Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

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Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by redeemed »

pardon my french but what the fucking fuck...
HUDSON OAKS, Texas — Nothing seemed out of the ordinary when Gilberta Estrada held her infant daughter outside her white-and-brown trailer that muggy spring afternoon.

But by the next morning, she had apparently hanged herself and her four young daughters in a closet in their mobile home, authorities said. Only her 8-month-old survived.

They were discovered by the woman's sister, Alejandra Estrada, who lives across the street and had broken into the locked trailer after her sister's employer called Tuesday morning to say she missed work, authorities said.

Alejandra Estrada heard sounds from the infant — who was hanging by her tiny neck from the arm of a sweater — and quickly pulled the baby out of the noose before calling for help, Parker County Sheriff Larry Fowler said.

On the 911 tape, the hysterical woman can be heard saying in Spanish, "Tell them to hurry because the little girl is dying. My sister hung herself." She also gives the phone to her young daughter, who tells the 911 operator in English that her aunt and cousins are "sick really bad" and need an ambulance.

Filly Echeverria, who said she was the children's godmother, identified the dead children as Maria Teresa Estrada, Janet Frayre and Magaly Frayre. Authorities said they believed their ages were 5, 3 and 2.

The infant, Evelyn Frayre, was listed in good condition at a Fort Worth hospital, Fowler said.

He said the hangings appeared to be murder-suicide because the doors were locked from the inside and a relative said the 25-year-old woman had been depressed. He said they had last been seen alive Monday afternoon outside the trailer and things appeared normal for the family.

He said more information, such as how long they had been dead and whether the children were drugged or suffocated before they were hanged, could be revealed after the autopsies were performed Wednesday.

There were no stools or chairs under the bodies, Fowler said. After hanging her daughters with pieces of clothing tied around a wooden board serving as a clothes rod, Estrada apparently looped the noose around her neck, leaned into it and buckled her knees to kill herself, he said.

"My mind cannot get around how all this can happen," Fowler said. "It's almost unthinkable."

Fowler said Gilberta Estrada had won a temporary restraining order in August against Gregorio Frayre Rodriguez, believed to be the father of Evelyn and some of the other youngsters, after a domestic violence incident involving Estrada.

Fowler said the couple had stopped living together in February. Tuesday was the first emergency police call to that trailer, and Fowler said there was no evidence that Frayre abused the girls.

Attempts to reach Frayre, 38, were not immediately successful.

Child Protective Services will decide who takes custody of the baby, Fowler said.

Gilberta Estrada's trailer was dilapidated, with some paint peeling off. Cactus plants and a rose bush were growing in the front. Toys and a bicycle littered the back.

"I just got a big kick out of watching the kids play over there on her porch, and today it's sad, very sad," said neighbor Joyce Harris, as other residents of the trailer park in this town of 1,600 about 25 miles west of Fort Worth milled about on their porches, some crying and talking softly about the deaths.

Maria, the 5-year-old, attended pre-kindergarten at Coder Elementary, where classes were not scheduled to end until early June. Principal Jason Beaty said extra counselors would be on hand Wednesday.

Texas has seen a number of child killings by mothers in recent years.

Less than five years earlier, another Hudson Oaks family was torn apart when Dee Etta Perez, 39, shot her three children, ages 4, 9 and 10, before killing herself.

Andrea Yates drowned her five children in the family's Houston bathtub in 2001. In 2003, Deanna Laney beat her two young sons to death and injured a third with stones in East Texas, and Lisa Ann Diaz drowned her two daughters in a Plano bathtub. Dena Schlosser fatally severed her 10-month-old daughter's arms with a kitchen knife in 2004.

All four of those women were found innocent by reason of insanity. Yates initially was convicted of capital murder, but that verdict was overturned on appeal.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/4846340.html

also found here: http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/ ... 07777.html
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Siji »

I can't come up with words to express my disgust and hatred of someone that would do this sort of thing.

I agree that there should be some sort of license to have children. And that the US is fucked.
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Aslanna »

And what do you propose such "licensing" would entail?

Not that it would matter because it would be stricken down as unconstitutional before the ink dried.
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Funkmasterr »

Aslanna wrote:And what do you propose such "licensing" would entail?

Not that it would matter because it would be stricken down as unconstitutional before the ink dried.
The test should consist of a few things:

1- Anyone that is a religious fanatic should be immediately fixed and allowed no children adopted or natural.

2- You have to prove you are financially fit to have a child.

3- Take a test with common sense questions, and if you fail you cannot reproduce

4- A psych evaluation to assure you are of a sound mind and won't do something like mentioned above.

5- If all of the above are met, you have to take a parenting course and pass before you are finally licensed to have children.

No, I am not kidding.
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Boogahz »

:-s
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Lynks »

In response to your number 4. Sometimes, people start normal and then become insane.
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Aslanna »

It doesn't matter. As I said no such license requirement would ever make it through the courts. You can't regulate reproduction! Unless you're China. Or George Bush.
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Funkmasterr »

Lynks wrote:In response to your number 4. Sometimes, people start normal and then become insane.
This is true, but unfortunately that's the best you can do.
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Psyloche »

Funkmasterr wrote:
Aslanna wrote:And what do you propose such "licensing" would entail?

Not that it would matter because it would be stricken down as unconstitutional before the ink dried.
The test should consist of a few things:

1- Anyone that is a religious fanatic should be immediately fixed and allowed no children adopted or natural.

2- You have to prove you are financially fit to have a child.

3- Take a test with common sense questions, and if you fail you cannot reproduce

4- A psych evaluation to assure you are of a sound mind and won't do something like mentioned above.

5- If all of the above are met, you have to take a parenting course and pass before you are finally licensed to have children.

No, I am not kidding.
So you could never have kids?... ZING! Somebody had to say it.

Licensing is never going to happen and would be horribly implemented if it was, suggesting that it'd be a good idea is a waste of time.
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Funkmasterr »

Psyloche wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:
Aslanna wrote:And what do you propose such "licensing" would entail?

Not that it would matter because it would be stricken down as unconstitutional before the ink dried.
The test should consist of a few things:

1- Anyone that is a religious fanatic should be immediately fixed and allowed no children adopted or natural.

2- You have to prove you are financially fit to have a child.

3- Take a test with common sense questions, and if you fail you cannot reproduce

4- A psych evaluation to assure you are of a sound mind and won't do something like mentioned above.

5- If all of the above are met, you have to take a parenting course and pass before you are finally licensed to have children.

No, I am not kidding.
So you could never have kids?... ZING! Somebody had to say it.

Licensing is never going to happen and would be horribly implemented if it was, suggesting that it'd be a good idea is a waste of time.
Haha..

And I know it would never work and more than likely will never happen. But..... I have a dream... Where all stupid and crazy people are infertile!!
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Fairweather Pure »

Funkmasterr wrote:
Aslanna wrote:And what do you propose such "licensing" would entail?

Not that it would matter because it would be stricken down as unconstitutional before the ink dried.
The test should consist of a few things:

1- Anyone that is a religious fanatic should be immediately fixed and allowed no children adopted or natural.

2- You have to prove you are financially fit to have a child.

3- Take a test with common sense questions, and if you fail you cannot reproduce

4- A psych evaluation to assure you are of a sound mind and won't do something like mentioned above.

5- If all of the above are met, you have to take a parenting course and pass before you are finally licensed to have children.

No, I am not kidding.
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Funkmasterr »

You know - it's funny that I haven't heard that word used since about 2nd or 3rd grade, go figure I would hear it here!
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Nick »

I think we both know that the chances of you having not heard the word "wigger" at least twenty times in the last week alone are about as low as your reply to this being much other than "shut up liberal potato eater"
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Funkmasterr »

Nick wrote:I think we both know that the chances of you having not heard the word "wigger" at least twenty times in the last week alone are about as low as your reply to this being much other than "shut up liberal potato eater"
Potato eater, im gonna have to remember that one :lol:
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by redeemed »

I like potatoes. nice derails ;p
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Siji »

Logan's Run!
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by masteen »

It could be argued that one of the things that makes high civilization possible is birth control. Be it through the early militaristic method of sending surplus males off to die in battle, Greek pederasty, or the Egyptian and Roman use of silphium, all the ancient powers had their means of population control.

But now, despite having more effective methods for preventing pregnancy, we have a problem with unwanted pregnancy due to ignorance and bullshit religious dogma. If people are too stupid to regulate themselves, perhaps it's time to do it for them. I've said it before: mandatory depo shots for every woman on public assistance. If you wanna breed, stop sucking from the public tit.
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Funkmasterr »

masteen wrote:It could be argued that one of the things that makes high civilization possible is birth control. Be it through the early militaristic method of sending surplus males off to die in battle, Greek pederasty, or the Egyptian and Roman use of silphium, all the ancient powers had their means of population control.

But now, despite having more effective methods for preventing pregnancy, we have a problem with unwanted pregnancy due to ignorance and bullshit religious dogma. If people are too stupid to regulate themselves, perhaps it's time to do it for them. I've said it before: mandatory depo shots for every woman on public assistance. If you wanna breed, stop sucking from the public tit.



/agree
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

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masteen wrote:It could be argued that one of the things that makes high civilization possible is birth control. Be it through the early militaristic method of sending surplus males off to die in battle, Greek pederasty, or the Egyptian and Roman use of silphium, all the ancient powers had their means of population control.

But now, despite having more effective methods for preventing pregnancy, we have a problem with unwanted pregnancy due to ignorance and bullshit religious dogma. If people are too stupid to regulate themselves, perhaps it's time to do it for them. I've said it before: mandatory depo shots for every woman on public assistance. If you wanna breed, stop sucking from the public tit.
It's nice to know I'm not the only person who feels this way... if you want to breed you have to be able to support your offspring! Why should I pay for someone else's children.
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Fairweather Pure »

If the poor don't breed, then who are we going to send off to fight our wars for us? Seriously.
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Funkmasterr »

Fairweather Pure wrote:If the poor don't breed, then who are we going to send off to fight our wars for us? Seriously.

Just off the top of my head, I can think of 12-15 of my friends that are in various branches of the military, and none of them were raised anywhere below upper middle class. I guess either you are baiting, being a dick or we have different definitions of poor.
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Trek »

I think(am not 100% sure) they where illegal immigrants so any type of procreation law wouldnt apply to them, like most of our laws. But it is always a good idea to introduce new law that only hampers our legal society, its working so well.
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Nick »

Funkmasterr wrote:
Fairweather Pure wrote:If the poor don't breed, then who are we going to send off to fight our wars for us? Seriously.

Just off the top of my head, I can think of 12-15 of my friends that are in various branches of the military, and none of them were raised anywhere below upper middle class. I guess either you are baiting, being a dick or we have different definitions of poor.
Yes it's a well known fact that the majority of the Army is filled with "upper middle class" recruits :roll:
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Boogahz »

Nick wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:
Fairweather Pure wrote:If the poor don't breed, then who are we going to send off to fight our wars for us? Seriously.

Just off the top of my head, I can think of 12-15 of my friends that are in various branches of the military, and none of them were raised anywhere below upper middle class. I guess either you are baiting, being a dick or we have different definitions of poor.
Yes it's a well known fact that the majority of the Army is filled with "upper middle class" recruits :roll:
I know that there are some/many, but all that I know in the US armed forces are middle class.
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Zaelath »

Boogahz wrote:
Nick wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:
Fairweather Pure wrote:If the poor don't breed, then who are we going to send off to fight our wars for us? Seriously.

Just off the top of my head, I can think of 12-15 of my friends that are in various branches of the military, and none of them were raised anywhere below upper middle class. I guess either you are baiting, being a dick or we have different definitions of poor.
Yes it's a well known fact that the majority of the Army is filled with "upper middle class" recruits :roll:
I know that there are some/many, but all that I know in the US armed forces are middle class.
Everyone you *know* is likely to be middle class, what's your point? Everyone I know is white, does that mean everyone is white?
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Aslanna »

November 7, 2005
Who Bears the Burden? Demographic Characteristics of U.S. Military Recruits Before and After 9/11

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Nation ... a05-08.cfm

I hadn't read it myself but looks fairly thorough!

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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

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Isn't heritage a right-wing think-tank?
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

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Hell if I know! Feel free to find another source to share with the rest of the class.
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Trek »

I thought they took in candidates per their asvab scores and such, which would lean toward +middle class being the ones in the armed services. Perhaps there was a draft while I was sleeping
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Boogahz »

Zaelath wrote:
Boogahz wrote:
Nick wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:
Fairweather Pure wrote:If the poor don't breed, then who are we going to send off to fight our wars for us? Seriously.

Just off the top of my head, I can think of 12-15 of my friends that are in various branches of the military, and none of them were raised anywhere below upper middle class. I guess either you are baiting, being a dick or we have different definitions of poor.
Yes it's a well known fact that the majority of the Army is filled with "upper middle class" recruits :roll:
I know that there are some/many, but all that I know in the US armed forces are middle class.
Everyone you *know* is likely to be middle class, what's your point? Everyone I know is white, does that mean everyone is white?
Don't believe the hype!
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Boogahz »

Trek wrote:I thought they took in candidates per their asvab scores and such, which would lean toward +middle class being the ones in the armed services. Perhaps there was a draft while I was sleeping
but that doesn't make good news! The faces you will see will be those from lower-income families that went into the armed forces to earn money for college. They are also the most likely to complain about being deployed because of the reason they enlisted in the first place.
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Braxter »

I haven't been an active poster in current events for some time, but felt the urge since math is involved.
Zaelath wrote:Isn't heritage a right-wing think-tank?
Yes:
Wikipedia wrote:The Heritage Foundation is a conservative public policy research institute based in Washington, D.C., in the United States.

Heritage's stated mission is to "formulate and promote conservative public policies based on the principles of free enterprise, limited government, individual freedom, traditional American values, and a strong national defense." Its operations have transformed the traditional concept of the "think tank" and have had a significant impact on the domestic and foreign policies of the United States government.
The first cell in that table is all you need to understand to see through their bullshit agenda. They're trying to prove the point that the military isn't filled with broke people, but they're skewing numbers because in truth, the military *is* filled with broke people.
Heritage.org wrote:Recruits are not disproportionately poor. Mean household income for recruits in 1999 was $41,141 (in 2000 dollars), compared to the general population median of $41,994. Recruits came from households with an average 1999 income of $42,822.
This is cute. They're comparing mean to median. I learned in 7th grade that you can't do that, but I guess it's okay when you want to transform the traditional concept of the "think tank." Sounds like they're getting rid of the word "think."

Mean: the average of a set of numbers
Median: the middle number in a set of numbers

Means and medians aren't interchangeable. According to the census bureau, the median income in 2004 was $43,389, while the mean income was $60,528. It's simple: because of income distribution in the United States, if you want to show that a group of people is poor, you provide their median income. If you want to show that the same group of people is rich, you provide their mean income.

There are more issues at work here as well. The quote says "recruits" but doesn't distinguish the different branches of the military, types of service, or rank. Heritage's claim that recruits are not disproportionately poor is a statistical straw-man. They are countering criticism that wars (specifically the Iraq War) is being fought by the underprivileged. The same argument is in this very thread:
Fairweather Pure wrote:If the poor don't breed, then who are we going to send off to fight our wars for us? Seriously.
the response was:
Funkmasterr wrote:Just off the top of my head, I can think of 12-15 of my friends that are in various branches of the military, and none of them were raised anywhere below upper middle class. I guess either you are baiting, being a dick or we have different definitions of poor.
This response completely ignored the fact that being in the military doesn't necessarily mean fighting wars. The skewed statistics provided by Heritage do the same thing...they mention recruits without showing the relevant numbers.

So who dies in wars? Infantry personnel. Who doesn't die in wars? Navy captains and Air National Guard members. A real statistical argument against the claim that "the poor do the dying in wars" would provide numbers that show the distribution across different branches of the military, income versus rank, likelihood of death versus rank, and so on. And it certainly wouldn't compare means to medians.
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Sueven »

Baxter's right about the flaws in using that data to draw conclusions. However, Aslanna's "well then find another source" point still stands-- we have nothing demonstrable thus far.

masteen wrote:But now, despite having more effective methods for preventing pregnancy, we have a problem with unwanted pregnancy due to ignorance and bullshit religious dogma. If people are too stupid to regulate themselves, perhaps it's time to do it for them. I've said it before: mandatory depo shots for every woman on public assistance. If you wanna breed, stop sucking from the public tit.
I'm on board with mandatory methods of lowering birth rates, especially unwanted birth rates, in general. However, this program, as phrased, is stunningly misogynist. If it's implied that men are also forced to be made infertile when they go on public assistance, then that's different.

I'm a fan of developing a nationwide, mandatory, safe, easily reversible method of sterilizing children at birth or sometime during childhood. Under this nationwide-mandatory scenario, the procedure could be performed upon only boys, only girls, or both boys and girls, depending upon the most efficient procedure. Anyone who wanted to reverse the procedure should be able to do so by request, and the reversal should be publicly funded. The effect would simply be to change the default-- instead of choosing to use birth control in order to not have children, couples would have to explicitly choose to have children. Doesn't interfere with peoples rights in a way that I think is a particularly radical departure from what we've done before and what we think is justified, and would almost totally eliminate unplanned pregnancies.
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by masteen »

Sueven wrote:I'm on board with mandatory methods of lowering birth rates, especially unwanted birth rates, in general. However, this program, as phrased, is stunningly misogynist. If it's implied that men are also forced to be made infertile when they go on public assistance, then that's different.
Is there a non-permanent, hormonal method to do that to men? I've never heard of it, and giving (and then reversing once a guy gets a job or whatever) vasectomies isn't in any way realistic. Otherwise, I'd definitely be in favor for both sexes.
"There is at least as much need to curb the cruel greed and arrogance of part of the world of capital, to curb the cruel greed and violence of part of the world of labor, as to check a cruel and unhealthy militarism in international relationships." -Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Zamtuk »

I can't believe that no one mentioned that this happened in Texas.

Because it did.
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Sueven »

Dunno. I'd be curious to find out.

Interesting question though. Is lowering wasteful public spending worth implementing a misogynist program? Hmm
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Markulas »

I want more babies. More babies. We love babies.
I'm going to live forever or die trying
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Truant »

Zamtuk wrote:I can't believe that no one mentioned that this happened in Texas.

Because it did.
11th word of the original post?
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Boogahz »

Truant wrote:
Zamtuk wrote:I can't believe that no one mentioned that this happened in Texas.

Because it did.
11th word of the original post?
He's just trying to compensate for the inadequacy of his own State.
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Zamtuk »

Bah, Adex would have taken that bait.
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Boogahz »

Zamtuk wrote:Bah, Adex would have taken that bait.
Have you completed your sentence yet? That avatar keeps making me think that Winnow is posting in threads...
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by masteen »

For some reason, Zammykins keeps losing bets. Home teams letting him down this year or something 8)
"There is at least as much need to curb the cruel greed and arrogance of part of the world of capital, to curb the cruel greed and violence of part of the world of labor, as to check a cruel and unhealthy militarism in international relationships." -Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Zamtuk »

yeah done with that underachieving sports school as an avatar*




*i hope the national mullet winner takes a piss on masteen :(
Last edited by Zamtuk on June 17, 2007, 1:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Aslanna »

Zamtuk wrote:<----
I just see a blank margin there. What's going on!
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Zamtuk »

yeah i hit enter a few times to line up my arrow with my avatar. phpbb3 was to have none of that though. i edited accordingly.
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Aslanna »

I meant it should have been something like ------>

It was pointing the wrong way!
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Winnow »

Looks like it's time to make some more avatar bets!
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Re: Mother hangs herself, 4 children; infant found alive

Post by Zamtuk »

Aslanna wrote:I meant it should have been something like ------>

It was pointing the wrong way!
Oh, thats a bitch. I set my forum back up to subsilver, where the avatars are on the left, rightfully so, and didn't consider the new board settings.

I blame Sylvus for this error.
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