Vista or XP?

Post by **Sylvus** » May 21, 2007, 12:46 pm

My team is all getting new machines in the near future, and my manager asked us to specify if we want Vista or XP. I'm not running Vista anywhere currently, and am leaning in just going that direction.

Can anyone think of any issues with Vista that might make me want to reconsider that decision? This is my work desktop, so any issues with playing video games can be disregarded.

The apps I currently use most often are the Eclipse IDE, Homesite or Dreamweaver or any of the glorified text editor HTML dev environments, MS SQL suite (I'm assuming they'll have a Vista version that works swimmingly), Firefox, Tomcat (jakarta-tomcat), MS Office...

Thx info in advance.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » May 21, 2007, 12:58 pm

I recently installed Vista via VMware just to take a look. I think for an office desktop it would be fine. If you can get used to the differences from XP. I found it just different enough to be annoying. But that's after using XP for years. I'm sure it wouldn't take too much time to become used to the way Vista does things.

Assuming you don't have any exotic hardware, and that you have the horsepower to run it, I don't think you'd have a problem with Vista.

Post by **Sylvus** » May 21, 2007, 1:00 pm

Part of the reason I want to ask for Vista is so that they'll throw more horsepower at me. Granted, if the OS is going to consume more resources of a beefier system than XP will of a lesser one, I might be making a bad choice.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 21, 2007, 1:18 pm

I can't speak for networking beyond basic home stuff) but I haven't run into any apps that don't work with Vista that aren't games.

The only thing you might possibly run into are older versions of apps that can't handle the Aero theme so their titlebars will default to the standard. That doesn't harm anything though and I've managed to upgrade all my apps to versions that support the new theme. That's all aesthetics though and not critical in the least.

The new UI is easy enough to get around but like previous version upgrades, takes awhile to learn the most efficient ways to do things. After you do, I think you'll find it better than XP.

Get 2GB of Ram for sure.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » May 21, 2007, 1:21 pm

My personal opinion is that Vista really has no advantage over XP when it comes to the office desktop. Or at least none I've seen so far. If I were to get a new PC at work I would ask for XP. I know my way around and it basically just lets me get things done. Plus my job doesn't require me to know the 'latest and greatest' OS so that's another consideration.

I honestly don't know the required resources of Vista if you tune it down to not use things like Aero.

Post by **Sylvus** » May 21, 2007, 1:22 pm

Yeah, I currently have 2GB in this machine, and while I don't know exactly what processor it is, it's 2 or 3 years old and a 2GHz (pre-HT, iirc). So I expect the new one to be at least 2GB ram and a much better processor. I also have dual monitors, but I'm sure that works fine under Vista.

I'll probably go ahead and pull the trigger on that one and tell my boss that I want to go with Vista. But mostly only because I'd like to play around with it and get to know it before upgrading at home.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » May 21, 2007, 1:28 pm

Sylvus wrote:Yeah, I currently have 2GB in this machine, and while I don't know exactly what processor it is, it's 2 or 3 years old and a 2GHz (pre-HT, iirc). So I expect the new one to be at least 2GB ram and a much better processor. I also have dual monitors, but I'm sure that works fine under Vista.

I'll probably go ahead and pull the trigger on that one and tell my boss that I want to go with Vista. But mostly only because I'd like to play around with it and get to know it before upgrading at home.

Yes, it does.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 21, 2007, 1:45 pm

I honestly don't see why anyone would want to go back to XP after spending more than a few hours getting used to Vista.

It's the better OS. Take the time to learn the search features etc. It's made up of a bunch of mini improvements. It's not going to wow someone out of the box.

Getting used to it at work seems like a good idea. The Windows/Start menu search is neato.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » May 21, 2007, 1:57 pm

Then Microsoft is lying because they told me "the 'Wow' starts now." Fuckers!

The first thing I did in regards to the menus was set things back to classic where able.

I'm not anti-Vista. It just doesn't seem like much of an improvement based on my (admittedly) rather short usage at this time. Perhaps providing a longer list of what makes it a "better OS" would better inform those who are missing the boat.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » May 21, 2007, 1:59 pm

I can't imagine why you would choose Vista. It's a nice looking resource hog that will ask you 3 times if you're sure anytime you do anything.

I've installed and run it several times, I keep coming back to XP.

Neost · Post by **Neost** » May 21, 2007, 2:04 pm

I've been running vista at home for a while and like it fine. I don't see resource issues and i'm running 2gb of ram, E6400 and nvidia 7900GT.

I'm considering moving back to xp though, because i don't really need the fancy aero interface and such.

UAC is a bitch, but I just disabled it so the only annoyance is the little red shield in the sys tray.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » May 21, 2007, 2:36 pm

http://lifehacker.com/software/vista/wi ... 230866.php is a handy link for telling you how to get rid of the UAC. And the red shield from the task tray.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 21, 2007, 2:47 pm

Neost wrote:
UAC is a bitch, but I just disabled it so the only annoyance is the little red shield in the sys tray.

That's the first thing that anyone that can figure out how to do it should do. If someone can't figure it out, then leaving it on is probably a good idea.

UAC is extremely annoying.

The first time I installed Vista beta, I uninstalled in pretty quick so I know what you vista newbs are going through. Being set in one's ways makes it hard to switch sometimeswith the extra learning curve for the more useful things.

People act like Aero requires SLi with two 8800GTXs or something to use. It's not that big a deal. If you have a machine built within the last two years you should be fine. Aero seems well put together and I have no desire to theme Vista any other way.

Using RDP, I see Aero with the effects/transparency turned off and it still looks good so if you want to save that .005% performance loss, you can turn it off.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » May 21, 2007, 2:57 pm

Winnow wrote:It's the better OS.

Why?

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » May 21, 2007, 3:01 pm

Aabidano wrote:
Winnow wrote:It's the better OS.
Why?

I'm waiting on that too!

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » May 21, 2007, 3:01 pm

I run Vista at home and at work and other than having to work a bit more to solve minor annoyances(less resources through stuff like google so I have to do my own detective work) it's been running fine for me.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 21, 2007, 4:27 pm

Aslanna wrote:
Aabidano wrote:
Winnow wrote:It's the better OS.
Why?
I'm waiting on that too!

Seems more stable to me. Feels rock solid, even more so than XP w/sp2 and I like the added search features. I don't use the sidebar. RDP works well and I have a decent system so I'm not worried if an extra megabyte or two or ram is used...people should be in an uproar over Windows Xp considering how much more memory it uses over dos or Win 3.1. As has been the case year after year...newer system = more ram, more processing power, more more more.

I could be a little windows happy in general after the linux issues and would probably even love Windows 95 atm.

I'd pick Vista over XP but it's not that big a deal if people have hangups over upgrading. The "wow" factor is a lie but it is a better OS imo.

noel · Post by **noel** » May 21, 2007, 6:06 pm

If it were me, in a work environment, I'd ask for XP. There's nothing particularly wrong with Vista, but there's also nothing compelling about it. It's pretty, but there's really nothing that I think is a dramatic improvement over anything in XP.

If they try to fuck you for hardware resources, just spec 64-bit XP.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » May 21, 2007, 10:50 pm

Still no reasons posted as to why one should choose Vista over XP by choice. Probably because there are no reasons.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » May 21, 2007, 11:39 pm

Realistically, were there any reasons to move from 2000 to XP back in the day either?

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » May 22, 2007, 12:15 am

Fash wrote:I can't imagine why you would choose Vista. It's a nice looking resource hog that will ask you 3 times if you're sure anytime you do anything.

I've installed and run it several times, I keep coming back to XP.

^ The perfect post to indicate to you that people who say XP > Vista are just grumpy old men that still don't have cell phones and get angry at people for having sex before marriage.

Vista is marvelous. It resolves issues without you having to know they existed. It has smooth applications for almost anything you can think of. It has a great spyware tool in Windows Defender. Aero is cool. Dreamscene is pointless but hilariously fun if you get Ultimate (assuming you won't, though). The photo / movie program is awesome. The sidebar on the right is cool and has tons of downloadable content online. The search function is way better. The help / support center is comprehensive, intuitive, frequently updated, and fast in its use.

My only two complaints are:

-- there's no "run" box that I can find. I miss the days of typing "msconfig" or "dxdiag" or "cmd" when I wanted to do some maintenance.

-- Nvidia and Microsoft have heavily fucked up on the drivers. Unless I manually put the fans on perma 100%, they'll never run high enough to keep the temps below the shutdown line. Without third party software it's not easy to change the fan speed. I can't play most games as a result, since they still haven't resolved the issue.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » May 22, 2007, 1:08 am

Leonaerd wrote:^ The perfect post to indicate to you that people who say XP > Vista are just grumpy old men that still don't have cell phones and get angry at people for having sex before marriage.

Don't be stupid. Besides which I haven't said XP >Vista. I just don't see the advantage it has over XP. Especially in the office. Honestly I just don't see Vista as that revolutionary.

The only reason I'll bother to install it is when DX10 games start coming out. And that's assuming there's no hack to let it run on XP. Fuck Microsoft for making DX10 Vista only.

Leonaerd wrote:My only two complaints are:

-- there's no "run" box that I can find. I miss the days of typing "msconfig" or "dxdiag" or "cmd" when I wanted to do some maintenance.

-- Nvidia and Microsoft have heavily fucked up on the drivers. Unless I manually put the fans on perma 100%, they'll never run high enough to keep the temps below the shutdown line. Without third party software it's not easy to change the fan speed. I can't play most games as a result, since they still haven't resolved the issue.

Right click on the start bar (unused portion) and do Properties>Start Menu>Customize (top onen ext to Start Menu) then scroll down and select the Run command box. Not to mention Windows+R probably works as always. Wow. It's so intuitive even XP veterans can use it!

As far as the video card fan speed... What's wrong with just using RivaTuner? I'm confused as to why that prevents you from playing most games.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » May 22, 2007, 1:57 am

Aslanna wrote: As far as the video card fan speed... What's wrong with just using RivaTuner? I'm confused as to why that prevents you from playing most games.

Rivatuner's only partially solved the problem for me. More intense applications, like a 32v map in BF2, are entirely unplayable. My guess is the fix is erratic at best (for whatever reason), since Rivatuner was designed by some genius with a lot of time and a serious love for hardware, and not Nvidia's staff. Nvidia's said that it's a driver issue and they're working on it, so I'm hopeful or else I'll be making a quick return to ATI in the future.

Aslanna wrote:
Leonaerd wrote:^ The perfect post to indicate to you that people who say XP > Vista are just grumpy old men that still don't have cell phones and get angry at people for having sex before marriage.
Don't be stupid. Besides which I haven't said XP >Vista. I just don't see the advantage it has over XP. Especially in the office. Honestly I just don't see Vista as that revolutionary.

I was referring to Fash's post with mine. I don't see Vista as revolutionary either, largely because XP was an excellent operating system to begin with. I see it as an $80 upgrade to XP ($150 if you're not a student and $45 if you're in bed with Microsoft). I'm willing to pay that one-time fee for five or so years of better performance.

Right click on the start bar (unused portion) and do Properties>Start Menu>Customize (top onen ext to Start Menu) then scroll down and select the Run command box. Not to mention Windows+R probably works as always. Wow. It's so intuitive even XP veterans can use it!

Thanks! I'd forgotten about Windows + R.

noel · Post by **noel** » May 22, 2007, 2:11 am

*snicker*

Hardcore-power-user who can't find the run box... This might help you, Einstein.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » May 22, 2007, 2:20 am

Whatever. I have no pedestal to fall down from so I don't understand this berating I receive when it comes to the computer forum. The only thing you and I have ever disagreed on is the Nvidia driver issue, which really isn't a debatable topic since Nvidia has said they understand and are working on the issue. Is it so terrible to have forgotten Windows + R? Who even uses the windows key? I didn't remember it was even on modern keyboards until I found out it's used to activate Flip mode in Vista.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » May 22, 2007, 2:58 am

Leonaerd wrote:I was referring to Fash's post with mine. I don't see Vista as revolutionary either, largely because XP was an excellent operating system to begin with. I see it as an $80 upgrade to XP ($150 if you're not a student and $45 if you're in bed with Microsoft). I'm willing to pay that one-time fee for five or so years of better performance.

Honestly I can understand that. But you were making it sound like anyone who preferred to use Vista over XP was a neanderthal. Again, I'm not saying Vista is horrible. I'm sure it's a fine OS. But there's no compelling reason for me to upgrade at this time. It's just an OS not a religion. People should use what they want and what they are comfortable with. Not just upgrade simply because there is something new out.

I'm still not clear on your fan issue. You have the ability, albeit via third party software, to pump up the fan speed and then play a game, then lower it when you're done. I agree this should be easily accomplished by Nvidia with their drivers but it seems like there is a workaround by using RivaTuner. I used it to set mine to 100% at all times. The card (8800) runs hot even then so I can't imagine not running the fans at max all the time.

For the record I support sex before marriage.

(Oh and I love the Windows key (except when playing a game). I use R and E a lot.)

Animalor wrote:Realistically, were there any reasons to move from 2000 to XP back in the day either?

That depends. For the office I don't think there were many reasons other than to stay supported by Microsoft. Which, for a large portion of the corporate world, was reason enough.

The home is a different story though. But I think then the question would be with Windows 98 and not Windows 2000. And the answer to that question is a definite yes. There were lots of reasons to move from 98 to XP. Windows 2000 wasn't really geared towards the home user in my opinion. Especially anyone who played games.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » May 22, 2007, 3:06 am

Aslanna wrote: I'm still not clear on your fan issue. You have the ability, albeit via third party software, to pump up the fan speed and then play a game, then lower it when you're done. I agree this should be easily accomplished by Nvidia with their drivers but it seems like there is a workaround by using RivaTuner. I used it to set mine to 100% at all times. The card (8800) runs hot even then so I can't imagine not running the fans at max all the time.

I've got Zalman + AS5 on it and it runs at 45º C idle, whereas most stock GTSs run at 54-56 idle. Maybe that's the difference. Did you ever get the driver failure message when playing a game (google my title)? It only happens to a portion of Nvidia + Vista users, for whatever reason. The workaround we're both talking about is only a partial fix in that sense. I wasn't clear in my earlier posts.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 22, 2007, 5:28 am

You can also type "run" in the search box in the Vista Start menu and get there...another nice feature of Vistas. I find my less frequently used apps much faster in Vista just by typing their name in the search box.

People need to take the time to learn the search features in Vista. They are quite powerful...It's no Copernic but not bad for being a built in OS search...way way better than XP.

CBR and CBz covers show up automatically in Vista! I don't use that feature but it's pretty amazing that Microsoft took the time to add that considering it's not an official standard and it's not a commercial format.

There is no single reason to upgrade to Vista but I get the feeling most of the anti Vista people on this thread are just looking to break out in some old school dos command bragging contest to show those UI people who's boss!

Vista is solid as a rock for me (the number one thing I want in an OS), adds search features that make finding files and apps much easier (another high priority for me), has plenty of under the hood improvements that I don't know about and don't need to know or care about but know they're there.

People should be customizing their windows no matter which version they have. I had an issue with Directory Opus earlier today and had a conniption. I tried out 4 or 5 other file managers of a top 15 list and they all sucked. Directory Opus is endlessly customizable but I'll take a simple horizontal split window layout with HDs, Network Drives and FTP sites lined up along the left side with no file tree showing FTW!

What's everyone's favorite file manager setup?? I don't like a lot of fluff. I can't imagine how people work without a split window though.

here's mine!

No gay built in file manager viewers, archive managers or other crap activated to slow things down.

I can get shit done speedy-like with this!

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » May 22, 2007, 7:15 am

Animalor wrote:Realistically, were there any reasons to move from 2000 to XP back in the day either?

No, and many businesses that could have done so for free still haven't. Many of those that have only did so as part of a HW upgrade as there was no compelling reason to move (that's from a MS SEC filing).

Hesten · Post by **Hesten** » May 22, 2007, 8:45 am

Aabidano wrote:
Animalor wrote:Realistically, were there any reasons to move from 2000 to XP back in the day either?
No, and many businesses that could have done so for free still haven't. Many of those that have only did so as part of a HW upgrade as there was no compelling reason to move (that's from a MS SEC filing).

We moved from 95 to 98 to XP on workstations (and half the 95 machines only got 98 because we couldnt upgrade from 95 > XP, had to get 98 in first), and from NT4 to 2000 to 2003 on servers.
Doubt well seen Vista here the next 2 years at least.

miir · Post by **miir** » May 22, 2007, 11:31 am

can't imagine why you would choose Vista. It's a nice looking resource hog that will ask you 3 times if you're sure anytime you do anything.

If you can't figure out how to disable UAC, you're probably too stupid to be allowed to use a computer.... either that ot you've never even used Vista.

I was debating to install XP or Vista on my new machine.
We're in the process of building a Vista COE so I got my hands on a copy of Vista Ultimate... it made the decision pretty easy. for the first week I was close to rolling back to XP but I'm glad I stuck with it.

There's nothing I don't like about Vista.
The file management and search functionality blows away XP.
It seems more stable. It's not as much of a resource hog as people (who have probably never used vista) would have you believe.
Much of the traditional Windows functionality has been changed slightly which will make the transition to Vista a little more difficult to some users... especially those who are afraid of change.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » May 22, 2007, 11:49 am

miir wrote:There's nothing I don't like about Vista.
The file management and search functionality blows away XP.
It seems more stable. It's not as much of a resource hog as people (who have probably never used vista) would have you believe.
Much of the traditional Windows functionality has been changed slightly which will make the transition to Vista a little more difficult to some users... especially those who are afraid of change.

It has nothing to do with "being afraid of change." There's no real benefit to the change other than change simply for the sake of change. Sorry but I grew out of the upgraditis stage. I no longer upgrade everything when a new version comes out 'just because'.

At the moment there's nothing that Vista does I can't already do with XP. As I said I have installed Vista (for evaluation purposes!) via VMware. I'll probably go with it eventually when DX10 games come out but for me there's no rush.

noel · Post by **noel** » May 22, 2007, 12:41 pm

Since you asked why I'm SO mean to you in the tech forum, my snarky comment in this thread was fueled by your below post...

Leonaerd wrote:...people who say XP > Vista are just grumpy old men that still don't have cell phones and get angry at people for having sex before marriage.

I have Vista, XP, Mac OS X, and Ubuntu installed on the various machines in my home. I've got a Blackberry 8700c with an unlimited data plan. How does your incorrect opinion about which market segment Vista appeals to make any argument as to why Vista is better than XP?

Leonaerd wrote:Vista is marvelous. It resolves issues without you having to know they existed.

WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT EVEN MEAN? Give us some examples OH WISE ONE, of what problems Vista is solving for you that you weren't aware existed.

Leonaerd wrote:It has smooth applications for almost anything you can think of. It has a great spyware tool in Windows Defender.

Which is getting horrible reviews on nearly every reputable network security site.

Leonaerd wrote:Aero is cool.

So cool in fact, that it's recommended you disable it if you spend a lot of time running your laptop on battery because of the additional processing/energy consumption. I'm running it and I like it, but it's nothing more than eye candy. It doesn't dramatically improve the task-switching functionality over XP.

Leonaerd wrote:Dreamscene is pointless but hilariously fun if you get Ultimate (assuming you won't, though).

If a looping video is hilarious fun for you, I pity you.

Leonaerd wrote:The photo / movie program is awesome.

... and yet if you want to do any serious photo or movie editing, you're going to be buying a real piece of software... Just like in XP.

Leonaerd wrote:The sidebar on the right is cool and has tons of downloadable content online.

You're really good at presenting opinions as fact, but let me give you two clues... 'cool', and 'tons' are both your opinions... If you'd like to see what 'tons' really is, check out the amount of Mac 'Widgets' that are available. Their nubmers dwarf what Windows has available... Google desktop widgets are free for XP and do exactly the same thing. The're also 'cool' and there are 'tons'.

Leonaerd wrote:The search function is way better.

Better than Google Desktop or Windows Live Search for XP? Also free, just as good. Better than Copernicus? All of which search your entire harddrive by default, not just your user directory like Vista's.

Leonaerd wrote:The help / support center is comprehensive, intuitive, frequently updated, and fast in its use.

This is different from XP, how?

I'm not even going to address your complaints because they're predictably stupid and irrelevant to the XP vs. Vista discussion.

The real improvements in Vista appear in multi-user environments for shared machines because of the virtualized user resources (which protect user A from infecting users B, C and D on the same machine), environments where you need parental controls, and some of the networking functionality. That said, I find the network configuration panels annoying to navigate compared to the ones in XP.

How about some real, concrete reasons why Vista is better than XP, not just your weak opinions?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 22, 2007, 1:10 pm

Aslanna wrote:
At the moment there's nothing that Vista does I can't already do with XP. As I said I have installed Vista (for evaluation purposes!) via VMware. I'll probably go with it eventually when DX10 games come out but for me there's no rush.

Try executing a few network wide searches with XP (unless you have Copernic which all people that aren't using Vista should!)

I don't think it's "upgraditis" as with this release, there is no flash to attract people to upgrade. As I read this thread and from personal experience with the OS, it's not an overnight thing. It takes a few days, if not a week or two to get into Vista and start seeing the little things that make it better, or more inportantly, not notice things that may have been a problem in the past.

Vista is kind of like linemen in football. They don't get noticed unless they do something bad for the most part so when Vista is doing things well it's a great thing but not something you're going to blog about.

Still, it's not critical to upgrade, I'm just tired of people saying Vista isn't better. Not true at all. Debating on the value of upgrading vs the cost is another matter and understandable...or with old systems, not a good idea.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » May 22, 2007, 1:11 pm

I was going to respond to Leonaerds vista points, but noel hit them all for me.
The sidebar, the search, the widgets, are all just 'fluff' items i don't need. I don't use desktop search, I don't want something on the screen all the time taking up resources, and I SURE AS SHIT don't want a fullscreen looping video clip as my desktop wallpaper. Aero I would use, but it's fluff too, and mostly reproducable in XP.

I have never heard a compelling reason to upgrade to Vista.

btw, DX10 and being FORCED to upgrade are not compelling reasons.

noel · Post by **noel** » May 22, 2007, 1:16 pm

Well, DX10 *is* a good reason. Of course I forgot about it because there are currently no games that support it. Company of Heroes was supposed to be supporting it early, but from what I hear, they've got other issues at the moment...

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » May 22, 2007, 3:18 pm

How about some real, concrete reasons why Vista is better than XP, not just your weak opinions?

Subjective. In saying stuff like "aero is cool," I'm forwarding my opinion. You want facts as to why Vista is better? Dx10, IE7, maybe some other pertinent examples. I didn't offer scientific fact as to why Vista is better. I offered my worthless opinion.

Which is getting horrible reviews on nearly every reputable network security site.

Boo hoo, asshole. I like it. My opinion tells me it is good. Have I logged hours of research into arbitrarily proving it's better than... other spyware blockers? No, you belligerent fuck. I haven't. I haven't even looked at these reputable security sites. Why? Because I haven't had any spyware problems.

Since you asked why I'm SO mean to you in the tech forum, my snarky comment in this thread was fueled by your below post...
Leonaerd wrote: ...people who say XP > Vista are just grumpy old men that still don't have cell phones and get angry at people for having sex before marriage.
I have Vista, XP, Mac OS X, and Ubuntu installed on the various machines in my home. I've got a Blackberry 8700c with an unlimited data plan. How does your incorrect opinion about which market segment Vista appeals to make any argument as to why Vista is better than XP?

I made a funny. I guess grumpy old men also don't understand irrelevant humor. Incorrect opinion.

It's like you look at my posts and decide how you can, from top to bottom, disseminate them entirely so that every loophole and potential error in logic is painfully exposed. What is your agenda? Take a fucking joke and respond to my proactive posts with a proactive post and we can talk about Vista without you feeling the need to one up yourself. We're getting nothing good done by yelling at each other over whether or not my opinion is a fact.

Without needing to respond to most of the quotes you've given, it's clear that the main point I'm receiving is that I didn't present facts. I tried to not offer them. In saying stuff like "dreamscene is pointless but hilarious," I thought it was clear that I was presenting my opinion. I like the stupid fluff, the unnecessary stuff, since that's what makes Vista > XP for me. Like I said earlier, XP was a smoothly running machine, and by that logic it's the pointless stuff that's largely going to differentiate one OS from the other. There's not one thing that I want to do on Vista that I can't do efficiently, as good or better than I could on XP.

WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT EVEN MEAN? Give us some examples OH WISE ONE, of what problems Vista is solving for you that you weren't aware existed.

Oh wise one? Fuck you dude. Do you talk to people like this in real life? Who the fuck are you anyway? Christ. I had out-of-date drivers for my sound card, and it recognized this and downloaded the newest ones with my permission. IS THAT ENOUGH OF A REASON, MASTER?

Aero is cool
So cool in fact, that it's recommended you disable it if you spend a lot of time running your laptop on battery because of the additional processing/energy consumption. I'm running it and I like it, but it's nothing more than eye candy. It doesn't dramatically improve the task-switching functionality over XP.

I don't run a laptop. In saying it's cool I acknowledged pretty obviously that it's nothing more than eye candy. I never claimed it dramatically improves the task-switching functionality over XP. You're refuting claims I never made.

Winnow wrote:There is no single reason to upgrade to Vista but I get the feeling most of the anti Vista people on this thread are just looking to break out in some old school dos command bragging contest to show those UI people who's boss!

Vista is solid as a rock for me (the number one thing I want in an OS), adds search features that make finding files and apps much easier (another high priority for me), has plenty of under the hood improvements that I don't know about and don't need to know or care about but know they're there.

I fiercely agree.

noel · Post by **noel** » May 22, 2007, 3:48 pm

Leonaerd wrote:IE7

Awwwww thanks for playing, but that's available on XP as well. We have some nice parting gifts for you though.

Leonaerd wrote:
noel wrote:Which is getting horrible reviews on nearly every reputable network security site.
Boo hoo, asshole. I like it. My opinion tells me it is good.

It's a SECURITY application. If it doesn't make your computer any more secure than it's just consuming resources. Are you brain dead?

Leonaerd wrote:Have I logged hours of research into arbitrarily proving it's better than... other spyware blockers? No, you belligerent fuck. I haven't. I haven't even looked at these reputable security sites. Why? Because I haven't had any spyware problems.

Then why the fuck are you running it, and how can it affect your opinion of Vista when you're running an application that you don't need? Is it the icon in the systray notification area you like? Sorry to break this to you, but myself, and others like to know what applications are running on our PCs, why they're running, and how effective they are.

Leonaerd wrote:I made a funny.

For you to make a funny, it's generally accepted that it actually has to be... y'know... FUNNY. *golfclap*

Leonaerd wrote:I had out-of-date drivers for my sound card, and it recognized this and downloaded the newest ones with my permission. IS THAT ENOUGH OF A REASON, MASTER?

How is that any different from XP? Hint: It's not.

Vista has been no more or less stable for me than XP. Then again, I never viewed XP (SP2) as unstable.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » May 22, 2007, 4:00 pm

Leonaerd wrote:I made a funny

But not at all in the way you intended. Hint - we aren't laughing with you.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » May 22, 2007, 4:06 pm

Vista has been no more or less stable for me than XP. Then again, I never viewed XP (SP2) as unstable.

It was unstable for me. Turns out different people have different issues. Turns out all of mine have been resolved with Vista.

It's a SECURITY application. If it doesn't make your computer any more secure than it's just consuming resources. Are you brain dead?

OH NO. The big program is CONSUMING RESOURCES!!!?!?!?! What am I going to do as I run 10 different programs at the same time with no lag or hitches?!?!? I SEE A STUTTER!!!! BETTER DISABLE DEFENDER!!!

How many times do I need to say "I haven't had any spyware problems" before you realize that I haven't had any spyware problems and Windows Defender is working greatly for me? Oooh, a brain dead question. Rough. My pants are soiled and my charisma demolished.

Then why the fuck are you running it, and how can it affect your opinion of Vista when you're running an application that you don't need? Is it the icon in the systray notification area you like? Sorry to break this to you, but myself, and others like to know what applications are running on our PCs, why they're running, and how effective they are.

Because my ideological computing future involves me not having to perform these steps. I lead a busy life and like to trust my software. So far, so good. I know what applications I am running, twat. You keep plugging countless hours into maintaining your PC while I, on the other hand, will plug little to no hours and have a similarly maintained PC on which I perform my desired tasks efficiently and without hassle. Oh, I see, I'm not capable of efficiently performing hassle-free tasks unless I rigorously research other peoples' experience with the software. This isn't like shopping for apples and picking out the ones with bruises. Software is meant to be seamless and trustworthy, so I allow space for it to be both. XP was great so I trust Vista to be better. Again... so far, so good. Accuse me of being ignorant again. I'll retort by going about doing exactly what I intend to do on my computer.

How is that any different from XP? Hint: It's not.

XP never did that for me. Turns out my computer survived with the old drivers anyway. Such a small issue that I can't believe how much time you've invested into making it something bigger.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » May 22, 2007, 4:08 pm

Aabidano wrote:
Leonaerd wrote:I made a funny
But not at all in the way you intended. Hint - we aren't laughing with you.

Oh no, the demographic I was insulting didn't laugh. Oh no, somebody's putting way too much thought into something that was intended to come across as thoughtless. Oh no, I made an unfunny joke. *sob* *cry* Guys I'm just trying to fit in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Be more nicer to me *cry*.

noel · Post by **noel** » May 22, 2007, 4:16 pm

I've figured it out. I know what your problem is, and really there's nothing you can do about it. You have absolutely no perspective.

Never in my life have I spent hours maintaining any of my PCs (Linux boxes not included in that statement). I have a nice selection of resources in the form of RSS feeds, books, mentors, and experience that I refer to regularly. As a network engineer, I'm pretty much required to have an awareness of modern security applications, techniques and network appliances in addition to operating systems and common network aware applications. With over 13 years of experience in the IT/Network management profession, I still have a lot to learn, but I work hard to stay up on ANY new technologies or applications. If you choose to be a dinosaur in this industry, you won't last long at all.

On the issue at hand, I have perspective because I'm actually *running* four different operating systems on 4 different PCs, desktops, notebooks etc. I also support tablet PCs. I didn't just install Vista and decide I liked it. I installed Vista, decided I liked it, and read everything I could find about it in an effort to better understand the advantages and disadvantages of the OS. The bottom line is that I like it, but it's no big improvement over XP in ways that matter. At present, I'd rank the desktop OSes in this way:

1. Mac OS X
2. Vista/XP SP2 (tie)
4. Linux (distant fourth)

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » May 22, 2007, 4:16 pm

For what it's worth I never had a stability issue with XP. If people are it's more than likely related to overclocking, device conflicts, questionable (low-end) hardware, or flaky drivers. Or a combination of the above.

I regularly have my system running for weeks with no downtime. The main reason I even reboot with XP is when stupid Windows Update wont stop popping up that damn box every 15 minutes until I do.

(And there's probably a way to disable it. I haven't really bothered to look)

noel · Post by **noel** » May 22, 2007, 4:22 pm

I totally agree.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » May 22, 2007, 4:27 pm

On the issue at hand, I have perspective because I'm actually *running* four different operating systems on 4 different PCs, desktops, notebooks etc. I also support tablet PCs. I didn't just install Vista and decide I liked it. I installed Vista, decided I liked it, and read everything I could find about it in an effort to better understand the advantages and disadvantages of the OS. The bottom line is that I like it, but it's no big improvement over XP in ways that matter. At present, I'd rank the desktop OSes in this way:

And what you seem to lose perspective of while perched 2 miles above the forest is that I'm a consumer, not a 13 year network engineer veteran. Maybe in a few years when I have my degree we can argue about the nitty gritty bullshit that goes along with working in the field, but for now you'd be better off understanding that not having perspective is exactly the path I'm glad to be on. Come on, I'm 20 years old and I eat raman noodles for dinner. Did you think I should have the money to purchase the perspective undoubtedly gained from having multiple machines with different OSs and all that jazz? Give me a few years.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » May 22, 2007, 4:33 pm

After testing Vista here at work we quickly decided it was a bad idea and moved away from it. Had way too many issues with programs not running correctly and even had issues with Dell laptops and the docking stations. Sucked ass to say the least.

There truly is no benefit to Vista that justifies the expense in both time and money to perform the upgrade.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » May 22, 2007, 4:42 pm

Leonaerd wrote:
On the issue at hand, I have perspective because I'm actually *running* four different operating systems on 4 different PCs, desktops, notebooks etc. I also support tablet PCs. I didn't just install Vista and decide I liked it. I installed Vista, decided I liked it, and read everything I could find about it in an effort to better understand the advantages and disadvantages of the OS. The bottom line is that I like it, but it's no big improvement over XP in ways that matter. At present, I'd rank the desktop OSes in this way:

And what you seem to lose perspective of while perched 2 miles above the forest is that I'm a consumer, not a 13 year network engineer veteran. Maybe in a few years when I have my degree we can argue about the nitty gritty bullshit that goes along with working in the field, but for now you'd be better off understanding that not having perspective is exactly the path I'm glad to be on. Come on, I'm 20 years old and I eat raman noodles for dinner. Did you think I should have the money to purchase the perspective undoubtedly gained from having multiple machines with different OSs and all that jazz? Give me a few years.

What you need to understand is that noall actually is a grumpy old prick and resorts to berating and belittling people immediately when they make any false statement about technology.

But it's the flamevault, thats what it's all about.

fucking yawn.

noel · Post by **noel** » May 22, 2007, 5:07 pm

Leonaerd wrote:And what you seem to lose perspective of while perched 2 miles above the forest is that I'm a consumer, not a 13 year network engineer veteran. Maybe in a few years when I have my degree we can argue about the nitty gritty bullshit that goes along with working in the field, but for now you'd be better off understanding that not having perspective is exactly the path I'm glad to be on. Come on, I'm 20 years old and I eat raman noodles for dinner. Did you think I should have the money to purchase the perspective undoubtedly gained from having multiple machines with different OSs and all that jazz? Give me a few years.

You might have noticed a trend in the last few years. With the proliferation of high speed Internet access, increasingly the endpoints on a network are *gasp* consumers.

It's very exciting how you change your identity post to post, I never know who I'll get to converse with on a daily basis. Only a few threads ago you were:

Leonaerd wrote:I'm a third-year computer engineering major. I build and fix computers in my spare time. I even run a little business throughout my dorm.

Now that I know you're just a consumer, I'll go a lot easier on you, and not expect you to be knowledgeable on any of the topics you post on in this forum.

I will give you a break. When you stop making blanket statements, insulting large groups of people as cavemen when they have an opinion differing from yours.

Here's a free tip: Having your degree or not will not affect your ability to participate in a conversation with informative and well-reasoned arguments. Your own ability to research, take initiative, and prepare will. Despite what you may have heard, it's not like a light-switch.

I'm sorry you're eating Ramen for dinner. I used to eat vegetable rigatoni with season-salt and mayonnaise when I was your age. Back then I actually thought the rigatoni was better for me because it was vegetable.

I don't dislike you, at all, I just disagree with you strongly and think your arguments are weak. Unlike that tool Funkmasterr who hasn't had an original or intelligent thought in his entire life. I've never, ever seen you make the kind of idiotic statements he makes in virtually every post.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » May 22, 2007, 5:24 pm

t's very exciting how you change your identity post to post, I never know who I'll get to converse with on a daily basis. Only a few threads ago you were:

The only reason you don't know who you'll get to converse with is because you like to twist situations around in an attempt to make me look stupid. I said I'm a consumer knowing full well that I had told you I'm a computer engineering major. That's why in my above post I didn't specify my degree when saying "in a few years when I have my degree...," because I figured you'd put one and one together.

Now that I know you're just a consumer, I'll go a lot easier on you, and not expect you to be knowledgeable on any of the topics you post on in this forum.

So I can't be in college and be a consumer. Right. Speaking of blanket statements...........

I gave you the benefit of the doubt in assuming you can understand my personal perspective by not boring you with the details, but I guess I'll spell it out. I'm a third year computer engineering major PLUS consumer. I have knowledge on many computer subjects, though not as many as great big industry veterans like yourself. My current classes include studying transistors and thermo(thermal?)dynamics and finishing a mock motherboard design. I love building computers and saving money doing so. I don't have mentors and RSS feeds and experience, nor do I have a 13 inch cock.

I will give you a break. When you stop making blanket statements, insulting large groups of people as cavemen when they have an opinion differing from yours.

Holy shit, take a joke or forget about it already.

Here's a free tip: Having your degree or not will not affect your ability to participate in a conversation with informative and well-reasoned arguments. Your own ability to research, take initiative, and prepare will. Despite what you may have heard, it's not like a light-switch.

Yeah, because I'm so fucking retarded that I think knowledge is essentially a light switch. I wasn't prepared to make well researched and reasoned arguments because all I was doing was saying that I LIKE VISTA AND AERO IS COOL. Jesus H I can't imagine the pent up rage people to whom you talk to like this in real life must have towards you.

Further disseminate everything I say. I guarantee you will find something else I did not say exactly as I should have. Heck, go through all 1000+ of my posts and find all the petty contradictions and errors in logic. I bet there are a lot! Meanwhile, I will not do the same for you. I know that you're too perfect to make mistakes so why waste my time?

noel · Post by **noel** » May 22, 2007, 5:35 pm

Hey jackass... you threw the first stone on this thread. Real sorry I caught it and threw back 100 and that because of your education/finances/life situation/whatever, you're feeling victimized, but go cry for someone who cares.