Kramer has a meltdown on stage

[Funkmasterr]

Dude, they called him a cracker after he had said nigger about 30 times, so that argument is 100% irrelevant.

And I will go a step further from the argument of his career being a flop and say that his career was over well before this. The way he acted as Kramer in Seinfeld was not new, the two shows that he was in prior to seinfeld were the exact same as well - he willingly typecast himself and wrecked his career before it even got rolling, so this just sealed something that was already in the works.

That's not to say he wasn't good on Seinfeld and didn't make plenty of $$

[miir]

they called him a cracker after he had said nigger about 30 times, so that argument is 100% irrelevant

But you also have no idea what was siad to him before he went off.

The way he acted as Kramer in Seinfeld was not new, the two shows that he was in prior to seinfeld were the exact same as well - he willingly typecast himself and wrecked his career before it even got rolling, so this just sealed something that was already in the works.

Yeah, his career was wrecked long before his 10 year run on what was arguably one of the best television shows in the past 25 years.


Maybe he didn't do shit after Sienfeld because he didn't have to.
Maybe he was doing standup because he enjoys it.
Maybe this was just a publicity stunt.
Maybe I hear so much retarded shit on a daily basis that Mr Richard's little stunt rates about a -1 on my who-gives-a-shit meter.

[Tyek]

Did you happen to see what happened prior to the moment he went crazy? None of us did since we did not see the video except the one they want you to see. How do you know they weren't calling him cracker or whatnot before the video explosion. Using your logic that would "justify" his use of that word to them after they called him that. I totally agree what he did was uncalled for regardless of what they said, but stop acting like they were innocent victims. According to several witnesses and now some of the comics, they were assholes who were trying to ruin people's show. Richards lost it and will pay for it, but I bet he was not the only jerk there that night.

Also, my point about the heckle they made was not whether or not he is typecast, my point is that to say, all you did was Seinfeld, is like saying all Sandy Koufax did was pitch for the Dodgers. So what, he reached a career pinacle most of us will never touch, so chances are he won't see it again. Big deal he is rich and has the proverbial "Fuck You" money.

[Sylvus]

Like I mentioned earlier, on the Today show they said they came in a limo with a group of about 20 people for a birthday party. They're being represented by Gloria Allred (I'm not saying that's good or bad), and the club has a tape of the whole show (which, they claim, Michael Richards has not consented to being released). They claim he started it when they walked in, and the cracker thing didn't happen until he started behaving like a bigot. That's just their side of the story, as I haven't heard many details from Michael Richards about the incident other than his mentions of rage or whatever, I can't write his side of the story.

The bottom line is that regardless of whether or not they said something, they're basically anonymous and he's one of the most-recognizable television stars of the past 20 years, possibly ever, and it's a terribly poor decision, not to mention a bad job of handling "hecklers" (if that's what they were), to behave the way that he did.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

They're being represented by Gloria Allred (I'm not saying that's good or .

Represented for what? What crime was committed?

[Truant]

They're being represented by Gloria Allred (I'm not saying that's good or .

Represented for what? What crime was committed?

I'm sure they're trying to sue him for every last seinfeld dollar. That's just a guess however.

[Vaemas]

Represented for what? What crime was committed?

Well, Mr. Ragebringer, if you actually knew anything about the criminal justice system and the civil branch, you would be able to make the rational distinction that this isn't a criminal issue.

Why? Because if it were criminal, the district attorney would be involved, not some lawyer the plaintiff(s) retained. It's a civil case. Civil lawsuits follow different rules than criminal cases. There is also a different threshold for determining guilt or innocence. If you recall the OJ trials, not guilty in criminal court, guilty in civil. You don't go to jail for a civil suit.

I would guess the lawyers will argue assault and battery. I won't bother trying to enlighten you on what these mean in civil court, since you're too ignorant to understand the difference.

So while there's no crime committed and we are all free to speak our own minds, Mr. Richards is going to be taken to task for his words. No doubt, these folks are out for a buck (who wouldnt' be?). The best thing Mr. Richards could do would be to settle and just get on with his hateful, angry life.

[Tuddi2]

racist remarks and racism are in my oppinion two different things, related yes, but not the same thing.

people who are not racist may resort to using racist remarks in order to get an easier shot at someone they mean to hurt in some manner.

especially when angry, you go with the first thing that pops into your head, we've all been there, and then when at home later you think "i should have said yadda yadda", but at the time you dont have the luxury of picking your words carefully because of your anger.

it btw doesn't have to be an uncontrollable rage that makes people resort to using one of the lowest form of verbal abuse that is racism. anger is quite sufficient to have some people go there.

why do you use racist remarks, in the hopes of making your victim feel bad, lesser, vulnerable or stirred up enough to get down to your level so you can yell at each other in an uncivilized manner like the person in the audience did by responding with the "cracker" something comment.

it should be common knowledge that we dont always say what we feel, and it's not any different when it comes to racism, as Kramer said in his apology on Letterman, he's not racist and i am quite capable of going on a limb and believe that despite having seen his outburst where he used racist remarks to shut the guy in the audience up (unsuccessfully).

----

on another note.

the word Nigger, why is that word alone so powerful, because african americans take into consideration slavery that happened years ago, segrigation (typo?) that happend not too long ago, and bind that into the meaning of the word.

the people who then use the word KNOW THAT and that's why they use it, the only people that can defuse the power of the word nigger are black people themselves.

if every white person in the world would attend some whites only meeting where we'd all agree to get honestly pissed off if someone called us honky, cracker, white trash etc.

then these kind of comments would empower other races when they in a moment of anger would like to take an easy jab at someone that was white. they'd know using the word would be enough to piss said person off. so they use it.

it's the same as if i see someone that is pissing me off, that someone is overweight and i wanting to hurt his feelings or to get a rise out of him call him a lardass and make up some bullshit story about how much he eats and what not, i see a possible weakness and i go for it.

personally i think that giving the word nigger, this much power and using history as an excuse for not wanting to defuse it's power is fucking bullshit.

if someone calls me a fucking cracker, i smile and wonder why he isn't going for something easier like saying i'm butt ugly or something, that might hurt a bit, mostly cuz i've hardly been known for looking like mr. GQ hotstuff. but thinking i'm sensitive about my race is just ignorant.

main problem with scenarios like this is people taking things to seriously and beeing fucking drama queens and narrow minded.

these kind of incidents sorta remind of having the "nws" tags on pictures or threads that might not be safe to open at work because of fear of getting sacked, or at least getting in trouble because someone walking by looks at your screenk, gets offended and whines to the boss about this.
here where i live, at most you'll get a talk with your boss saying

"you were browsing while you should have been working ?"
if yes
"dont let this happen again"
if no
"oh it was during your lunch, never mind, try and turn your screen in a manner that doesn't upset mr/mrs whiny bitch"

the phrase "only in america" has lost it's beneficial status and become something of an easy jab at americans when you want to upset them, it used to be about how amazing the country is and it still is, but the phrase is more used in a negative manner today, at least as far as i know.

kramer isn't racist, he's got a short fuse, that much is clear, on top of that i'd wager he's only of average intelligence, reason i say that is if you've had an arguement with someone really smart, you'll know how frustrating it is, they dont let anything you say get them upset, very calmly find your soft spot and push.

[Asheran Mojomaster]

Well, I dont want to quote that entire thing...but I know some very smart people who will flip out over the smallest shit.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Well, I dont want to quote that entire thing...but I know some very smart people who will flip out over the smallest shit.

being smart doesn't equate to be logical or reasonable.

[Lalanae]

I was really disappointed that the people who he verbally assaulted are going to try and get money out of it. While what Richards did was totally out of line and I don't have a bit of sympathy for him, these guys are real low lives if they sue him for it. Just the suggestion that they want money out of it, made me lose all sympathy for what they went through.

[Funkmasterr]

I was really disappointed that the people who he verbally assaulted are going to try and get money out of it. While what Richards did was totally out of line and I don't have a bit of sympathy for him, these guys are real low lives if they sue him for it. Just the suggestion that they want money out of it, made me lose all sympathy for what they went through.

I agree, judges need to start laughing at people that bring these ridiculous cases to court.

[Marbus]

I agree 100% on the sue thing... America is sue happy and we need to stop that shit, not sure how but people need to grow up at bit because at this rate it's going to get so out of hand eventually it will be like the little boy who cried wolf...

Anyway... in regards to what Truddi was talking about, here are some things to consider but let me preface them with the fact that they are an opinion... some mine, some quoted from "experts." I do believe they are partially true but that still doesn't mean there aren't other things at play as well...

So, the "N" word... I think I've told you guys the story of when I use to work with the gangs in Little Rock back in the early 90s. After hanging out for a while and becoming trusted my kids used that word around me all the time. As I was usually the only white dude around at anything we did I eventually got use to it. At one point my team lead, who was black, asked one of my more troublesome youth why he felt comfortable using that word around me. He said, "us black folks call each other nigger all time but not when whity (as he winked at me) is around, how come you (guys) feel it's ok to use it around Mr. Joe" and the respons was "cause he's a nigger too, so it don't matter, he could roll up to the neighborhood and yell "yo what's up NIGGA!" and everyone would wave just like if it was Mark or something..." At which point I smiled a big warm smile and laughed but assured him I would probably never do that, even if 90% of the people in his neighborhood did know me

But here is the point and why that was meaningful to me at the time. People associate words and phrases with different meanings from different people. As we have noted, it's usually ok for a black person to use that word but not for a white guy. Why? and along the same lines why do most white people not care if someone calls them "whitey" or "cracker" etc...??? Because it's all about power.

When one black guy calls another black guy a nigger he is probably in a similar life situation and roll. You get some really rich black guy drive up in a Rolls, look down at the brother on the street and call him a Nigger and see if the brother on the street dosen't take offense to it.

And although hetrosexual white middle class males are truly the only non protected group in some fashion and are losing power, no one can say that the group I and many of us are in are not the power base. We usually make more money, were better educated etc... So some guy calls you a "cracker" so... who cares, it and he holds no power over you. Right?

Sure there are exceptions to this rule but in general I've found it to be true. I also heard a black comedican on the Bob and Tom show a few weeks ago talking about words etc... and one of them said "I don't take offense when someone calls me cracker" and the guys said "cause it ain't offensive really, it's a power word - most you white people think we talkin' about salteens or something, that ain't where the word came from. It came from one brother saying to another, 'you best pickup that bail of hay before that cracker come over here crackin' that whip"

Now I don't know if that's true or not but it was definitely funny at 7:30 in the morning a few weeks ago...

Yet again it's a power thing. Someone talked about calling someone fat or ugly or something like... why? again, if someone calls you fat and you look like Arnold Schwarsnegger, who cares? but you look like Orsen Wells did and you might... you might if that bothered you, if you were jealous or hurt that you didn't look as good or feel as confident as the guy saying it. I mean come on you have seent the shrits that say "I may be fat but you are ugly and I can diet" funny it's always the people who probably never will diet that are wearing those but nonetheless it's a power thing, a way to make them feel better about who they are right?

So just consider the power issue, not saying it's 100% correct but if you look at it in other scenarios as well it seems to hold true.

Marb

[noel]

I'll say this for Richards... He's doing more than any celebrity I've ever seen in an attempt to make amends for it.

As far as the idiots who are suing... Way to miss the point.

[Boogahz]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/TV/11/2 ... index.html

Black leaders: End N-word in entertainment
POSTED: 4:40 p.m. EST, November 27, 2006

LOS ANGELES, California (AP) -- Black leaders on Monday challenged the entertainment industry, including rappers, to stop use of the racial slur that Michael Richards uttered in his tirade.

The Rev. Jesse Jackson and others said they will meet with TV networks, film companies and musicians to discuss the "n-word."

"We want to give our ancestors a present," Jackson said at a news conference. "Dignity over degradation."

Jackson also asked the public not to buy a DVD box set of the seventh season of the TV show "Seinfeld" that was released last week.

Richards, who played the wacky neighbor Kramer on "Seinfeld," triggered outrage with a November 17 racial rant against two black men when he was heckled during a stand-up comedy routine at the Laugh Factory nightclub in West Hollywood. A patron recorded the outburst with a video camera phone.

Richards has made several apologies, including one Sunday on Jackson's syndicated radio program, in which he has said he is not a racist and was motivated by anger. (Watch Richards on the radio show -- 2:45 )

At the press conference, comedian Paul Mooney said he has used the "n-word" numerous times during stand-up performances but will no longer do so after watching Richards' rant.

"He's my Dr. Phil," the black comedian said. "He's cured me." (Watch Mooney say why he's done with the word -- 6:31 )

Asked about free-speech issues, Jackson said the word is "unprotected."

U.S. Rep. Maxine Waters, D-California, charged that only situations such as the Richards incident turn mainstream media attention to issues involving the black community.

"This is not simply about whether or not the black community forgives or forgets, this is about understanding that this is pervasive, that this happens in all of our institutions, one way or the other," Waters said.

[Jice Virago]

Words only have the power people give them. Assigning so much power to a word is a sign of weakness, culturally, in my personal opinion. Over reacting to it is just empowering people who want to do you harm.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Words only have the power people give them. Assigning so much power to a word is a sign of weakness, culturally, in my personal opinion. Over reacting to it is just empowering people who want to do you harm.

Beautifully said.

[Aslanna]

Jackson also asked the public not to buy a DVD box set of the seventh season of the TV show "Seinfeld" that was released last week.

Thanks Jesse. I didn't even know that was out! I'll have to pick it up this week.

Anyway, as far as the word itself goes.. It's either all bad or it's all ok. If you're going to use it everyday, or be exposed to it in various forms of entertainment, then don't be offended when someone else uses it. I don't get why the double-standard is there. With their outrage they are only giving more power to it.

[noel]

I know this topic seems to be dying a bit, but I saw this article on ESPN and thought it was well written and relevant. Personally, I fall into the category of never using the word and not being comfortable when it's used around me by my black friends (and especially not by my white friends). I don't know that it needs to go away if it's important to the black community, but I also don't know that it's truly important to the black community.

A word with consequences
By LZ Granderson
Page 2

If you visit the iTunes Web site right now and preview the first five tracks from The Game's new CD, "Doctor's Advocate," you will hear the n-word about 15 times in a 2½ minute span.

I bring this up because "Doctor's Advocate" was the top-selling CD in the country last week. The same week Michael Richards was blasted for his "I'm not a racist" racist rant.

Now, I'm not trying to call out The Game. In fact, I'm sure I used the word a couple of times last week myself. And I'm certainly not cutting Kramer any slack either. But I do find it's getting more and more difficult to intelligently celebrate a black man who repeatedly calls himself "n-----" and then chastise a white guy for saying "He's a n-----." It just seems like there's a disconnect there.

So, though I usually tend to ignore the opportunistic exploits of the Rev. Jesse Jackson, I do applaud this week's news conference in which he challenged Hollywood and musicians to abandon the word. Between bites of bean pies and Ramen noodles, I and other fake kente cloth-wearing Generation Xers foolishly believed that if we took the word from whites that somehow it would diminish its power. Instead we've made the nation numb through our hypocrisy.

But while Jackson is on his current crusade for equality, may I suggest he make a couple of stops into the locker room? Rappers and actors come and go. But athletes? They are forever. They visit our schools, do community service in our neighborhoods, live in our hearts. If they can get people to shave their heads, buy a pair of shoes, or consider wearing a pair of tights, they can change people's attitudes toward the n-word.

Anyone who has ever been routinely in a college, pro or even a high school locker room has, at some point, heard the n-word. You might never see a black athlete use it in a TV interview, but believe me, if he's using it in the locker room it's not falling on deaf ears.

At first I thought about talking to AI, LeBron and other black athletes as well as notable figures such as Cornell West and Corey Booker to get their take, but that just felt done to me. So I flipped it. Over the past few days I spoke with a number of white athletes, agents and team personnel to get their take. Under conditions of anonymity, nearly all of them said that when they hear the word it makes them uncomfortable because they have been taught it is the worst word in the English language.

And it is.

But why do I and others insist on keeping it alive, as opposed to letting it die the way "mulatto" and "octoroon" fell from our collective social consciousness? We can continue to believe that it's OK for blacks but not whites to say it, but only three things come from the "do as I say, not as I do" approach to life: resentment, rebellion and worst of all, apathy.

"I've heard the word so much that it doesn't even bother me," says one of the white athletes. "I would never use it, but I'm used to hearing black people use it all of the time, so I don't think anything of it.

"I know it's hard for me to say this, because I'm not in that position, but if my people were the minority and oppressed for so long, the last thing I would want is for someone to call me that word."

A public relations executive who works with high-level athletes said he wishes "they would use another word."

"It's always n-this and n-that," he says. "On one hand it's just a word, but being raised in an environment where you're taught to never, ever use it because it's so painful, and then see the people who are supposed to be hurt by it use it with each other all of the time, I think sends a mixed message. I'm not using it, but nowadays you hear Latinos use it, young white kids use it. … It's ironic that as the world gets more and more politically correct, you hear that word more often, not less."

CC Carnie, president of Serchlite Music, has been working in the hip-hop industry for more than 12 years. She also organizes parties in conjunction with a lot professional athletes. She says she talked with a lot of people – both black and white – about the Richards scenario, and she was "disappointed but not surprised that a lot in the white community don't see it as big deal."

"They say black comedians use the word 'cracker' all of the time and nothing happens to them," says Carnie, who is white. "I think the attitude is a reflection of a much larger experience they don't understand, and that word is so powerful that there is no white derogatory word that is equivalent. They still don't understand the whole impact of slavery, and not being able to be educated, or vote, or the separation of families. They think the civil rights movement happened a hundred years ago, and I'm like no, it was less than 50 years ago."

Carnie says it's been her experience that rappers tend to use the n-word more than athletes, but that it would have a profound affect if "LeBron [James], Carmelo [Anthony], Donovan [McNabb], Michael Vick came out and said let's stop using that word."

"For the most part, educated white people know not to use that word, but if you really want it to disappear it has to be resolved within the black community, and athletes carry as much weight as anyone."

MC Serch has been as true to the game as any artist and is perhaps the most respected white rapper in hip-hop history. He says changing people's attitudes about the word is about consistency and education.

"I don't even notice it 90 percent of the time it's said around me," he says. "I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing, I think its just a thing. It's a bad thing this week because of the whole Michael Richards situation, but in six months when people are listening to a Game record, or Nas or Jay-Z, will it still be a bad thing? I doubt it. If you really want to get people to stop using it, you have to talk to the young kids and explain to them why they shouldn't use it. But you can't just go in and do it when it's in the media. You have to do it all of the time."

You know, a friend of mine jokingly said to me that as black men we're all just one police altercation away from being a n-----. I laughed, but as I walked away I realized his statement had a lot more truth to it than what I was comfortable with. We can get the degrees, the fame, the accolades and the money, but to some we will always be n------. I'm all right with that because there's nothing I can do about it. But that doesn't mean we have to see each other that way.

So this holiday season I've decided to give myself the gift of dignity by cutting the n-word out of my vocab. I'm not on some PC crusade, and I'm not trying to be sanctimonious. But to paraphrase Luke 6:45, a man speaks what is in his heart. In a moment of anger, Michael Richards did. When my feet are held to the fire, I don't want the n-word to come out. More importantly, I don't want an environment where hearing it no longer bothers people. White people should be uncomfortable when they hear that word. But black people should be, too.

LZ Granderson is a senior writer for ESPN the Magazine and host of the ESPN360 talk show "Game Night." He is currently working on his first book. LZ can be reached at l_granderson@yahoo.com.

[Sueven]

My two opinions:

1. Seinfeld was already a flashpoint for debate about racism in media prior to the rant, simply because it was so popular, was intended to be reflective of real life, and contained no black people whatsoever.

2. I believe Michael Richards is racist. I simply don't buy the argument that a totally non-racist person would flip out in that manner. If I got so angry that I snapped and started screaming, it certainly wouldn't involve references to lynching and racial slurs. I've seen lots of people flip out in my lifetime, and they scream all sorts of things. Interestingly, the only ones who scream racist things are the only ones who are racist.

[Sionistic]

I think if someone gets mad at me saying nigger, but say it all the time themselves is bullshit. However since Im spanish no one calls me racist
In truth, I think whites arnt even that much racist anymore. I think blacks and hispanics are more racist. People only really look for racism in white people.

[laneela]

What, now?

[Winnow]

Marsellus: What now? Let me tell you what now. I'ma call a coupla hard, pipe-hittin' niggers, who'll go to work on the homes here with a pair of pliers and a blow torch. You hear me talkin', hillbilly boy? I ain't through with you by a damn sight. I'ma get medieval on your ass.

Butch: I meant what now between me and you?

Marsellus: Oh, that what now. I tell you what now between me and you. There is no me and you. Not no more.

--------

Nigger: in this case, acceptable (Marsellus is black and can us the word nigger at will according to the unwritten rules of racism)

Hillbilly boy: wouldn't that be like calling Marsellus a Cotton Picking boy? Unacceptable!

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

I think if someone gets mad at me saying nigger, but say it all the time themselves is bullshit. However since Im spanish no one calls me racist
In truth, I think whites arnt even that much racist anymore. I think blacks and hispanics are more racist. People only really look for racism in white people.

Excellent observation.

[kyoukan]

Hey look everyone. A stupid fucking racist agrees

[Tyek]

Everyone is racist to some degree. Even African Americans have a "hierarchy" among them. Granted most people are not racist to the level of a midnyte.

Has anyone see this video of Richards?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVt6eoKB9sw

Michael Richards Went ‘Blackface’ in 1986 Movie ‘Whoops Apocalypse’
Posted by Noel Sheppard on November 22, 2006 - 18:38.
In the wake of “Seinfeld” comedian Michael Richards’ now well-publicized meltdown at a comedy club this weekend, the blogosphere has uncovered a little-known 1986 film entitled “Whoops Apocalypse” in which “Kramer” posed as a blind, black man (video here, h/t to Hot Air). As described by Wikipedia:

Whoops Apocalypse was originally a six-part 1982 sitcom by Andrew Marshall and David Renwick, made by London Weekend Television for ITV. Marshall and Renwick later reworked the concept as a 1986 movie with almost completely different characters and plot, although one or two of the original actors returned in different roles. […]

The 1986 ITC Entertainment film version, directed by Tom Bussmann, uses an almost completely different plot from the series, but also ends with an accidentally-triggered nuclear holocaust.

Though Wikipedia described Richards’ character, it isn’t clear why he would be posing as a blind, black man:

Michael Richards plays Lacrobat, the only character from the original series to appear. Lacrobat is partly responsible for the war between the two countries beginning, and is seemingly the only intelligent character in the film. He dies when a tiger - that the SAS have for no reason - rips his throat out.

As Allah pointed out at Hot Air, you get the feeling that we’re going to be hearing a lot more about this movie.

[Cartalas]

Hey look everyone. A stupid fucking racist agrees

Your a stupid fucking racist?

[vn_Tanc]

No YOU are

[Cartalas]

No YOU are

No YOU are

[noel]

Hey look everyone. A stupid fucking racist agrees

Your a stupid fucking racist?

Could you please learn the difference between you're and your?

[Cartalas]

Hey look everyone. A stupid fucking racist agrees

Your a stupid fucking racist?

Could you please learn the difference between you're and your?

Im sorry

[Boogahz]

Hey look everyone. A stupid fucking racist agrees

Your a stupid fucking racist?

Could you please learn the difference between you're and your?

Could you reccamend a good grammer class?

[noel]

Hey look everyone. A stupid fucking racist agrees

Your a stupid fucking racist?

Could you please learn the difference between you're and your?

Im sorry

I'm not trying to crack you needlessly, and I'm not being a grammar nazi. I've seen at least 10 times in your recent posts and said nothing...

[Cartalas]

Hey look everyone. A stupid fucking racist agrees

Your a stupid fucking racist?

Could you please learn the difference between you're and your?

Im sorry

I'm not trying to crack you needlessly, and I'm not being a grammar nazi. I've seen at least 10 times in your recent posts and said nothing...

Its cool Noel no worries.

[Cartalas]

Hey look everyone. A stupid fucking racist agrees

Your a stupid fucking racist?

Could you please learn the difference between you're and your?

Could you reccamend a good grammer class?

I went to one that was taught by Larry the cable guy

[Boogahz]

Hey look everyone. A stupid fucking racist agrees

Your a stupid fucking racist?

Could you please learn the difference between you're and your?

Could you reccamend a good grammer class?

I went to one that was taught by Larry the cable guy

You didn't learn much! Larry the cable guy would have said "Yer!"

[Tuddi2]

My two opinions:

1. Seinfeld was already a flashpoint for debate about racism in media prior to the rant, simply because it was so popular, was intended to be reflective of real life, and contained no black people whatsoever.

2. I believe Michael Richards is racist. I simply don't buy the argument that a totally non-racist person would flip out in that manner. If I got so angry that I snapped and started screaming, it certainly wouldn't involve references to lynching and racial slurs. I've seen lots of people flip out in my lifetime, and they scream all sorts of things. Interestingly, the only ones who scream racist things are the only ones who are racist.

HOLY CRAP , this is some bullshit right here.

when making a show about something that's supposedly is to reflect real life, should you make sure you have the correct % of red hairs, blacks, fat etc to make sure every nitpicking gimp out there can't have an angle to whine about something.

ps on this: you only said "no black people", are you racist towards asians, hispanics, "ragheads", are blacks and white your "real life" races and the rest dont count ?

about thinking michael richards a racist, you know dick about it. and anyways....

I've seen lots of people flip out in my lifetime, and they scream all sorts of things. Interestingly, the only ones who scream racist things are the only ones who are racist

i'm guessing you made some sort of big time survey that led you to this conclusion.

when angry at someone and you resort to words to fight for you, you pick words that hurt that person.
saying you wouldn't resort to the n-word because you're not racist, is bullshit, when someone crosses some line with you and gets far enough under your skin you wont have any reservations using it.

[Toshira]

I'm of the opinion that race in this altercation is incidental.

Watching him, I can't help but imagine a puffer fish blowing up, or a rattlesnake shaking its tail. Humans, like many animals when threatened, will resort to the most inflated and loud posturing possible to discourage further provocation. The last resort would be physical contact/self-defense.

What better way to hurt/confront/scare off an anonymous black person than to scream the word nigger?

The only surprising thing is: why a professional would be so unprepared for heckling - indeed, at a comedy club - that he would resort to such base reactions?

And Mid, about your wah wah double standerds crap. When 99% of white boys are called crackers, those who even know what the term means, or that it's supposed to be disparaging, pretty much laugh at it. It holds no weight. Why? Because there was never a class in power for several hundred years repeating it again and again as a reminder that your crackerness made you worthless. Nigger, on the other hand...

[Nick]

Sueven has done little but post nonsense for at least 6 months now, regardless of how much I hart him so don't take it too seriously.

Ultimately, yer man Kramer shouldn't have gone off the handle and started screaming "he's a nigger he's a nigger" (here's when pseudo black man Funk comes in and starts crying)

What I found most interesting about the whole media fiasco was the "should we stop using the word nigger so that it remains taboo" argument put forward by black people to black people. If every 2 bit wannabe cockhead rapper is going to go on about "his niggas in the crib" he really can't fucking moan when someone with another colour of skin uses it *although not in the Michael Richards way*.

Scrubs have been making a joke out of that bullshit for years. If black people want to desenstize the word then ultimately they can't call foul when everyone else picks it up due its foundation in "popular culture"

Nevertheless, I still don't understand why anyone, black or white, would want to use it, it's a fucking horrible word. You don't see white rockers (talented ones anyway) talking about crackers, or talented latino artists going on about spics, or asian artists talking about "sand eaters" or wtfever.

Then again, I think hip hop and that whole "I've got big pecs and i power my 100 grand car with bitch juice" black rap genre is absolute no talent shite anyway, gimme Sigur Ros or Tool anyday.

YEAH BOYEE I WEAR BASKETBALL TEAM TOPS WITH WHITE SOCKS AND HUMILIATE THE EXCELLENT POINTS RAISED BY NWA BECAUSE THATS WHAT MTV IS LOOKING FOR BABY PIMP MY RIDE NIGGA LOL

[Sueven]

when making a show about something that's supposedly is to reflect real life, should you make sure you have the correct % of red hairs, blacks, fat etc to make sure every nitpicking gimp out there can't have an angle to whine about something.

Nope, I didn't watch Seinfeld and don't really give a shit what the cast was like. Just saying that it's been criticized even before this incident. I'm sure you can find examples if you look.

i'm guessing you made some sort of big time survey that led you to this conclusion.

Nope, in fact I specifically said that the statement referred to people I've seen. Thus it's anecdotal.

saying you wouldn't resort to the n-word because you're not racist, is bullshit, when someone crosses some line with you and gets far enough under your skin you wont have any reservations using it.

Nope, I wouldn't. I don't know how to explain that. I simply would not do it, the same way I wouldn't run someone down with a car no matter how angry I am. I'm not claiming to have super special willpower or anything, I think most decent people are capable of exerting enough self control to not do particularly immoral things.

Sueven has done little but post nonsense for at least 6 months now

Hey, I spent at least 30 minutes defending Florida in the sports forum.

[Kaldaur]

Sueven posting nonsense? Nick, put down thy hash pipe!
I think out of our posters here we can usually count on Sueven to be one of the only rational views. Certainly, his posting level isn't on the degree of "nonsense for the past six months".

[noel]

Sueven posting nonsense? Nick, put down thy hash pipe!
I think out of our posters here we can usually count on Sueven to be one of the only rational views. Certainly, his posting level isn't on the degree of "nonsense for the past six months".

Yeah I have to agree with Kaldaur here. Even when I disagree with Sueven, I can at least respect his opinion and the manner in which he presents it.

Speaking of which, there've been several black people on the show Seinfeld, and not in demeaning roles, so I'm not sure where that's coming from...

I do agree wholeheartedly with Nick when he says:

Nevertheless, I still don't understand why anyone, black or white, would want to use it, it's a fucking horrible word. You don't see white rockers (talented ones anyway) talking about crackers, or talented latino artists going on about spics, or asian artists talking about "sand eaters" or wtfever.

I have several black friends. Around me, they never use that word, but occasionally when I'm around one of their friends, the word gets used in a 'friendly' manner. When Michael Richards used the word, there was clearly some hate and some anger there, but if a black friend can say to another black friend, "What's up nigger?" what's the difference if a white friend says it to a black friend? I personally abhor the word and don't want to use it. I simply want to know what the difference is if it's used in a friendly manner. In reality, I know what the difference is, but I think it's incumbent upon the black community to explore that difference and try to understand why they're still using the word that's so hateful and has so much bad history tied to it.

Not sure how many of you have seen the 1994 movie 'Fear of a Black Hat'. It's a (from IMDB) "mockumentary chronicling the rise and fall of a not particularly talented--or particularly bright but always controversial--1990s hip-hop group, NWH (Niggaz with Hats)". There's a particularly funny seen when 'Vanilla Sherbert' is hanging out with the NWH and says, "Y'all are my niggaz." It's a funny scene, especially when he promptly gets the shit beat ouf of him, but it's a good illustration of the problem with this issue.

[Sylvus]

Sueven has done little but post nonsense for at least 6 months now

Hey, I spent at least 30 minutes defending Florida in the sports forum.

QED!

[Boogahz]

saying you wouldn't resort to the n-word because you're not racist, is bullshit, when someone crosses some line with you and gets far enough under your skin you wont have any reservations using it.

This is one of those times I was talking about Tuddi...I am guessing that this word does not have nearly the impact where you are as it does here. There is no way in hell I would ever use that word in anger with anyone. When you learn to look at each person as an individual, labels like that are pointless. I can think of a lot better things to call people that I am angry with...I guess it's too bad that I rarely get angry and have to use them

[Trias]

i can reccomend the book Eats, Shoots, and Leaves for all of you grammar nazi's out there...it is actually pretty damn funny.

[vn_Tanc]

i can reccomend the book Eats, Shoots, and Leaves for all of you grammar nazi's out there...it is actually pretty damn funny.

You recommend a grammar book then abuse the apostrophe!?!?!!

[Vaemas]

He only recommended it. He never said he practiced what he read...

<insert joke about Bible thumpers>

[Nick]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061209/ap_ ... ord_comedy

(this is a good thing)

[noel]

This isn't a freedom of speech issue. Even if they chose to use the word at the Laugh Factory, they'd have to leave, but they'd still be protected by the first amendment. Though you might believe that the owner of the 'Comedy Union' is acting in a noble manner; the reality is he's just getting some press for his comedy club. For him to even be mentioned in the same article as the Laugh Factory is a win for him.

This is a taste issue, and it's a sensitivity issue not a Freedom of Speech issue.