Greg Oden found to be 48 Years Old

[Winnow]

Not really. They got beat at home by 3. They had a lot of momentum going into that game even with the suspensions. It seemed like the Suns were more willing to use Game 4 more as an excuse than a motivational tool after Game 5. There was absolutely no reason for the Suns to have lost Game 5, none. The Spurs could barely hit rim or backboard that game and the Suns slacked majorly on defense because of it, allowing that comeback. Game 6 purely justifies my point.

It justifies nothing as everything was knocked off course with the suspensions.

I'll argue it for years but I'm not too concerned about it now. It's an * and it will be brought up years from now when this year is discussed.

[Gzette]

by you

[Zamtuk]

How was game 6 knocked off course by suspensions? If anything, the suspensions helped Phoenix more than hurt them for game 6. Two more extra days rest on two key players should have more than aided the Suns to force a game 7 back at home, but it didn't. Then they resorted to blaming the whole loss/season on one fucking game (game 5, which, again, they should have won).

Yeah, it sucked that they got suspended and you're right, it wasn't warranted to the extent that it went, but suck it up already. It was a best of seven series don't get pissy about one single game that should have been the catalyst that Phoenix needed to win the championship, but it wasn't, and they instead turned it into the crutch that was swept out from underneath them.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

The playoffs still going on? I tuned out after the Warriors left and the Suns got fucked in the arse.

[Aardor]

How was game 6 knocked off course by suspensions? If anything, the suspensions helped Phoenix more than hurt them for game 6. Two more extra days rest on two key players should have more than aided the Suns to force a game 7 back at home, but it didn't. Then they resorted to blaming the whole loss/season on one fucking game (game 5, which, again, they should have won).

It hurt them more than helped them because their three star players had to play a ton of minutes (47 minutes for Raja Bell, 46 for Shawn Marion, 46 for Steve Nash) in game 5 to even compete with the Spurs. Granted, that can be regarded as a coaching mistake, but I still don't think that being suspended for a home game helps you win the next away game, against a team that matches about great against your style of basketball.

[Winnow]

How was game 6 knocked off course by suspensions? If anything, the suspensions helped Phoenix more than hurt them for game 6.

I've got a response to that...

What!?

[Truant]

way to be a sore loser winnow.

[Winnow]

In this particular case, I'd be a sore loser if I felt the Suns lost, but they were robbed of a fair chance. I am able to concede defeat and do with the Cardinals every year as well as the previous years whenever the Suns get eliminated.

The Suns and Spurs will probably end up playing each other at some point in the playoffs next year as well so it's not over.

I'm ready to forget about the NBA for awhile but not until after the lotto drawing tomorrow. If you want to root against the Suns, hope Atlanta gets a top three pick.

[Winnow]

Who Has the Most to Lose at the NBA Draft Lottery?

Posted May 21st 2007 6:05PM by The Big Lead

Careful, it's not as simple as it seems. On the surface, you might say Memphis, but sorry, that would be incorrect. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200. I won't lie to you - I'm more pumped for the lottery and the actual draft than either conference Final. Weighing in all sorts of factors, here's your breakdown of the five teams with the most to lose when the hopper goes into motion Tuesday:

1. Atlanta - There's no debating this. If the Hawks don't end up with a Top 3 pick, this franchise is doomed for at least five more seasons. These guys will be so far up the creek, Kevin Willis might as well unretire - again - and start at power forward next year.

2. Boston - Fact: this franchise, which hasn't been a legit contender since Larry Bird walked out of the Garden, needs a serious infusion of talent. Doc Rivers will be groveling for a top two pick, and Danny Ainge is probably willing to sell at least one kidney for Oden or Durant. The Celtics are in dire need of a center, and could go ahead and mortgage the rest of the roster for Durant. Al Horford? Corey Brewer? Brandon Wright? Probably not going to turn these guys into legit contenders.

3. Phoenix - Potentially landmark summer approaching in the desert. What to do with Shawn Marion? Would they actually entertain trading Amare (sure as heck hope not)? If the Suns land the 4th pick in the draft, that will give them three first rounders and instantly make them major players on the trading market leading up to the draft. Fun!

4. Memphis - How can a team with the best chance at Greg Oden fall this low? Because with a 46 percent chance at one of the top two picks, the Grizzlies are sitting pretty. If they didn't get a Top 2 pick, I'd be shocked. Golden State-over-Dallas shocked.

5. Chicago - The Bulls, who in my mind are a center (Jermaine O'Neal? Greg Oden?) away from becoming the best team in the East, could actually come up with the top pick. They have the option of taking the Knicks' No. 1 pick, but New York only has a 1.9 percent chance of getting the first pick. But as Jim Carrey once said, 'so you're saying there's a chance?'

[Boogahz]

2. Boston - Fact: this franchise, which hasn't been a legit contender since Larry Bird walked out of the Garden, needs a serious infusion of talent. Doc Rivers will be groveling for a top two pick, and Danny Ainge is probably willing to sell at least one kidney for Oden or Durant. The Celtics are in dire need of a center, and could go ahead and mortgage the rest of the roster for Durant. Al Horford? Corey Brewer? Brandon Wright? Probably not going to turn these guys into legit contenders.

I'm not sure that I could see Durant as an NBA center as a rookie. I don't think he could possibly gain enough body mass to pull that one off. Oden on the other hand...

[Zamtuk]

they are entertaining durant as a center? that's a fucking laugh, he won't be much of anything until he gains some weight.

[Leonaerd]

Yeah Pistons. Yeah you go Sheed.

This time around, they will -not- lose to the Spurs.

[Zamtuk]

And the Suns get robbed again, right winnow?! (think of this as a blessing, Marion is 40 times better than the third pick will be)

gogo oden to portland.

[Bojangels]

I like the Cavs, but Spurs / Pistons is a much better matchup. Against Cleveland, SA could just send Horry after LeBron and it'd be over. The Pistons don't really have a superstar he could take out that would cripple their team.

[Winnow]

And the Suns get robbed again, right winnow?! (think of this as a blessing, Marion is 40 times better than the third pick will be)

gogo oden to portland.

Marion's gone due to cap issues most likey. It's his last year and they'll need to trade him or lose him. I highly doubt the Suns can pay him 20 million/year.

It sucks that the Suns didn't get Atlanta's pick but I'm glad Atlanta didn't get one of the top two picks. Hopefully Atlanta will be bad enough that their pick will be in the lotto again next year although Atlanta is on the upswing IMO.

I have a feeling that the Suns are going to package their two remaining 1st round picks this year, their first round pick from Atlanta next year and Marion for something. Marion's stock is high. He even finished the playoffs with some decent games which was a knock on him.

Suns are going to need a backup PG...a real apprentice type backup for Nash and will also need a new SF. Unlike last off season, something major will go down for the Suns due to the cap and Marion's situation.

[Gzette]

heh this thread sure died since the Suns lost. I guess it's no big shocker that no one cares about a Spurs/Detroit championship matchup. I bet the league guys are pissed. Hopefully the Cavs will make it so we have at least a little variety, though I imagine that they'd get stomped by SA.

[noel]

As long as Chris Webber doesn't get a ring!

[Winnow]

Leonaerd, you've paid your avatar bet. You may now switch your avatar from Steve Nash to whatever you wish!

I wonder if we still can't see Zamtuk's avatar in phpBB3 of if he just doesn't have one atm...hmmm, guess he can pay his avatar bet come draft day!

[Sylvus]

i'm virtually certain that you'd be able to see it now

[noel]

So I wonder if tonight was Lebron's coming out party. That was a hell of a game against a hell of a team. Winning at the Palace in Auburn Hills isn't exactly easy.

[Winnow]

I didn't see the game but in the highlights LeBron looked awesome tonight.

Looks like Detroit took a page out of the Spurs cheater handbook and tried the dirty plays tonight but failed. They should have closelined LeBron instead. The hairy guy wasn't a big enough deal to get people off the bench.

ps Detroit: try to knock the player into the stands closer to the opponent's bench for maximum cheapshot effectiveness!

[noel]

As someone who watched the game and was rooting for everyone but Chris Webber, I can tell you that the officiating in the game was generally bad, Detroit probably got the short end of the stick, and the McDyess ejection was a horrible call. It was a hard foul, but it didn't look intentional, and it didn't look like it was done out of malice. The NBA seems to be content to water down their game in an effort to avoid another Artest/Jackson super-smash bros. episode.

As bad as it was, the officiating isn't why Detroit lost, and it was easily the best played game on both sides of the '07 playoffs. Chauncey Billups had an insane 3-pointer late in the game that was money. That guy has such an incredible swagger and ability to just do shit like that as if it's no big deal. Really incredible. Had Lebron not been matching the Pistons shot for shot, the Cavs would have lost. He answered a lot of people last night who'd previously been asking if he could put his team on his back and will them to win ala Jordan.

Edit: Wow! Steve Kerr as the Suns President and GM! That's an AWESOME hire. You guys just got extremely lucky. Kerr is probably one of my favorite basketball players of all time. I think I just became a Suns fan.

[Sylvus]

That game was pretty sick. Too bad my team lost. LeBron had like 29 of the team's last 30 points, ridiculous. I kind of hate that guy though, he gets too many calls in his favor. And I really hate Anderson Varejao (sp?), that guy is such a well-known flopper, he only gets what he deserves.

I don't know if I'd say Detroit had too many cheap shots, and tossing Dyess was a little overboard.

Oh well, time to steal one in Cleveland.

[Aardor]

As someone who watched the game and was rooting for everyone but Chris Webber, I can tell you that the officiating in the game was generally bad, Detroit probably got the short end of the stick, and the McDyess ejection was a horrible call. It was a hard foul, but it didn't look intentional, and it didn't look like it was done out of malice. The NBA seems to be content to water down their game in an effort to avoid another Artest/Jackson super-smash bros. episode.

Though I completely agree with you, the foul was clearly flagrant, and I believe that since he hit him in the head/neck area, it was an automatic flagrant two. The clip they showed after the game, of the refs talking the call over, made it pretty clear that it was an open and shut call.

A simply amazing performance by Lebron. "You've got to get the ball out of his hands!"

[noel]

I've pulled the Sun's bandwagon up alongside the Cav's bandwagon for anyone that wants to jump across! I really love Lebron's game.

Nice to see Chris Webber not contending for a title yet again. I figure he only has another 5 or so years of poisoning whatever team he's on before he'll retire.

I feel bad for Rip Hamilton and Antonio McDyess; two totally class act NBAers.

[Winnow]

I'll jump on the Cavs bandwagon for the finals. In all honesty, I don't expect them to beat the Spurs but the Spurs played dirty to get where they're at and everyone knows, whether they admit it or not, that it should have been Suns vs East. That the east team happens to be the Cavs would have made the finals even more entertaining.

I was really happy to see Bore-troit lose!

Just say no to teams that have to hack their way to the finals.

[Kelshara]

I am cheering for the Spurs. Not only because they are my team, but because they make Winnow whine like a little bitch. Which is music to my ears.

[Winnow]

Grats dirty playing cheaters on the championship!

I found out by reading a blog that they won...here's how the posts were going

-majority were discussing how the Suns and Spurs are the best teams in the NBA and the we'll never know who would have won if the NBA had some common sense about rulings so those two teams had a real series without suspensions on the Suns side and dirty play on the Spurs side.

-next highest percentage of posts were about how bad the East sucks and that they should have an NCAA type seeding after the season so the Suns and Spurs would have a shot to play each other in the finals and have some decent ratings while avoiding the crappy East.

-next were the posts about how while the Spurs are good, they're as boring to watch as they come and that they do look decent if they play an up tempo team like the Suns or Mavs...another case for ditching the East and going with an NCAA seeding type playoffs. (it will balance out eventually but who cares...seeding the entire playoffs would be a good idea every year)

-Next were comments about the worst ratings ever for an NBA series

----

My own thoughts on the NBA...it's too fucking strict. Stern has taken all style out of the game with the lame dress codes and attempt to remove all emotion from the players with hair trigger T's and crackdown on any sort of emotion on the court.

The more I hear Stern speak, the more I think he needs to be booted ASAP. The dude does not understand that the NBA must ENTERTAIN...if the fans and TV audience are bored to tears from the "Equilibrium" type crackdown on emotion and style in the league, it's going to fail.

*

[Boogahz]

With the Spurs victory, hurricane preparations were kicked off along the Texas coast. Hurricanes struck Texas after the three prior Spurs championships!

[Kelshara]

I still find Winnow's whining highly amusing. And I still laugh at anyone who claims the Spurs is a boring team.

[Boogahz]

I still find Winnow's whining highly amusing. And I still laugh at anyone who claims the Spurs is a boring team.

Yeah, a co-worker and I were talking about something that Winnow seems to have missed in his recent attraction to the NBA. There are reasons that teams want veteran players with Playoff/Championship experience on their teams beyond stats.

[masteen]

I just don't get how you can call a team that averages over 100 points a game "boring."

Because they don't chuck up hundreds of bricks, thus causing a melee for the rebound? Maybe the fact that they pass the ball more than twice confuses people? Perhaps it's the fact that one guy doesn't score half their points every night, thus making people have to know 5 or even SIX players on the team?

[Pherr the Dorf]

*

[StupidMcDupid]

Is "suns fan" still whining that they got owned in the 2nd round? lol

It was fun last night after we crushed those weakling cavs winning the 4th in 9 years,A.K.A Dynasty!!!

I was drunk off my ass last night walking around downtown,the whole city was going crazy.Too bad "suns fan" will never get to experience something like that simply because they arent on the spurs level .

And how about Tony Parker,he gots Hall-of-Fame written all over him,3 championships and 1 MVP finals trophy at only 25 years old.

Spurs are going to re-peat,because this off-season we will recruit more veteran old men who know what to do and show up for the playoffs in 08'.

[Zamtuk]

1. There were only 3 dynasty's in basketball history (Bulls, UCLA, and Russell). San Antonio isn't one of them, yet.

2. The Suns still lost and didn't get to the finals, nothing new, really.

3. The Spurs won't repeat.

4. Kelshara and Masteen already said everything I wanted.

5. Suns still blow and will suck badly next year after losing Marion, and can only hope to get to the playoffs, and not too far into them at that. Sorry, Winnow.

[Winnow]

5. Suns still blow and will suck badly next year after losing Marion, and can only hope to get to the playoffs, and not too far into them at that. Sorry, Winnow.

One of the scenarios for trading Marion is dealing him to the Celtics for the #5 pick and Theo Ratliff (taking on his 11.6 Million expiring contract to even the trade). The Suns would then Package the #5 pick along with whatever it takes of their other two 1st round draft picks and Atlanta's 1st round draft pick for next year and move up to #1 or #2 in the draft, nabbing Oden or Durant. Your OSU star with the looks of a 50 year old and mind of a 13 year old may end up a Sun.

C Oden (K. Thomas)
F Amare (T. Ratliff)
SF Diaw (Grant Hill/J Jones)
G Bell (Barbosa)
G Nash (rookie PG)

Although Marion is my favorite Sun, I do feel like he's going to finally get traded due to salary cap issues. The Suns have NEVER had a big name Center so I wouldn't be surprised if they work whatever deal they need to this year to get Oden.

Who's know what will happen though.

Rumor mill rumblings: Matrix to Celtics
Jerry Brown, Tribune Columnist
Here’s your first decent Shawn Marion rumor of the summer: The Boston Globe quotes an unnamed NBA executive seeing the Suns and Celtics (general manager Danny Ainge loves The Matrix, whom he coached in Phoenix) as ripe partners.

Marion and one of Phoenix’s first-round picks (24th or 29th) would go for Boston’s fifth overall pick — something the Suns hoped to get in the lottery from Atlanta — forward Theo Ratliff (one year left at $11.7 million) and another young player (Delonte West, Tony Allen).

June 6, East Valley Tribune: Worst Shawn Marion rumor so far: An article in Monday's Detroit News suggested the Pistons might be able to lure Marion away from the Suns for a package headed by Rasheed Wallace. What no Ron Artest or Bonzi Wells offers?

I've read from second-hand sources that Marion doesn't like playing second fiddle in Phoenix, not to mention Phoenix's impending luxury tax predicament, so it would make sense that they're shopping him (again).

I can't imagine the Suns wouldn't listen to an offer involving Wallace. He could provide a more solid defensive option against the top big men in the West and his inside/outside game which would probably flow well with the Suns' offensive game plan. It's clear that Wallace doesn't feel the need to be "the man," so deferring to Nash and Stoudemire at this point in his career would come naturally.

That being said, I maintain it's difficult to imagine a lineup where Tayshaun Prince and Shawn Marion would both start. What would the Pistons do at the center position? Start Nazr, or even worse, Amir Johnson. You'd have the lightest front court in modern NBA history.

Boston is really in a terrible spot - possibly the worst in the draft - with the fifth pick. With Paul Pierce as the team's centerpiece and Wally as his backup, it makes no sense to draft a small forward. There is talk Brewer could play shooting guard, but at 6-8, he seems to be an ideal fit at small forward. I've bought into Chad Ford's bluster that Boston wanted Yi Jianlian - not with GM Danny Ainge and coach Doc Rivers needing to win now. Center Roy Hibbert would have made complete sense, but he's going back to Georgetown.

[masteen]

To get the Greg Oden pick from Portland, you'd have to pry it from their cold dead hands. They almost made the playoff this year (if they played in the East, they would have, but that's another issue) and they have plenty of salary cap room. The only thing involving them that I give any credence to is them looking to trade up (maybe to atlanta's #11 pick) so they can pick up Greg Oden's assist machine.

[Zamtuk]

Rumor has it Conley isn't going pro unless he is top 10. He even enrolled in classes for autumn.

So I hear.

[masteen]

Like going #11 to play on the same team as his buddy Oden is some kind of SLAP IN THE FACE or something.

[Winnow]

Wherever Conley goes this year is the highest he'll ever go. His meal ticket is gone...better to ride Oden's coattails into the NBA for a nice payoff.

[Winnow]

How's this starting lineup look for 2008?

G Steve Nash
G Kobe Bryant
G Raja Bell/Grant Hill
F Boris Diaw
C Amare Stoudemire

What the Lakers want for Kobe
Posted: Monday June 18, 2007 06:21AM ET

The Lakers don't intend to trade Kobe Bryant. This is the word being passed to teams: If you are not trading us someone comparable, like LeBron James or Dwyane Wade, there is no one close to Bryant in talent. So we want your two best players -- especially if one is a point guard -- a young big man to go with Andrew Bynum and a draft pick.

That's not happening unless someone liek the Nets send Jason Kidd and Vince Carter to LA for Kobe.

When the Lakers come to their senses, Marion and a Diaw/Barbosa type player along with some picks is what they'll get.

Garnett is also a possibility for the Suns.

Here's some of the free agenst available this off season:

What the Lakers want for Kobe
Posted: Monday June 18, 2007 06:21AM ET

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multim ... ent.1.html

[Zamtuk]

Wherever Conley goes this year is the highest he'll ever go. His meal ticket is gone...better to ride Oden's coattails into the NBA for a nice payoff.

Not really. Cook will stay, and we have a pretty impressive recruiting class coming in, including Kasta Koufos (sp) who is 7'2" and can play the 4 (but won't)

[Pherr the Dorf]

Here is to the Warriors sign and trade Pietrus and Barnes and toss in Harrington to the Kings for Artest, he is their missing link.

[noel]

I think anyone that wants Artest deserves Artest.

I also think putting Artest and Jackson back together is a phenomenal idea. Here's to the two of them making it rain all over Oaktown.

[Pherr the Dorf]

I think anyone that wants Artest deserves Artest.

I also think putting Artest and Jackson back together is a phenomenal idea. Here's to the two of them making it rain all over Oaktown.

I have no doubt it would be entertaining and I have no doubt Nelson could get Artest to run through a wall for him, there will be flare ups but no explosions.

Is there another player the Warriors could actually get that answers every single weakness they have? Is there another player that can guard everyone from Kobe to Lebron to Duncan to Boozer to Amare to Gasol?

Give me my shut down defender against the best player on EVERY team.
Give me a rebound every 6 minutes and 18 points a night, toss in 3.5 assists too please.

Let me play small, run like hell and still have a guy that locks down whoever the other team has, yah, I'll take Artest happily.

I'll take KG and Kobe and a bunch of other people, but I am not going to get them, I can get Artest probably and from a basketball standpoint tell me how he doesn't make sense. I'll let Nelson worry about how to best handle him, he has done wonders with just about any player he has touched.

[Boogahz]

To get the Greg Oden pick from Portland, you'd have to pry it from their cold dead hands. They almost made the playoff this year (if they played in the East, they would have, but that's another issue) and they have plenty of salary cap room. The only thing involving them that I give any credence to is them looking to trade up (maybe to atlanta's #11 pick) so they can pick up Greg Oden's assist machine.

hmmm, http://www.trailblazers.com

[Winnow]

Celtics ask T-Wolves about Garnett
Posted: Tuesday June 19, 2007 07:56AM ET

Celtics director of basketball operations Danny Ainge acknowledged yesterday that he has talked with the Timberwolves about a potential trade for Kevin Garnett. However, Ainge refused to comment about a published report that had the Celts shipping Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Sebastian Telfair, Theo Ratliff and the fifth pick in next week's NBA draft for the All-Star forward.

wtf? Garnett wouldn't win shit in Boston.

[noel]

Garnett won't go anywhere and won't win shit. Grats KG on being a second-rate Karl Malone.

He's a great, loyal, character guy, but short of a late-career move like Gary Payton made, he's not getting a ring ever.

[Tyek]

I just enjoy Winnow's constant Suns lineup updates.

Apparently the Suns can get anyone.

Next year's lineup

PF - Duncan
C - Oden
PG - Nash
SG - Bryant
SF - Durant

Bench -
Garnett
Nowitski
LeBron
Wade
Carmelo
Iverson
Jermaine O'Neal

[Sylvus]

Garnett won't go anywhere and won't win shit. Grats KG on being a second-rate Karl Malone.

He's a first-rate Karl Malone!

Isn't Garnett my age or so? He could still play for like 10 more years if he wanted, he could definitely go somewhere and win a trophy.

P.S. I hate Karl Malone. And John Stockton. And pretty much anyone who was on the Jazz in that era. If I saw Jeff Hornacek in a dark alley I'd stab him in the eye with a rusty knife.