11 Things You can do on Linux that you can't on Windows

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 7, 2007, 3:40 am

Some are really lame and there's nothing overly compelling but 4 and 8 are good points.

Things I can do in Linux that I can't do on Windows. ( 1001 views )

1. Update every single piece of software on my system with a single action. This is one of the main reasons I run Linux. Sure, Windows has Windows Update, but that only updates the operating system, Office, and a few other things. For every Linux distribution I've used (Gentoo, Red Hat, Suse, Ubuntu), updating is simple. When you update, you have every application, every library, every script - every single piece of software upgraded automatically for you. And on most of them, they will check for updates automatically and notify you. This is great for security, fixing bugs quickly, and getting the latest in features.

2. Update nearly everything on my computer without a reboot. On Linux, there is only one thing that requires a reboot after updates. The kernel. And even then you can continue to run on the previous kernel. You just need to reboot to get the benefit of using the new kernel (say, if it has a bug fix or a new feature). In Windows, many of the updates to even non-critical software require reboots.

3. Keep my system secure without software that consumes my system resources, requires my time, and frequently nags me. Basic requirement for a secure Windows box include:
1. Running antivirus protection. AV software consumes resources and requires routine scans.
2. A software firewall like ZoneAlarm or the one built into Vista that constantly asks you if you want to allow software to contact the Internet. More time on your part.
3. Running Adblock Adaware and/or Spybot Search & Destroy on a routine basis, consuming your time, and requiring your manual intervention. People often forget or don't "get around to it".
4. Never trusting software. You have to go through life assuming every bit of software and every website on the Internet is going to screw you over. What a sorry state of affairs that is.

All of this requires your attention, slows your computer, and ruins the open experience of the Internet. None of this is necessary in Linux. You get your software through your distribution. As long as you can trust your distribution, you can trust the software available. Having a firewall is a good thing even in Linux, but most of us have a firewall built into our Cable and DSL modems, or our wi-fi router. A software firewall in windows is as much used to keep malware from calling out as it is to keep outside intrusions from coming in, and you don't have the same concerns in Linux (since, as I said, you can trust your software).

4. Run an entire operating system for free without pirating software, and without breaking the law. Most Window's users seem to accept that breaking the law is okay, because it is pretty much required. Either you break the law, or spend countless thousands of dollars on the software you need. You may not think it is a big deal, but if you own a home like I do, you are putting it at risk. While unlikely, the potential is there for software companies to come after you just like the RIAA has come after countless people. With Linux, this isn't necessary. You can run the software you need without paying for it, and without breaking the law. I know I sleep better at night.

5. Take my settings with me where ever I go. In Linux, all your personal settings are stored in your Home folder, most in folders that begin with a period (like .gaim). So, I can copy all these settings from one computer to another. I can put these settings on a USB drive. When I switched from Gentoo to Ubuntu, I kept all my settings. On Windows, some settings are under your home folder and some are in the registry. So your settings are not portable.

6. Run Internet Explorer 5.0, 5.5, 6.0, and 7.0 on the same desktop. I have all installed thanks to the wonderful IEs4Linux project. I can even run them side-by-side if I want. For a web developer, that's huge. Testing browser compatibility to that level on Windows requires multiple machines or something like VMWare. Further, when I run IE under Linux, I don't have to worry about any malware or virus getting onto my system.

7. Understand everything that is going on in my computer. Using Windows is like working with a black box. You can see the outside, but you have no idea what is going on inside. If you hit snags, your only option is to hope Microsoft fixes it. Or, perhaps you can submit a bug report to Microsoft, spending your time improving software that a company makes billions from. Under Linux, you can look at the system logs, where you can see most issues. You can search for the log messages on Google, and can usually track the cause and often find a fix. If not, I can even go look at the source code to find the offending problem. Granted, most people aren't capable or don't have the time to look at the source code. But the fact that tens-of-thousands of geeks do is often very, very helpful. And if you do spend the time filling out a bug report, you are helping other people just like yourself, not contributing your time to a rich software company.

8. Customize every aspect of my desktop. In Windows, you are more or less stuck with what you are given. Sure, you can install buggy skinning engines, or you can pay Microsoft extra for the ability to put skins on your desktop. But even these aren't very adaptive. It's just a new coat of paint on the same desktop. Under Linux, I can choose the window manager, the desktop environment, the theme, the GTK engine, the icon theme, the special effects (see Beryl or Compiz), the filesystem browser, and so on. Nearly every aspect of the system has competitive options. If you look around the internet at screenshots of various Linux desktops, you rarely see two that look the same.

9. Benefit from competition between projects for each system on my computer. As I mention in point 8, there are options for every aspect of the Linux desktop. Not only is it fun to try the various options, but it leads to better software as multiple projects compete against each other to be the best. Can you imagine competing printing backends, competing desktop environments, or competing USB mounting systems on Windows? I've been a Linux user for 3 years now, and I've seen remarkable changes in systems used on the Linux desktop, from critical systems (XFree86 switched to X.Org, auto-mounting systems) to non-critical (my CD-Rom eject button works!).

10. Run thousands of great pieces of software that only run on Linux. Just like Windows, Linux has software that doesn't run on Windows. Great pieces of software like Amarok, Bluefish, Neverball, Gnumeric, K3B, Beryl, gdesklets, and MythTV. I know this is a chicken-and-egg point, where Windows has the exact same situation. Too often I hear "I can't switch to Linux because it doesn't run [insert Windows software]". My reason for pointing it out is just to make it clear that this is a two-way street.

11. Learn about, support, and appreciate the value of free software. I believe free software is important to us all. Even if you use non-free software, the free software movement ensures checks and balances on non-free software by offering an alternative. By running a free operating system and becoming involved in the community, I've contributed to free software, even if only in a small way.

noel · Post by **noel** » May 7, 2007, 9:51 am

Mac OSX has all the benefits of running Linux with none of the drawbacks. It's based on BSD Unix, but I can still run all of my necessary work applications and it's user friendly enough that I could give it to my mother to run.

miir · Post by **miir** » May 7, 2007, 10:57 am

I very much like linux/unix.
I actually learned unix before I learned DOS.
I also really like OSX.

But until they start making most/all games with native unix support, I have no personal use for it. Gaming is a large part of my personal computer usage.
Windows does everything I need it to do with little-to-no fuss.

noel · Post by **noel** » May 7, 2007, 11:10 am

I fully agree.

I only really use my Mac for business use. It does play WoW just as good as a PC, so I'll use it on business trips when I'm stuck in a hotel, but other than that, the game landscape is horrible. It's worse on Linux.

Obviously you can use WINE or whatever to play PC games on Linux, but the performance hit and the hassle isn't worth it.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 7, 2007, 11:20 am

miir wrote:I very much like linux/unix.
I actually learned unix before I learned DOS.
I also really like OSX.

But until they start making most/all games with native unix support, I have no personal use for it. Gaming is a large part of my personal computer usage.
Windows does everything I need it to do with little-to-no fuss.

Have you seen this service? (Noel mentioned its predecessor)

http://www.transgaming.com/index.php?mo ... =2&meid=-1

It looks like they support some of the more popular windows games in linux. I suppose it's a good service if you absolutely hate windows.

Here's the games list:

http://cedega.com/gamesdb/

EQ II and WoW, Vanguard etc are on the list.

Post by **Sylvus** » May 7, 2007, 12:31 pm

I've used Linux in a number of environments and distros, and I've used Windows pretty extensively since 3.1. That list is mostly full of shit, decidedly anti-Windows and pretty much just the proselytizing of a Linux fanboi. Keep in mind that I'm much more proficient with Windows than I am with Linux, though I do much of the Linux admin for a production web application that does millions of dollars in revenue each year. Just trying to give my qualification as not being completely full of shit.

1. Simply not true, unless there's something I'm missing. I've used (off the top of my head) up2date, yum and CPAN to update different portions of different Linux distros and to pretend that it's just "click here" (or a similar, singular action) and everything is updated is not being honest. I can't tell you how many times something hasn't been found on the system or the configuration wasn't right and I've had to spend a good deal of time re-running make files or recompiling something or searching through log files and install messages trying to isolate what went wrong. While that may occur less often in a Linux environment than one has to do piecemeal updates of different apps in Windows, it's a more difficult process, particularly for the average user.

2. True, Linux requires far fewer reboots than Windows. If you're looking at this as "which personal OS to use" and not from a server admin standpoint, I think it's kind of a moot point. It's not like you have to reboot your windows pc every 5 minutes, I sometimes go weeks without rebooting and it's not a big deal when I have to do it, not on my personal machines.

3. I'm not even sure how to refute that point. "you can trust your software"? Really? He should be touting the superiority of the linux firewall(s) over anything that windows has rather than saying it's completely unnecessary. I mostly use linux in a server capacity, so maybe my thinking is skewed, but I always install clam on every server I set up.

4. The first sentence is the truth, if you focus on the word "free". It's entirely possible to run a windows system without pirating software and without breaking the law. The rest of this point is fearmongering. Either you're going to spend thousands of dollars to run Windows or you're putting your home at risk?

5. I've never had any problem migrating settings between windows machines. Sure, it may not be a matter of copying one directory onto a usb drive, but again I feel like there's a little more complexity involved in linux than he's letting on, and Windows isn't as cumbersome as he's making it out to be.

6. Fair enough. While I'm a web developer, our analysts test browser compatibility (and our test lab has multiple machines set up with all the different browser versions), and I'm not particularly concerned with running IE 5.0. If I were, I'm not sure if that would be a compelling reason to switch to linux or not.

7. I'm kind of awed that this guy understands everything that is going on in his computer. I don't, and I'm pretty sure that 99.9% of the world doesn't either, and couldn't with any operating system. You can search for Windows errors on google as well, and with a user base that is quite a bit higher than that of linux, I'd put your odds of finding a solution to a Windows problem right up there with solving a linux problem.

8. Pretty spot on. Not at all high on my list of concerns, but factually true.

9. I guess I never considered that Windows needed competing USB mounting systems.

10. I've never heard of most of those programs, they're probably pretty great. I like to play video games, and you can play a lot more of those on your Windows machine than on linux. Granted, every day you can play more of them on your linux machine.

11. Open source and GNU are great, he's right. So are products you have to pay for. Particularly since I'm a programmer and have no desire to become a ditch digger.

I'm mostly just playing devil's advocate, I'm pretty agnostic when it comes to OS debates. I think they both have advantages, and I don't like to see either side unjustly stereotyped.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 7, 2007, 12:41 pm

Data from recent openSuse survey on who uses Linux:

Almost 80% of the users are 25+ years old, 98% are males

Wtf? Only 2% of the users are female? That's not going to get it done! Linux is still living in the 80's when the statistics for PC users in general were like that.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » May 7, 2007, 1:13 pm

This list is retarded, for all of the reasons Sylvus mentioned, and more. It's inane and naive fanboi BS for the most part.

Of the apps mentioned in point 10, only Amarok (mp3 library-based player with some Media-Monkey-like functionality), Bluefish (IDE for html & scripts) and MythTV (PVR & media tools - something that I would have expected to really spark Winnow's interest) are things that would be of interest to most people. Maybe K3B (CD/DVD authoring application for KDE), but there are others that are better, IMO.

noel · Post by **noel** » May 7, 2007, 1:34 pm

Linux is a great and fantastic operating system for some very specific purposes that has the capability to be something more.

Linux is a horrible OS for lack of application support, lack of driver support, lack of game support, and general usability. If you're into spending lots of time tinkering with your OS, there's nothing better than Linux. If however, you need something you can give the 'average user' it sure as hell isn't Linux.

Until the majority of the Linux 'community' stops being a bunch of elitist fucktards who are more concerned with expounding all the ways Windows is bad instead of focusing on making Linux good (for everyone, not just them), it will NEVER be mainstream and will never be a useful OS for everyone like windows *can* be.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » May 7, 2007, 1:38 pm

12. Run 3D applications while using an Nvidia card.

(Vista drivers from Nvidia don't work yet. Some $400 card I payed for.)

miir · Post by **miir** » May 7, 2007, 1:40 pm

Winnow wrote:Have you seen this service? (Noel mentioned its predecessor)

http://www.transgaming.com/index.php?mo ... =2&meid=-1

It looks like they support some of the more popular windows games in linux. I suppose it's a good service if you absolutely hate windows.

Here's the games list:

http://cedega.com/gamesdb/

EQ II and WoW, Vanguard etc are on the list.

I like being able to install and play PC games out of the box with little-to-no fuss.

Never said that you can't play PC games on a unix box.
It's the 'fuss factor' that keeps me from using it for personal purposes.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 7, 2007, 1:48 pm

Here's someone's top ten apps for Linux:

Top 10 Killer Apps For Linux

Posted on December 2nd, 2006.

Nobody wants to use an operating system. They just want it be able to run the software they need. Therefore, its very important for an OS to have killer apps. Here’s a list of software that make Linux worth using.

1. Apache

Needs no introduction. The legendary web server app that probably almost every website runs on. If you even try to compare this with Microsoft’s IIS, I’m just going to burst out laughing my ass off.

2. Synaptic/Adept/YUM

How do 90% of computer users (the current windows + mac market share) even use their computers without a package manager ? Before switching to Linux, I was warned that installing software was going to be very very difficult and that alone would make me want to crawl back to my hda1 partition. The guy who said that has obviously never hurd (pun intended) of package managers.

3. Konqueror

Window File Managers simply cannot get better than this. Konqueror’s competitors - Finder and Explorer are nowhere near as good as it is. I would have try to describe the features, but there are just too many to write about. Check the wikipedia article for those details.

4. Beryl/Compiz

After 2 months of Beryl on my Ubuntu box, I can’t dream of a world without wobbly windows. Not to mention the Blur, Water, Desktop Cube, Animations, Trailfocus, Expose-like features, and Fading Windows. Makes me feel sorry for Windows users who have to stare at Luna everyday.

5. AmaroK

Brilliant music player that kicks iTunes proverbial bckside in every respect. Features include Podcasts, Internet Radio, Lyrics, Wikipedia information about the currently artist, and probably a zillion more that i haven’t discovered yet. Highly extensible with scripts and themes. The recent release also features a music store for digital music downloads (with free previews).

6. K3b

Windows users would say Nero is way better than K3b in terms of features and I would be forced to agree. But why the hell does a person who just wants to burn some discs also need a media player, an always-on media cataloging software, audio editor and other useless crap bundled ? K3b does what its supposed to do from a good interface and does it perfectly.

7. Apollon (frontend for giFT)

This program that surprisingly few people use is the best P2P software out there without doubt. I’ll just say this - it supports the FastTrack, Gnutella, Ares and OpenFT networks and has no added spyware. Now, if you need more convincing than that, you deserve to have your system “Kazaa-d”.

8. MPlayer + MEncoder

MPlayer is that media player that you’ve always wanted - the one that can play absolutely anything and doesn’t cost an arm, a leg and a couple of toes. And if you’re part of “the scene” there’s no better software than MEncoder to to rip those DVDs, and convert them to AVIs. And if you’re not hardcore geek enough to handle the command-line interface there are about a couple of thousand GUIs for these two programs floating around the net.

9. Deskbar

The Deskbar applet for the Gnome Panel searches liles and folders, Wikipedia, browser bookmarks and history, dictionary, Del.icio.us, address book contacts, Gmail and opens programs, web pages and even triples as a calculator. If you find another Search+Launcher+Calculator program, tell me.

10. Screem HTML/XML Editor

Yes I’ve used Dreamweaver and its very easy to use and all but if you want to really become a good web designer, you need to get rid of the WYSISWYG and actually look at the code that you put in. With Screem, you can use the markup you want rather than what the application thinks you need.

There are a lot of other programs for Linux that are really great (Firefox, OpenOffice.org, VLC Player) but they have Windows versions too and don’t qualify as killer apps for Linux.

1. Apache

Also runs on windows!

2. Synaptic/Adept/YUM

How do 90% of computer users (the current windows + mac market share) even use their computers without a package manager?

Please. What a joke.

3. Konqueror

Directory Opus owns you and is far more customizable.

4. Beryl/Compiz

Good stuff.

5. AmaroK

This one looks like it would be ok as an MP3 player/manager. I'll be checking it out. Hopefully it manages podcasts well.

6. K3b

Nero is better and if you don't like Nero, pick from dozens of other options.

7. Apollon (frontend for giFT)

Use newgroups! People still use p2p besides torrents?

8. MPlayer + MEncoder

Doesn't hold a candle to the blowtorch that is Zoom Player if you're into customization and FFDshow, (stuff that actually makes the picture better) etc.

9. Deskbar

Umpteen versions of this type of thing for windows if you like deskbars.

10. Screem HTML/XML Editor

Dreamweaver.

-----

Again, as I use it more, my opinion may change, but that list does nothing for a windows user's initial reaction and the list of software reasons to use Windows instead would be a mile long.

I'm looking forward to installing Vista as a virtual machine within linux and also plan to install OS X in Windows or Linux to check it out.

If Amarok turns out to be cool, I'll use it in a virtual machine within Windows. MythTV looks nice but I'm content with my Satellite/Cable DVRs. Along those lines, XBMC for the Xbox is the best Media Center App imo and best homebrew app ever.

miir wrote: I like being able to install and play PC games out of the box with little-to-no fuss.

That's what linux needs to work on. One click installs. It's so obvious. There must be some sort of pride thing going on with linux geeks that they won't fix this monster problem for ease of use.

noel · Post by **noel** » May 7, 2007, 1:52 pm

Leonaerd wrote:12. Run 3D applications while using an Nvidia card.

(Vista drivers from Nvidia don't work yet. Some $400 card I payed for.)

That's just fucking wrong. You have a problem with ONE application.

I've been playing hundreds of 3D apps on Vista since BETA. Shut the fuck up and go cry in your own thread.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » May 7, 2007, 2:38 pm

noel wrote:Linux is a great and fantastic operating system for some very specific purposes that has the capability to be something more.

Linux is a horrible OS for lack of application support, lack of driver support, lack of game support, and general usability. If you're into spending lots of time tinkering with your OS, there's nothing better than Linux. If however, you need something you can give the 'average user' it sure as hell isn't Linux.

Until the majority of the Linux 'community' stops being a bunch of elitist fucktards who are more concerned with expounding all the ways Windows is bad instead of focusing on making Linux good (for everyone, not just them), it will NEVER be mainstream and will never be a useful OS for everyone like windows *can* be.

I agree wholeheartedly, except that I think the obnoxious, elitist fucks are a vocal minority that paints much of the community in a bad light. Overall, I think that most people who are enthusiastic about Linux tend to be much more pragmatic, and understand the shortcomings of the OS on the desktop. Conversely, virtually all of the complaints that I see directed at Linux on the desktop result from unrealistic expectations of what Linux is, it's maturity in that specific arena and what it can do. Linux's detractors tend to talk out of their asses as much as the fanbois do. There's tremendous potential for Linux, and for people like me that come from a Unix background to begin with, there's a certain amount of excitement, fondness and optimism for the OS.

noel · Post by **noel** » May 7, 2007, 4:27 pm

Ubuntu's user/support community/forums are the best thing that ever happened to Linux for that exact reason. They get it, and they're having the most positive impact I've seen.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » May 7, 2007, 4:43 pm

noel wrote:
Leonaerd wrote:12. Run 3D applications while using an Nvidia card.

(Vista drivers from Nvidia don't work yet. Some $400 card I payed for.)
That's just fucking wrong. You have a problem with ONE application.

I've been playing hundreds of 3D apps on Vista since BETA. Shut the fuck up and go cry in your own thread.

Go read Nvidia's Nzone forums. There are hundreds of people with the same problem. It is a driver issue. It is preventing me and many others from playing any games or using 3D applications. Google my VV title and see what you find.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » May 7, 2007, 4:47 pm

If this is bothering you that much, you can always go back to using XP till Nvidia fixes the problem.

noel · Post by **noel** » May 7, 2007, 4:53 pm

I'll say it again... whine in a thread related to Vista or NVIDIA you fucking idiot. This thread isn't about your problem with Nvidia's drivers. I have over 17 games currently installed on my Vista/Nvidia box that all make extensive use of the 3D processing power of my 8800GTX and the problems you're having aren't preventing me from playing ANY of them.

You already whined like a little bitch in the other thread. Downgrade to XP or STFU.

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » May 8, 2007, 12:09 am

4. Never trusting software. You have to go through life assuming every bit of software and every website on the Internet is going to screw you over. What a sorry state of affairs that is.

All of this requires your attention, slows your computer, and ruins the open experience of the Internet. None of this is necessary in Linux. You get your software through your distribution. As long as you can trust your distribution

Doesnt that sound funny to anyone else?
Windows, dont trust anything, it will screw you over
Linux, if you trust it, it wont screw you over

Or am I reading something wrong?

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » May 8, 2007, 4:10 am

Animalor wrote:If this is bothering you that much, you can always go back to using XP till Nvidia fixes the problem.

I wish I could. Vista is currently my only available OS.

Noel, my two sentence derailment of a post was easy enough to look past without you needing to burst a vein or two. Like you would have provided a welcoming response if I had made my own topic for it, anyway. Chill.

Or just ban me.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » May 8, 2007, 9:52 am

The best thing to do is to PM him before posting so that he can clear the content. Some days he seems crankier than others. You might catch him on a good day!

noel · Post by **noel** » May 8, 2007, 9:53 am

Pot. Kettle. OMGHI!

noel · Post by **noel** » May 8, 2007, 10:27 am

Leonaerd wrote:
Animalor wrote:If this is bothering you that much, you can always go back to using XP till Nvidia fixes the problem.
I wish I could. Vista is currently my only available OS.

Noel, my two sentence derailment of a post was easy enough to look past without you needing to burst a vein or two. Like you would have provided a welcoming response if I had made my own topic for it, anyway. Chill.

Or just ban me.

If you could have been banned by me, it would have happened the day you came over here from Luclin. You don't belong here and you never fucking have.

Now you're whining because for whatever reason you're not technically experienced enough to test something before moving to it. If all you wanted was a fucking Company of Heroes machine, maybe YOU should have done some fucking research before moving to a configuration that doesn't support it. Blame Nvidia all you want. Blame MS all you want. YOU are the idiot that painted yourself into a corner.

OMFuckingGOD!!!! NEW OSes and drivers occasionally have bugs and don't work as advertised!!! SURPRISE!!!! WHO KNEW?!?!?!?!

Idiot. Quit whining and blaming other people for YOUR inadequacies.

miir · Post by **miir** » May 8, 2007, 10:48 am

Oh lighten up noel.

edit: serves me right for posting before my first coffee

noel · Post by **noel** » May 8, 2007, 11:16 am

Forgive me, but who's Al? I think Al is the other FAR less annoying poster that came over from Luclin.

Additionally, aren't I fueling discussion?

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » May 8, 2007, 12:14 pm

This guy's a zealot, as others have pointed out most of his points aren't really valid.

For most users in a business environment, either Linux or MS-whatever are just fine for day to day use. You don't have to know anything to use either one and won't be installing "stuff" as a rule regardless. From what I've read the costs pretty much balance out over time. Good *nix admins are more expensive, but you aren't paying license costs, etc.. You can also run the same HW for a lot more years, that's a huge savings right there. Linux can be more secure than Win-X, and still have all the central sign on functions and such that make windows so nice but that's a whole topic in itself.

You could almost, but not quite make the same argument for home users who aren't gamers.

For back office type applications I'd take linux any day over windows, it's far better suited to that environment. All the bloat and overhead that make windows windows aren't really needed on a server that realistically no on should ever have to see after install. Novell was much better in that respect as well.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » May 8, 2007, 1:53 pm

noel wrote:
Leonaerd wrote:
Animalor wrote:If this is bothering you that much, you can always go back to using XP till Nvidia fixes the problem.
I wish I could. Vista is currently my only available OS.

Noel, my two sentence derailment of a post was easy enough to look past without you needing to burst a vein or two. Like you would have provided a welcoming response if I had made my own topic for it, anyway. Chill. :)

Or just ban me.
If you could have been banned by me, it would have happened the day you came over here from Luclin. You don't belong here and you never fucking have.

Now you're whining because for whatever reason you're not technically experienced enough to test something before moving to it. If all you wanted was a fucking Company of Heroes machine, maybe YOU should have done some fucking research before moving to a configuration that doesn't support it. Blame Nvidia all you want. Blame MS all you want. YOU are the idiot that painted yourself into a corner.

OMFuckingGOD!!!! NEW OSes and drivers occasionally have bugs and don't work as advertised!!! SURPRISE!!!! WHO KNEW?!?!?!?!

Idiot. Quit whining and blaming other people for YOUR inadequacies.

I'm from Quellious.

I'm a third-year computer engineering major. I build and fix computers in my spare time. I even run a little business throughout my dorm.

I did do research. My research concluded that a legitimate company like Nvidia would have a fix to such an obvious problem in due time. They have not come through yet.

Sure, I could have RMA'd. But since Nvidia and Microsoft aren't to blame, surely you can't fault me for keeping my hardware? I should be able to fix a problem only capable of being solved by Nvidia, right? Nvidia and Microsoft -do- support CoH (and the other 20 games and programs that I can't use). Please tell me harder that it's my fault. It's almost working.

If you could have been banned by me, it would have happened the day you came over here from Luclin. You don't belong here and you never fucking have.

You're a riot.

noel · Post by **noel** » May 8, 2007, 5:11 pm

Leonaerd wrote:I'm from Quellious.

I see your confusion here... Unless the above says I'm from Veeshan... I DON'T FUCKING CARE.

Leonaerd wrote:I'm a third-year computer engineering major. I build and fix computers in my spare time. I even run a little business throughout my dorm.

I don't care if you're responsible for Bill Gates personal home network and handjob service. You talk out of our ass and expect to be called on it. Idiot.

You're such a fucking hardcore tech wizard and yet you don't have a copy of XP lying around to fix your MAJOR MAJOR problem

... and you make BLANKET and completely FALSE statements like:

Leonaerd wrote:12. Run 3D applications while using an Nvidia card.

(Vista drivers from Nvidia don't work yet. Some $400 card I payed for.)

If you want any credibility at all on technical matters, don't talk out of your fucking ass.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » May 8, 2007, 5:45 pm

I think it's time to move on from the whole "Not from Veeshan" thing. Does it really make a difference? I'm guessing to the vast majority here the answer is probably no.

miir · Post by **miir** » May 8, 2007, 5:52 pm

Aslanna wrote:I think it's time to move on from the whole "Not from Veeshan" thing. Does it really make a difference? I'm guessing to the vast majority here the answer is probably no.

But it matters to noel!!!!!!!

masteen · Post by **masteen** » May 8, 2007, 6:12 pm

DEM SERVER XFERS R TAKIN ARE JAHBS!!!

noel · Post by **noel** » May 8, 2007, 6:59 pm

Your right. I remember when we'd collectively stop putting down CT for being idiots and band together to flame the fuck out of idiots from other servers. But that was years ago, and hell lets water down this message board some more. After all, where we came from and what's important to us is only important when a useless fuck gets banned.

Veeshan or no, he's still an idiot for his FUD statements based on his inability to get one game working under one operating system.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » May 8, 2007, 8:07 pm

If you don't come from Veeshan you suck and that is a scientific fact unless your Winnow in which case you will always suck anyway regardless of which server you're from.

(!)

I've never used Linux, I am too inept with computers to even know where to begin. Regardless, I've always noticed 2 different types of Linux users around.

1. Some dude who just likes playing around with OS
2. Some hysterical asshole fanboy who wishes he was as cool as the dude who likes playing around with OS so plays around with OS in an attempt at cool but just comes off looking and sounding like a pretentious twat.

Windows is nice and shiny, so for me it does the trick. Don't really see the point in using something that isn't compatible with half of the things I want to do on the computer (unless you are in crowd 1, in which case carry on).

But if you're in group 2, why I auttaaaa ...

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » May 9, 2007, 11:25 am

Leonaerd wrote:12. Run 3D applications while using an Nvidia card.

(Vista drivers from Nvidia don't work yet. Some $400 card I payed for.)

Statement is totally false

may be some issues with some of the newer ones, but i bet 90%+ of nVidea cards work fine on Vista

mine does.

as for this post, Winnow you are about 10 years too late to be "cool" by pumping Linux

what nobody ever talks about with Linux is the value of your personal time. Sure you can do all kinds of shit for free. And if your time is worthless, than it is still free.

My time is not worthless, in fact it is very limited, and while i have a great deal of respect for Linux (i had admin privelages on a UF mail server running Slackware with the 1.4.x kernal quite some time ago, and had a few Red Hat installs on personal machines in my day) the amount of time it would take to tweak your linux box up to even hold a candle to OSX would be insane.

if not impossible.

Rickshaw ho!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 9, 2007, 1:00 pm

Voronwë wrote:
as for this post, Winnow you are about 10 years too late to be "cool" by pumping Linux

what nobody ever talks about with Linux is the value of your personal time. Sure you can do all kinds of shit for free. And if your time is worthless, than it is still free.

My time is not worthless, in fact it is very limited, and while i have a great deal of respect for Linux (i had admin privelages on a UF mail server running Slackware with the 1.4.x kernal quite some time ago, and had a few Red Hat installs on personal machines in my day) the amount of time it would take to tweak your linux box up to even hold a candle to OSX would be insane.

How did you figure I was pimping linux with this post? Read my other thread about what a nightmare linux is, and also my response later in this thread to my original post! : )

Linux is a huge time sink compared to Windows or OSX. I can hope a few UI features that have been tacked on to linux make their way to Windows though.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » May 9, 2007, 2:22 pm

noel wrote:
Leonaerd wrote:I'm from Quellious.
I see your confusion here... Unless the above says I'm from Veeshan... I DON'T FUCKING CARE.

Right, because this board is all about EQ these days. If I weren't so lazy and had an ounce of caring, I could probably find a quote from you saying as much to Xan.

Take a chill pill and calm the fuck down. You're really not impressing anyone.

noel · Post by **noel** » May 9, 2007, 3:57 pm

Those of you complaining don't really seem to be grasping what I'm annoyed about. He's basically posting technically inaccurate information in our tech forum. So I'm calling him on it.

If I insult his mother, his server, his lifestyle or whatever, that's because it's a flame board and not the SijiHappyFunBoard.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » May 9, 2007, 4:36 pm

noel wrote:Those of you complaining don't really seem to be grasping what I'm annoyed about. He's basically posting technically inaccurate information in our tech forum. So I'm calling him on it.

If I insult his mother, his server, his lifestyle or whatever, that's because it's a flame board and not the SijiHappyFunBoard.

ZOMG IT ZWAR A JOKE!

He KNEW it was technically inaccurate, and he figured you would have known how superior his technical knowledge was in order to catch on!

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » May 9, 2007, 11:36 pm

Voronwë wrote:
Leonaerd wrote:12. Run 3D applications while using an Nvidia card.

(Vista drivers from Nvidia don't work yet. Some $400 card I payed for.)
Statement is totally false

may be some issues with some of the newer ones, but i bet 90%+ of nVidea cards work fine on Vista

mine does.

I should have made it more clear that I was explaining my (and that of a significant amount of other people) position, not everybody's.

noel · Post by **noel** » May 10, 2007, 3:00 am

See, again, it's not even *your* position. If you want to qualify it and say *your* position with a single application, then everything's all good, but blanket statements about all Nvidia cards with all 3D apps aren't going to fucking fly.

dibit_eq · Post by **dibit_eq** » May 10, 2007, 12:40 pm

Someone in this thread trained me in Sebilis and i'm pissed!

Back on topic, a lot of the criticism in this thread revolves around tbe lack of "ease of use" for linux distro's. Since we're making lists of reasons the OS is great, how about some lists regarding areas where linux can improve towards becoming a true competitor of MS.

The biggest i can come up with would be hardware support. I see most drivers made for hardware are intended for use by Windows. I guess the windows hater would say it's because windows is the most popular OS today. As such, who would waste time coding a driver for a smaller OS which would make them less money? So under that logic, drivers will be made for windows because it is the most popular and other systems will never be as popular because they lack driver support. I know it's only one among many of aspects keeping Linux from the fame its fanbois would hope for, but i'm tossing it out to start discussion.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » May 10, 2007, 2:35 pm

Linux already has pretty impressive driver support, and has for years. Of course there's room for improvement, and some specific video cards and other hardware would benefit from greater support, but overall, I don't see this as a major issue for Linux currently. There's very little hardware out there that you can't use with Linux due to driver issues. Sometimes you have to do a little work to get things running, but the driver support is there, even in the absence of a simple one-click, "just works" solution. You might mean vendor supported drivers as opposed to 3rd party (community developed) drivers which the more common route for hardware support currently. This is another matter altogether. I don't think that it makes one a Windows / Microsoft hater to say that many vendors don't bother to provide drivers and support for other OSes. It's a simple matter of economics, and there's no great incentive to do so currently.

Linux in back-office and data center applications is already at a point to compete with other server operating systems, MS included. It's not the best solution for all situations (nothing is), but it has its place. I know of a local company that that just replaced 5 racks of Sun hardware (~6 year old UltraSPARC servers ranging from e250's to e5500's) with 1 rack of Intel-based hardware for their Oracle DBMS and various Oracle business application servers (Financials, CRM, Project Management, among others), web servers and e-mail. The move has been so good for them that they're now exploring other ways to utilize Linux in their business, including shifting many of their custom in-house developed applications as well as simpler things like file and print services. This is somewhat easier for them than for some other companies because they already have a good stable of experienced Unix administrators. Who knows, maybe a year or two down the road they'll be looking at it as a desktop OS replacement, but certainly not yet.

On the desktop it's not there yet. It's already at the point where it could easily serve in many business environments where employees need only to access a web-based, Java or console-based front end for their business applications or do some light word processing, etc. It needs more much more refinement, however, before it ever has a chance to chip into the desktop market on a wide ranging basis. If Linux continues to make strides in desktop usability, I think you'll see greater support from various business application vendors, but that will take some time. It will take even longer, however, before Linux ever has a chance to reach critical mass in the home desktop market for one simple reason: Games.

The game market has a tremendous impact because it drives most of the sales for new home systems and for component upgrades, most notably video cards. I have a 7 year old PC laying around that is more than capable of handling any of the non-gaming tasks that I need or want to do, but it's collecting dust because it can't play any reasonably modern games worth a shit. Currently, the Linux market just doesn't exist in a meaningful way, and so no game studio or hardware manufacturer is going to be terribly interested in spending their resources to support products that only a few people, relatively speaking, are interested in. This is the same reason that there are so few Mac games available. As Linux (or Macs for that matter, though iLife products give it an edge) continue to make gains in the desktop arena, this may change, but as things stand the consumer desktop is a tremendous challenge for Linux. The corporate or non-gaming desktop is a much more attainable goal, and is generally where most of the effort is being made currently.