesten** » July 9, 2007, 8:13 pm

I rarely (happened i think 1 or 2 times now) agree with Midnyte, and not sure if i ever agreed with Funkmasterr, but i dont think theyre destroying the forum.
At least unlike Cartalas, they ARE creating debate, although it usually degenerates into namecalling and such quite fast

. (waits for the "bring Cartalas back" derailing

).

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » July 9, 2007, 8:15 pm

I pretty much agree with both of you on most points, but the fact remains that too many people here are far too stubborn and honestly take too much pride in their abillity to be a total asshole, so as much as I would like to see things change like you guys are speaking of, these people have been this way for years now and I have very little faith in things changing.

This would be one time where I would love to be proven wrong.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » July 9, 2007, 8:20 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Yeah. Alternate points of view suck. Too bad you couldn't have existed in Nazi Germany times huh Noel? The forums would be much more interesting if every one agreed one everything. Heck, the world would be much better too. I think if we elect Barack Obama he can bring us that Utopian world we desire so deeply. Gosh, I think Al Gore could have brought us that if only Bush didn't steal the election he lost. Fucking Republican scum. Why do these motherfuckers want to stop the Democrats honest and sincere desire to make everything great and wonderful? Why? Why don't they join the Dems? /sigh

You seem to think alternate views suck. As soon as someone has one, then proves it beyond doubt, you just insult them and move on. Around here I feel like the geek that insults the slow witted jock; you best be ready to duck because ol' Lurch here don't got but one response to being made look foolish, yuck yuck.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » July 9, 2007, 8:47 pm

Zaelath wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Yeah. Alternate points of view suck. Too bad you couldn't have existed in Nazi Germany times huh Noel? The forums would be much more interesting if every one agreed one everything. Heck, the world would be much better too. I think if we elect Barack Obama he can bring us that Utopian world we desire so deeply. Gosh, I think Al Gore could have brought us that if only Bush didn't steal the election he lost. Fucking Republican scum. Why do these motherfuckers want to stop the Democrats honest and sincere desire to make everything great and wonderful? Why? Why don't they join the Dems? /sigh
You seem to think alternate views suck. As soon as someone has one, then proves it beyond doubt, you just insult them and move on. Around here I feel like the geek that insults the slow witted jock; you best be ready to duck because ol' Lurch here don't got but one response to being made look foolish, yuck yuck.

My point was proven one, ONE post after I made it. He is never going to change, I don't think I have seen him make a post in at least a month in which he wasn't being a complete cock - so why even toss this idea around?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » July 9, 2007, 8:49 pm

Jice Virago wrote:Winnow is the real problem.

...Ultimately, he is willfully contrary purely to amuse himself and serve his own self interests.

Jice has had it in for me ever since I made a comment about painting metal figures as a hobby. He seems to have thought that he could swagger around the Vault making fun of other VV'er hobbies and interests while his fancy paragraphs somehow made his own immune from cross examination. (get over it)

What possibly could be my self interests that you speak of on this message board? Is there something to gain here? I'm not vying for a spot in the cliqué. I'm not networking for a job or trying to sleep with someone here. Whether anything I've posted on these forums has ever been of use is for each individual reader to determine.

Why do people choose to wipe VeeshanVault's slogan, "We Know Drama" from their minds when it suits their purposes? Of course I dramatize my posts on occasion. Besides Jice stuggling with this, I'll a pull a kyoukan and speak for the general population and say that most people here have figured that out. It's not some secret plot of mine that takes analyzing my childhood to figure out what I'm up to.

Sueven's puts some thought into what he has to say while my attempts to rattle him have always been met with a steady flow of solid counterpoints. That counts for something in my book! So, when he took the time to calmly point out which actions of mine were disturbing him, I offered a similarly unheated response with the possibility of improving the situation.

I still think lessons in scanning posts and ignoring the ones that aren't useful would be helpful to some people here.