NWN 2

noel · Post by **noel** » November 8, 2006, 11:37 pm

Anyone playing NWN2?

Kaldaur · Post by **Kaldaur** » November 9, 2006, 12:15 am

I want to pick it up, but I can't rationalize getting it right now right after buying FF12 and with Medieval Total War on the horizon. I figure I'm going to wait awhile; that way, there will be mods available when I get done with the single player. What are your impressions so far, Noel?

Niffoni · Post by **Niffoni** » November 9, 2006, 12:35 am

Like others, I'm playing FFXII at least 2 hours a day, and still messing around on EQ2. I think once things settle down from the expansion and i get sick of XII, I'll pick this up.

I'll be playing NWN2, I just dunno when yet.

TheDarkreigns · Post by **TheDarkreigns** » November 9, 2006, 8:41 am

I have been playing NWN2 recently and can't really give too much of an in depth review due to time constraints but aside from all the bugs. It's a pretty fun game to play. Lots of customizability options for your character. Both during creation and during level up process.

As you're playing you'll definitely be able too tell this was done by the same people who brought you KOTOR II.

Most people who are waiting to pick this up due to playing other games and such are on the right track considering how many bugs there are. After a few patches(The first one being 87 mb) it should be much more playable.

Sabek · Post by **Sabek** » November 9, 2006, 10:20 am

I am playing it.
The story seems deep and engaging.

The companion AI leaves a lot to be desired.

Overall I have been have a good time with it at this point.

noel · Post by **noel** » November 10, 2006, 2:19 am

Sabek wrote:I am playing it.
The story seems deep and engaging.

The companion AI leaves a lot to be desired.

Overall I have been have a good time with it at this point.

I agree on all counts. I'd add that it's slightly buggy, but not in a 'break the fucking DVD in half' kind of way. More in a 'Save your game often... (to compensate for lack of testing)' type of way.

I'm playing it as a human ranger with an archery focus (which might have been a mistake). Current party is Neeshka, Khelgar and the Druid who's name escapes me. Curious who you're rolling with and how you're doing... I'm debating dropping the Druid for the Wizard or Bard, but currently undecided.

Sabek · Post by **Sabek** » November 10, 2006, 8:38 am

I am playing an elven cleric.
I didn't really need the druid so at this point my stock party is kelghar, neeshka, and Quar the sorc.

Kryshade · Post by **Kryshade** » November 10, 2006, 12:28 pm

Is this game very similar to the original series? I played that one for a bit, but I just couldn't get sucked into it. I don't know if the action was too slow, the graphics were too blah, or if maybe I just didn't play it enough to get into it. I don't think I'm particularily a huge fan of overhead RPG's which could also have been it. I did however really like the premise behind the game, and the amount of gear/magic available. So has NWN2 improved on any of that? I thought about picking it up, but then decided against it until I hear more about it.... mainly is it just a sequel to the original with no major changes? Are the graphics improved? Have they done anything to speed up the actual gameplay?

noel · Post by **noel** » November 10, 2006, 3:50 pm

To me the only similarity between the original NWN (which I completed but didn't really like at all) and this one is the attempt to convert D&D rules (in this case 3.5e) to a computer game. The story in this game is about a million times better. The characters are far more interesting and there've been some neat plot elements that have occurred. I think the game was done by the people who did KOTOR and KOTOR2 (or maybe just 2), so that could explain it.

I'm seriously considering restarting with a more melee intensive character instead of an archer, but I can't really decide. I think Neeeshka makes a great rogue, so I feel like that's covered. Khelgar is a good enough fighter so that's good... To a certain extent I feel like the game expects you to play as a Cleric when you start.

noel · Post by **noel** » November 15, 2006, 2:27 am

Switching to a melee oriented ranger was definitely the right decision [for me]. Apparently archers are currently gimped a bit unless they opt to become Arcane Archers (which I have no interest in).

For anyone on the cusp with this game, I just finished Act 1, and I have to say that the quality of the story in this game is far beyond anything Bioware did in the Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale series and you're likely forget NWN1 in its entirety. The story is on par with KotOR and I highly recommend it.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » November 16, 2006, 2:37 pm

Speaking as someone who played NWN1 extensively and wrote some modules for it, it is embarressing to see how much they copied over, wholesale, from the first one. They evidently learned to code graphics at the same place the Vanguard guys did too, as this game runs like an absolute pile of shit, complete with glitches all over the place, even on the lowest of settings (wheras, I can run DOW: Dark Crusade or WoW at 1600x1200 with everything maxed and get absolutely no slowdown) and has some of the horendous animations I have ever seen. The customization options for characters (visually) are actually less than the previous one and they even recycled all of the music and voice files. The one thing they did actually revamp was the UI, but its the most encumbering piece of shit I have used since FFOnline.

On the development end, the new toolset is so overly complex that it basically requires a double monitor setup to run efficiently at all. The hotkeys are literally all of the opposite of the prior toolset and most of the essential simple functions are buried under layers of menus or button trees, making the creation of even a modest module an excercise in frustration.

I guess Obsidian got lazy. This game has essentially killed the franchise for me. This is what Atari gets for trying to get a cheaper deal with an overrated development house when they had a good thing going with Bioware. This game is sitting on the shelf for at least a year.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » November 16, 2006, 4:11 pm

So noel and sabek like it, and jice hates it. Must be a good game then.

noel · Post by **noel** » November 16, 2006, 4:53 pm

Jice Virago wrote:Speaking as someone who played NWN1 extensively and wrote some modules for it, it is embarressing to see how much they copied over, wholesale, from the first one. They evidently learned to code graphics at the same place the Vanguard guys did too, as this game runs like an absolute pile of shit, complete with glitches all over the place, even on the lowest of settings (wheras, I can run DOW: Dark Crusade or WoW at 1600x1200 with everything maxed and get absolutely no slowdown) and has some of the horendous animations I have ever seen. The customization options for characters (visually) are actually less than the previous one and they even recycled all of the music and voice files. The one thing they did actually revamp was the UI, but its the most encumbering piece of shit I have used since FFOnline.

On the development end, the new toolset is so overly complex that it basically requires a double monitor setup to run efficiently at all. The hotkeys are literally all of the opposite of the prior toolset and most of the essential simple functions are buried under layers of menus or button trees, making the creation of even a modest module an excercise in frustration.

I guess Obsidian got lazy. This game has essentially killed the franchise for me. This is what Atari gets for trying to get a cheaper deal with an overrated development house when they had a good thing going with Bioware. This game is sitting on the shelf for at least a year.

The UI does suck. The AI does suck. I've gotten used to both, but they're both inexcusable.

Out of curiosity, do you have an ATI or an NVIDIA card? I have a somewhat older system by today's standards: P4 3.4 (non duo), 7800GT, 2GB RAM, Vista RC2 and I'm having no issues like the ones you've described. I've heard that a lot of people with ATI cards are having problems though.

As far as the construction set... I've heard it's a fucking bear. I personally have zero interest in using it, but that sucks for people that do.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » November 16, 2006, 5:00 pm

Let me put it into terms you might grasp.

If KOTOR2 irritated you with how much it was KOTOR1 with a few bells tacked on (another series Obsidian coopted from Bioware), then this game will irritate you in the same manner. It will actuall bug you worse, since the game has lost a lot of basic functionality from the first one, especially if you were a module developer.

If the general buginess and over the top system requirements (for crap animations) of Luclin pissed you off, this game will annoy you, but not as much because it actually does run. Though, if you don't save frequently, you will wind up tossing your keyeboard across the room the first time the game hardlocks during a zone transition. It is a resource pig on the level of Vanguardness, with areas taking tripple or more the disk space that they did over NWN1, which makes developing modules in the community a bleak prospect, especially when coupled with the brutally unwieldy toolset.

If you never played the first game and have a bleeding edge system, you may like this game as a single player game, especially if you are into linear RPGs. Anyone who played the first and enjoyed it, however, is probably going to want to wait a year until they complete work on the game. The .NET shit is going to kill multiplayer on this thing, though, any way you look at it.

noel · Post by **noel** » November 16, 2006, 5:32 pm

I assume that was directed at Masteen.

One of the funny things I noticed was during one of the 'world transitions' it put up the helpful tip of 'Save Early and Save Often.'

I remember the first time I saw that message... back in '85 playing the original King's Quest 1 on a PC jr. The sad, but funny thing is... in that game, you saved early and often in case you fucked up. In this game, you save early and often in case the game shits itself. I've not personally had any hardware related bugs or crashes to desktop, but I've had several scripting fuckups that have sucked ass. Fortunately I've been saving early and often so I was ok, but it's still cost me a few minutes of my life.

Neziroth · Post by **Neziroth** » November 16, 2006, 8:46 pm

I almost picked this up the other day, but to me the system requirements looked monstrous. Granted, my PC is old, I can't afford a new one every few years. (2.4GHZ, 1024 ram, ATI X700 Pro) so I didn't bother.

I only wanted it for the toolset anyhow, but you guys just talked me out of that too.

No loss, I guess.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » November 16, 2006, 9:02 pm

Noel:
Yeah I was talking to Masteen. I run an Athlon processor, 2 Gigs and a Ge Force 6600 w 256 DDR Ram. Not exactly top of the line, but every other game (other than Vanguard) I own runs smooth as glass with everything cranked to the max. For a basis of comparison, I can play Dawn of War and have 100 things fighting on the screen (with lots of varied animations) and pan around with no slowdown at all, and that game uses a ton of visual effects.

I don't know what the fuck it is with this trend to make games that barely run at all on the current generation of computers. Vanguard at least has the excuse that it needs to look solid for its long life expectancy, but I don't care how fucking good a game looks. If it runs like shit, it's not going to be fun at all. If the UI maxes you feel like you are trying to program a 1978 Betamax VCR, its not going to be fun. Say what you want about games like WOW and Dark Messiah, but they didn't let fun get flooded out with their little ceiling pushing pissing war.

Nez:
The toolset has some interesting additions, but its a complete cluster fuck, as far as accessability is concerned. I run it on two 21" CRTs and I still feel claustraphobic. The sad thing is that most of the scripts in the toolset are direct lifts from the previous game or swiped from community submissions (complete with all the same comments) like the CEP from NWN Vault.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » November 17, 2006, 4:37 pm

I still don't understand why anyone even mentions Vanguard in relation to games that run poorly. It's beta. It's unoptimized beta. When it releases if it runs poorly, then use it in reference. As a beta, it runs pretty good.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » November 17, 2006, 4:44 pm

They aren't blaming Vangaurd for running poorly due to bugs, servers, etc. Just the amount of resources it takes to run it. That, will not change at all between beta and release, therefor it is completely relevant.

Deward · Post by **Deward** » November 17, 2006, 7:12 pm

Being the stingy bastard I am, I downloaded this game for a demo. I am glad I did because after several hours I am not impressed at all. It just seems like another one of those games where if you don't make the perfect build then you are screwed. One thing I have come to find very annoying in games is when you have to keep buying arrows or constant re-memorization of spells. That annoyed me about the diablo games too. It is just a way to slow down your progress through a game. I would much rather have a timer on skills.

Another thing I found annoying is the slowness of some combats. Case in point: I made a dwarf barbarian. He would enter combat, make one swing and then have to wait something like 5 seconds to take another swing. Seems like forever.

It won't last long on my machine and I am glad I didn't shell out $60 for it.

noel · Post by **noel** » November 17, 2006, 7:29 pm

Deward: This isn't meant as a flame but I think it's applicable in your case:

Scott Jennings AKA Lum the Mad wrote:Today on “People Unclear On The Concept”…

…1UP (by way of “Games for Windows”, formerly “Computer Gaming World”, and I’m all out of parentheticals) posted a review of Neverwinter Nights 2. The reviewer disliked it - not because of weak dialogue or heavy system requirements or a clunky user interface. No. The reviewer disliked it because in his opinion, D&D is obsolete.

A revelatory, polarizing experience that — in the wake of newer, better alternatives — makes you question the very notion of “RPG by numbers.” It foists Wizards of the Coast’s latest v3.5 D&D system (a molehill that’s become a mountain at this point) onto your hard drive with stunning fidelity, then tacks on dozens of artificial-looking areas vaguely linked by forget-table plot points you check off like grocery to-do’s.

These may well be valid points, but I’m not sure that in this case the reviewer is the target audience for this game. And frankly, considering Obsidian’s reputation for quality dialogue and storytelling, I’d expect considerably more than a few snarky asides in the midst of how superior you feel you are to the D&D ruleset addressing what appears to be a weak effort by them in this regard. That’s what I would want to see in a relevant review, not cracks about “OMG, not hit points and armor class AGAIN!” in, um, a licensed D&D product.

Perhaps the next review can be a negative review of “Company of Heroes” because, really, haven’t we seen ENOUGH Germans in World War 2? Wait, I know, how about a review of Civilization 4, which complains about how you can’t zoom in like in Dynasty Warriors and fight the battles yourself. That would be AWESOME.

I'm glad you saved money on it, instead of buying it, but it is a D&D game. The rounds you don't like, the spell memorization you don't like... that's all D&D core rules... If you don't like the D&D concept, you'd never like a game it was based on.

TheDarkreigns · Post by **TheDarkreigns** » November 21, 2006, 11:51 am

Well after a week of trying to play through the bugs, having to start over...and constantly having to re-install. I have officially given up on trying to play this game due to the obscene amount of bugs in this game. The game itself I probably would find to be very fun and the story is pretty good so far but not good enough to keep me playing.

Figure I'll wait a few months till a lot of the bugs are gone. Time to start on Final Fantasy XII!