New OS Driver Support Nostalgia?

noel · Post by **noel** » January 30, 2007, 1:17 pm

Am I just being nostalgic, or is this the first MS OS where the majority of the vendors that provide drivers, utilities, etc. are seriously lagging behind? I know the architecture of Vista has changed from what it was in XP, but I'm kind of surprised that as of today:

Abit - Motherboard utilities are only available in beta by searching through their forum
Logitech - Drivers are still not available, there's been no beta, and no word on when the drivers are coming
NVidia - If you have an 8800 series card, the only thing available for you is a beta (100.54) driver.

I'd post more. I'm sure there are more vendors like this, but these are the ones I'm currently dealing with.

Either:
A) We're making great strides in hardware and software, and Moore's law is spot on for hardware but didn't take the complexity of the software into account
B) The vendors are slacking badly
C) MS didn't get Vista to the vendors with enough time
D) I'm taking crazy pills and it's always been this way

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » January 30, 2007, 1:23 pm

I think it is option D!

I remember having issues with prior OS's, but I cannot remember exactly who I blamed at the time...I think it was Microsoft!

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » January 30, 2007, 1:38 pm

That's why I'm in no rush to either get Vista or a new video card. Why bother when the driver support isn't there. Since it's not my job to know or support up to the minunte technology I don't have a problem waiting 6 months or even a year to install Vista. XP is working just fine for me.

noel · Post by **noel** » January 30, 2007, 1:52 pm

I agree. There's no way in hell I'd install Vista for my parents or people not used to dealing with this stuff.

Ashur · Post by **Ashur** » January 30, 2007, 2:29 pm

D. Crazy Pills - We had major issues with Win95 and then later with XP and "unsigned" driver crap screwing up plans to script things.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 30, 2007, 2:48 pm

I had major concerns about upgrading after experiencing the Vista Beta and not being impressed.

It was a nice surprise to see the final release was such an improvement in stability, etc. The only reason I tried the final was due to my recent PC upgrade, otherwise I'd be of the same opinion as many here in there being no rush to move to Vista.

Perhaps the best way to handle Vista is to upgrade when you are ready for a hardware upgrade as well. You need both to make Vista a pleasant experience.

noel · Post by **noel** » January 30, 2007, 2:52 pm

I agree. I'd also suggest doing an inventory of the hardware you have or plan to have, and frequenting the websites of the hardware vendors for status on drivers, and check the forums to see what problems people are having.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » January 30, 2007, 3:35 pm

it cant be worse than installing debian linux via cd on a machine whose cd-rom uses a scsi interface located on the sound card

of course linux is free too ;p

noel · Post by **noel** » January 30, 2007, 3:47 pm

The thing is, everything works.

Just that the performance is degraded, or all of the features aren't there.

On the Linux topic: Ubuntu is awesome for all your Linux needs. Not sure it would help in the case you described, but it's a really good, stable and friendly Linux. The best part is that the user community is really good at helping people with limited Linux experience.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 30, 2007, 4:12 pm

noel wrote:The thing is, everything works.

Just that the performance is degraded, or all of the features aren't there.

On the Linux topic: Ubuntu is awesome for all your Linux needs. Not sure it would help in the case you described, but it's a really good, stable and friendly Linux. The best part is that the user community is really good at helping people with limited Linux experience.

Im not into Linux at all but people seem to be raving over Beryl 3D desktop effects for linux. Example's here:

http://www.beryl-project.org/features.php

As for Vista degrading performance...are you actually noticing this? Everything seems silky smooth, speedy and stable for me. That's the main reason I'm so impressed with Vista. (for those with 2GB RAM, nice graphics card and fast CPU). I think this "degraded" performance is about as valid an argument as people in a panic over DRM.

noel · Post by **noel** » January 30, 2007, 4:29 pm

I don't think with our systems that performance degradation (if applicable to whatever task we're doing) is the kind of thing that's noticable without a stopwatch or some kind of testing software (3DMark, etc.).

I have no performance issues at all. Some of the tasks might be slightly faster in XP, but again, I'd need a stop watch to say definitively. That's the main reason I posted that PC world article in the other (Which Version of Vista) thread. It basically says that if things are slower they're like 1-2% slower. You're just not going to notice that under normal use.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,12830 ... ticle.html

For games, it's really pretty game specific, but again with a high end system if you're dropping 5 FPS in BF2142, but still at 80FPS who gives a shit? Once the drivers and software are optimized, I expect Vista to be just as fast or faster than XP. Here's a hint: There's not going to be as much dev resources focused on XP moving forward.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 30, 2007, 4:31 pm

Found this interesting:

Microsoft Vista Faster on a Mac Pro Than Apple's Own OS X

http://blog.wired.com/cultofmac/2007/01 ... .html#more

Ironically, one of the fairest reviews of Microsoft's Vista comes from Pete and Leander over at Wired's Cult of Mac blog. They tell us what the Vista experience is like on a Mac Pro using Bootcamp, with much praise.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » January 30, 2007, 4:36 pm

If anything, my cmputer boots up faster in Vista than it doe with XP. Media Center works smoother and is more responsive than under MCE2005.

As far as gaming, I played LOTRO Beta this weekend and there were framerate issues however I believe those were mostly client related as they seemed to happen only when a new character I had not run across was was drawn on my screen and the assets had to be loaded for that particular character. If everything was loaded, framerates were silky smooth (and this issue happened regardless of high quality or low quality graphics).

I'll be re-installing Oblivion tonight and taking a spin through that tonight in Vista.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » January 30, 2007, 4:37 pm

Winnow wrote:Found this interesting:

Microsoft Vista Faster on a Mac Pro Than Apple's Own OS X

http://blog.wired.com/cultofmac/2007/01 ... .html#more

Ironically, one of the fairest reviews of Microsoft's Vista comes from Pete and Leander over at Wired's Cult of Mac blog. They tell us what the Vista experience is like on a Mac Pro using Bootcamp, with much praise.

Were it not that Mac hardware were so expensive and a pain to upgrade, I would probably buy a Mac system to run Windows on a day to day basis.

noel · Post by **noel** » January 30, 2007, 4:44 pm

My gaming experience has been extremely positive with Vista. Frame rates are what you'd expect, and though at times I have to run a game as administrator to get it to run properly, I've got no complaints with speeds, resources, temperatures, frame rate, textures, etc. It's all good.

Actually, my only complaint is that Vista has a new '\User Name\Saved Games\' folder that I wish my legacy games made use of. Also a lot of the Legacy games don't make use of the 'Start\Games' Menu item. Can't wait until everything gets real streamlined and works the way MS intended it to. Everything is really well organized that way. From a user perspective, it allows you to back up one folder and get EVERYTHING. Really well done on MS's part.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » January 30, 2007, 5:02 pm

noel wrote:My gaming experience has been extremely positive with Vista. Frame rates are what you'd expect, and though at times I have to run a game as administrator to get it to run properly, I've got no complaints with speeds, resources, temperatures, frame rate, textures, etc. It's all good.

Actually, my only complaint is that Vista has a new '\User Name\Saved Games\' folder that I wish my legacy games made use of. Also a lot of the Legacy games don't make use of the 'Start\Games' Menu item. Can't wait until everything gets real streamlined and works the way MS intended it to. Everything is really well organized that way. From a user perspective, it allows you to back up one folder and get EVERYTHING. Really well done on MS's part.

That's the granularity that will really help me out on the network administration end of things. I'll be able to capture stuff like the documents, contacts folders as an example and leave the other shit I don't want like picture, music and videos on the local drive where they belong.

noel · Post by **noel** » January 30, 2007, 5:10 pm

One thing I'd like to do is change the default location for Firefox's bookmarks to \user\favorites\

I downloaded last night and I'm getting ready to install. Just got done backing up my data.

Fuck Digital Download. You can't copy the files to either a DVD or a USB key and do the install. Total bullshit. Going out now to grab a copy of V-Ultimate.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » January 30, 2007, 5:44 pm

A couple of Ultimate Extras got posted last night on Windows Update alongside a couple of patches.

Bitlocker and Holdem Poker

noel · Post by **noel** » January 30, 2007, 6:37 pm

Hilarious... as much as MS is pushing people to Ultimate, Circuit City didn't even have it in stock, and Best Buy had like 3 copies... hidden.

Now installing Ultimate - Upgrade

Vista Ultimate Upgrade requires XP to be installed in order to install it. Going to install XP and attempt to format the drive during the Vista install.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 30, 2007, 6:40 pm

Logitech Mouse Setpoint Drivers for Vista out today:

http://www.neowin.net/index.php?act=view&id=37698

My mouse has been working fine but I guess these drivers are tuned for Vista.

noel · Post by **noel** » January 30, 2007, 6:46 pm

Which mouse are you using? With the G7, I find my DPI setting always resets on reboot. I'm unable to setup any of my additional buttons.

The DPI does work, as does the alternate button though neither are configurable.

The G15 was a mess with the media controlling feature only working if the media app was in the foreground, and the media app being forced to the foreground every 30 seconds or so.

Edit: Either way, thanks a lot for posting those. I've been checking their site every days recently. Checked it this morning and was kinda pissed. I've been a pretty loyal Logitech guy and I was disappointed they didn't have the drivers out sooner. It's not like they're a sound card or a video card. Input devices are pretty fucking simple (comparatively) to write a driver for.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 30, 2007, 7:05 pm

I use the G7. I was just praising it's DPI on-the-fly settings in the image/graphics forum earlier today.

I noticed that logging in and out of window would sometimes switch DPI modes but clicking the DPI mouse buttons switched it right back.

noel · Post by **noel** » January 30, 2007, 7:24 pm

Man. Upgrade editions are total bullshit. At this point I'm so fucking pissed at MS. I apologize for being stupid enough to try and be a legitimate user, but what a fucking pain in the ass to get a nice clean install of Vista. Even if you have XP installed, you can't boot from the DVD and wipe it. You have to fucking do the install from within XP.

At this point I'm thinking it would have been better to go with an OEM version.

Dear MS,

When the paying customers are suffering more than the people who pirate your shit, you've failed.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 30, 2007, 7:43 pm

noel wrote:
When the paying customers are suffering more than the people who pirate your shit, you've failed.

I plan to pick up my copy of Vista and sit it on the shelf until I'm forced to use it. The time-stopped Vista is working well. I don't want to screw anything up.

That may be a good strategy for others as well. There might be a way to install the Vista (any) Edition floating around and then change the product key to your valid purchased one. That way you have ease of installation while also using owning and using a valid Vista product key. It was easy enough to change prod keys in XP.

noel · Post by **noel** » January 30, 2007, 7:49 pm

I hope you'll be able to do it. Xo and I were both recently getting prompted to activate. The question in my mind will be how many hoops you'll have to jump through to verify your upgrade status.

I couldn't be more unhappy at the moment. XP (without the SP installed) doesn't identify my correct HD size. I'm having to copy across SP2 (266MB) from my external USB HD with non USB 2.0 speeds because USB 2.0 wasn't in the original XP. Then I'll be able to run my drive size unlocker and resize the drive with Partition expert.

Currently the Ultimate installer is telling me it will be moving my old Windows directory to a Windows.OLD directory but the install isn't IDing the correct drive size, just what's there.

I'm not so much bitching as posting this shit so others know what to expect.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 30, 2007, 7:58 pm

noel wrote:I hope you'll be able to do it. Xo and I were both recently getting prompted to activate. The question in my mind will be how many hoops you'll have to jump through to verify your upgrade status.

That prompt to activate only pops up once every few days or might be linked to rebooting the OS. If you type:

Code: Select all

slmgr -dlv

at the command prompt and you should still see 30 days left before activation required.

noel · Post by **noel** » January 30, 2007, 8:05 pm

Thanks, but now as much as I'm frustrated, I'm also kind of curious how deep this rabbit hole goes.

I just submitted the following to Vista's support feedback site:

I'm totally unhappy with your new upgrade licensing and it's implications during the installation of Vista Ultimate. I've been legitimately purchasing your operating systems for years and I find it a sad state of affairs when it would be 1000 times easier for me to pirate Vista to get a clean install on my PC than have to install XP (and do all that goes along with it) in order to install Vista and then I still can't wipe my drive completely prior to upgrading. I don't WANT a stupid windows.old directory created during the install. I want a clean harddrive with just Vista that I can restore my data to. I've been one of your advocates for some time, but you're making it difficult for me to be an advocate when this is so frustrating. I'm what you might call a power user/early adopter/etc. I don't need my hand held during this process and the upgrade procedure you have in place serves no purpose.

Bear in mind, I love Vista. I've had access to a machine running it for months and I've been very happy with it, and I was looking forward to going out on the 30th and purchasing my own legitimate copy, but this install hoop-jumping is ridiculous, frustrating, annoying. It's totally wrong to me that it's easier to pirate software than purchase it legitimately.

Thanks for listening, please improve this.

noel · Post by **noel** » January 30, 2007, 8:19 pm

Awesome:

I'm going though the upgrade now. here's what I can confirm so far.

The Vista Ultimate Upgrade will NOT install onto a blank hard drive. That is for both the 32-bit and 64-bit versions. What happens is when you try and go past the partitioning section of the install, it says your product key is for upgrades and requires an existing version of windows before being able to upgrade OR Clean install.

You can do the by-pass by NOT entering a product license when prompted, it allows you to complete the install and you receive a 30-day trial activation.

You can NOT activate Vista using the temp key and you can not enter your Retail Upgrade key, Activation fails with error codes.

You can NOT use phone activation, I tried and it states your key is invalid and the phone then hangs up on you... no way to even reach someone to speak to about this... I believe it's because it's trying to activate your 30-day trial key.

While in Vista running on the 30-day trial key, You CAN successfully run the Install again and during this install you can enter your upgrade key, it accepts it and setup continues past the partitioning! I chose to do a clean install, wiping the Vista I just finished loading to make sure I received the cleanest install for my final version.

After Rebooting on Round 2 of installation, I was SUCCESSFULLY able to activate my UPGRADE copy of Windows Vista Ultimate... Confirming the by-pass does work.

I can confirm that the X-fi drivers 2.13 do work fine for Vista Ultimate 64-bit, at least for windows audio at this point, haven't made it to test on games yet

I can confirm that Nvidia 100.54 drivers are working fine at least for Aero and on Vista Ultimate 64-bit, I havn't made it to gaming yet.

I'll post an update as I progress installation, for those who are on the fence.

I have run into 1 issue so far, I have a D-Link DWA-645 PCMCIA Wireless nic and the drivers do not work out of the box, I have no way to connect my system up other then another older D-link PCMCIA 54g card. So I was able to connect using the older card, but there is no way to get the new card working unless I am able to figure out how to have the card physically installed, yet have another method of establishing a connection... still scratching my head how I'm going to do this.

Congrats MS on what seems to be a great product so far, And a big thumbs down on the hoop jumping & time wasting I had to

I scored a 5.0 on overall system performance: (CPU-5.0,MEM-5.2,VID-5.9,GAME-5.8,HDD-5.6)

Overall Install is 2.5 hours not counting any customization or application install other then Nvidia and Creative drivers... I could have at most shaved off 30 minutes by not trying the activiation steps during the first install...

I'll post more information over the next few hours as I go further through the install process and get some apps/games/utils loaded.

Soreali · Post by **Soreali** » January 31, 2007, 12:37 am

Ok couple of questions I'm hoping you guys can help me out with..

Yes, I'm aquiring it using alternate sources *cough* piratebay *cough*.. sorry, just dont have the cash to drop on it right now.

Number one, will the Timestop trick work with 64 bit? or is it only 32?
Also, anyone have any experience with the one click timestoppers?

I know I'm forgetting something that I wanted to know so I'll just post it tomorrow when my brain is functioning..

noel · Post by **noel** » January 31, 2007, 1:29 am

Soreali, I don't know. Sorry.

FYI, the procedure above doesn't work. What kind of works is to do the procedure above, THEN delete the Windows.old directory. That way everything installed is Vista, and there's nothing old on the box.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 31, 2007, 12:56 pm

Here's a You Tube video showing off what Beryl can do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD6BiKnLzck&NR

I thought the linux fans would like to see it.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 31, 2007, 1:45 pm

New vist Realtek drivers for those that have this their audio codec on your MBs

http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/dow ... Down=false

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 31, 2007, 5:17 pm

I haven't looked at this in detail but this is the reported workaround to do a clean install of Vista with an upgrade version:

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5932

Microsoft internal documentation reveals workaround for Vista Upgrade DVDs with no need for a previous version of Windows

Just when everyone thought that all hope was lost when it comes to performing a clean install with a Windows Vista Upgrade DVD, a gleam of light can now be seen at the end of the tunnel. A new workaround proposed by Paul Thurrott (via Microsoft internal documents) has been confirmed to work by DailyTech.

We reported on Monday that Microsoft doesn't perform disc checking anymore during an operating system install. In the past, when performing a clean install, a user could boot from an install CD and insert a disc from a previous version of Windows for upgrade compliance.

Per Microsoft's new licensing requirements for Vista, users are required to install a Windows Vista Upgrade from within Windows XP. When this occurs, the Windows XP license is forfeited and the Windows Vista installation process can take place.

Now, however, this workaround allows users to perform a “clean install.” The process is a bit tedious, but is not hard at all to complete. Users have to perform these simple steps to perform a clean install of Vista without a previous version of Windows installed with an upgrade DVD:

Boot from the Windows Vista Upgrade DVD and start the setup program.

When prompted to enter your product key, DO NOT enter it. Click "Next" and proceed with setup. This will install Windows Vista as a 30-day trial.

When prompted, select the edition of Vista which you have purchased and continue with setup.

Once setup has been completed and you have been brought to the desktop for the first time, run the install program from within Windows Vista.

This time, type in your product key when prompted.

When asked whether to perform an Upgrade or Custom (advanced) install, choose Custom (advanced) to perform a clean install of Vista. Yes, this means that you will have to install Vista for a second time.

Once setup has completed for the second time, you should be able to activate Windows Vista normally. You can also delete the Windows.old directory which contains information from the first Vista install.

There's no telling why Microsoft left this loophole wide open with Windows Vista Upgrade DVDs, but this means that any retail upgrade DVD can be used as a fully functioning full retail copy of Vista.

Sargeras · Post by **Sargeras** » January 31, 2007, 5:40 pm

This is why I'm waiting for SP1

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » January 31, 2007, 5:40 pm

Looks like the same process Noel posted!

cid · Post by **cid** » January 31, 2007, 5:41 pm

I am going to be frurated in a month. I am setting up a new network for the new civic centre here in town. I need to order six more PC's and they will have Vista on them. Dell is no longer putting on XP!!!!

noel · Post by **noel** » January 31, 2007, 10:53 pm

I can confirm that the procedure Winnow posted is the way to go, and yes that's what I ended up doing. I'm actually at a conference in San Diego 'til the end of the week and today I met a high-level Microsoft Federal rep. I explained the situation to him, and he sounded surprised. He told me that they were actually supposed to streamline that, but I explained what was in place, what the workaround was, why the manner in which MS desired it to be done was highly undesirable, and he promised that he'd run that up through his chain of command.

He also knew the account manager from my company that I'm paired with, and he told me to send him an email and he'd get me a copy of Office 2k7 for $65! I was very happy with that.

As an aside, this morning at the very same conference I saw Rudy Gulliani walk by me. He smiled and waved. It was pretty cool, but somehow very surreal.

Fenna · Post by **Fenna** » February 2, 2007, 1:28 pm

I just built a new PC and on a whim picked up the retail Vista Home Premium. I installed it fresh on this brand new build.

Like everyone has said, it's very slick and nice looking. I was immediately disappointed to note that my Gigabyte GA-965G-DS3 install CD wouldn't boot up (couldn't launch in Visat), and so my usual care-free installation of mobo drivers didn't happen.

Vista installed default drivers itself, and they appear to be working. I downloaded the latest audio and chipset drivers from Gigabyte, but I wasn't able to get Vista to install either of them. It liked the ones it had installed. I guess as long as they continue to work (apparently), I'm alright with it.

The Easy Tune 5 application from Gigabyte's site won't run at all, and I was looking forward to trying it out for overclocking my Core 2 Duo 6600. I guess I'll wait on that too.

I'm looking forward to trying out EQ2 on my BFG GeForce 7950 GT, but I'm having digital out issues (can't get a signal through DVI on my Samsung 204B). So far this problem has been the most annoying. I don't think it's related to Vista at all.

Fenna · Post by **Fenna** » February 2, 2007, 4:58 pm

I just made a very disheartening discovery. Apparently there is a known issue with the Samsung 204B models made in China (which they all were after August 2006). They have a bad DVI issue that causes blank screens on many new video cards (my 7950gt included) when going digital. You have to use the adaptor and go VGA.

Samsung doesn't replace it and varies in their customer service response (from "known issue, too bad" to "no idea wtf you're talking about, too bad.")

Worse yet, I just ordered one of these from Newegg for a friend with a 7950gt. Looks like I'm going to have to RMA it too.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 2, 2007, 6:46 pm

Wow, bummer on the Samsung thing Fenna.

I have the DS3 motherboard and it's working great with Vista. I don't use any of the extra utilities that came with it though. I OC'd my CPU directly in the bios settings. That's the recommended way of doing it.

I posted a link to the steps for OC'ing a core duo / DS3 combo someone on this forum. In one of the recent upgrade threads.

Edit: is your DS3 a Rev 2.0? (should be if you got it from New Egg within the last month)

Fenna · Post by **Fenna** » February 2, 2007, 7:18 pm

Edit: is your DS3 a Rev 2.0? (should be if you got it from New Egg within the last month)

You know, I'm not sure! I was looking for that information on the mobo box, and on the board itself, but no where did it mention rev. 2. I assumed I got rev. 1, as Gigabyte's site says "Available Now!" on the rev. 1 but not on the rev. 2.

Yeah, it totally sucks about the Samsung. I found my solution though: Dell had the 2407FPW on sale for $650, and I just ordered it. That's going to be one hell of an upgrade.

I'm going to check out your OC'ing instructions. I've never done it, but from what I've read it's a no-brainer for that CPU.

Oh, btw, I ordered this entire rig, part by part, on your recommendations on this forum. I double-checked user recommendations, but your info was spot-on. Thanks again, Winnow.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 2, 2007, 7:41 pm

Glad it's working for you! You should be able to see Rev 2 on the user guide front page or I think even on the box it came in. I'll find where it says Rev 2 when I get home and let you know.

The reason that's important is due to the bios firmware updates for the motherboard. If you don't have Rev 2, you'll need to update the DS3's bios to the most recent one.

There was an issue with DVD drives not working with Vista installs but the latest DS3 bios fixed that.

Did you order from Newegg?

Fenna · Post by **Fenna** » February 2, 2007, 8:18 pm

I did order everything from Newegg (aside from the Dell monitor I just ordered, of course). I also already updated the bios to the lates rev. 1 version, for Vista. I did that after not finding any Rev. 2 indicators.

Assuming I did get rev. 1, hopefully I don't have any issues with it. I haven't so far.

Fenna · Post by **Fenna** » February 2, 2007, 8:22 pm

The next thing I'm going to research is a good cabling solution for the Antec P180 I'm using. I already ordered the power cable extenders (my 12v 4-pin couldn't even make it to the plug without the CPU in the way).

I would like to find some good ideas on how to organize the cables in a clean and efficient way. The airflow in this thing seems to be great, but it can always be better. Oh, and it's extremely quiet too.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 6, 2007, 2:38 pm

This is kind of neat. You now have a lot more Sidebar options:

http://amnesty.mesadynamics.com/GeneratorWin.html

http://desktop.google.com/plugins/

The Amnesty Generator for Windows is designed to easily convert any embeddable web site widget (including Google Gadgets) into a Vista Sidebar Gadget. Compared to Vista's Gadget library's relatively meager 275 gadgets, Google Gadgets for your web page, for example, currently sports over 3000 widgets. So basically, Vista's gadget library just grew from 275 to 275 plus 3000 plus whatever other web widgets you can find on the Internet. If this sounds familiar to OS X users, it is because Amnesty Generator is also available for Dashboard. The generator currently has a few bugs (particularly in the visual interface department), but overall it works fairly well.

Vaemas · Post by **Vaemas** » February 6, 2007, 4:54 pm

Currently using (with permission) my employer's Windows XP Pro VLK. Anyone have any idea if I can "upgrade" to Ultimate or will this somehow fuck their VLK or be denied?

Alternatively, I can pick up an OEM of Ultimate for $199...I realize if I do that it'll be tied to the MOBO unless I can BS my way around it. Granted, I don't plan on upgrading any time soon.

32 bit or 64 bit?

noel · Post by **noel** » February 6, 2007, 5:27 pm

No idea on the VLK.

I'd say 32-bit for now.

The main thing with 64-bit is that all drivers MUST be signed. If you have a device that doesn't have a Vista x64 driver, you basically cannot use it. At this point my plan is to wait for all of my devices to be supported with 64-bit drivers and then upgrade my x86 version to x64. Bear in mind that there are very few applications that written specifically to be 64-bit, but you shouldn't have any issues running them as 32-bit applications under 64-bit Vista.

Short answer. Wait about a year, then 64-bit or if you think all of your drivers are there now, go 64-bit now.

Vaemas · Post by **Vaemas** » February 6, 2007, 5:47 pm

I'll probably just go 32 for now. I already know I have at least one controller that isn't supported under Vista. Stupid Promise Technologies!

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » February 6, 2007, 7:18 pm

i went 64 bit, and i get an error about not having a sound card driver (some embedded Yamaha thing in my mobo) but the sound works, so i dont give a shit

the few apps 32 bit apps i've installed so far work fine

noel · Post by **noel** » February 6, 2007, 7:37 pm

Personally I'm just waiting for Nvidia to sort out the 8800 drivers and then I'm planning to switch.