Interesting stuff about food in America

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 6, 2007, 10:40 pm

Americans get food cheap!

Food For Thought!

Times ARE tough:

* Of Americas 2 million farms, 75% generate minimal or negative incomes. Some 61 percent report an income of $20,000 or less
* AND farmers are scrutinized by the media, criticized by environmentalists, confronted with new and expensive governmental regulations.
* We remain one of the few industries in the world that can't control its own prices.
* Our industry is experiencing record market lows in prices as we find ourselves caught in the grips of one of the most challenging farm economies in the nation's history!
* Last fall here in NC, Hurricane Floyd turned this already at- risk industry upside down.

Survey said:

Here's something else to chew on. Thanks to our survey we now know that North Carolinians believe that we pay a greater percentage of our expendable income on food than folks in any other country.

Folks we pay about 11% of our expendable income for food - the lowest percentage of any country in the world. Japan pays almost 18 %, India over 50%. To bring those numbers home...lets go shopping:

* a gallon of milk
* a dozen eggs
* a pound of cheddar cheese
* a 2-lb sirloin steak, and
* and a 2-lb bag of apples will cost you about $19.00 in the US.

Those same items in Tokyo, Japan will cost you $74.00, with your MVP or VIC cards!

Here's another way we can look at this: by February 9 of each year the average American family has made enough money to buy all the food we'll need for the entire year. But it takes us--on the average--until May 9 to earn enough to pay our taxes.

Friends, we spent more money on the cars we drive than we do on our annual food bill. We spend more money in this country annually on communications than we do on food. I have no statistics on how many accidents were caused by talking on cell phones as we drove here today, but regardless of the deal we got on our per minute rates...it wasn't as good a buy as today's luncheon.

And yes, there are NO FREE LUNCHES but the price is RIGHT! Here's what farmers are paid for food that may well be on today's menu:

* pork - 31 cents per lb.
* chicken - 36 cents per lb.
* corn - $2.15 per bushel--thats $2.15 for 50 pounds
* potatoes - $5.65 per hundred weight
* milk - $1.16 per gallon
* beef - 54 cents per pound to the farmer

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » February 6, 2007, 11:35 pm

Isnt this where subsidies comes in?

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » February 7, 2007, 12:17 am

* a gallon of milk
* a dozen eggs
* a pound of cheddar cheese
* a 2-lb sirloin steak, and
* and a 2-lb bag of apples will cost you about $19.00 in the US.

Those same items in Tokyo, Japan will cost you $74.00, with your MVP or VIC cards!

19 bucks? If you buy crap maybe, just because our standards suck and there is an exchange rate from hell... ohh nevermind

Truant · Post by **Truant** » February 7, 2007, 12:27 am

Sionistic wrote:Isnt this where subsidies comes in?

Don't take this as a dig, because it's not in the slightest. But it really is unfortunate that the general population honestly believes that subsidies help farmers. The original concept was to of course help farmers, when it was implemented over 70 years ago. Since then it has been corrupted into another way for the rich to get richer, while keeping the poor, poor (or spiraling in debt as our modern economy allows).

From Wikipedia:

In America, critics also argue that agricultural subsidies go mostly to the biggest farms who need subsidization the least. Research from Brian M. Riedl the Heritage Foundation showed that nearly three quarters of subsidy money goes to the top 10% of recipients.[9] Thus, the large farms, which are the most profitable because they have economies of scale, receive the most money. The discrepancy is only widening. Since 1990, payments to large farms have nearly tripled, while payments to small farms have remained constant. [10]. Brian M. Riedl argues that the subsidy money is helping large farms buy out small farms. "Specifically, large farms are using their massive federal subsidies to purchase small farms and consolidate the agriculture industry. As they buy up smaller farms, not only are these large farms able to capitalize further on economies of scale and become more profitable, but they also become eligible for even more federal subsidies--which they can use to buy even more small farms."[11] Critics also note that, in America, over 90% of money goes to staple crops of corn, wheat, soybeans and rice while growers of other crops get shut out completely. In Europe, for instance the Common Agricultural Policy has provisions encourage local varieties and pays out subsidies based upon total acreage and not production. Although, in fairness, research has shown that small farms receive more payments in relation to value of their crops than big farms.[12]

I was taught this at a young age by my grandfather. Who grew up on a farm, and retired to a ranch. Many people in my family were involved in some form of agriculture throughout their lives, and being a young male, I spent a good bit of my summers helping out.

Agriculture in this country is in a bad way, and has been for quite some time. It's damn near impossible to make a profit without massive sized operations. Many years, it's a challenge just to break even for small individual farmers/ranchers.

For an occupation so integral to all of our survival, it's really unfortunate that they get the screw.

Anyways, I'm done. There's a lot more I could say, but I doubt anyone is interested anyways.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » February 7, 2007, 5:04 am

aren't farm subsidies handed out in relation to the amount of crops/livestock produced? is that not a really terrible fucking way of doing it?

and exactly what poll showed the majority of americans think they pay more than any other country for food? how many people did they poll? one stupid person?

Vaemas · Post by **Vaemas** » February 7, 2007, 10:05 am

Don't forget the monies paid to families so they won't produce crops. An ex-GF's parents have land in Tennessee...quite a few acres of flat grassland. They're paid by the Gov't so they won't produce corn or any other crop that might conflict with established farmers in the region.

Not that they have the slightest desire to farm.

Strange.

Al · Post by Al » February 7, 2007, 10:25 am

Friends, we spent more money on the cars we drive than we do on our annual food bill.

Well, gas here is $2.35 a gallon at the cheapest places, and I have to drive 20 miles straight to work, another 20 back home. At 24 mpg (what I get on my daily trip in the summer) that's over $1000 a year... if I only drive straight to and from work. Then bring in the fact that a reasonably priced used car that you can expect to last a reasonable length of time will cost you at least $5000, a new car at least $15,000. Now lets figure a modest $200 in maintenance and maybe a speeding ticket... Yeah, it isn't hard to believe this line at all. If I ate gasoline and broke down I would cost a lot too.

edit: That's not to say farmers in this nation don't get a raw deal. They are the most underappreciated people, and also the most necessary.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · February 7, 2007, 11:16 am

Farmer propaganda.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » February 7, 2007, 12:28 pm

Pherr the Dorf wrote:
* a gallon of milk
* a dozen eggs
* a pound of cheddar cheese
* a 2-lb sirloin steak, and
* and a 2-lb bag of apples will cost you about $19.00 in the US.

Those same items in Tokyo, Japan will cost you $74.00, with your MVP or VIC cards!
19 bucks? If you buy crap maybe, just because our standards suck and there is an exchange rate from hell... ohh nevermind

Jesus, no kidding
you can't get a good 2 lb sirlion for $19, let alone a good cheddar on top of that
maybe they should have picked a few groceries that are as common in tokyo as those 5 products are in the US

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » February 7, 2007, 12:31 pm

I cannot comment on how it works now, but there were farmers in the past that would set up "banks" of farms in name of family in order to qualify for more aid. The larger farmers did not qualify for the same percentage of subsidy for the land as the smaller farmers due, in part, to the fact that they could generally "absorb" more of the losses. The people who set the land up in other people's names would have 20 small farms that qualified for more than 1 large would. The Gigot family in Kansas comes to mind.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 7, 2007, 12:42 pm

Chidoro wrote:
Jesus, no kidding
you can't get a good 2 lb sirlion for $19, let alone a good cheddar on top of that
maybe they should have picked a few groceries that are as common in tokyo as those 5 products are in the US

rice (sweet, spicy, salty, bitter and sour)
whale meat
sushi
mandarin oranges
puffer fish

I think that's all they have over there.

Al · Post by Al » February 7, 2007, 2:01 pm

a 2-lb sirloin steak

I don't know how I missed that the first time... Who the hell eats a 2lb steak and only gets sirloin? Of course, if you eat 2lb steaks on a regular basis, it may be easier on the pocketbook to go with sirloin, as a 2lb Prime Rib would run $40+. That steak would be 3 inches thick! Who can eat that? An American can, that's who!!

Kriista · Post by **Kriista** » February 7, 2007, 2:27 pm

having just immigrated to the UK, i can say that the food prices here are laughably lower than in the US.

I lived in miami FL, and shopped at publix, the large chain supermarket there, here in manchester england, the price of everything, from milk, to cheese, to bread, to meat etc... is all a fraction of what it cost in the US

not to mention better quality

Deward · Post by **Deward** » February 7, 2007, 5:18 pm

I live in the midle of farm country and I can say from direct observation that most of the small farms are gone. They are being bought out or forced out by the big farms. It isn't possible to make a profit on a dairy farm with less than 500 cows when you are competing against farms with 10,000 cows. One good thing is that organics are saving a lot of small farms.

My father-in-law used to grow tobacco 20 years ago and is paid a small stipend not to do so anymore. It amounts to something like $2000/year is all though. He then bred and raised beef cattle but unless you have a great reputation (his cows did), it is very difficult to make any money that way. We are now growing wine grapes and they may be the first farm crop in twenty years that will actually be profitable. A good crop can make about $4000/acre before expenses. There is a really high demand for the grapes right now too. They are a lot of work at harvest and spring though. They have a very short window when they can be picked.

VariaVespasa · Post by **VariaVespasa** » February 7, 2007, 9:18 pm

Kriista wrote:having just immigrated to the UK, i can say that the food prices here are laughably lower than in the US.

I lived in miami FL, and shopped at publix, the large chain supermarket there, here in manchester england, the price of everything, from milk, to cheese, to bread, to meat etc... is all a fraction of what it cost in the US

not to mention better quality

Having lived in both the US and the UK I find that VERY hard to believe. Got some sample prices to back that up?

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » February 7, 2007, 11:13 pm

yeah when I was in the UK, market prices for staples were outrageous compared to Canada/US prices. this was like 5-6 years ago though. they don't charge VAT on grocery store food do they?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 7, 2007, 11:30 pm

Unless things have changed recently, I don't recall cheaper food anywhere in Europe than in the U.S. except when I was behind the (then) Iron Curtain in Czechoslovakia but that was due to the crazy rates on the black market back when U.S. Dollars got you about 6X the official exchange rate.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » February 8, 2007, 1:00 am

What a pack of whinging bitches. Australian farmers do more with less and get fuck all in the way of subsidies compared to American farmers http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/ ... m=storylhs

The difference is, for example, they're still using a 10 year old header (without AC and a fucking MP3 stereo) to crop their land, where as a farmer with 150 acres in the US will have a quarter of a million dollars worth of machinery, and turn it over regularly because the tax system encourages it.

You have probably the best climate/land for farming in the world, and you can't make money at it.... gee.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » February 8, 2007, 2:02 am

Keep in mind that those prices and facts are a bit rusty. That article is at least seven years old.

Where did you find that gem?

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » February 8, 2007, 11:24 am

Winnow wrote:Unless things have changed recently, I don't recall cheaper food anywhere in Europe than in the U.S. except when I was behind the (then) Iron Curtain in Czechoslovakia but that was due to the crazy rates on the black market back when U.S. Dollars got you about 6X the official exchange rate.

In my experience food prices are cheaper in the US by far (compared to other prices/income level) than in Europe. The quality is better in Europe though.. at least in Norway. Way less preservatives.

We actually discussed and compared food at work this morning. It is amazing to see the differences in eating habits, portion sizes, type of foods etc.

Kriista · Post by **Kriista** » February 8, 2007, 12:02 pm

now, ive only been living here a week or so, so im going to a small crosssection

but cheese(fresh mozzarella), is 59p for a big ball of it, in miami, i was paying around 6$ for 3-4 of them, in water, at a publix

ciabotta(sp) bread, 19p each here, in miami, 60c+ or so each

creamcheese, 40p, miami 1$

mushrooms, a large package for 99p, in miami 3$

thats just a few items off hand, all bought either in publix in miami, or in tesco in manchester(salford)

restaurants are also much cheaper, and since tax is included in everything its less math to boot

i had some nice fish/chips/peas at a nice looking pub/restaurant in town, and it cost me exactly 5.39, something like that in miami, at a comprable place would run me easily 10$ + tip

indian takeout, me, my wife, and 2 friends here all eat like fat pigs, with sides, extras, sodas everything, for i tihnk it was under 20quid,

we do know people here who have shown us the cheaper places to shop/eat, but i lived in miami for most of my life, so i know all the comprable inside scoop there

and as a comparison, in miami i was paying 400$ for an effeciency(no kitchen), and thats very rare, and very cheap, here 375 fetches you a 2bedroom, 2story brownstone,
minimum wage in the US and UK are comprable

Al · Post by Al » February 8, 2007, 12:34 pm

Kriista wrote:now, ive only been living here a week or so, so im going to a small crosssection

but cheese(fresh mozzarella), is 59p for a big ball of it, in miami, i was paying around 6$ for 3-4 of them, in water, at a publix

ciabotta(sp) bread, 19p each here, in miami, 60c+ or so each

creamcheese, 40p, miami 1$

mushrooms, a large package for 99p, in miami 3$

thats just a few items off hand, all bought either in publix in miami, or in tesco in manchester(salford)

restaurants are also much cheaper, and since tax is included in everything its less math to boot

i had some nice fish/chips/peas at a nice looking pub/restaurant in town, and it cost me exactly 5.39, something like that in miami, at a comprable place would run me easily 10$ + tip

indian takeout, me, my wife, and 2 friends here all eat like fat pigs, with sides, extras, sodas everything, for i tihnk it was under 20quid,

we do know people here who have shown us the cheaper places to shop/eat, but i lived in miami for most of my life, so i know all the comprable inside scoop there

and as a comparison, in miami i was paying 400$ for an effeciency(no kitchen), and thats very rare, and very cheap, here 375 fetches you a 2bedroom, 2story brownstone,
minimum wage in the US and UK are comprable

I'm a bit confused. 99p couldn't possibly be pounds, but the meal for 5.39, if in pounds, would be slightly more expensive than a $10 meal in the US (tip is something you take on yourself. I don't tip people who don't deserve it, and I am a big tipper when it's deserved.) British pounds are worth almost 2 US dollars as of todays exchange rates.

Kriista · Post by **Kriista** » February 8, 2007, 2:05 pm

yeah, my bad
99p as in pence,

and im going by non converted, as minimum wage in both countries is roughly the same, i was going relatively, but in OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of cases, even when considering conversion, the prices are still cheaper(in the grocery store, this is the case)

also, the place we went to is order at the bar, so theres no 'server' to tip, hence why the exact price

Truant · Post by **Truant** » February 8, 2007, 7:01 pm

I'm not going to comandeer this, because I've already done enough math for today in my fabulous accounting class.

But for those of you in discussion over prices, you missed a few very key words that completely change the meaning.

The crux of the article's argument wasn't that one country spends more than another (strict prices), but that one country spends more, as a percent of their expendable income, than another country.

You're going to have to do some pretty brutal breakdowns to prove that one way or the other.