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Post by Winnow »

What's up with the spy coins? UR stealing R Seekrits!

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/APWire ... VU6O0.html
U.S. warns about Canadian spy coins

By TED BRIDIS
Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON — Money talks, but can it also follow your movements?

In a U.S. government warning high on the creepiness scale, the Defense Department cautioned its American contractors over what it described as a new espionage threat: Canadian coins with tiny radio frequency transmitters hidden inside.

The government said the mysterious coins were found planted on U.S. contractors with classified security clearances on at least three separate occasions between October 2005 and January 2006 as the contractors traveled through Canada.

Intelligence and technology experts said such transmitters, if they exist, could be used to surreptitiously track the movements of people carrying the spy coins.

The U.S. report doesn't suggest who might be tracking American defense contractors or why. It also doesn't describe how the Pentagon discovered the ruse, how the transmitters might function or even which Canadian currency contained them.

Further details were secret, according to the U.S. Defense Security Service, which issued the warning to the Pentagon's classified contractors. The government insists the incidents happened, and the risk was genuine.

"What's in the report is true," said Martha Deutscher, a spokeswoman for the security service. "This is indeed a sanitized version, which leaves a lot of questions."

Top suspects, according to outside experts: China, Russia or even France - all said to actively run espionage operations inside Canada with enough sophistication to produce such technology.

The Canadian Security Intelligence Service said it knew nothing about the coins.

"This issue has just come to our attention," CSIS spokeswoman Barbara Campion said. "At this point, we don't know of any basis for these claims." She said Canada's intelligence service works closely with its U.S. counterparts and will seek more information if necessary.

Experts were astonished about the disclosure and the novel tracking technique, but they rejected suggestions Canada's government might be spying on American contractors. The intelligence services of the two countries are extraordinarily close and routinely share sensitive secrets.

"It would seem unthinkable," said David Harris, former chief of strategic planning for the Canadian Security Intelligence Service. "I wouldn't expect to see any offensive operation against the Americans."

Harris said likely candidates include foreign spies who targeted Americans abroad or businesses engaged in corporate espionage. "There are certainly a lot of mysterious aspects to this," Harris said.

Experts said such tiny transmitters would almost certainly have limited range to communicate with sensors no more than a few feet away, such as ones hidden inside a doorway. The metal in the coins also could interfere with any signals emitted.

"I'm not aware of any (transmitter) that would fit inside a coin and broadcast for kilometers," said Katherine Albrecht, an activist who believes such technology carries serious privacy risks. "Whoever did this obviously has access to some pretty advanced technology."

Experts said hiding tracking technology inside coins is fraught with risks because the spy's target might inadvertently give away the coin or spend it buying coffee or a newspaper. They agreed, however, that a coin with a hidden tracking device might not arouse suspicion if it were discovered in a pocket or briefcase.

"It wouldn't seem to be the best place to put something like that; you'd want to put it in something that wouldn't be left behind or spent," said Jeff Richelson, a researcher and author of books about the CIA and its gadgets. "It doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense."

Canada's largest coins include its $2 "Toonie," which is more than 1-inch across and thick enough to hide a tiny transmitter. The CIA has acknowledged its own spies have used hollow, U.S. silver-dollar coins to hide messages and film.

The government's 29-page report was filled with other espionage warnings. It described unrelated hacker attacks, eavesdropping with miniature pen recorders and the case of a female foreign spy who seduced her American boyfriend to steal his computer passwords.

In another case, a film processing company called the FBI after it developed pictures for a contractor that contained classified images of U.S. satellites and their blueprints. The photo was taken from an adjoining office window.
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Post by Kaldaur »

Everyone seems to be ignoring the true threat: Canadian infiltration. Did you see how quick they were to discount Canada? It's a clever ruse. Canada is our real enemy. Invasion, 2009!!
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Post by Wulfran »

Kaldaur wrote:Everyone seems to be ignoring the true threat: Canadian infiltration. Did you see how quick they were to discount Canada? It's a clever ruse. Canada is our real enemy. Invasion, 2009!!
But remember you have to start by nuking Toronto (its where all the WMD are).
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Post by Neroon »

Apparently their plan to starve us out, by mixing their non-vending machine compatable coins, has been upgraded!
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Post by Siji »

If I wasn't so lazy, I'd find the thread where I specifically stated that perhaps they wouldn't force people to carry tracking devices, but instead put it in things that we couldn't do without.. like money.
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Post by Winnow »

First coins, now Canucks are stealing our women.

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Post by Niffoni »

I stole an american girl and took her back with me to canada. I'm afraid I am part of the problem.
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Post by kyoukan »

don't pollute our nice gene pool with that. marry a nice sikh or mainland chinese girl.
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Post by Niffoni »

i couldn't help it. She had that "imported" smell :(
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Post by Winnow »

hay!

This chart shows Canada with 4 non nuke subs? That true?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... med_forces

The U.S. defense budget is larger than 25+ other top ranked defenses in the world combined. Streamroll!

Aircraft Carrier column is interesting as is the nuclear sub column! I wonder if all of Russia's nuclear subs are actually functional these days...and what's with Russia having 10 times as many jet fighters as anyone else in the world?
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Post by Arborealus »

Winnow wrote: what's with Russia having 10 times as many jet fighters as anyone else in the world?
Remember the Luftwaffe?...they do, very well!
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Post by kyoukan »

Diesel-electric subs are quieter than nuclear subs when they need to be. The main advantages of nuclear subs is the lack of necessity to refuel.
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Post by Zaelath »

kyoukan wrote:Diesel-electric subs are quieter than nuclear subs when they need to be. The main advantages of nuclear subs is the lack of necessity to refuel.
They also get to stay submerged longer...
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Post by Denadeb »

Actually the newer US subs are quieter than the diesel-electric subs are but when running on elec power those subs are damn quiet and can be hard to find.
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Post by Winnow »

I shortchanged the U.S. According to that chart, the U.S. defense budget = the next 37 highest countries combined.

That chart needs more columns for things like Tomahawk missiles etc. Showing Russia with 23,000 Tanks is a bit misleading. 70% of those have to be ancient rust buckets.

As shown in the 1st gulf war, those Russian tanks were blown out of existance by U.S. and allied tanks in the desert, firing pinpoint accurate rounds while motoring along at full speed. I watched a PBS documentary on the initial invasion of Iraq during the Gulf War and it was the best example of a real life steamrolling I've seen as the Allied tanks literally destroyed the Iraqi tanks and armored vehicles without having to even slow down and before the Iraqi's were even within range to return fire. It doesn't matter what your numerical advantage is when you don't have a chance to fire...as long as the U.S./Allies have enough ammo to keep firing.

Then again, it's rare to get a nice wide open conventional desert battle these days.

The next generation of military hardware is a little unsettling with the mini fly sized reconnaissance bots, drones, microwaves, particle beams, etc. I don't envision it like the Terminator future, but more like the little spider robots programmed to kill in that old Tom Selleck movie, Runaway.

I'd love to see what our covert/delta type teams are using these days.
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Post by kyoukan »

Kilo class and Lada class subs are the two quietest subs in the world, and both are diesel-electric. I don't know how anyone could ever think that a nuclear reactor could be quieter than a battery. Oh yeah. NATIONAL PRIDE!
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Post by kyoukan »

Winnow wrote:The next generation of military hardware is a little unsettling with the mini fly sized reconnaissance bots, drones, microwaves, particle beams, etc. I don't envision it like the Terminator future, but more like the little spider robots programmed to kill in that old Tom Selleck movie, Runaway.
Yeah it will be really interesting to see all that billion dollar technology get turned into scrap metal by some 19 year old jihadist with an RPG older than his dad.
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Post by VariaVespasa »

The actual designs may be quieter, but thats a matter of the age of the design, rather than the technology. Diesel-electric is quieter than nuclear for designs the same age. If the nukes are quieter now then I guess we havent had any new diesel-electric designs lately.
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Post by Neroon »

Everyone knows the caterpillar design is the quietest. Duh!
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Post by Arborealus »

VariaVespasa wrote:The actual designs may be quieter, but thats a matter of the age of the design, rather than the technology. Diesel-electric is quieter than nuclear for designs the same age. If the nukes are quieter now then I guess we havent had any new diesel-electric designs lately.
I thought the Germans had a new uberquiet D/E Boat? Or maybe it was teh Swedes...

Ah no it was the Swedes Gotland class I was thinking of with AIP Stirling Engines...
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Post by Denadeb »

The German Type 212 is probably the quietest sub around if you want to get right down to it. It also has jack shit to do with national pride when I made my statement. For several years I worked with and on submarine hunters so I am very familiar with how loud certain subs are but I forget your an expert on every damn thing anyone talks about right. To be honest its like splitting hairs when trying to say who has the quietest sub these days.

When running silent its damn near impossible to hear most of them unless your using active sonar or some sort of MAD system
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Post by Winnow »

It's started! The U.S. is starting to lock up Canadians in preparation for war!

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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... ional/home
From Texas cell, Canadian, 9, pleads for help

Call it international limbo. Detained by U.S. Customs officials after their flight to Toronto made an unscheduled stop on American soil nearly four weeks ago, Kevin and his Iranian parents, Majid and Masomeh, feel they are being held hostage not only by the physical parameters of Hutto, but by the politics of nationality.

“We can't go home because I am Canadian but my parents are not,” Kevin said in a telephone interview with The Globe and Mail — no personal interviews have been granted.
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Post by kyoukan »

Nice to see you can make light of a 9 year old boy in an immigration detention facility because your country is full of racist assholes.
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Post by Winnow »

kyoukan wrote:Nice to see you can make light of a 9 year old boy in an immigration detention facility because your country is full of racist assholes.
Um yeah, that's why the United States is referred to as the melting pot of nationalities, leading to an opportunity for all who desire it enough to pursue the American Dream.

Maybe Canada can get with the program and issue some visas to the kid's parents Majid and Masomeh. These particular immigrants fled to Canada, not the United States.

The U.S. isn't in the habit of letting random people through into its neighbor's borders like Canada does so well. Maybe check an ID or two once in awhile? It's up to Canada to do the right thing and get them home.
When the consular officer at the Canadian consulate in Dallas visited the family at Hutto two weeks ago, Majid said, “he asked about our rooms and our food. Just regarding here. I asked him what he can do for us, and he said, ‘I don't promise now. But we can help Kevin, not you.' ”

David Marshall, a consulate spokesman, said that he could not talk about the case, citing the Privacy Act.

Alain Cacchione, a spokesman for Foreign Affairs Canada, would not comment either.

But Audrey Macklin, a professor of immigration at the University of Toronto, said that this case highlights the asymmetry of Canadian citizenship.

“We say that if adults are Canadian citizens, then they can somehow confer protection of their citizenship on their children. But we don't allow the reverse,” she said from Toronto. “Instead, what we do is render, in effect, the Canadian citizenship of the child null, because he can't exercise it [and sponsor his parents]. It's as if his Canadian citizenship doesn't exist or is worthless because his parents don't have it.”

She said that if the Canadian government wanted to protect Kevin, it could.

“If protecting this child means letting the parents into Canada, is that a price worth paying? Well, I think we should seriously consider that.”


If they were allowed back into Canada, Prof. Macklin said, they could seek what is called a pre-risk removal assessment based on “new facts about what happened in Iran when they were deported.”
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Post by Zaelath »

Winnow wrote:
kyoukan wrote:Nice to see you can make light of a 9 year old boy in an immigration detention facility because your country is full of racist assholes.
Um yeah, that's why the United States is referred to as the melting pot of nationalities, leading to an opportunity for all who desire it enough to pursue the American Dream.
What load of shit, unless you define "desire it enough" to mean "have a million US to sink into a business in the US", everyone else is shit out of luck unless they meet much more stringent criteria than say, those in Canada.
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Post by Winnow »

Zaelath wrote: What load of shit, unless you define "desire it enough" to mean "have a million US to sink into a business in the US", everyone else is shit out of luck unless they meet much more stringent criteria than say, those in Canada.
Did Xyun have a million dollars?
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Post by Zaelath »

Winnow wrote:
Zaelath wrote: What load of shit, unless you define "desire it enough" to mean "have a million US to sink into a business in the US", everyone else is shit out of luck unless they meet much more stringent criteria than say, those in Canada.
Did Xyun have a million dollars?
I would think he falls under the "more stringent criteria" category, having managed to convince immigration that he was a genuine refugee, and won the lottery to be one of the 100,000 accepted that year.
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Post by Sylvus »

Plus he had the sponsorship of Gov./Sen./Congressman Clem T. Oklahoma, Jr. (i'm just simplifying it because i don't recall the guy's real name) which I'm sure aided in the process.
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Post by Winnow »

Xyun's letter from the original thread:
To the Editor:

We are writing in response to the article entitled Sullivan Questions Istook’s Timing (15 June 2006), wherein Mr. Sullivan stated, “Let us not forget – Ernest Istook sponsored an egregious bill that became law, granting permanent resident status to two Iranian illegal aliens.” As the two people sponsored by Rep. Istook in that bill, we feel it is our duty to respond.

For the record, we are extremely grateful to Congressman Istook for his actions on our behalf. There can be no doubt that H.R. 848 helped save our lives. Our father was arrested and murdered by the Iranian regime for participating in anti-revolutionary protests in 1981. Our mother was forced to escape that treacherous regime and successfully fled to the United States in 1985 with her two children. She was subsequently killed in a car accident in 1997 in Houston while campaigning to prolong our stay in the United States. As such, few people hold more disdain for the political leaders of Iran than we. We were raised in America and instilled with the American values of Freedom and Democracy. Any statement branding us as anything to the contrary is at best misleading and at worst libelous.

Should Mr. Sullivan care to address what specifically made H.R. 848 an egregious bill, we would welcome discussion on the topic. To date, we have not received any correspondence from Mr. Sullivan’s office, nor from any person affiliated with Mr. Sullivan’s gubernatorial campaign, which might serve to back up claims that Mr. Istook’s endorsement of said bill is egregious. It is disheartening that Mr. Sullivan chose to take a truly humanitarian and altruistic act by Rep. Istook regarding the relief of two young men and turn it into a political attack. It occurs to us that Mr. Sullivan’s lack of research into the matter before making such comments is indicative of his political inexperience.

Rep. Istook took great risk in acting on our behalf. Surely he anticipated such attacks as Mr. Sullivan is currently making. Yet despite the political uncertainty, he opted to take the humane route by choosing not to allow two boys to be sent to certain suffering or death in a hostile and malevolent nation. Rather than condemning Congressman Istook for introducing this bill, let us instead thank him for giving two people the greatest gift they have ever received, the gift of freedom. Let us also remind Mr. Sullivan that manipulating this issue for personal political gain is neither advantageous to his campaign, nor is it becoming of a Christian, an American, or an Oklahoman.
Hopefully, if he feels like it, Xyun can clear up what happened up to the point where the congressman took up the cause. It's apparent from the letter than his mother was working toward prolonging their stay in the U.S. before her death. I doubt it was just luck or winning a lottery as Zaelath suggests.
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Post by Zaelath »

Because he was in the US at the time, that would make him classed as an asylum seeker rather than a refugee applicant, and since 1996 it's very likely he'd be shit out of luck without a friendly congressman on board: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_Im ... bility_Act

NB, this was not an extra two immigrants, they put a rider into the bill to make sure the quotas weren't breached.
SEC. 2. REDUCTION OF IMMIGRANT VISA NUMBER.

Upon the granting of an immigrant visa or permanent residence to SF and FF, the Secretary of State shall instruct the proper officer to reduce by two, during the current or next following fiscal year, the total number of immigrant visas that are made available to natives of the country of the aliens' birth under section 203(a) of the Immigration and Nationality Act or, if applicable, the total number of immigrant visas that are made available to natives of the country of the aliens' birth under section 202(e) of such Act.
In any case, I fail to see how Xyun wasn't very lucky to be granted a visa, albeit it was about time his luck changed...

It's very hard to find stats on how many applications for asylum/refugee immigration are received, and no hope at all of working out how many people enter as illegals and are genuine refugees. But yeah, I think there's a lot more luck than desire involved in being successful.
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Post by Boogahz »

I haven't read everything there is about this story, but how is US immigration policy related to Canada not letting them in?
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Post by Wulfran »

What I don't understand is why the US is detaining these people? They were on a flight to Toronto that had to make an unplanned stop on US soil, so keep em quarantined if they dont meet all the US visiting requirements, and send them on their way when the flight continues on. That way it becomes the problem of the Canadian Customs and Immigration officials if they land and don't have the right paperwork/entrance visas. Doesn't the gestap...er Dept of Homeland Security have enough shit to do already?
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Post by Zaelath »

Boogahz wrote:I haven't read everything there is about this story, but how is US immigration policy related to Canada not letting them in?
Beats me =)
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Post by Winnow »

"Canada Worse than 3rd World Countries when it comes to Mobile Data Access"

http://www.thomaspurves.com/2007/04/09/ ... ta-access/

$1,600.00 for 500MB/month bandwidth?

Now that's expensive in U.S. of even Canadian money! You best stick to land lines up there.
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Post by kyoukan »

Funny, I pay 19.00/mo for unlimited data addon, It's pretty clear that they are comparing out of plan data rates to in plan rates in other countries, and it's also abundantly clear that the maker of that site has an agenda. Well, it's clear to someone who isn't a fucking moron anyway.

Most developing nations are going to have better overall wireless coverage because they lack a POTS infrastructure and have built a wireless network from the ground up to support their entire communications network.
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Post by Dregor Thule »

An odd-looking Canadian coin with a bright red flower was the culprit behind a U.S. Defense Department false espionage warning earlier this year about mysterious coin-like objects with radio frequency transmitters, The Associated Press has learned.

The harmless "poppy coin" was so unfamiliar to suspicious U.S. Army contractors traveling in Canada that they filed confidential espionage accounts about them. The worried contractors described the coins as "anomalous" and "filled with something man-made that looked like nano-technology," according to once-classified U.S. government reports and e-mails obtained by the AP.

The silver-colored 25-cent piece features the red image of a poppy — Canada's flower of remembrance — inlaid over a maple leaf. The unorthodox quarter is identical to the coins pictured and described as suspicious in the contractors' accounts.

The supposed nano-technology actually was a conventional protective coating the Royal Canadian Mint applied to prevent the poppy's red color from rubbing off. The mint produced nearly 30 million such quarters in 2004 commemorating Canada's 117,000 war dead.

"It did not appear to be electronic (analog) in nature or have a power source," wrote one U.S. contractor, who discovered the coin in the cup holder of a rental car. "Under high power microscope, it appeared to be complex consisting of several layers of clear, but different material, with a wire like mesh suspended on top."

The confidential accounts led to a sensational warning from the Defense Security Service, an agency of the Defense Department, that mysterious coins with radio frequency transmitters were found planted on U.S. contractors with classified security clearances on at least three separate occasions between October 2005 and January 2006 as the contractors traveled through Canada.

One contractor believed someone had placed two of the quarters in an outer coat pocket after the contractor had emptied the pocket hours earlier. "Coat pockets were empty that morning and I was keeping all of my coins in a plastic bag in my inner coat pocket," the contractor wrote.

But the Defense Department subsequently acknowledged that it could never substantiate the espionage alarm that it had put out and launched the internal review that turned up the true nature of the mysterious coin.

Meanwhile, in Canada, senior intelligence officials expressed annoyance with the American spy-coin warnings as they tried to learn more about the oddball claims.

"That story about Canadians planting coins in the pockets of defense contractors will not go away," Luc Portelance, now deputy director for the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, wrote in a January e-mail to a subordinate. "Could someone tell me more? Where do we stand and what's the story on this?"

Others in Canada's spy service also were searching for answers. "We would be very interested in any more detail you may have on the validity of the comment related to the use of Canadian coins in this manner," another intelligence official wrote in an e-mail. "If it is accurate, are they talking industrial or state espionage? If the latter, who?" The identity of the e-mail's recipient was censored.

Intelligence and technology experts were flabbergasted over the warning when it was first publicized earlier this year. The warning suggested that such transmitters could be used surreptitiously to track the movements of people carrying the coins.

"I thought the whole thing was preposterous, to think you could tag an individual with a coin and think they wouldn't give it away or spend it," said H. Keith Melton, a leading intelligence historian.

But Melton said the Army contractors properly reported their suspicions. "You want contractors or any government personnel to report anything suspicious," he said. "You can't have the potential target evaluating whether this was an organized attack or a fluke."

The Defense Security Service disavowed its warning about spy coins after an international furor, but until now it has never disclosed the details behind the embarrassing episode. The U.S. said it never substantiated the contractors' claims and performed an internal review to determine how the false information was included in a 29-page published report about espionage concerns.

The Defense Security Service never examined the suspicious coins, spokeswoman Cindy McGovern said. "We know where we made the mistake," she said. "The information wasn't properly vetted. While these coins aroused suspicion, there ultimately was nothing there."

A numismatist consulted by the AP, Dennis Pike of Canadian Coin & Currency near Toronto, quickly matched a grainy image and physical descriptions of the suspect coins in the contractors' confidential accounts to the 25-cent poppy piece.

"It's not uncommon at all," Pike said. He added that the coin's protective coating glows peculiarly under ultraviolet light. "That may have been a little bit suspicious," he said.

Some of the U.S. documents the AP obtained were classified "Secret/Noforn," meaning they were never supposed to be viewed by foreigners, even America's closest allies. The government censored parts of the files, citing national security reasons, before turning over copies under the U.S. Freedom of Information Act.

Nothing in the documents — except the reference to nanotechnology — explained how the contractors' accounts evolved into a full-blown warning about spy coins with radio frequency transmitters. Many passages were censored, including the names of contractors and details about where they worked and their projects.

But there were indications the accounts should have been taken lightly. Next to one blacked-out sentence was this warning: "This has not been confirmed as of yet."

The Canadian intelligence documents, which also were censored, were turned over to the AP for $5 under that country's Access to Information Act. Canada cited rules for protecting against subversive or hostile activities to explain why it censored the papers.
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Post by Hesten »

Wonder how many millons Homeland Security spend on that little adventure :)
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Post by Dregor Thule »

Hesten wrote:Wonder how many millons Homeland Security spend on that little adventure :)
For once our money had a better conversion rate to the US dollar.
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Post by Animalor »

The coin in question.

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Go go overreaction!
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Post by Kwonryu DragonFist »

Canada is quite the superpower!

Do not underestimate them!
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Post by Aslanna »

It says Canada.. That alone makes it suspicious!
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Post by Animalor »

The only way to get these coins when they first came out was as change at Tim Horton's.

I'm still laughing..
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Post by Lalanae »

I want one. Hook me up Dregor.
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Post by Dregor Thule »

Lalanae wrote:I want one. Hook me up Dregor.
This is the first time I've ever seen one ><
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Post by Winnow »

Canadian violence rears its ugly head:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/s ... TopStories
Suspect in T.O. school shooting still at large

Updated Wed. May. 23 2007 10:31 PM ET

toronto.ctv.ca

Police are searching for a suspect in the death of a 15-year-old boy, fatally shot in a Toronto high school by a single bullet to the chest.

Students were locked down for several hours Wednesday afternoon as police searched C.W. Jefferys Collegiate Institute, until they were finally bussed to a nearby location and released to their families.

The shooting victim has been identified as Jordan Manners.

"The event that took place today is a very serious matter," said Toronto Police Chief Bill Blair. "A young student lost his life in this school, and it should be a safe environment for everyone."

There are reports that prior to the shooting there was a confrontation at a nearby strip mall. The fight then carried into the hallways of the school, where one person managed to acquire a weapon.

Manners was hit once in the chest while on the second floor of the school at around 2:30 p.m.

Police received a call about a possible drowning, but arrived at the school to find the teenage boy in a corridor suffering from a single gunshot wound.

The Grade 9 student was taken to Sunnybrook Hospital with serious injuries, but doctors were unable to save him.

Manners' mother arrived at the hospital a short while later and collapsed in tears after learning of her son's death.

No arrests have been made and police have not released any information about possible suspects.

Police and heavily armed tactical officers guarded the school Wednesday afternoon, but the area was not closed to traffic.

Parents arrived at the scene with little knowledge of the shooting, desperate for information. Many used cellphones to contact their children still inside.

One woman met the victim's mother outside the school, just as an official said her son had been shot. The mother fell to the ground with grief.

"I helped her up and then I found she was the victim's mom. She was unable to say a word," said the woman. "The nurse said one thing, and then I encouraged her, saying 'Be strong for your son, be strong for your son.'"

Friends and neighbours of Manners described him as a "sweet little boy" who turned 15 last Friday.

"I just feel sorry for the kid and his family," a neighbourhood friend who had known Manners since he was in kindergarten told the Canadian Press. "He just didn't deserve that."

Stu Auty, of the Safe School Network, said parents should be honest with the students about the situation and talk to them about the tragedy.

"Once you know the details, you explain the realities of the situation, the realities of the safety of the school," he said.

"And also, it's time to talk about values, what kids are doing today, and what kind of dangerous risks are out there."

The school has about 850 students and is located near the Jane and Finch corridor, a poor area of Toronto noted for years for its high crime rate.

The Toronto District School Board released a statement Wednesday evening, expressing its condolences to the family of Manners.

"We all feel a need to search for answers as to how and why this tragedy occurred, and there will be time to do that in the days and weeks ahead. But today we need to direct our collective compassion and support to the student's family, friends and the C.W. Jefferys C.I. school community," the statement said.

The school board added that counsellors will be at the school early Thursday morning to help students with the tragedy, and will remain as long as they are needed.

Provincial Education Minister Kathleen Wynne called the incident "every parent's nightmare."

"You react as a politician and a minister, but first you react as a mom," she told CTV Newsnet. "And you just can't imagine having this happen to your child. My heart absolutely goes out to the family. And as the education minister, I react with compete dismay that something like this could happen at one of our schools."

Officials at the scene cordoned off a large area surrounding the building. Former Toronto police officer John Muise, of the Centre for Abuse Awareness, said investigators always will try to expand the crime scene as much as possible.

"It's easy to make a crime scene smaller, but it's really difficult to make a crime scene bigger," he told Newsnet.

"Police recognize that, particularly with a shooting in a school, it can often be what we call a dynamic crime scene. So a suspect has entered the building, gone to a number of locations, potentially found a crime victim. There could be a blood trail, depending on the kind of firearm, and there could be shell casings left at the scene, and any variety of evidence."

He said that holding the students inside the school also keeps them safe, because it allows for greater control of the scene while police conduct a thorough search.

With reports from CTV's Lisa LaFlamme, Jim Junkin, Austin Delaney and John Musselman
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Post by miir »

I'm not quite sure what that has to do with stupid americans thinking a red poppy emblem on a quarter is a spy device....


But to address your non-sequitur...

In Toronto, of the 78 homicides last year, 29 were gun related.


Chicago with a similar population, had 446 homicides.
Houston with a population of 2 million, had 329.
Philadelphia with a population of 1.5 million had 406.

New York which is considered one of the safest metropolitan city in the US has a murder rate double that of Toronto.


I found a firearm homicide rate per 100k chart for the US.
The only state with a gun-related homicide rate lower than Toronto's total homicide rate is Hawaii.
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Post by Niffoni »

Hay Winnow, I think u posted in teh wrong thread! This one is about pooppies!
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Post by Winnow »

This is meant to be an "all things Canadian" <3 thread! Spy coins just happened to be the first topic!
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Post by Niffoni »

Finally, a thread for ME! =D
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Re: Shady Canucks

Post by Winnow »

Lets get the snow cleaned up people!
Scientists to Canada: clean your dirty snow

Tue Jun 12, 2:26 PM ET

Even Canada's thinly populated Arctic regions can play a role in curbing global warming, by reducing soot from dirty, old cooking stoves which are blackening snow and making it melt faster.

It's one problem on a list of many outlined by researchers at the universities of California and Colorado. They urged Canadians to filter smoke stacks, reduce ship traffic and burn fuels out in their entirety to minimize dirty waste.

In a study examining the impact of burning fossil fuel in snow-covered northern climes, the scientists said grubby snow contributes to global warming because it absorbs more heat from the sun, and melts faster.

"Canada is special because it's so far north and when you look at climate change prediction, the global mean temperature changes," said Charlie Zender, one of the authors of the report, published in the Journal of Geophysical Research.

Zender said average Arctic temperatures have risen by 1.6 degrees Celsius (2.9 degrees Fahrenheit) since the late 1700s, with filthy snow accounting for a degree of that alone.

"For the next 20 years, it's crucial for the Northern polar regions," he said. "The key to averting massive climate change ... is to preserve the summer pack and sea ice."

Once the ice starts to recede and the water is exposed to the sun, the polar ice cap melts more quickly, he said.

That could mean new shipping lanes, but trade opportunities won't be the only things washing up onshore.

"Those are going to produce sources of some of the dirtiest soot because of their diesel engines ... it's going to push an already vulnerable region past its tipping point."
American snow:

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Canadian snow:

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