The Official PS3 thread!

miir · Post by **miir** » February 6, 2007, 4:31 pm

Winnow wrote:More good news for the 360:

Microsoft has replaced the current Toshiba-Samsung and Hitachi-LG drives with BenQ VAD6038 DVD drives in the Xbox 360 consoles manufactured in November 2006 onward. According to user reports, the new Philips-based drive is extremely quiet compared to its predecessor and even loads games faster. The fact that Microsoft is making hardware changes to its console results in a few questions. What else will they change? Maybe a bigger hard disk drive? Is the Zephyr really coming?
The faster loading 360 optical drive gets quieter and even faster.

Well that doesn't help the 10 million current owners of a 360.

Kinda like MS saying FUCK YOU to the people who bought thier 360 in the first year... they make it faster, quieter and better, forcing people to buy a brand new 360 or suffer with the current noisy and slow DVD in their 360.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » February 6, 2007, 4:31 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:
miir wrote:
Oh and to answer your question at the end of your post - I don't need to get into this with you - I can assure you that the PS3 isn't - at ANY point going to surpass total sales for the 360, and DEFINATELY not the Wii..

That is all that matters in the end, so check back with me in a year or so - and we will see who gets to laugh at who.
Just caught that edit.

Your ignorance is really quite amusing.

The 360 has failed miserably making any sort of headway into the international market. The sales an Asia have been an unmitigated disaster and Euope has been lukewarm at best.

I don't deny that the 360 is very strong in North America.

Once the PS3 gets some high profile releases, I predict the sales charts will tip in it's favour. By the end of the year, I would be surprised if the PS3's total sales aren't well beyond the 360s.
While it is obvious that the Japanese market is somewhat important (if M$ is making an effort to try and penetrate it) the Euro + Japanese market combined sells about the same as the U.S. (I think im fairly close on this one, although I may be wrong.) So even if the 360 just does OK in those markets, and wins in the US market, how is that a formula for a win for the PS3...

Oh, and btw.. Dolt, cockface, idiot, retard, moron, etc, etc.. I got all of the name calling out of the way for you, so just skip to making a valid response to my statement.

If oyu look at the figures that Miir posted about PS2 sales, they outline that North America and Europe have about the same sales with Japan being about half that number.

40/40/20 I think the breakout was give or take.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » February 6, 2007, 4:40 pm

Winnow wrote:More good news for the 360:

Microsoft has replaced the current Toshiba-Samsung and Hitachi-LG drives with BenQ VAD6038 DVD drives in the Xbox 360 consoles manufactured in November 2006 onward. According to user reports, the new Philips-based drive is extremely quiet compared to its predecessor and even loads games faster. The fact that Microsoft is making hardware changes to its console results in a few questions. What else will they change? Maybe a bigger hard disk drive? Is the Zephyr really coming?
The faster loading 360 optical drive gets quieter and even faster.

Maybe PS3 will fix its laundry list of faults which make it not much more than a hard to program group of random hi tech parts thrown together into a big black box atm.

About fucking time. Of course we already own a 360 and are not about to buy a second one, even if I was not skeptical that a less noisy DVD-ROM would some how make the Jet Propulsion fan system in the 360 any less annoying (or less likely to lock up during prolonged play). You know what else could reduce load times? Having all units with hard drives, instead of bowing to the inner jew and pushing the naked box 360 and forcing developers to support it equally. I figured MS of all people would recognize the importance of a cache file. How about the priemere online console being the only one without integrated wireless? If the built to be cheap Wii can have it, surely the next run of 360s better have it. To be fair, the wireless issue and overheats are the only real issues I have had with the 360, aside from the noisy fan.

As for the PS3, I fail to see anythign remotely wrong with the unit. Its quiet, never locks up, plays EVERYTHING I have tried on it (playing Rogue Galaxy atm, PS2 RPG, and some Resistance) without issue, and makes absolutely no noise. My only issues, as I have stated, are longer load times (noticable but small) and the inability to browse while downloading content (something that the Xb0x360 had issue with until it was patched in). The titles simply need to hit the shelves, for both consoles, really, before the true comparisons can be made. But from a strict hardware perspective, you and Spunkmaster are on crack if you think the 360 exceeds the PS3 in any area, beyond having a rumble feature.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » February 6, 2007, 4:45 pm

miir wrote:
Winnow wrote:More good news for the 360:

Microsoft has replaced the current Toshiba-Samsung and Hitachi-LG drives with BenQ VAD6038 DVD drives in the Xbox 360 consoles manufactured in November 2006 onward. According to user reports, the new Philips-based drive is extremely quiet compared to its predecessor and even loads games faster. The fact that Microsoft is making hardware changes to its console results in a few questions. What else will they change? Maybe a bigger hard disk drive? Is the Zephyr really coming?
The faster loading 360 optical drive gets quieter and even faster.

Well that doesn't help the 10 million current owners of a 360.

Kinda like MS saying FUCK YOU to the people who bought thier 360 in the first year... they make it faster, quieter and better, forcing people to buy a brand new 360 or suffer with the current noisy and slow DVD in their 360.

Or all of those 10 million people can make use of the warranty they have on their current 360 (you have to be a complete retard to not buy it from either the store or MS) and get one of the improved 360's..

miir · Post by **miir** » February 6, 2007, 4:49 pm

I think I figured it out that if you wanted the match the features of the PS3 on a 360, you'd have to spend around $800.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 6, 2007, 4:54 pm

Jice Virago wrote:But from a strict hardware perspective, you and Spunkmaster are on crack if you think the 360 exceeds the PS3 in any area, beyond having a rumble feature.

How about "wireless" controllers that don't need to be plugged in to sync or resync when they fail? How ass backwards was Sony for requiring their "wireless" controllers to be connected for sync and resyncing?...along with the well documented internal conflicts between Blue Tooth and the Wi Fi Lan and slower loading optical drive, and a key feature removal like rumble. Fancy parts need to work well together. You can't just throw shit together, remove key features like rumble and then call it the ultimate in gaming consoles.

I also don't see why people bitch when a consoles parts are upgraded. The 360 was already faster in loading than the PS3 and now it's even faster. People knew what they were buying when the original consoles came out (should have read some reviews if you didn't) and you get to live with that. Microsoft is working on making the console even better. That's great news.

Better, faster, cheaper = what the 360 is currently
Better, even faster, cooler, cheaper = what 360 is heading toward

Sounds good to me.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » February 6, 2007, 4:58 pm

To the various comments about how the "upgraded" drives don't help people who were already owners of the 360, I just exchanged mine in a store under the original (recently extended to) 1-year warranty for one of these new units. I can actually hear the creek behind my place while playing on my 360 again (and not just during a flood)!

miir · Post by **miir** » February 6, 2007, 4:58 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:Or all of those 10 million people can make use of the warranty they have on their current 360 (you have to be a complete retard to not buy it from either the store or MS) and get one of the improved 360's..

I used the exact same argument I think winnow used regarding the possibility of Sony upgrading the BluRay drive on the PS3.

miir · Post by **miir** » February 6, 2007, 5:01 pm

Hey Winnow.
Instead of beating your chest about how much faster loading the 360 is compared to the PS3, how about you post some load time comparisons?

Y'know.. with facts n stuff?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 6, 2007, 6:08 pm

No hard data yet! Here are some comments from a person that owns a PS3 and a new 360 quiet drive:

I was just about to post a comparison. I have the 60GB PS3, which I've had since launch. I only have Resistance to judge the PS3's mechanical noise, so other games may or may not make as much noise. As you all know, the PS3's BD doesn't spin as fast as the 360s, so it IS quieter in that it doesn't make as much noise when at full RPMs. HOWEVER, my PS3's BD drive is MUCH noisier than the BenQ drive in my 360 when it's actually pulling data off the disc. My PS3 actually sounds like the LG drive that came in the original XBOX late in it's lifecycle, when it's pulling data. I've even put my ear to the vents by my 360's HDD and I could still barely hear the BenQ while continually loading areas while playing Saint's Row and Oblivion. Both games pull data constantly, and you know what they sound like on your T/S or Hitachi. So again, the PS3 isn't as noisy as the BenQ drive at max RPMs(though it is better than the Hitachi and T/S), but when reading the game the BenQ is VERY QUIET in comparison. It all boils down to which noise you're more comfortable with.

Sounds promising. Nice that the PS3 is quiet due to the sloth-like Blu Ray while sacrificing transfer times, but the new 360 drive looks like it will compare well with the PS3's noise levels while increasing it's advantage in speed even more.

Noise was the primary fault I've found with the original 360.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » February 6, 2007, 6:14 pm

Jice Virago wrote:As for the PS3, I fail to see anythign remotely wrong with the unit. Its quiet, never locks up, plays EVERYTHING I have tried on it (playing Rogue Galaxy atm, PS2 RPG, and some Resistance) without issue, and makes absolutely no noise.

The PS3 really is a nice piece of hardware. It is totally silent and cool to the touch even on the bottom and the back after playing for hours. Most of the issues with the online functionality are due to be upgraded in a firmware update.

Sadly I haven't turned it on in about a month.

There are quite a few nice games coming out in March, though. But even more games are getting pushed back.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » February 6, 2007, 6:45 pm

Winnow wrote:No hard data yet! Here are some comments from a person that owns a PS3 and a new 360 quiet drive:

I was just about to post a comparison. I have the 60GB PS3, which I've had since launch. I only have Resistance to judge the PS3's mechanical noise, so other games may or may not make as much noise. As you all know, the PS3's BD doesn't spin as fast as the 360s, so it IS quieter in that it doesn't make as much noise when at full RPMs. HOWEVER, my PS3's BD drive is MUCH noisier than the BenQ drive in my 360 when it's actually pulling data off the disc. My PS3 actually sounds like the LG drive that came in the original XBOX late in it's lifecycle, when it's pulling data. I've even put my ear to the vents by my 360's HDD and I could still barely hear the BenQ while continually loading areas while playing Saint's Row and Oblivion. Both games pull data constantly, and you know what they sound like on your T/S or Hitachi. So again, the PS3 isn't as noisy as the BenQ drive at max RPMs(though it is better than the Hitachi and T/S), but when reading the game the BenQ is VERY QUIET in comparison. It all boils down to which noise you're more comfortable with.
Sounds promising. Nice that the PS3 is quiet due to the sloth-like Blu Ray while sacrificing transfer times, but the new 360 drive looks like it will compare well with the PS3's noise levels while increasing it's advantage in speed even more.

Noise was the primary fault I've found with the original 360.

Just for completion's sake, where was that quote from?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 6, 2007, 7:08 pm

Animalor wrote:
Just for completion's sake, where was that quote from?

It was from the xboxscene forums. That's why I said it "sounded promising" as there's no hard data yet.

The thread is linked from the article on the front page of xbox-scene:

http://www.xbox-scene.com/

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » February 6, 2007, 9:01 pm

The controllers only ever have to be synced in two instances: Upgrading firmware and the first time you set up a controller. The PS3 also supports up to seven controllers at once, along with full backward compatability to older controllers, if you buy the 15$ adapter. It is also worth noting that you can emulate analog mode for old PS1 games and the memory card emulator will let you swap cards on the fly. It won't emulate a PS2 HD at this time for games like FFO or Metal Storm, but it will apparently allow you to attach a USB hard drive to it to move data.

Thus far, I have chalked up about 120 hours of playtime on the PS3 and I had to switch to another controller at around the 80 hour mark, if I recall correctly. The 360 battery pack seems to have a simliar lifespan. At the moment, I prefer the PS3 controller, because its extremely light, unlike either the Wii or 360. The 360 would get the nod for second, as it matches the precision of the PS3 controller and doesn't make me want to gnaw my own hands off in frustration like the old Xbox one.

FYI Kyou, Resistance is an excellent game if you are into shooters (I am not so much), but I am basically waiting for the first round of RPGs to come out while playing some PS2 stuff on it. My opinion will be a little more settled once I have a chance to tackle Blue Dragon on the 360 and the first Square release on the PS3, as I think this is the best chance to see what talented people can do on both systems. A lot of what is out there at the moment on either system is not very inventive, which is why the Wii is doing so well at the moment. If trends continue, though, I think in a year the local fanboy patrol will be back to gaying up the current events forums. I really wish they would have their little circle jerk session in the actual 360 threads, but apparently no one was interested enough to read those......

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 6, 2007, 9:27 pm

Jice Virago wrote:If trends continue, though, I think in a year the local fanboy patrol will be back to gaying up the current events forums.

What trends are those that need to continue? I don't see anything trending in the PS3's favor atm. If you're waiting for the first Square Enix game on the PS3 to evaluate the PS3 as you mentioned above, we'll see you in 2008 sometime with your evaluation. You can skip 2007 as you did with 2006 with the PS3. FFXIII isn't even mentioned among the 2007 releases anymore in recent articles. It will be a pleasant surprise if it makes it out within a year. The last article I read suggested that Killzone 2 would be the PS3's "killer" game to go head to head with Halo 3 this November.

Sad that the PS3 hangs on a single game for the most part now with Square Enix not exactly leaning toward exclusive rights anymore. Square Enix is probably chomping at the bit to create a Final Fantasy game for the easier to develop for 360. I would love to see FF on the 360. Hope it happens. Never say never. Sony doesn't want to lock up exclusive contracts it seems.

Hopefully FFXIII turns out ok. It looks like Square Enix is going with the Unreal 3 engine after that. Guess the XIII White engine isn't all that:

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=22380

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » February 6, 2007, 10:11 pm

If the FF series moves to XB then I will definitely get an XBox over a PS3. Other than that I currently have little reason to buy either.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » February 7, 2007, 3:17 am

What Trends?

Ok, let me preface this by saying the following, so my position is not misunderstood here: I firmly believe that the vast majority of the public are morons, ESPECIALLY the consumer public. Now, you Winnow, are most likely not a moron. You are a parroting self serving boorish hypocritical borderline sociopathic prick, but you are not a moron. I firmly believe that you show up in threads being an obstenant ass purely to stir up the shit pot of drama that you probably still crave from your EQ days and this board gives you an outlet to spew shit so rediculous that even you can't possibly be believing what you are saying. (Funk, however is a moron) But whether you are a moron or not does not change the fact that most of the people on this fucking planet are borderline retarded. Now given that 99% of people are morons, I could give a shit about the majority opinion on ANYTHING, especially as it pertains to my leisure time. So, whichever console happens to be selling the most at the moment is not, nessecarily, the best console.

Now, if figures are to be believed, the PS3 is exceeding the 360 console sales at the same point in its release life (with next to no games out for it) and blue-ray has overtaken the toshiba standard. I could give a shit about whatever is selling the most, beyond that it means the console will be around a while and recieve some support. I reserve an equal amount of apathy to your fanboy site rregurgitations with no real facts to back them up, especially the little cut/paste jobs from shill sites. Fact of the matter is, I own all three consoles and have had hands on experience with each one to form my opinion. I firmly stand by my views on everything I have said about all three consoles and I can unlike you and Funk) back up my assertations with personal experience.

It is also a fact that, despite your vapid claims that one title drives the PS3 (or even one company, with Square), the entire genre of RPGs has consistantly outsold all other genres of games combined, even shooters. They are story driven and appeal to a wider audience. They have more replay value and give far more playtime than any action oriented title. Rereleases of old PGs on the DS are outselling major 360 (and PS3) titles. A new release RPG for the PS2 is outselling the top 360 games by a wide margine world wide. NEither the 360 or the original XBox have had breakout successes with RPGs, though arguably Oblivion and JAde Emire were top rung games in the genre. Sony basically has a tighter lock on the genre than Xbox has on shooter games, and the Wii has the party game genre locked up.

So what trends am I talking about? Microsoft has done jack shit to break out of the testosterone demographic. They could continue down the RTS route, which they have a good start with Viva Piniata, but their whole release schedule is nothing but Sports, Shooters, and one token RPG that they payed out the ass to get exclusive on their console. The PS3 has more RPG games comming out than the 360 has entire genres of games. Oh, and they have action games as well. Their driving games, in particular, just crush the 360 visually. The pressure is on MS to break the cycle, not Sony, and they have about a year before real titles start comming out for the PS3. Speaking as someone who has all three consoles (and owned a Turbographix16 and whos wife had a Dreamcast), I can see the writing on the wall, and it says that in all likelyhood, after I am done playing Blue Dragon, I probably won't ever lay a finger on my 360 ever again.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » February 7, 2007, 11:58 am

Jice Virago wrote:What Trends?

Ok, let me preface this by saying the following, so my position is not misunderstood here: I firmly believe that the vast majority of the public are morons, ESPECIALLY the consumer public. Now, you Winnow, are most likely not a moron. You are a parroting self serving boorish hypocritical borderline sociopathic prick, but you are not a moron. I firmly believe that you show up in threads being an obstenant ass purely to stir up the shit pot of drama that you probably still crave from your EQ days and this board gives you an outlet to spew shit so rediculous that even you can't possibly be believing what you are saying. (Funk, however is a moron) But whether you are a moron or not does not change the fact that most of the people on this fucking planet are borderline retarded. Now given that 99% of people are morons, I could give a shit about the majority opinion on ANYTHING, especially as it pertains to my leisure time. So, whichever console happens to be selling the most at the moment is not, nessecarily, the best console.

Now, if figures are to be believed, the PS3 is exceeding the 360 console sales at the same point in its release life (with next to no games out for it) and blue-ray has overtaken the toshiba standard. I could give a shit about whatever is selling the most, beyond that it means the console will be around a while and recieve some support. I reserve an equal amount of apathy to your fanboy site rregurgitations with no real facts to back them up, especially the little cut/paste jobs from shill sites. Fact of the matter is, I own all three consoles and have had hands on experience with each one to form my opinion. I firmly stand by my views on everything I have said about all three consoles and I can unlike you and Funk) back up my assertations with personal experience.

It is also a fact that, despite your vapid claims that one title drives the PS3 (or even one company, with Square), the entire genre of RPGs has consistantly outsold all other genres of games combined, even shooters. They are story driven and appeal to a wider audience. They have more replay value and give far more playtime than any action oriented title. Rereleases of old PGs on the DS are outselling major 360 (and PS3) titles. A new release RPG for the PS2 is outselling the top 360 games by a wide margine world wide. NEither the 360 or the original XBox have had breakout successes with RPGs, though arguably Oblivion and JAde Emire were top rung games in the genre. Sony basically has a tighter lock on the genre than Xbox has on shooter games, and the Wii has the party game genre locked up.

So what trends am I talking about? Microsoft has done jack shit to break out of the testosterone demographic. They could continue down the RTS route, which they have a good start with Viva Piniata, but their whole release schedule is nothing but Sports, Shooters, and one token RPG that they payed out the ass to get exclusive on their console. The PS3 has more RPG games comming out than the 360 has entire genres of games. Oh, and they have action games as well. Their driving games, in particular, just crush the 360 visually. The pressure is on MS to break the cycle, not Sony, and they have about a year before real titles start comming out for the PS3. Speaking as someone who has all three consoles (and owned a Turbographix16 and whos wife had a Dreamcast), I can see the writing on the wall, and it says that in all likelyhood, after I am done playing Blue Dragon, I probably won't ever lay a finger on my 360 ever again.

I just want to let you know that my feelings are crushed.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » February 7, 2007, 12:23 pm

Well, I am sorry then. Perhaps I can make it up to you.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » February 7, 2007, 12:24 pm

Jice Virago wrote:What Trends?

Ok, let me preface this by saying the following, so my position is not misunderstood here: I firmly believe that the vast majority of the public are morons, ESPECIALLY the consumer public. Now, you Winnow, are most likely not a moron. You are a parroting self serving boorish hypocritical borderline sociopathic prick, but you are not a moron. I firmly believe that you show up in threads being an obstenant...

That's the end of what I read. If you want to try to paint a picture of a world full of morons, at least spellchek [teehee] what you post.

obstinate

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 7, 2007, 1:40 pm

Jice,

I don't think the PS3 has the lock on RPGs that you think it does. I also believe there is a shortsightedness in observing trends in the gaming console industry. There's a whole new learning curve developing for the PS3 which is proving to be difficult. You aren't going to see RPGs being pumped out left and right for the PS3.

The trend I see is developers wanting an easier platform to develop for along with the ability to port easily to the PC as well to take advantage of the biggest gaming platform of them all. Microsoft is doing everything it can to support and improve their software development cycles, online gaming network, and Live Anywhere cross platform integration. They are aggressively pursuing game developers doing whatever they can to get previously exclusive games for the Playstation onto the 360. "If you build and excellent infrastructure, they will come". That's the philosophy I see Microsoft pursuing with their Xbox and PC gaming platforms.

Sony wasn't always the king of consoles and although, as you say, the general population is a bunch of lemmings, if you look at the console gaming industry like a stock chart with exponential moving averages, you'll see the trend moving toward the 360. Even lemmings will eventually, slowly change their ways. Simply put, all bickering over platform hardware advantages and disadvantages aside, Microsoft is making the right moves, not just for the present, but for the long term.

EDIT: Another example of a dual platform game being better on the 360:

Virtua Tennis 3 To Be First 1080p Xbox 360 Game

Virtua Tennis 3 To Be First 1080p Xbox 360 Game Sega has revealed new details concerning Virtua Tennis 3, currently in development by Sumo Digital (OutRun 2006: Coast 2 Coast), specifically noting that the Xbox 360 version will support 1080p resolution, a first for the console, as well as a Xbox Live spectator mode.

While games released for the Xbox 360 have up until now supported 1080i resolution, today's information from Sega marks the first time a title has been confirmed for the console to include native 1080p support. Microsoft previously announced support for native 1080p games and movies in its October 2006 Xbox Live update.

In addition, Sega officials further noted that the upcoming sports title will feature support for ranked matches over Xbox Live, as well as the ability to participate in exhibition games online for both singles and doubles. Virtua Tennis 3 will also feature an online spectator mode, similar to what was implemented within Bizarre Creations' Project Gotham 3, allowing players to watch ranked matches over Xbox Live.

“Virtua Tennis 3 on Xbox 360 is definitely the next generation of tennis,” commented Matt Woodley, creative director of Sega. “We’re striving to create games which not only have great gameplay but also can make the very most of the Xbox 360’s amazing technology.”

“We’re thrilled to be able to say that Virtua Tennis 3 will be coming to Xbox 360, showcasing an online experience with Xbox Live that you won’t find on any other systems and spectacular 1080p graphics,” said George Peckham, general manager, global third party publishing for the Interactive Entertainment Business, Microsoft. “Fun and easy to pick up and play, Sega is hitting another ace with Virtua Tennis 3.”

[UPDATE: In speaking with a Sega representative, the company confirmed that online support will be specific to the Xbox 360, while the PlayStation 3 version will include added support for the PS3 controller's tilt functionality in lieu of being able to play online. Both versions, however, will include support for 1080p resolution.

six axis support vs online play. lol

Ryuda_69 · Post by **Ryuda_69** » February 7, 2007, 3:39 pm

Just out of curiousity... how would i know which xbox 360 is the new "cooler running" model. Anything particular i have to look at? Like say a serial/model number?

Thanks~

Post by **Sylvus** » February 7, 2007, 3:44 pm

I still think that people should stop gaying up "The OFFICIAL PS3 THREAD" with xbox stuff. Why not start a thread called "360 > PS3" and post all this nonsense in there? Of course, you probably should have just done that 6 pages ago, but whatever!

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » February 7, 2007, 3:51 pm

Sylvus wrote:I still think that people should stop gaying up "The OFFICIAL PS3 THREAD" with xbox stuff. Why not start a thread called "360 > PS3" and post all this nonsense in there? Of course, you probably should have just done that 6 pages ago, but whatever!

That thread would consist of Winnow and Funk giving each other the grab ass, with the occasional Miir invasion and Boogaz spell check.

miir · Post by **miir** » February 7, 2007, 3:58 pm

Why not start a thread called "360 > PS3" and post all this nonsense in there?

Fucking 360 fanboy!

Ryuda_69 · Post by **Ryuda_69** » February 7, 2007, 4:06 pm

And another thing... as informative and hilarious as this thread has been for me over the past weeks... i now ask, is it really that big of a deal to argue over sales figures/tech specs etc?

Personally, i think the 360 is great with OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of the games it has atm (although i dont see any system sellers past halo 3). The Wii is fun as hell and really adds to saturday night drinking debauchery (but on a personal lvl it will probably get old at some point). As for the PS3 (with the exception of Resistance FOM) it continues to look more and more like an overpriced panini press.

Each system has it's good points as well as it's flaws, but in the end we're the ones that end up winning regardless of what a console has over another in terms of specs etc. Companies can fight over this, that, and the third... but in the end we're the ones that get to enjoy the diversity of games that each console will offer in the near future.

I'm definitely looking forward to all the different games/exclusives on each console... so i'm not worried about who will be on top. I want to play halo 3... i want to play ffxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx2830849328094, i want to play (insert XYZ wii game here).

However, as i stated above... this thread has been a fun read for me, so carry on

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 7, 2007, 4:51 pm

The 360 vs PS3 originated due to the lemming like mentality of several members of this board that just assumed Sony would rule the world forever in gaming consoles and that the PS3 was king before it was even designed. I disagreed and have enjoyed the ongoing "debate". I figured people would eventually choose to forget why it started but that's OK. : )

It's not much trouble at all and is highly entertaining. It appears people still seem convinced the PS3 is the better platform by default and just keep extending their projections as to when everything will come together for it. It was one year, now maybe sometime mid 2008. Until then, it's useful for everyone to point out the positives and negatives of each system for the benefit of the VV community so they can make informed choices. There are quite a few out there that haven't purchased a "next gen" system yet. I know I appreciate all the great PS3 info people have provided here.

You shouldn't make any decisions based solely on what I say and you shouldn't buy anything based on what kyoukan says unless it's about snow shovels or in Jice's case, how to get good skins tones when painting miniature figures. Just don't take things too seriously. I don't. Due diligence!

Ryuda_69 wrote:Just out of curiousity... how would i know which xbox 360 is the new "cooler running" model. Anything particular i have to look at? Like say a serial/model number?

Thanks~

There's no way to know from an unopened box. The new DVD tray style is the same as the Philips but is grey in color. Manufacture date must be Nov 2006 or later it seems though so that might help with an unopened box to give you a better chance.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » February 7, 2007, 6:46 pm

Winnow wrote:You shouldn't make any decisions based solely on what I say and you shouldn't buy anything based on what kyoukan says unless it's about snow shovels or in Jice's case, how to get good skins tones when painting miniature figures. Just don't take things too seriously. I don't. Due diligence!

Ryuda_69 wrote:
Just out of curiousity... how would i know which xbox 360 is the new "cooler running" model. Anything particular i have to look at? Like say a serial/model number?

Thanks~

There's no way to know from an unopened box. The new DVD tray style is the same as the Philips but is grey in color. Manufacture date must be Nov 2006 or later it seems though so that might help with an unopened box to give you a better chance.

About the unopenned box thing:
Expect to get fucked by every game store that wants to unload their stock of the old drive. Buyer beware.

On opinions:
Well, as far as I know Kyo and I are the only two people in this thread who actually have all three machines, have played games on them, and have actually made objective observations (good and bad) about all three. Our opinions might be biased, but its more of a genre preference issue than anything to do with brand association. Fact of the matter is, I pretty much hate Sony (EQ1 and having to service their shitty monitors), but I love RPGs. I already own all three consoles, so I have no vested interest in bashing any of them, though I am well prepared to take all three companies to the mat if they fuck things up.

Sony has already fucked up their launch, both in tying Blu-Ray to the PS3 and in not having enough units to meet demand at release (which was REALLY inexcusable after seeing how that went for MS). They were number one comming into this round, so they had the most room for error, but they also have the most to lose if they fail to deliver some things within a year. First, they have to have their usual multi-genre lineup out and polished by no later than next fall. The 360 had at least a half dozen worthwhile shooters a year out the door, so they need to at least match that. Second, they need to keep the RPG crowd locked down, which only requires them to maintain their backwards combatability updates and to lick square's balls, basically.

Nintendo needs to stop using the fucking wiimote for every innane god damn thing in every game. Its cute and innovative, but its being overdone in a hurry. Its no-where near as precise as a regular controller. For party games, sloppy control is perfectly acceptable. For single player action games, its an excercise in frustration. Nintendo also could benefit from a solid RPG, possibly even just another paper mario game.

The 360 needs to get universal backward compatability done so all of us who bought the old console don't feel like fucking chumps. The Wii and PS3 have it; MS needs to have it too. They also need to dump the idea of a non-hard drive unit to free developers hands a bit. Finally, they need to do something OTHER than a fucking shooter. Oblivion is the closest thing to a major RPG they have ever had, but I do not believe they can break the dominance of the PS3 in that area any more than they can dent Nintendo's control over platformer games. After seeing Viva Piniata, I think that they should press the RTS genre, with real mouse support. Its something that no console has really done well before and the current 360 fan base would likely buy into it, so its a low risk venue for them. The fact that the 360 is basically just a glorified PC would make ports of existing RTS simple and the Live shit already in place would make getting matchups of similar skill an easy affair. I mean, christ, they already basically own one major RTS franchise on the PC platform. Oh, and lastly, give up on the fucking media center shit and DRM crap; people don't want their game console to be a DVR, especially one with a tiny hard drive, any more than they wanted Blu-Ray with their PS3. ITs effort that could go into other areas.

Bottom line, though: If I were a betting man, my money would be on PS3 and Wii fighting it out for first and the 360 being a distant third, content to simply tread water with the shooter crowd.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 7, 2007, 7:13 pm

Jice Virago wrote:Bottom line, though: If I were a betting man, my money would be on PS3 and Wii fighting it out for first and the 360 being a distant third, content to simply tread water with the shooter crowd.

I don't think they're treading water with shooters. I'm a big fan of RPGs as well but the trend I see is Japanese game makers moving toward western style shooters and using western developed game engines (Unreal 3). All is not peachy over in Japan.

Another take on things:

Japan's inward game development woes

Posted Feb 6th 2007 12:30PM by Dustin Burg

In an interview over at the Lost Planet Community blog, Lost Planet's very own producer Jun Takeuchi talks about how game development in Japan has changed ... for the worse. He's referring to how Japan's video game developers have isolated themselves, refusing to cater to the western audience, and ultimately using once big franchises as a crutch. Takeuchi goes on to say "western developers borrowed and learned from Japanese developers all those years when Japan was ahead" and that now "Japanese developers need to learn from western developers". He goes on to say that Capcom is already trying to adapt to a more worldly view, looking at games as an all encompassing form of entertainment.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » February 7, 2007, 7:54 pm

Even if one were to take Square's main rival at face value over his criticisms of their philosophies, its not relavent to the topic of discussion. It has nothing to do with the merrits of the systems and there have been plenty of successful RPGs of western origin over the last two decades. In fact, before Black Isle started fucking up every single intellectual property it laid its hands on, the western RPGs were arguably better lately, if compared all platforms (including PC) collectively. However, with the exception of Oblivion and KOTOR1, all the successful ones were either PC or PS2 titles and even those two were PC games, as well. Jade Empire was an excellent game, but MS did little to promote it and eventually even bioware pulled out support on the game.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » February 7, 2007, 10:36 pm

Winnow wrote:The 360 vs PS3 originated due to the lemming like mentality of several members of this board that just assumed Sony would rule the world forever in gaming consoles and that the PS3 was king before it was even designed.

no, it started with you, on page fucking 1 with your god awful FUCKING TIRED ASS console penis envy.

noel · Post by **noel** » February 7, 2007, 10:44 pm

Sylvus wrote:I still think that people should stop gaying up "The OFFICIAL PS3 THREAD" with xbox stuff. Why not start a thread called "360 > PS3" and post all this nonsense in there? Of course, you probably should have just done that 6 pages ago, but whatever!

I'd be MORE than happy to enforce that.

As it is, you can't have a fucking thread about a game on either console without idiots from the 'opposing console faction' puking all over it.

Say the word.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 7, 2007, 11:20 pm

kyoukan wrote:
Winnow wrote:The 360 vs PS3 originated due to the lemming like mentality of several members of this board that just assumed Sony would rule the world forever in gaming consoles and that the PS3 was king before it was even designed.
no, it started with you, on page fucking 1 with your god awful FUCKING TIRED ASS console penis envy.

Yeah, since we've been discussing these consoles long before any of them were available to be envious of. It started with your dumbass proclaiming Sony the console god of the universe with zero thought put into it and just banking on the past like most idiots will do when they lack the skill to look deeper than a sales figure.

There's nothing to envy atm concerning a PS3. When there is, I'll own one. Right now, that looks like sometime in 2008 at the earliest.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » February 8, 2007, 2:05 am

edit. changed my mind.

I'm just not going to read this thread, or those similar to it, anymore.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » February 8, 2007, 11:32 am

noel wrote:
Sylvus wrote:I still think that people should stop gaying up "The OFFICIAL PS3 THREAD" with xbox stuff. Why not start a thread called "360 > PS3" and post all this nonsense in there? Of course, you probably should have just done that 6 pages ago, but whatever!
I'd be MORE than happy to enforce that.

As it is, you can't have a fucking thread about a game on either console without idiots from the 'opposing console faction' puking all over it.

Say the word.

I made the new thread, start enforcing sir Noel!

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » February 8, 2007, 11:58 am

We don't need any nazi moderation, thanks!

Although I guess you could start by deleting that lame poll thread.

Post by **Sylvus** » February 8, 2007, 11:59 am

Winnow wrote:It started with your dumbass proclaiming Sony the console god of the universe with zero thought put into it and just banking on the past like most idiots will do when they lack the skill to look deeper than a sales figure.

It started with you trolling this thread 3 or 4 times before someone took the bait. Read the first page again. It started out with people talking about whether anyone had gotten one, or tried to get one. You came in like 5 posts into it trying to derail it, and had succeeded by like 20 or 30 posts into it.

Everyone gets that you hate Apple and Sony (at least their video game division). Not only do you post it in every Apple or Sony thread, it spills out into other completely unrelated threads. It's kind of sad that you can't have a thread about people's experience with video games with it getting faggoted up with propaganda.

I was looking forward to reading this thread for people's opinions on a console that they had and whether they liked it or not. I have a 360 and a Wii and have considered getting a PS3. Instead it's all people waving their cocks around about how many copies Sony or MS did or didn't sell in Japan. Who gives a fat rats ass? How does that have any bearing on the topic at hand?

Before you try to say that you're trying to prove a trend or some nonsense like that, that's not helpful. If I were looking for trends, I have experience with google, or I could post a topic asking about that. I come here for the anecdotal experience of people that post on these boards. People that have the one thing in common that we all enjoyed the same game for a long period of time. You're quite helpful in some areas, but in this one you haven't even played the fucking thing so why not just shut up and move to another thread? We get it. You hate the PS3. It's unnecessary to come here and quote every article posted on xboxscene.com.

Post by **Sylvus** » February 8, 2007, 12:04 pm

noel wrote:
Sylvus wrote:I still think that people should stop gaying up "The OFFICIAL PS3 THREAD" with xbox stuff. Why not start a thread called "360 > PS3" and post all this nonsense in there? Of course, you probably should have just done that 6 pages ago, but whatever!
I'd be MORE than happy to enforce that.

As it is, you can't have a fucking thread about a game on either console without idiots from the 'opposing console faction' puking all over it.

Say the word.

Eh, I'd enforce it if it were that important. It's not, I'd just like people not to be total douchebags in threads or forums that don't warrant it. It's not a discussion about politics, it's not even a personal attack (which would be better), it's a discussion about preferred recreational activities.

Some gentlemen prefer blondes, some brunettes, some redheads. To try and convince someone that blondes are better is an excercise in asinine futility. Personally, I'd like all three, thanks.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » February 8, 2007, 12:13 pm

I guess I don't understand why Winnow cares if I or anyone else here buys a gaming system, it's our money not his.

noel · Post by **noel** » February 8, 2007, 12:16 pm

I'm not talking about Nazi moderation. I'm talking about something similar to the sports forum.

My main gripe is that if someone posts a thread about say, GRAW2 and I go to read it, rather than read about GRAW2, I get to read about X-box Live vs. whatever Sony's competing service is called.

If people wanna have threads where they spend days and hours debating one console vs. another, more power to them, but if every console related thread goes straight to that then there's really no point in reading console related threads in this forum.

miir · Post by **miir** » February 8, 2007, 12:30 pm

It started with you trolling this thread 3 or 4 times before someone took the bait. Read the first page again. It started out with people talking about whether anyone had gotten one, or tried to get one. You came in like 5 posts into it trying to derail it, and had succeeded by like 20 or 30 posts into it.

I was originally hoping this would be an acutal PS3 thread... but after 2-3 pages of Winnows relentless trolling I just gave up.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 8, 2007, 1:53 pm

Sylvus wrote:
Winnow wrote:It started with your dumbass proclaiming Sony the console god of the universe with zero thought put into it and just banking on the past like most idiots will do when they lack the skill to look deeper than a sales figure.
It started with you trolling this thread 3 or 4 times before someone took the bait. Read the first page again. It started out with people talking about whether anyone had gotten one, or tried to get one. You came in like 5 posts into it trying to derail it, and had succeeded by like 20 or 30 posts into it.

Sure, this thread started out that way but with lots of help from others and not even initially by me. The entire debate that's been going on for years didn't start in this thread.

Moderate if you wish. I've provided PS3 news on a PS3 thread while offering up comparisons to the competition. I may have the most posts in this thread but I'm certainly far from the only one offering up a dissenting viewpoint or just providing news. It's no secret that 90% of the news has been bad for the PS3 over the past few months and there's also mis perceptions a-plenty. I'm sure that will balance out a bit as the months go on.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » February 8, 2007, 2:10 pm

If looking for a new PS3 game might want to pass on Sonic:

Sonic the Hedgehog is a mess. While there are a few glimmers of hope early on when players take control of Silver and his cool telekinesis ability, it's quickly realized that the game's design never really capitalizes on it. The remaining character situations (Shadow's vehicle segments and Sonic's traditional platforming) aren't anywhere near as interesting as Silver's, and the whole game has a forced and generic feel to it. Once you sauté that winning formula with a rack full of technical problems you end up with one hell of a disappointing game.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/762/762185p1.html

miir · Post by **miir** » February 8, 2007, 2:27 pm

Winnow wrote:
Sylvus wrote:
Winnow wrote:It started with your dumbass proclaiming Sony the console god of the universe with zero thought put into it and just banking on the past like most idiots will do when they lack the skill to look deeper than a sales figure.
It started with you trolling this thread 3 or 4 times before someone took the bait. Read the first page again. It started out with people talking about whether anyone had gotten one, or tried to get one. You came in like 5 posts into it trying to derail it, and had succeeded by like 20 or 30 posts into it.
Sure, this thread started out that way but with lots of help from others and not even initially by me. The entire debate that's been going on for years didn't start in this thread.

Moderate if you wish. I've provided PS3 news on a PS3 thread while offering up comparisons to the competition. I may have the most posts in this thread but I'm certainly far from the only one offering up a dissenting viewpoint or just providing news. It's no secret that 90% of the news has been bad for the PS3 over the past few months and there's also mis perceptions a-plenty. I'm sure that will balance out a bit as the months go on.

Good grief, you're just fucking deluded.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » February 8, 2007, 2:48 pm

I wouldn't be against some of the shit getting trimmed off this thread. and starting another thread on media coverage of the 3 platforms where people could flame each other to their heart's content.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » February 8, 2007, 3:06 pm

If they could make an FF type game for the Wii with the ability to link macros to certain gentures, I'd be totally sold on the wiimote.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 8, 2007, 4:55 pm

some PS3/360 related news for our Aussie readers!

http://www.gamersreports.com/news/4966/ ... -official/

2007/02/07 6:18:13: Posted by vividbreeze

Just yesterday our inside source gave us a tip that Microsoft Australia has told a store named Myer to prepare the store for a Black 360 with a 120GB hard drive in April. Well day 2 of product knowledge today (Brisbane, Australia) featured Microsoft themselves and it's now 100% official that the Black 360, (with black controller), 120gb hard drive and HDMI is due out in Australia for $749 AU in April. They will try to push this forward to late March to deter buyers from the March 23 PS3 launch. Hopefully we see this good news sometime in Europe and USA.

If this turns out to be accurate, hopefully that means 120GB HD upgrades will be out soon for existing 360s as well. At some point Microsoft is going to make the upgrades so this sounds like a reasonable time frame although I wonder if the new cooler CPUs are ready and planned for this (if true).

miir · Post by **miir** » February 8, 2007, 5:04 pm

What the fuck does that have to do with the PS3?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 8, 2007, 5:16 pm

miir wrote:What the fuck does that have to do with the PS3?

they will try to push this forward to late March to deter buyers from the March 23 PS3 launch

Unlike your views on Vanguard not needing more subcriptions to be successful, in the console wars, the more units sold the better. Perhaps Sony will offer some incentive to Aussie buyers in light of the upgraded 360 offering unless the PS3 is selling out from demand and none are left on the shelves.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » February 8, 2007, 5:29 pm

Winnow, you are the new Searyx of VV.

Oh, and the new black Xbox is actually more expensive than the fucking PS3 and still manages to not have integrated wireless?