war with iran

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redeemed
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war with iran

Post by redeemed »

email from my mom so don't be too mean ;)
(she highlighted what I made bold)
Does Bush Think War with Iran Is Preordained?
By Chris Hedges, Truthdig. Posted October 10, 2006.

The Christian right sees an apocalyptic nuclear war with Iran as a vision set forth in the Bible. Bush himself may be a believer, too.

The aircraft carrier Eisenhower, accompanied by the guided-missile cruiser USS Anzio, guided-missile destroyer USS Ramage, guided-missile destroyer USS Mason and the fast-attack submarine USS Newport News, is, as I write, making its way to the Straits of Hormuz off Iran. The ships will be in place to strike Iran by the end of the month. It may be a bluff. It may be a feint. It may be a simple show of American power. But I doubt it.

War with Iran -- a war that would unleash an apocalyptic scenario in the Middle East -- is probable by the end of the Bush administration. It could begin in as little as three weeks. This administration, claiming to be anointed by a Christian God to reshape the world, and especially the Middle East, defined three states at the start of its reign as "the Axis of Evil." They were Iraq, now occupied; North Korea, which, because it has nuclear weapons, is untouchable; and Iran. Those who do not take this apocalyptic rhetoric seriously have ignored the twisted pathology of men like Elliott Abrams, who helped orchestrate the disastrous and illegal contra war in Nicaragua, and who now handles the Middle East for the National Security Council. He knew nothing about Central America. He knows nothing about the Middle East. He sees the world through the childish, binary lens of good and evil, us and them, the forces of darkness and the forces of light. And it is this strange, twilight mentality that now grips most of the civilian planners who are barreling us towards a crisis of epic proportions.

These men advocate a doctrine of permanent war, a doctrine which, as William R. Polk points out, is a slight corruption of Leon Trotsky's doctrine of permanent revolution. These two revolutionary doctrines serve the same function, to intimidate and destroy all those classified as foreign opponents, to create permanent instability and fear and to silence domestic critics who challenge leaders in a time of national crisis. It works. The citizens of the United States, slowly being stripped of their civil liberties, are being herded sheep-like, once again, over a cliff.

But this war will be different. It will be catastrophic. It will usher in the apocalyptic nightmares spun out in the dark, fantastic visions of the Christian right. And there are those around the president who see this vision as preordained by God; indeed, the president himself may hold such a vision.

The hypocrisy of this vaunted moral crusade is not lost on those in the Middle East. Iran actually signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. It has violated a codicil of that treaty written by European foreign ministers, but this codicil was never ratified by the Iranian parliament. I do not dispute Iran's intentions to acquire nuclear weapons nor do I minimize the danger should it acquire them in the estimated five to 10 years. But contrast Iran with Pakistan, India and Israel. These three countries refused to sign the treaty and developed nuclear weapons programs in secret. Israel now has an estimated 400 to 600 nuclear weapons. The word "Dimona," the name of the city where the nuclear facilities are located in Israel, is shorthand in the Muslim world for the deadly Israeli threat to Muslims' existence. What lessons did the Iranians learn from our Israeli, Pakistani and Indian allies?
Given that we are actively engaged in an effort to destabilize the Iranian regime by recruiting tribal groups and ethnic minorities inside Iran to rebel, given that we use apocalyptic rhetoric to describe what must be done to the Iranian regime, given that other countries in the Middle East such as Egypt and Saudi Arabia are making noises about developing a nuclear capacity, and given that, with the touch of a button Israel could obliterate Iran, what do we expect from the Iranians? On top of this, the Iranian regime grasps that the doctrine of permanent war entails making "preemptive" and unprovoked strikes.

Those in Washington who advocate this war, knowing as little about the limitations and chaos of war as they do about the Middle East, believe they can hit about 1,000 sites inside Iran to wipe out nuclear production and cripple the 850,000-man Iranian army. The disaster in southern Lebanon, where the Israeli air campaign not only failed to break Hezbollah but united most Lebanese behind the militant group, is dismissed. These ideologues, after all, do not live in a reality-based universe. The massive Israeli bombing of Lebanon failed to pacify 4 million Lebanese. What will happen when we begin to pound a country of 70 million people? As retired General Wesley K. Clark and others have pointed out, once you begin an air campaign it is only a matter of time before you have to put troops on the ground or accept defeat, as the Israelis had to do in Lebanon. And if we begin dropping bunker busters, cruise missiles and iron fragmentation bombs on Iran this is the choice that must be faced -- either sending American forces into Iran to fight a protracted and futile guerrilla war or walking away in humiliation.

"As a people we are enormously forgetful," Dr. Polk, one of the country's leading scholars on the Middle East, told an Oct. 13 gathering of the Foreign Policy Association in New York. "We should have learned from history that foreign powers can't win guerrilla wars. The British learned this from our ancestors in the American Revolution and re-learned it in Ireland. Napoleon learned it in Spain. The Germans learned it in Yugoslavia. We should have learned it in Vietnam and the Russians learned it in Afghanistan and are learning it all over again in Chechnya and we are learning it, of course, in Iraq. Guerrilla wars are almost unwinnable. As a people we are also very vain. Our way of life is the only way. We should have learned that the rich and powerful can't always succeed against the poor and less powerful."

An attack on Iran will ignite the Middle East. The loss of Iranian oil, coupled with Silkworm missile attacks by Iran on oil tankers in the Persian Gulf, could send oil soaring to well over $110 a barrel. The effect on the domestic and world economy will be devastating, very possibly triggering a huge, global depression. The 2 million Shiites in Saudi Arabia, the Shiite majority in Iraq and the Shiite communities in Bahrain, Pakistan and Turkey will turn in rage on us and our dwindling allies. We will see a combination of increased terrorist attacks, including on American soil, and the widespread sabotage of oil production in the Gulf. Iraq, as bad as it looks now, will become a death pit for American troops as Shiites and Sunnis, for the first time, unite against their foreign occupiers.

The country, however, that will pay the biggest price will be Israel. And the sad irony is that those planning this war think of themselves as allies of the Jewish state. A conflagration of this magnitude could see Israel drawn back in Lebanon and sucked into a regional war, one that would over time spell the final chapter in the Zionist experiment in the Middle East. The Israelis aptly call their nuclear program "the Samson option." The Biblical Samson ripped down the pillars of the temple and killed everyone around him, along with himself.

If you are sure you will be raptured into heaven, your clothes left behind with the nonbelievers, then this news should cheer you up. If you are rational, however, these may be some of the last few weeks or months in which to enjoy what is left of our beleaguered, dying republic and way of life.

Chris Hedges is the former Middle East bureau chief for The New York Times and the author of "War Is a Force That Gives Us Meaning."
sorry for not having a link~
I just thought it was interesting
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Post by Marbus »

Very scary, as a Christian, it's even more scary because IMHO these people, like George Bush, think they can somehow minipulate God to make things work out best for them. Often God chooses not to use the most powerful procifent person but rather the meek and humble... America right now, no matter what we profess to believe, is definitely not that.

I find it quite interesting, and I have studied apocolyptic literature, primarily the Bible, since childhood, that out of so many interperations possible, people seem to pick the most distructive and turn a blind eye to any other possibility. In Revelation it says that not even the Angels in Heaven know the time... but my guess is that GWB sure thinks he does. I'm not sure if that statement though is scary, sad, funny or just disgusting.

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Post by vn_Tanc »

But James Baker is advising Bush to start a phased withdawal from Iraq to allow the Iraqi govt. to start co-ordinating with Iran and Syria in an attempt to fix the godawful mess us westerners have made of liberating the place.

Seems odd to want to bomb them at the same time.

Saw a hilarious cartoon last week though. Bush holding a newspaper with the headline "N Korea A-Bomb Test!" and Bush saying "I know! We'll attack Iran!"
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Post by Vaemas »

The cartoon would be nearly as funny if I didn't think that was actually going through his head. While I'd like to believe that Bush was a better pick than Gore or Kerry...that fucker scares me now.
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Post by Lalanae »

Vaemas wrote:While I'd like to believe that Bush was a better pick than Gore or Kerry...that fucker scares me now.
So he scares you, but you still would "like to believe" you made the right choice voting for him instead of Gore or Kerry?

The strength of human delusion and denial amazes me.
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Post by Nick »

Vaemas wrote:While I'd like to believe that Bush was a better pick than Gore or Kerry
It's that exact mindset that's responsible for this mess.
Last edited by Nick on October 20, 2006, 5:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Marbus »

I think he means that he would like to believe it but knows it's not true. As long as he knows that and it helps he make the right choice next time (ie learning from mistakes) that's a good thing.

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Post by miir »

Marbus wrote:I think he means that he would like to believe it but knows it's not true.
Like some people would like to believe that OJ was innocent? :roll:
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Post by Nick »

I hope so, it's tiring beyond belief to have to rub your eyes in shock every time you read someone claiming that Kerry or Gore wouldn't have done a better job than the disgrace Bush has managed to burden the USA with over the last 6 years.
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Post by Tuddi2 »

religion has for the larger communities brought more misery then anything else through history.

for the single person it has filled some void or brought hope/comfort, but weighing those 2 things against each other tells me one thing.

religion should be banned ... pfff
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Post by Vaemas »

Lalanae wrote:
Vaemas wrote:While I'd like to believe that Bush was a better pick than Gore or Kerry...that fucker scares me now.
So he scares you, but you still would "like to believe" you made the right choice voting for him instead of Gore or Kerry?

The strength of human delusion and denial amazes me.
To clarify:
Vaemas wrote:While I thought Bush was a better pick than Gore or Kerry...that fucker scares me now.
I'm not in denial. In fact, I've got a better grip on the situation than you give me credit. At the time of the elections, I thought Bush was a better choice than Gore or Kerry. If I knew then what I know now, I'd have voted differently. I don't think either of them could have fucked things up any worse than this.

I'm probably one of the few people who voted for Bush that's got balls enough to say, "What the fuck was I thinking?" Based on what I knew then, I thought Bush was the better choice. I voted the way I thought was best. I'm unhappy with the decisions that have been made to undermine the rights of citizens and the Constitution as a whole in the name of "security."

I'm not a staunch Republican and I've got nothing against the Democrats. I live in a vastly conservative region of the United States and the people who live in this area are the ones who equate Bush with Jesus (ala, "If you don't believe in George Bush, you just don't believe in Jesus").

These are the delusional individuals. They're the uneducated, backwoods, far right religious wackos who believe that Bush is the incarnation of God's will and can do no wrong.
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Post by Nick »

I feel for you mate, sounds horrific :oops:
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