Olympic bomber: Supermax is driving me insane

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Winnow
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Olympic bomber: Supermax is driving me insane

Post by Winnow »

And here I thought prison life was great with three squares a day. I'd be curious to see what access this guy has to reading material...sounds like he's complaining about "social and environmental stimuli". No radios allowed in Supermax?

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/12/11/rudol ... index.html
FLORENCE, Colorado (AP) -- Olympic bomber Eric Rudolph laments in a series of letters to a newspaper that the maximum-security federal prison where he is spending the rest of his life is designed to drive him insane.

"It is a closed-off world designed to isolate inmates from social and environmental stimuli, with the ultimate purpose of causing mental illness and chronic physical conditions such as diabetes, heart disease and arthritis," he wrote in one letter to The Gazette of Colorado Springs.

Rudolph wrote that he spends 23 hours a day in his 7-by-12-foot cell, his only exercise confined to an enclosed area he described as a "large empty swimming pool" divided into "dog-kennel style cages."

"Using solitary confinement, Supermax is designed to inflict as much misery and pain as is constitutionally permissible," he wrote in a letter.

One of Rudolph's victims had no sympathy for him.

"It gives me a great deal of pride to think he's never coming out of there," said Diane Derzis, who runs a Birmingham, Alabama, women's clinic Rudolph bombed in 1998. "He should never see daylight again."

The newspaper reported in its Sunday editions that it has corresponded by mail with Rudolph for more than a year, and prison officials have refused the paper's request to interview Rudolph.

The Gazette refused Rudolph's request that it publish his writings in their entirety. The newspaper said if it published articles, it would print portions of the letters as long as they were not hate literature or libelous.

Rudolph, an anti-government extremist, pleaded guilty in April 2005 to setting the bomb that killed one person and wounded more than 100 at the 1996 Atlanta Olympics, and three other bombings, including a fatal explosion at a Birmingham clinic.
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Post by Sylvus »

How does the prison inflict diabetes on people?
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Post by Animalor »

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't prison supposed to suck?
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Post by Ashur »

One of Rudolph's victims had no sympathy for him.
They could probably have just removed "One of" from that comment.
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Post by Truant »

Sylvus wrote:How does the prison inflict diabetes on people?
I would guess he's basing his argument on only being allowed one hour of excersize a day. Which adds up to bullshit by my math.
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Post by Lalanae »

lol I guess he doesn't "get" that prison is supposed to be punishment... It shouldn't be comfortable. An hour of exercise a day sounds like plenty of time outside to move around.
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Post by Aardor »

Do inmates in supermax's get access to the prison library (assuming there is one)?, IMO that's way more entertainment/stimuli than he deserves.
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Post by Sueven »

The point of keeping him in prison for the rest of his life isn't to hurt him, it's to keep him away for the rest of us. While I don't endorse spending money on his entertainment, I don't see a problem with letting him have a pull-up bar in his cell or access to books which he can read or something like that. The only reason he's in solitary is to make it more difficult for him to pull off any sort of nefarious plot, and to prevent him from poisoning those members of the prison population who might get out someday. This is all fine.

Within the confines of the requirements that, (1), the public at large is protected from him, (2), his ability to escape or attack guards is as minimal as possible, (3), his ability to influence others is as minimal as possible, and (4), the public isn't required to finance excess costs, who cares what the fuck it's like for him in there? As far as I'm concerned, anyone who wants to watch an inmate suffer for reasons which don't relate to protection or rehabilitation is exhibiting a failure of morality.
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Post by Winnow »

For prisoners with life sentences, I would allow access to a library of as much literature as possible (donated). Somehow allow for listening to a selection of music as well, not forced music, perhaps audio books or something as well. If we are just going to keep someone locked in a room with no way to to stimulate their mind in any way, we should just execute them instead.

They should probably have access to porn as well unless we remove their sex drive as well before committing them to life in prison. Is it not inhumane to suppress a natural instinct?

This all leads to the question...if liberals are so worried about taking care of prisoners sentenced to life in prison...wouldn't it be more humane to kill them? Put them out of their misery. Why keep them alive if they have no shot at contributing at all to society? ..I know I know...because 40 years down the road they might be found innocent...fuck that.

If we are going to imprison people for life, we should give them the option (volunteer) to work in some sort of capacity. I'm sure most would rather work than sit around in a cell. Clean port-a-potties or something. This is probably already an option for most...maybe add an option to volunteer as human guinea pigs to save some rabbits and monkeys for a better selection of reading material and music.
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Post by Nick »

if liberals are so worried about taking care of prisoners sentenced to life in prison
I was with you until you retardedly turned it into a partisan discussion.
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Post by Winnow »

Nick wrote:
if concerned humanitarians are so worried about taking care of prisoners sentenced to life in prison
I was with you until you retardedly turned it into a partisan discussion.
carry on!
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Post by Sueven »

This all leads to the question...if liberals are so worried about taking care of prisoners sentenced to life in prison...wouldn't it be more humane to kill them?
Agreed. I'd certainly rather die than be stuck in a supermax for another 50 years. I don't see why supermax prisoners can't at least opt for execution. I don't think that they should be automatically executed without a higher standard of proof than that which was used to convict them, but I'd be fine with execution given irrefutable evidence, or with optional execution at the discretion of the prisoner.
If we are going to imprison people for life, we should give them the option (volunteer) to work in some sort of capacity. I'm sure most would rather work than sit around in a cell. Clean port-a-potties or something.
Also agreed. I think that businesses and government entities ought to be able to contract for prison labor. They'd be required to pay fair market value for the labor, but instead of giving the money to the prisoners (unjust) or the government (distortionary and creates incentives for corruption), they should donate the money to charity. Everyone does well: Government and business get access to a captive labor pool with no penalty, the prisoners get something productive to do, and money flows to charity.

Cleaning port-a-potties probably wouldn't work, as I'd think prisoners ought to do work which they can do without leaving prison grounds, but there's plenty of repetitive-task work which could be done inside a prison.
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Post by Soreali »

Sueven wrote:
This all leads to the question...if liberals are so worried about taking care of prisoners sentenced to life in prison...wouldn't it be more humane to kill them?
Agreed. I'd certainly rather die than be stuck in a supermax for another 50 years. I don't see why supermax prisoners can't at least opt for execution. I don't think that they should be automatically executed without a higher standard of proof than that which was used to convict them, but I'd be fine with execution given irrefutable evidence, or with optional execution at the discretion of the prisoner.
If we are going to imprison people for life, we should give them the option (volunteer) to work in some sort of capacity. I'm sure most would rather work than sit around in a cell. Clean port-a-potties or something.
Also agreed. I think that businesses and government entities ought to be able to contract for prison labor. They'd be required to pay fair market value for the labor, but instead of giving the money to the prisoners (unjust) or the government (distortionary and creates incentives for corruption), they should donate the money to charity. Everyone does well: Government and business get access to a captive labor pool with no penalty, the prisoners get something productive to do, and money flows to charity.

Cleaning port-a-potties probably wouldn't work, as I'd think prisoners ought to do work which they can do without leaving prison grounds, but there's plenty of repetitive-task work which could be done inside a prison.

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Post by Tyek »

Well the person he killed has no access to those things either, so I have little sympathy for him.

It's not like the guy did not know there would ramifications if he was caught. So if he enjoyed the freedom and pleasure of those things then the simple answer would be not to commit such a serious crime. I know it is the simple stupid answer and there are more complex issues involved, but the old hack statement is true, "do not do the crime if you are not willing to do the time."
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Post by Kryshade »

I may be a cold hearted bastard, but I truly believe that if you go out of your way to purposely kill another human being, in an act like this man did, then you deserve the worst. I don't think for a second that someone like this should do anything other than sit and rot in a cell. Screw giving him "entertainment". He's a waste of human life and tax dollars. There is absolutely no point in coddling violent, premeditated, evil killers/rapists etc. I think they should be put to death, or incarcerated for the remainders of their life, eating nothing but peanut butter and crackers with nothing but water to drink.

I'm not saying I believe this for all crimes certainly, but the serial killers, bombers, serial rapists etc, that have absoultely nothing to contribute to society are a waste of both air and tax dollars. I don't think this man should be allowed ANYTHING that would make his time in prison easier, more enjoyable or more comforting.

Just my two cents, like I said, I'm a cold hearted bastard when it comes to things like this. I agree that two wrongs don't make a right, but there is no sense in catering to people like that, or trying to make their punishment for the heinous crimes they've done any easier.
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Post by Deward »

He should of gotten the death penalty for his crimes. Prosecutors had a clear cut case and let him plead guilty to avoid the death sentence.

I have seen specials on the Supermax prisons. My big issue with them is the cost. Commonly a single supermax only holds a few hundred inmates yet costs tens of millions of dollars to build and maintain. Youngstown supermax cost $65 Million for 500 beds. That works out to $130k per inmate and that doesn't include personnel costs and maintenance. That is just the building itself. That is one of the cheaper supermax's I have seen.

That one hour a day out of the cell is not to go outside either. It is to go into a bigger cell that commonly has a basketball hoop if you are lucky. The cells commonly have no tvs or radios and reading material is limited to what the guards think you should have. You also have no visitors. Now this is a really nasty punishment. I don't think anyone could stay sane for more than ten years and I can guarantee that if you stick someone here for a couple years that they will not want to go back.
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Post by Winnow »

The taxpayers are taking the hit as well as the Supermax inmate. Either experiment on them, kill them, or kill them and use their organs for transplants. As long as the inmate has the option of a painless death at any point, all is good on the humanitarian side of things.

For those that say executing someone is as expensive as keeping them in a supermax facility for life, the process for carrying out the death penalty needs to be changed. I'm sure Walmart would sell a generic form of cyanide for $10 in their pharmacy if needed.

I don't see the satisfaction in paying for someone to live their life under heavy guard. The GNP juggernaut that is the United States can sweep plenty of expenses under the table but it's still a waste.

If you're not going to give them any mental stimulation, why are they alive for any other reason than suffering a form of mental torture?

I'd say the key consideration for whether keeping someone alive or not is if they can contribute to society in any way. This supermax inmate is able to get letters published in a newspaper so that does contribute to society as we are discussing it right now. In light of that, I suppose he would pass the "society test" and continue to live even if just to complain about his situation to newspapers.
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Post by Xyun »

This guy deserves what he is getting: a punishment worse than death.
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Post by Burke »

Just make him the first guy to go in on a bomb disposal squad.
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Post by Aslanna »

You have to ask yourself.. Are you seeking justice or revenge. There is a difference.
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Post by Tyek »

As far as my response is concerned I think I am asking for justice. I did not ask for him to be killed, or tortured. I just think that if you do something like this, you lose most of the basic freedoms in your life. The guy killed one, but his intention was to kill many people. Why should he be allowed to sit and watch TV, play games or do anything that would bring any kind of satisfaction again? He is not going to ever get out of jail, so put him in a room, give him an hour of excercise and stick him back in the room. The person he killed gets nothing but a pine box. Tell me where is the justice in that?
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Post by Nick »

I don't get why this guy is complaining....this seems like such a pointless discussion. Prison is meant to be shit. If he was so worried about prison conditions maybe he shouldn't have bombed the Olympics and killed a man.

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Post by kyoukan »

Cruel and unusual punishment is unconstitutional.
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Post by Zaelath »

kyoukan wrote:Cruel and unusual punishment is unconstitutional.
Cruel and Unusual are both defined by society, and in a society that condones detention without charge and "coercion", neither applies in this case.
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Post by Leonaerd »

Winnow wrote:I'd say the key consideration for whether keeping someone alive or not is if they can contribute to society in any way. This supermax inmate is able to get letters published in a newspaper so that does contribute to society as we are discussing it right now. In light of that, I suppose he would pass the "society test" and continue to live even if just to complain about his situation to newspapers.
I like the sound of that.

I also think that since it appears most people are happy with his assumed torturous tenure in prison, it wouldn't hurt to experiment on his otherwise societally useless body, as Winnow said. Cure some diseases at the expense of somebody whose skin was offered up at the cost of another. It makes sense on some level, right?
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Post by kyoukan »

Zaelath wrote:
kyoukan wrote:Cruel and unusual punishment is unconstitutional.
Cruel and Unusual are both defined by society, and in a society that condones detention without charge and "coercion", neither applies in this case.
It can also be defined by a panel of judges.
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Post by Xatrei »

Everyone remembers him as the Olympic Bomber, but those events were only part of his terror campaign - it wasn't even his only fatal attack, just the most notorious. He killed a security guard and severely wounded a nurse at a Birmingham women's clinic. He bombed a women's clinic in Atlanta, and then detonated a second bomb in a failed attempt to kill / maim rescuers responding to the initial attack. He also bombed a gay night club in suburban Atlanta as a part of his little war on abortion and sodomy. He's a vile disgusting person and deserves nothing but misery for the rest of his existence, but that doesn't mean we are morally justified in going out of our way to torment him (I don't necessarily think that's happening). Lock him up, give him the absolute minimum of comforts required by law, and by and large forget about him.

Execution is vengeance and nothing more. It has no place in a modern, moral society. Medical experimentation & slave labor are best left in the past with Stalin and Hitler.
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Post by Sargeras »

So he's in prison and demanding better accomodations....













:lol:

Rot in that cell for the rest of your pathetic life you shit, because when you die, you'll wish you were still there when you see where you'll end up.
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Post by Aslanna »

Sargeras wrote:So he's in prison and demanding better accomodations....
I don't see any demands for better accomodations anywhere in the article. Complaints yes but no demands.
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