The Two Towers

Neost · Post by **Neost** » December 18, 2002, 6:51 am

Gollum was perfect! The battle for his soul between good and evil was depicted extremely well.

The Ents were cool, but their "gathering" was cut a bit short.

Most of the fight scenes were classic, and there was quite a bit of humor. It really looked like the actors were more comfortable with their characters.

The opening scene was incredible in my opinion.

While I wish they could have done this one exactly as the book, obviously that's not realistic. Same sentiment for the first one of course.

Cotto · Post by **Cotto** » December 18, 2002, 7:16 am

hush hush hush!!

12 hours 12 hours 12hours!!
No spoilers la la la la la la la!

seiffil · Post by **seiffil** » December 18, 2002, 7:33 am

Two Towers was damn good, for being a movie, book still a lot better. I thought the movie however, followed the book quite well just the same. I honestly didn't find much at all not to like, other then the fact I have to wait a year till the next one of the trilogy comes out.

Sargeras · Post by **Sargeras** » December 18, 2002, 8:31 am

Dorf tossing, its all in the wrist.

Brittney · Post by **Brittney** » December 18, 2002, 8:54 am

The movie was the SHIT... nuff said. Sargeras was grabbin my arm and squeezing my hand every time something exciting happened... I felt violated =\

noel · Post by **noel** » December 18, 2002, 9:23 am

For the purists:
They deviate. It's a movie. Deal.

For the rest of you:.
Breathtaking. Supremely well done. This movie is not to be missed. If you thought The Fellowship of the Ring was good/exciting/etc., prepare to have your mind blown.

For Lucasfilm: You're special effects look like cartoony shit compared to what the folks at WETA accomplished. The bar has been raised.

Though the story deviates from the book, this is definitely the best movie of the year 2002. Peter Jackson is a genius, the acting was superb, the cinematography was phenomenal, the special effects were the best I've ever seen, and the battle scenes...

Everyone should go out and see this movie right away.

Shanks · Post by **Shanks** » December 18, 2002, 9:25 am

this movie is weiweiwei

Drewno · Post by **Drewno** » December 18, 2002, 9:38 am

best movie of the year 2000.

Aranuil, where the hell do you live?!

noel · Post by **noel** » December 18, 2002, 9:41 am

Heh, dude it's 5AM =(

kurzweil · Post by **kurzweil** » December 18, 2002, 9:43 am

movie rocks.

gotta see it again from somewhere other than row 3 of a sellout midnight showing, tho.

wargs ahoy!

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » December 18, 2002, 10:41 am

I was impressed. I thought it was easily equal to the first movie in terms of enjoyment.

I can't wait to see what sort of cuts make it to the DVD release. As it currently stands, it weighs in at a hefty 3hrs. 10 minutes.

The trailers were kick-ass too! I saw a nice 2-3 minute Terminator 3 add follwed by a fantastic new X-Men 2 trailer. Also, there was a Dumb and Dumber(er) trailer with no footage. The summer looks promising.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » December 18, 2002, 11:37 am

I CAN NOT READ THIS THREAD!

Bakara · Post by **Bakara** » December 18, 2002, 11:42 am

Lalanae and I are in LOVE WITH THIS MOVIE! I can imagine seeing this movie 2 or 3 more times in the next few weeks. It was wonderful, it's like having a childhood fantasy played out to you with perfect suspension of belief.

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » December 18, 2002, 11:55 am

Also loved it. I am proud enough with my loserness that I ventured to the movie alone at midnight. Holy Hot Damn was it worth it!

I still enjoyed the first one more, but this is so freaken close to it in greatness, that there really is no way to say one is truly better than the other. I'm sure the finale will be just as grand.

My 2cents. And yes, I'm going to see it many more times too...Just wont be the same once it is on a puny TV screen.

I'd also have to agree on WETA's job on the special effects. What an outstanding job indeed. Once again, of course the outfits and props were topical, and it really had the "feel" of the book's settings. Elvish armor was so magnificent, even on the lowliest of "extras" that die first.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » December 18, 2002, 12:28 pm

Ya know most of the purists and rabid Tolkien Fans (yes I have read this at least once a year for the last 27 years) have not considered the changes as horrid...I think we all understood that attempting to shoot the novels as written would result in disaster...what works in the mind does not always translate to film...The rabid fans are most concerned with the spirit of the novels...PJ, Fran Walsh and damn I have forgotten her name Philipa something have done an amazing job of turning the screenplay into a viable adaptation which keeps true to the spirit of the novels...

Aranuil wrote:For Lucasfilm: You're special effects look like cartoony shit compared to what the folks at WETA accomplished. The bar has been raised.

Kind of amazing considering WETA's entire CGI group was put together from students at the beginning of the LOTR project...

Amazing too is the fact that WETA did pretty much all of the physical work as well...modeling, costume, set design and development, armoury...I think the fact that this was all led by one discrete group is what made for such a coherent look and feel...One team with a vision...

Welp going to grab a quick shower then its off to the Plains of Rohan for me...first showing here is noon today and I am there...

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » December 18, 2002, 12:46 pm

All I could think, the entire movie, was

wow

The last movie has some flaws (I'm a tad critical) but this one...well if it had any flaws, I was too distracted to notice.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » December 18, 2002, 1:02 pm

When Peter Jackson and Co. were shopping around for effect houses, Lucas Arts was amoung the contestants. I vividly remeber an interview with George Lucas shortly after they were turned down and Jackson announced using several different studios instead.

When asked about losing the bid, George Lucas acted more than a little peeved. He basically said something like "I've seen what they are proposing to do with LotR and I don't think anyone else will be able to approach our quality. But, they made their decision, so good luck trying to get the results you're looking for."

Anyway, I thought it was a rather snide remark to make and it was obvious George felt somehow slighted by being passed up for a bunch of no names. This was during an interview leading up to the release of Episode I if I remeber correctly.

Shaion · Post by **Shaion** » December 18, 2002, 1:41 pm

Haha shanks, wiewiewiewe

Iamane · Post by **Iamane** » December 18, 2002, 2:06 pm

LARST POWER!!!!!

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » December 18, 2002, 7:18 pm

I for one am glad Lucas doesn't have his hands in these movies. Compare Gollum to Jar Jar Bonks and I think you'll agree.

noel · Post by **noel** » December 18, 2002, 7:21 pm

Aslanna wrote:I for one am glad Lucas doesn't have his hands in these movies. Compare Gollum to Jar Jar Bonks and I think you'll agree.

Hell, you can even compare him to Yoda and there's still no contest. Gollum is the best completely animated character ever seen in a movie.

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » December 18, 2002, 8:04 pm

Yes, simply put, amazing.

The fact that they ran the T3 trailer at the start only made it better. =p

Fash · Post by **Fash** » December 18, 2002, 9:07 pm

That was the most amazing movie I've ever seen.

p.s. sorry about the cell phone ringing... I swear that was the first time, and it'll never happen again.

Acies · Post by **Acies** » December 18, 2002, 9:52 pm

CAUTION, MAY CONTAIN SPOLIERS

Things I hated about this movie: Well, I bought 15 tickets for some of my closest friends and we crowded into 13 seats, was kinda uncomfortable.

Thing I truely cherished about this movie: Gollums interal struggle was brought to life I think better than I could have imagined. It was spectacular.
Legolas's dexterity, eye poppingly well done. I am sure you remember the horse scene which I am speaking of.
Gimely, the most hysterical mo fo in the movie.
"Just don't tell the elf" was good. Better was when they were all on the battlements surveying the Orc horde and the camera was panning across the defenders face. You see this blank spot, then you hear "You could've picked a better spot", I thinki had a mild heart attack then.
Will be attending more showings multipule times before december is done, as I want to take everything in.

Drustwyn · Post by **Drustwyn** » December 19, 2002, 1:45 am

<---- Gollum

Gollum > me

Aaeamdar · Post by **Aaeamdar** » December 19, 2002, 4:01 am

Gollum: Perfect. I was really worried (needlessly) about him. He is a great character (certainly in my top 3 for the books) with strong emontional play and I knew both that he was going to be fully CGI and in significant footage in this movie and the next. I cannot imagine him being done better than he was.

Gandalf: Hated the star scean. From now on I will close my eyes during that part. Blackness with his naration would have been much preferable and possibly the right way to do it. Apart from that, Gandalf was incredible. McKellen plays him so well and to so clearly get right both Gandalf the Grey and Gandalf the White is really impressive to me.

Ents: Wow! Another part I was worried about looking cheasy and what a job! I'll agree on the above poster's comment about the convocation being cut short, but I expected that as much as I expected Tom to not be in the first film. I'll expect another 2-3 minutes of footage on the DVD.

Minas Tirth: Could have used more. Hopefully DVD will correct that.

Helms Deep: Not sure what to say. I really want to know where Jackson found 10,000 Orc. The filming was amazing. If you have not done so (on my third veiwing tomorrow), really watch in detail the various "not center of focus" action. Those guys are fighting, walking, etc. Different orcs do different things. It is really amazing work the amount of detail put into it.

Frodo and Sam: I could have used a lot more footage, but then they did stop the movie a bit befor ethe end of the book. PLus, the movie was long and the DVD will very likely correct this. When it comes down to it, I just can;t get enough of Gollum and any scean with Frodo and Sam will have Gollum there too.

My biggest complaint is having to wait until next December to see Return of the King. A March release would have been nice.

After last year's travesty, I hope the Academy sees fit to award TT and PJ the Oscars they both deserve.

Fredonia Coldheart · December 19, 2002, 10:56 am

Arborealus wrote:Ya know most of the purists and rabid Tolkien Fans (yes I have read this at least once a year for the last 27 years) have not considered the changes as horrid...

/em raises hand (I got the set of books for Christmas back in the 70s and have almost read them once a year)

I must say they have done a wonderful job with the movies. They have captured the heart of the story perfectly.

As for comparing the two movies, I don't really think you can. This isn't a sequel, it is just the second part of the movie. You can really tell that they wrote the script for all three first and then shot them all at the same time. I don't think it would have been as good if they had done one all the way through first, and then started on the second.

So now I'll have the books to read each year and the movies to watch every year!

Hoarmurath · Post by **Hoarmurath** » December 19, 2002, 12:20 pm

Aaeamdar wrote:I really want to know where Jackson found 10,000 Orc. The filming was amazing. If you have not done so (on my third veiwing tomorrow), really watch in detail the various "not center of focus" action. Those guys are fighting, walking, etc. Different orcs do different things. It is really amazing work the amount of detail put into it.

They're all CGI. Do a search on "WETA" and "Massive" and you'll get plenty of hits. Amazing what they can do with software these days.

kurzweil · Post by **kurzweil** » December 19, 2002, 3:54 pm

The voices for the 10,000 orcs were actually some 25,000 soccer fans in NZ; Peter Jackson showed up with his sound crew during halftime of a game, and got them all to do various chants in black speech, battle cries, etc.

DVD will also have more of an R rating than PG-13; seems they had to cut out a lot of the more bloody (heads flying etc) scenes from Helm's Deep, but are planning to put them back in.

Very impressive how they've managed to convey the psychological effects of the Ring without slowing down the action with voiceovers or such.

Aaeamdar · Post by **Aaeamdar** » December 19, 2002, 6:07 pm

Ummm. Yes, I am actually aware that Orcs don't exist.

My comment about wondering where Jackson found the 10k Orcs was a nod to the CGI being so good, they seemed alive.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » December 19, 2002, 8:20 pm

I saw the 12 am show and was tired as hell going into the movie. I still stayed up and watched the whole thing, just fucking marvelous. The previews were also the shit.

X-Men 2 already has me waiting for next summer.

Cotto · Post by **Cotto** » December 20, 2002, 11:23 am

A lot of the work done for battle, orcs vs. elves and so forth was done using a nice little A.I system.
For some reason it has hardly been used before in films. And from what I gathered from the documentry it looks pretty much like a video game.

1) Create orcs, strength 3
2) Create elves, strength 2
3) Set both armies on earth other and watch the battle massacre taking place.

Edit: Orcs are real, dont spoil my dreams!!!

KilornCloudwalker · December 20, 2002, 12:02 pm

Finally saw it yesterday. Very good movie, didn't flow as easily at FOTR but was still enjoyable. Great effects, but felt the story was muddled...a lot of little things that I didn't quite catch either through dialogue or just not knowing the books... but overall I enjoyed it very much. Give Gimli and Legolas more screentime..they own these movies:)

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » December 20, 2002, 12:25 pm

I did enjoy it. Maybe i had let my hopes get set too high, but i dont think so. A second viewing will help me out i guess

I think the pacing of the movie was a bit slower than it needed to be. I do have a problem with some of the deviations from the book personally. Having every female character fall in love with Aragorn is dumb. Eowyn and he shouldnt have been batting eyes at each other. Inserting Aragorn's "Fisher King" moment (mortally wounded but recovers) so they could insert cheesy love crap with he and Arwen was boring to me.

I guess the rational for Faramir not letting Frodo go on his own instead of taking him to Osgiliath was to illustrate more clearly to the viewer the influence that the ring can have on somebody. i think the destroyed Gollum is sufficient to that end though, as well as Boromir's failing in the FotR. But i think it also gives the wrong first impression of Faramir's character, who is not like his brother who failed. I think it is an important thing that there is substantial honor among the people of Gondor.

I also didnt like the way the ent sublot unwound.

I think in all the movie was good, but not nearly as good as Fellowship. I was really disappointed that it didnt leave us with a cliffhanger in Shelob's lair, with Sam eavesdropping on a conversation between 2 orcs discussing apparent corpses and the effects of certain venoms.

Gollum was amazing, and stole the show. Really amazing. I also enjoyed Gimli a whole lot, as people above me mentioned.

I don't want to come across as somebody who sounds like this book is the bibe, and ever word must be kept true, etc. My point is that some of the deviations were not only unneccesary, but ran counter to their original sources in the book.

I think people who dont know the vocabulary of Middle Earth may have had a hard time following some stuff as early in the movie the actors would mumble some words almost. I think it worked from a dramatic standpoint, but i bet people like my wife were thinking "Wtf is he talking about".

Fredonia Coldheart · December 20, 2002, 12:50 pm

Voronwë wrote:Having every female character fall in love with Aragorn is dumb. Eowyn and he shouldnt have been batting eyes at each other.

Eowyn does fall in love with Aragorn in the book. Or at least she thinks she loves him. What was out of character was him checking her out.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » December 20, 2002, 1:17 pm

really?

i just read the book again last week, and i really dont remember that at all.

Post by **Xouqoa** » December 20, 2002, 2:10 pm

Saw it last night, and loved it. I realize that it can't be exactly like the book, but as with the first one, I think PJ did a great job at leaving some out, while adding/creating some stuff that would help the movie be interesting for people who haven't read the books.

KilornCloudwalker · Post by **KilornCloudwalker** » December 20, 2002, 2:24 pm

Voronwë wrote: I guess the rational for Faramir not letting Frodo go on his own instead of taking him to Osgiliath was to illustrate more clearly to the viewer the influence that the ring can have on somebody. i think the destroyed Gollum is sufficient to that end though, as well as Boromir's failing in the FotR. But i think it also gives the wrong first impression of Faramir's character, who is not like his brother who failed. I think it is an important thing that there is substantial honor among the people of Gondor.

I think people who dont know the vocabulary of Middle Earth may have had a hard time following some stuff as early in the movie the actors would mumble some words almost. I think it worked from a dramatic standpoint, but i bet people like my wife were thinking "Wtf is he talking about".

As to the first there...I was left to assume all Gondor people are dishonest, weak-willed and selfish... Watching these two movies Gondor as a whole sucks...

As to the second... I was one of those people lost in the big MidEarth words and places...they need a program handed out with these movies. I still get all these places confused:( And all the royalty people mixed up... and Gollkum, though fascinating to watch, could have used more exposition to understand what is going on with him... /shrug

Humfrey · Post by **Humfrey** » December 20, 2002, 2:49 pm

Am I the only one who is totally perplexed that Aragorn still does not have Narsil? I am beginning to think that PJ is not going to include, what I think, is a huge part of what the character of Aragorn is. I am bummed.

kurzweil · Post by **kurzweil** » December 20, 2002, 3:15 pm

/me is also wondering when the heck Narsil is going to show up. And what the heck is Arwen up to?

Eowyn's crush on Aragorn came out a lot more in book 3.

noel · Post by **noel** » December 20, 2002, 3:40 pm

Humfrey wrote:Am I the only one who is totally perplexed that Aragorn still does not have Narsil? I am beginning to think that PJ is not going to include, what I think, is a huge part of what the character of Aragorn is. I am bummed.

Narsil not yet being reforged as Anduril was disappointing in the following two scenes...

On the planes of Rohan where Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas meet Eomer, they're supposed to be all surrounded by angry Riders of Rohan:

I serve no man,' said Aragorn; 'but the servants of Sauron I pursue into whatever land they may go. There are few among mortal Men who know more of Orcs; and I do not hunt them in this fashion out of choice. The Orcs whom we pursued took captive two of my friends. In such need a man that has no horse will go on foot, and he will not ask for leave to follow the trail. Nor will he count the heads of the enemy save with a sword. I am not weaponless.'
Aragorn threw back his cloak. The elven-sheath glittered as he grasped it, and the bright blade of Anduril shone like a sudden flame as he swept it out. 'Elendil!' He cried, 'I am Aragorn son of Arathorn, and am called Ellessar, the Elfstone, Dunadan, the heir of Isildur Elendil's son of Gondor. Here is the Sword that was Broken and is forged again! Will you aid me or thwart me? Choose swiftly!'

In this scene, Aragorn is honestly saying that if the riders don't aid him, he and his companions will engage them all and that they'd best decide quickly.

Then, when they go into Theoden's throne room, and are asked to leave their weapons at the door, another scene occurs:

Slowly Aragorn unbuckled his belt and himself set his sword upright against the wall. 'Here I set it,' he said; 'but I command you not to touch it, nor to permit any other to lay hand on it. In this elvish sheath dwells the Blade that was Broken and has been made again. Telchar first wrought it in the deeps of time. Death shall come to any man that draws Elendil's sword save Elendil's heir.'
The guard stepped back and looked with amazement on Aragorn. 'It seems that you are come on the wings of song out of forgotten days,' he said. 'It shall be, lord, as you command.'

Again, showing just how different Aragorn is from normal men.

Without Narsil reforged to become Anduril, these scenes are not possible and you really don't see just how special Aragorn is. Granted they show that in other ways in the movie, but it was still slightly disappointing.

The list of things I can think of off-hand that were deviations from the book:
1. Narsil not being reforged.
I don't see a good reason for this.

2. Elves arriving at Helm's Deep.
Don't really have a huge problem with this as it didn't change the story/spirit of the story.

3. Worg Riders attacking the citizens of Rohan on the way to Helm's Deep. There were no worg riders in the book as I recall.
This was kind of Hollywoody, and I'm not sure this was necessary, but it was a fun scene and fun to watch.

4. Aragorn falling off the cliff.
I think this was the closest PJ came to actually fucking up the movie. The falling, and the return to conciousness was needless, and added nothing to the movie.

5. The Dream sequence with Aragorn and Arwen.
All of these scenes are based upon the appendices in LotR, I think they're somewhat Hollywoody, but I don't think they detract from the movie, or hurt the spirit of the books in any way. Then again, I'm biased because Liv Tyler is hawt.

6. Faramir's temptation was far overdone, and Frodo and Sam being led into Gondor were completely inappropriate in my opinion (though it all looked great to me).
These scenes looked good, but were just handled wrong. Fun for a movie, but wrong for the adaptation to movie in my opinion. The only advantage of having Faramir act in the manner that they did was to further show the temptation of the ring. I would have been somewhat ok with that, but leading Frodo and Sam to Gondor was just stupid.

7. Not having Gandalf confront Saruman in Orthanc, and not having Aragorn use the Palantir (the stone that Saruman possesses) to reveal himself to Sauron.
Again, two scenes which demonstrate the power of Aragorn and Gandalf, but not in the movie. For those that haven't read it, Aragorn is able to look into the Palantir, and not fall under the power of Sauron. As I recall, he goes into a room and looks into the Palantir, then walks out looking tired, and a bit aged, but resolved to destroy Sauron.

8. Shelob not appearing in this movie.
Obviously, it was hinted that they're approaching her lair, so I'm sure RotK will start out with a bang. Not really bothered by this.

If anyone can think of more of these, please post them, I'm trying to compile a complete list of changes from the book to the movie.

Having said all of that, I still absolutely love the movie, can't wait to see it again, and I think PJ and crew did a fantastic job. This is easily the best fantasy movie ever made, and it was a good time.

I just think you need to be able to separate the book from the movie or you'll be disappointed.

Voronwe,

As I remember reading the Eowyn scenes in the book, I do think Aragorn gave her a second glance, but I don't think it was ever more than that. Aragorn is human after all. I think he checked her out, but there was never any doubt that he was with Arwen. There were definitely flirtations on the part of Eowyn in the book.

kurzweil · Post by **kurzweil** » December 20, 2002, 4:05 pm

Aranuil wrote: 3. Worg Riders attacking the citizens of Rohan on the way to Helm's Deep. There were no worg riders in the book as I recall.
This was kind of Hollywoody, and I'm not sure this was necessary, but it was a fun scene and fun to watch.

Mentioned on the website as something they decided to do. Wargs were referred to as part of Saruman's army, but never actually seen in action.

6. Faramir's temptation was far overdone, and Frodo and Sam being led into Gondor were completely inappropriate in my opinion (though it all looked great to me).
These scenes looked good, but were just handled wrong. Fun for a movie, but wrong for the adaptation to movie in my opinion. The only advantage of having Faramir act in the manner that they did was to further show the temptation of the ring. I would have been somewhat ok with that, but leading Frodo and Sam to Gondor was just stupid.

Osgiliath as a battlefield (island in between Minas Morgul and Minas Tirith) doesn't put them in Gondor; but on the borders. Sets them up nicely for their foray into Minas Morgul. Faramir didn't come across as strong/good as in the book; the Ring is acting a lot stronger in the movie at this point which may account for it.

7. Not having Gandalf confront Saruman in Orthanc, and not having Aragorn use the Palantir (the stone that Saruman possesses) to reveal himself to Sauron.
Again, two scenes which demonstrate the power of Aragorn and Gandalf, but not in the movie. For those that haven't read it, Aragorn is able to look into the Palantir, and not fall under the power of Sauron. As I recall, he goes into a room and looks into the Palantir, then walks out looking tired, and a bit aged, but resolved to destroy Sauron.

They can still do it. This may all happen in #3.

Other changes from the book:
1. Eomer getting exiled
2. Don't think they showed that the Orcs holding the hobbits were from two factions (Mordor & Isengard)
3. Elrond acting so darn fatalistic about the whole thing. In the book it seemed the elves were much more, "we're going to fight to the end"
4. Entdraughts. But then that would present even more scale issues for the movie.
5. The entire city of Edoras going to Helm's Deep
6. Wormtongue showing up at Isengard before the battle, rather than afterwards and getting to swim through the water to the tower
7. a dwarf riding a horse!

Fredonia Coldheart · December 20, 2002, 4:56 pm

I may be confused about this scene, but in the book, didn't the Ents end up outside of Helm's Deep?

I do know that at one point the army of Rohan wake up and see a forest of trees where there once were orcs. Gandalf warns everyone not to harm a single tree. Was this at Helm's Deep or was it on the way to Orthanc?

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » December 20, 2002, 5:00 pm

the Ents did not end up near Helm's Deep. They were at Isengard the whole time.

yeah, the weapon scene at Edoras bugged me as well. WTF?

Fredonia Coldheart · December 20, 2002, 5:48 pm

Argh - it was bugging me about the Ents and Helm's Deep so I went searching. It was the Huorns (Ent like creatures) who came to help that I was thinking about.

Humfrey · Post by **Humfrey** » December 20, 2002, 7:09 pm

My whole take on Aragorn is that PJ is playing up the whole reluctant hero angle, which in my opinion takes away from the character. That aside, i still loved the movie. )

noel · Post by **noel** » December 20, 2002, 7:30 pm

kurzweil wrote: Osgiliath as a battlefield (island in between Minas Morgul and Minas Tirith) doesn't put them in Gondor; but on the borders. Sets them up nicely for their foray into Minas Morgul. Faramir didn't come across as strong/good as in the book; the Ring is acting a lot stronger in the movie at this point which may account for it.

Ack sorry, I was confused about where they were. Thanks for explaining.

Other changes from the book:
1. Eomer getting exiled.

This is like some of the other changes... they don't really effect anything, but I can't see the reason for the change.

2. Don't think they showed that the Orcs holding the hobbits were from two factions (Mordor & Isengard)

Agree, but not a huge deal IMHO.

3. Elrond acting so darn fatalistic about the whole thing. In the book it seemed the elves were much more, "we're going to fight to the end"

PJ and crew seem to be really trying to hammer home that it's the end of the time of the elves.

4. Entdraughts. But then that would present even more scale issues for the movie.
5. The entire city of Edoras going to Helm's Deep.

This was pretty clear to me.

6. Wormtongue showing up at Isengard before the battle, rather than afterwards and getting to swim through the water to the tower.

Agree.

7. a dwarf riding a horse!

In the book, he was never on a horse that Legolas wasn't driving.

KilornCloudwalker · Post by **KilornCloudwalker** » December 20, 2002, 7:42 pm

Aranuil wrote:
kurzweil wrote:

2. Don't think they showed that the Orcs holding the hobbits were from two factions (Mordor & Isengard)
Agree, but not a huge deal IMHO.

It seemed obvious to me that there were two different something there... The big guys that Saruman 'grows' and the freaky faced guys....the freaky faced guays are the ones who wanted to eat the hobbits..the big guys stopped them... this not the same thing as what you are saying?

Post by **Xouqoa** » December 20, 2002, 9:07 pm

Aranuil wrote:
Other changes from the book:
1. Eomer getting exiled.
This is like some of the other changes... they don't really effect anything, but I can't see the reason for the change.

He had to get exiled so Gandalf could bring him and his men back to Helm's Deep at the end just in time to save everyone.

kurzweil · Post by **kurzweil** » December 21, 2002, 1:23 am

eomer's exile
In the book it was Erkenbrand who shows up with Gandalf to save the day, but that would have required yet another character introduction, which condensed nicely into Eomer.

mordor vs isengard orcs
Book version has them arguing whether to take hobbits to Mordor or to Isengard; both groups of orcs have different orders, and they fight.

Not a big deal, but does show that all is not all hunky-dory between Saruman and Sauron; that they may be acting like allies, but are both in it for themselves. Of course, in the movie they've concentrated mainly on having Saruman working FOR Sauron. I don't think any of the movie characters mentioned "Too bad we're in between Isengard and Mordor, we could sit back and watch them pound each other to bits", but something in that regard is said in the book.

huorns
that would have been cool to see...an entire forest moving... maybe in the DVD?
Oh, and in the book, there are actually a few Ents with the Huorns by Helm's Deep. Legolas looks back when they leave Helm's Deep, and sees them.

Still waiting for Aragorn to act kingly. Didn't see much of him rallying men at Helm's Deep, just saw him running around singlehandedly killing lots of orcs.

Silly ranger, 10k-ing off the cliff like that.