Bush commutes Libby sentence

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Bush commutes Libby sentence

Post by Braxter »

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WASHINGTON - President Bush commuted the sentence of former aide I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby Monday, sparing him from a 2 1/2-year prison term in the CIA leak case. Bush left intact a $250,000 fine and two years probation for Libby, according to a senior White House official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the decision had not been announced.
think he'll be pardoned next year as well?

I'd like to see an amendment to the constitution that says presidents can't pardon or commute sentences of those convicted of crimes committed while working for the executive branch. I haven't fully thought through the ramifications, but is there a good argument against it?
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

Post by noel »

Jesus Christ.
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

Post by Drolgin Steingrinder »

Jesus fucking christ.

Think the people who designed your system of government would roll over a few times if they saw the amount of cronyism in current US politics?
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

Post by Animalor »

Didn't even bother waiting for the appeal..
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

Post by Boogahz »

Animalor wrote:Didn't even bother waiting for the appeal..
He had already lost the appeal to put the prison time portion of the sentence on hold. He still owes the $250,000.00 fine, and has three years of probation.
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

Post by Dregor Thule »

We're finally seeing the Shock and Awe strategy come to fruition.

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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

Post by Boogahz »

Dregor Thule wrote:We're finally seeing the Shock and Awe strategy come to fruition.

GOOD LUCK, AMERICA, YOU POOR BASTARDS.
Who is shocked or awed? I think we all pretty much saw this coming, but I guess we might be shocked that it was not a full pardon by Bush.
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

Post by Markulas »

I'm starting to think the Scooter defense fund wasn't really needed.
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

Post by Dregor Thule »

Boogahz wrote:
Dregor Thule wrote:We're finally seeing the Shock and Awe strategy come to fruition.

GOOD LUCK, AMERICA, YOU POOR BASTARDS.
Who is shocked or awed? I think we all pretty much saw this coming, but I guess we might be shocked that it was not a full pardon by Bush.
Sarcasm.
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Drolgin Steingrinder wrote:Jesus fucking christ.

Think the people who designed your system of government would roll over a few times if they saw the amount of cronyism in current US politics?
Do you honestly believe the people who designed our government were much better? Read up on Thomas Jeffereson a bit and shit he did to John Adams.
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

Post by Fash »

You're all fucking idiots... the guy didn't deserve to do ANY jail time. All W did was make things right.
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

Post by Pherr the Dorf »

When 70+% of the country thinks you suck ass, what the fuck do you have to lose?
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

Post by Siji »

Pherr the Dorf wrote:When 70+% of the country thinks you suck ass, what the fuck do you have to lose?
Having a library named after you!

Not that the George W Bush buliding would carry anything other than upside down printed curious George books.
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

Post by Aslanna »

Seriously. Don't taint Curious George like that. Man in the yellow hat will lay the smackdown upon you.
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

Post by Canelek »

Well, dirty politicians have to have each other's backs. Bush is such an impetuous fuck. I WANT A PONY!!! I WANT A PONY!!!
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

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Siji wrote:
Pherr the Dorf wrote:When 70+% of the country thinks you suck ass, what the fuck do you have to lose?
Having a library named after you!

Not that the George W Bush buliding would carry anything other than upside down printed curious George books.
Nah, they will also have "My Pet Goat"
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

Post by Winnow »

I wonder who Clinton pardoned. Lets have a look, shall we?

http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pardonchartlst.htm
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

Post by Xyun »

This is about the Bush pardon of White House staff that was convicted of a crime. Not that I really want to discuss what happened almost a fucking decade ago, but how many of those worked IN the White House for Clinton? How many of them were pardoned without ever doing time?

Every time Bush does something unbelievably heinous, conservatives throw out the word Clinton as if anything he did policy-wise ever came close to the criminality of this administration.

How can you fucking people claim to be patriots and not be disgusted by the giant shit Bush takes on the Constitution on such a regular basis. It's fucking nauseating.
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

Post by masteen »

Just because every president does it, does not make it right.
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

Post by Boogahz »

I could see Clinton's name being thrown into this discussion as valid. Both he and Libby were accused of Perjury.
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

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Xyun wrote:How can you fucking people claim to be patriots and not be disgusted by the giant shit Bush takes on the Constitution on such a regular basis. It's fucking nauseating.
No argument from me, it's also business as usual for a president who isn't running for reelection. Vote for someone better next time, or at least to shake things up a bit.

I'd imagine there's a "cover my ass or you go down too" threat from or agreement with Libby. If it was something to do with the Clinton's I'd expect to see him have an accident in the next year or two.
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

Post by Nick »

The Bush administration is hilarious, they aren't even trying to hide what a bunch of shits they are anymore. Strike this up as another spit on the average American's face from a Government that's managed to completely shit up nearly everything it touches,. (right before Independance Day! Woo!)
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

Post by miir »

This guy should have gotten the chair!!!
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

Post by Dregor Thule »

Boogahz wrote:I could see Clinton's name being thrown into this discussion as valid. Both he and Libby were accused of Perjury.
Libby wasn't accused of perjury. He was convicted for it, for christ's sake.

* and wow. Firefox2's spell checker wants me to capitalize christ. Fuck that noise.
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

Post by Boogahz »

Dregor Thule wrote:
Boogahz wrote:I could see Clinton's name being thrown into this discussion as valid. Both he and Libby were accused of Perjury.
Libby wasn't accused of perjury. He was convicted for it, for christ's sake.

* and wow. Firefox2's spell checker wants me to capitalize christ. Fuck that noise.

I stand by my statement as Clinton was not convicted of Perjury, but they were both accused of it :P
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

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I find it really difficult to care about this at all.

How is this taking a giant shit on the constitution? The constitution is the whole reason that Bush has the power to commute this guys sentence. He's acting in line with the constitution, in this case at least.

The point of prosecuting Libby was not that Scooter Libby Is A Bad Person And Deserves To Go To Jail. The point of prosecuting him was The Bush Administration Has Done Some Fucked Up Things And Deserves To Be Censured. Scooter was a proxy, an instrument via which a rebuke was delivered to the entire administration. This rebuke accomplished goals both symbolic (obtaining testimony from white house officials, obtaining a conviction against Libby, etc) and substantive (forcing the executive branch to submit to some degree to the legislative and judicial branches, drawing public attention to the issue, forcing the administration to expend significant political capital). None of these accomplishments are negated by the commutation. In fact, Bush was forced to spend even more political capital specifically because of the commutation.

Is it still fucked up that Bush would commute his buddy's sentence because it's his buddy? Sure. Is it fucked up that the 17 year old who got a blowjob from a 15 year old can't get his prison sentence commuted, while Scooter can? Sure. Is it fucked up that presidents in general use their pardons in order to promote nepotism and cronyism instead of justice and fairness? Sure. But I prefer to save my righteous indignation for things that are actually consequential. This is simply a sexy story that does a good job playing into peoples pre-existing sentiments about Bush. There's plenty of things to be angry at Bush about-- he seems to have a religious litmus test for civil service appointees, he seats ideologues on the federal courts, he seems to be largely incapable of diplomacy and cooperation in any meaningful sense. These things get me heated. Bush commuting Libby's sentence isn't going to earn much more than an eyeroll from me.
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

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Sueven wrote:I find it really difficult to care about this at all.

How is this taking a giant shit on the constitution? The constitution is the whole reason that Bush has the power to commute this guys sentence. He's acting in line with the constitution, in this case at least.

The point of prosecuting Libby was not that Scooter Libby Is A Bad Person And Deserves To Go To Jail. The point of prosecuting him was The Bush Administration Has Done Some Fucked Up Things And Deserves To Be Censured. Scooter was a proxy, an instrument via which a rebuke was delivered to the entire administration. This rebuke accomplished goals both symbolic (obtaining testimony from white house officials, obtaining a conviction against Libby, etc) and substantive (forcing the executive branch to submit to some degree to the legislative and judicial branches, drawing public attention to the issue, forcing the administration to expend significant political capital). None of these accomplishments are negated by the commutation. In fact, Bush was forced to spend even more political capital specifically because of the commutation.

Is it still fucked up that Bush would commute his buddy's sentence because it's his buddy? Sure. Is it fucked up that the 17 year old who got a blowjob from a 15 year old can't get his prison sentence commuted, while Scooter can? Sure. Is it fucked up that presidents in general use their pardons in order to promote nepotism and cronyism instead of justice and fairness? Sure. But I prefer to save my righteous indignation for things that are actually consequential. This is simply a sexy story that does a good job playing into peoples pre-existing sentiments about Bush. There's plenty of things to be angry at Bush about-- he seems to have a religious litmus test for civil service appointees, he seats ideologues on the federal courts, he seems to be largely incapable of diplomacy and cooperation in any meaningful sense. These things get me heated. Bush commuting Libby's sentence isn't going to earn much more than an eyeroll from me.
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

Post by Wulfran »

As an outside observer, you could see this coming. I just didn't think it would happen yet or realize how hypocritical so many of the "conservatives" in the US are. The same people who wanted Clinton hung for lying about a hummer (and I do think he deserved censuring for lying under oath) think its OK for someone else to lie to the FBI and a grand jury about a case where a CIA agent's identity is made public? Not only that but they think the case presented by a Republican appointed prosecutor and the sentence handed down by a Republican appointed judge is too harsh?

I guess this technically isn't Bush going back on the "anyone lying or covering this up will be fired" but its still fucked. I'll agree with Sueven that its fucked that Libby gets this treatment while that kid in Georgia is getting fucked over like he is. I'll disagree about Libby deserving to go to jail: the Republicans want to smear Plame's hubby, Ambassador Wilson, well thats fair ball in politics but you don't fuck around with the identities of people who are doing/have done covert work. Libby didn't leak it per se but he covered and clouded the issue for those who did: that deserves the full sentence handed down. Politics is a dirty game but there are rules and limits.
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

Post by Boogahz »

As to the comments regarding the case with the 17-year-old in Georgia, the last I heard was that his prison time was voided by a judge who ruled that his conduct should have been punished as a misdemeanor. The prosecuters had appealed the judge's decision though. Is there more information I have missed about that?
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

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Boogahz wrote:As to the comments regarding the case with the 17-year-old in Georgia, the last I heard was that his prison time was voided by a judge who ruled that his conduct should have been punished as a misdemeanor. The prosecuters had appealed the judge's decision though. Is there more information I have missed about that?
After he served time in jail.
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

Post by masteen »

Coming up on almost 2 years now. The sad, sad part is that the Georgia DA is actually fighting the appeal, despite the fact the law it was based on is no longer in effect.
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

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Sueven wrote:I find it really difficult to care about this at all.

How is this taking a giant shit on the constitution? The constitution is the whole reason that Bush has the power to commute this guys sentence. He's acting in line with the constitution, in this case at least.

The point of prosecuting Libby was not that Scooter Libby Is A Bad Person And Deserves To Go To Jail. The point of prosecuting him was The Bush Administration Has Done Some Fucked Up Things And Deserves To Be Censured. Scooter was a proxy, an instrument via which a rebuke was delivered to the entire administration. This rebuke accomplished goals both symbolic (obtaining testimony from white house officials, obtaining a conviction against Libby, etc) and substantive (forcing the executive branch to submit to some degree to the legislative and judicial branches, drawing public attention to the issue, forcing the administration to expend significant political capital). None of these accomplishments are negated by the commutation. In fact, Bush was forced to spend even more political capital specifically because of the commutation.

Is it still fucked up that Bush would commute his buddy's sentence because it's his buddy? Sure. Is it fucked up that the 17 year old who got a blowjob from a 15 year old can't get his prison sentence commuted, while Scooter can? Sure. Is it fucked up that presidents in general use their pardons in order to promote nepotism and cronyism instead of justice and fairness? Sure. But I prefer to save my righteous indignation for things that are actually consequential. This is simply a sexy story that does a good job playing into peoples pre-existing sentiments about Bush. There's plenty of things to be angry at Bush about-- he seems to have a religious litmus test for civil service appointees, he seats ideologues on the federal courts, he seems to be largely incapable of diplomacy and cooperation in any meaningful sense. These things get me heated. Bush commuting Libby's sentence isn't going to earn much more than an eyeroll from me.
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Section 3. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.
I'd love to hear an argument of how exposing the identity of an undercover intelligence officer of the United States is NOT treason.
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

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Xyun wrote:I'd love to hear an argument of how exposing the identity of an undercover intelligence officer of the United States is NOT treason.
Her cover was weak, she wasn't covert at the time, and she wasn't in any danger. She was dealing with energy policy (which you love so much), not terrorists. Oh and the whole thing was unintentional. Happy now?
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

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Ah ok. Sounds like it was no big deal then!
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

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Fash wrote:
Xyun wrote:I'd love to hear an argument of how exposing the identity of an undercover intelligence officer of the United States is NOT treason.
Her cover was weak, she wasn't covert at the time, and she wasn't in any danger. She was dealing with energy policy (which you love so much), not terrorists. Oh and the whole thing was unintentional. Happy now?

ok monkey brain. Let me simplify the question:

IS EXPOSING AN UNDERCOVER AGENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IN A TIME OF WAR TREASON?

It's a fucking yes or no question. Answer it thusly, unless you are a coward.
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

Post by Fash »

it's not that black and white. there's context to every issue.

if the agent in question was dealing with said enemies in war and he was under great danger because of it, yes, it would be treason of the highest order.

if the agent is an energy policy research analyst that used a fake name when out of the country, who wasn't currently undercover, and who wasn't in any danger... then no, it's just crap.
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

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she wasn't covert at the time
What a blatant fucking lie.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18924679/

Why would there be any reason to be covert if the agent's life or national security were not at risk?
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

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Fash wrote:it's not that black and white. there's context to every issue.
In this case no there isn't, it's pretty straightforward. This was the whitehouse spanking someone for misbehaving, getting caught redhanded and when the grandstanding and obstruction didn't work, someone taking a fall for it.
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

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Aabidano wrote:
Fash wrote:it's not that black and white. there's context to every issue.
In this case no there isn't, it's pretty straightforward. This was the whitehouse spanking someone for misbehaving, getting caught redhanded and when the grandstanding and obstruction didn't work, someone taking a fall for it.
Nobody took a fall for this. Nobody.

Treason was committed against the united states by the white house and NO ONE will be imprisoned.

How you people are not outraged by this is beyond me.
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

Post by Boogahz »

even authors of the bill protecting undercover operatives (from '82?)has said that she did not fit the profile of an undercover agent under the law. Besides, her covert status has nothing to do with Libby's conviction. He was not charged with outing her as an agent. People want him to be held responsible for the leak without taking him to court for the leak itself. He was not found guilty of outing her.
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

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That is nonsense. I never said he was responsible for the leak. He is not responsible for the leak but someone in the administration is, and he is OBSTRUCTING JUSTICE by not complying with the investigation and thus protecting the person who is responsible.
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

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Xyun wrote:That is nonsense. I never said he was responsible for the leak. He is not responsible for the leak but someone in the administration is, and he is OBSTRUCTING JUSTICE by not complying with the investigation and thus protecting the person who is responsible.
Thus we see one of the many flaws in our nation's executive branch. They know this, work it to their advantage and then sit back and cackle as the American people look on with no recourse but to hope for a swift end to the career af that jackhole president we the people elected. Fucking sorry state of affairs. =/
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

Post by Fash »

You guys are fucking drama queens... this is just slightly higher than paris hilton on the news-o-meter. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

Post by Canelek »

Paris Hilton?? Not quite. This is just part of the ongoing shenanigans by our federal government. You can stick your head in the sand if you want.
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

Post by Xyun »

Fash wrote:You guys are fucking drama queens... this is just slightly higher than paris hilton on the news-o-meter. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
Good dodge. If it's no big deal why did you feel compelled to blatantly lie to support your position less than 3 hours before you posted this? I guess it comes naturally to your ilk.

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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

Post by Fash »

I didn't lie. Her "covert" status is bullshit.
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

Post by Braxter »

Boogahz wrote:even authors of the bill protecting undercover operatives (from '82?)has said that she did not fit the profile of an undercover agent under the law. Besides, her covert status has nothing to do with Libby's conviction. He was not charged with outing her as an agent. People want him to be held responsible for the leak without taking him to court for the leak itself. He was not found guilty of outing her.
The authors of the bill don't have anything to do with anything. Once the bill was signed into law, it became illegal to knowingly disclose information revealing the identity of a covert U.S. operative. Whether the present case fits the description of 50 U.S.C. §421 is a matter for the prosecution to bring before a court and a judge or jury to decide, not (retired Republican) legislators.

Whether treason was committed is also an issue for the courts to decide. While outing this particular CIA agent was treacherous, underhanded, self-serving, vindictive, snide and perhaps evil, it may or may not have been treason. The present problem is that the law may have been broken and nobody is doing anything more about it. And really, why would they? Those responsible for trying the case were hired by those who broke the law. The precedent has already been set that disloyalty will be met with termination.

People lied, then told lies about the lies they told, then lied about who else might have lied about the lie, all to cover up the fact that someone told the truth when they shouldn't have. The fact that nobody gives a fuck is symptomatic of our collective cynicism. The fact that some don't think that there was any wrong-doing is symptomatic of an even larger problem: blind ignorance.
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

Post by Xyun »

Fash wrote:I didn't lie. Her "covert" status is bullshit.
Apparently, you know more about the CIA than the fucking CIA. Denying that the sky is blue does not make the sky any less blue.
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

Post by Boogahz »

What about charging the person that released the information? Armitage? OH WAIT! They've known he was the primary source, yet for some reason they can't seem to close the case on him. Nobody cares about that though.
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Re: Bush commutes Libby sentence

Post by Xyun »

Maybe they don't have a case against him because Libby OBSTRUCTED JUSTICE.

Why are you defending these criminals?
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