Samsung HL-S6186W

[Siji]

Samsung Link

Anyone by any chance have any experience with the '86 DLP HDTV series by Samsung? I've done a bit of research and DLP projection seems the way to go for my needs. This one is 720p which I'm thinking is fine. Everything I've read seems to indicate there's not much use (yet) for 1080p sets. And for the $500+ extra that the 1080p costs on the same model ('87 series), I don't think there's enough of a difference. I've seen this in the store and while in my opinion it's really hard to judge a TV by how a store has it set up (or badly set up), it seemed pretty friggin nice.

My main use will be for DVDs and cable TV via a HD cable box (mostly normal programming however as opposed to HD stations). I probably won't have my consoles on this one, but I'm guessing they'll look sweet when I do play in this room.

I've never bought a TV in this price range, so I'm wanting to get opinions if anyone has any personal experience on big screen Samsungs or this particular series of sets.

Also, anyone have (and preferrably had to use) an extended warranty from either Best Buy or Circuit City and have an opinion on if there's a difference or which is easier to work with in the case of trouble? The price is about the same at both places, but BB doesn't charge for delivery, so I'm leaning towards going with them. I've never really been a fan of CC anyway. I do know or read at least, that the CC extended warranty covers the cost of the first replacement bulb, so that might be something to consider if BB's does not.

Thanks in advance!

[Midgen]

You might want to search around over at http://avsforum.com.

There is a ton of info over there. The newer sets (87's and 88's) are getting a TON of discussion.

I just upgraded from a panasonic 50" DLP to a 56" sammy DLP 1080p. I'm probably jumping the gun a bit, but the 87 series in particular are getting pretty cheap since the 88's came out. The 88's have cablecard (1.0), QAM tuner and PIP, but are otherwise pretty much identical to the 87's. Since I use an HD Cable DVR, I don't really need any of those things.

My father and sister both have 42" 86's and they both love them, of course they both upgraded from 27" CRT's, so they were easily impressed.

I helped them get set up. They suffer from the same problem most all of the samsung DLP's suffer from. They are awesome display's but out of the box the picture is way too hot (bright).

Over at avsforum, one of the pro calibrators (Eliab) posted a good set of user settings for these sets (to use as a starting point).

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthre ... ost7929165

Digital NR - OFF
DNIe - Off
Mode - Movie
Contrast - 40
Brightness - 45
Sharpness - 0
Color - 45
Tint - G50/R50
Color Tone - Warm2

This thread is on the 87 series, but I used the same settings for my fathers 4266 and it looks great.

Honestly though if you want the most out of these displays, you'll probably want to include the cost of professional calibration. These are usually done after 100 hours or so. Everyone who has had this done raves about these sets. Off the street price for a full service menu calibration runs around $400-$600 depending on how thorough they are and what kind of equipment they use.

You can get the service menu remote codes off of the forums, but I've looked at mine, and there is no way you can do this yourself. And there is no reset to default function, so if you screw something up in the service menu, you will end up paying for a service call. Not only that, to properly calibrate you really need a light meter and colorimiter (which isn't cheap), and know how to use them.


Edit:
Here is the Samsung 720p HL-S owners thread.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=671006

It's only 27 pages. The 87/88 series threads are all over 500 pages now. The number of posts per day on that site blows me away!.

Edit2:
Something to think about. The one comment I hear quite a bit is that you really start to see the benefit of 1080p (over 720p) when you get into the displays of 60" and up. The extra resolution apparently really makes a difference.

Edit3: I just re-read your post. I would give some serious thought to spending that kind of money on a set that big if you are primarily looking at SD sources. This is the one area these sets are a bit weak in, especially the bigger ones. If you are going from a smaller CRT to basically the equivalent of a 50" CRT, but still basically viewing the same number of horizontal lines (480). They can get really grainy, especially at the bigger sized. Id definitely try to spend some time watching them with this type of source connected (standard DVD, or SD Cable) before you buy. I'd also recommend you buy somewhere you can return it (and get service calls made) in case you run into trouble. The cheaper places online (i.e. amazon.com) won't let you send any set over 27" back to them once you've accepted delivery. You'll be stuck with Warranty calls. Quite a few people are shelling out cash for extended warranties because of this (I did not).

[Siji]

Something to think about. The one comment I hear quite a bit is that you really start to see the benefit of 1080p (over 720p) when you get into the displays of 60" and up. The extra resolution apparently really makes a difference.

From what I've read, the main difference would be in the blacks.. the 720p's crush more than then 1080p's or something. When talking a 56" set, the price difference is only $300.. but when talking about the 61" set, you're talking about an extra $700.. that's higher than I can go. But of course the opinion seems to be that's where you need it more.

So I guess the question comes to.. get a 1080p 56" or a 720p 61" for $10 less.

Also - I mentioned BB & CC as those are both the only local stores that I found that sold these sets at their price range. I'm not comfortable buying extended warranties through non-local stores. And I read that BB's warranty also covers the first bulb replacement.. so there's half the cost of the ext warranty itself.

[Midgen]

The 720p vs 1080p is a tough question.

I have the 1080p 56" set and it's freakin huge. Almost too big. I had to move my chair back so I didn't feel like the set was right on top of me.

The advantage of going 1080p is that it's a bit more future proof. AT least that is the justification I used to make this decision. I knew I would be putting an HD DVD player on my shopping list within the next 12 months, and some TV is already being broadcast in 1080p (ESPN Studio stuff for example). I would imagine the next generation of video sources (Tivo's, Sat Receivers, cableboxes, etc....) will have 1080p HDCP/HDMI ports.
I'm pretty sure that it will be the standard, for a couple of years at least.

With the broadcasts coming over cable today, I would agree that the 720p set is probably a better value. The question you have to ask is what will you be watching 2 or 3 years from now?

Edit:
Damn, this thing is $300 cheaper than it was two weeks ago.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp ... 8085317109

That's an awefully good deal for a 1080p samsung DLP.

[Midgen]

Oh, and for anyone looking for connectors of any kind (Audio/Video/Network, etc...)

I highly recommend these guys.

http://www.monoprice.com

Their HDMI-HDMI and HDMI-DVI cables are freaking CHEAP compared to anyone else I've seen, and they are awesome in terms of quality. I have quite a few of them on my gear and never had a problem.

They also guarantee everything. One of the owners posts quite a bit over at avsforum, and he's helped out quite a few folks, and works with people individually to get any issues resolved.

Definitely worth a look.

[Winnow]

With the broadcasts coming over cable today, I would agree that the 720p set is probably a better value. The question you have to ask is what will you be watching 2 or 3 years from now?

You'll probably be receiving the same poor signals in two or three years. I bought my first HDTV in 2001. Since then, I've bought several more HDTVs and nothing's improved with HD broadcasts from OTA (over-the-air) or Sat/Cable. DirecTV, Dish, and cable companies are having a hell of a time with bandwidth atm. Even when DirecTV finally gets all their satellites up and moves everyone over to mpeg4 receivers, they won't be providing the best transmission of HD. I'd still get 1080P at this point though, unless your talking front projectors with which 1080P is still too expensive. Most people don't upgrade that often so it's probably worth it to spend a few extra bucks.

The only place it might matter is with HD-DVD or BluRay where you'll be able to get a high bandwidth (high Mb/per second) data flow...well for HD-DVD at least that's using VC-1. Blu Ray is still using the old mgep2 codec on their disks atm so it takes more space and still looks worse than HD-DVD at the moment.

also, keep in mind:

What content is available in 1080p?

Really, nothing at this point. Today's high-def broadcasts are done in either 1080i or 720p, and there's little or no chance they'll jump to 1080p any time soon because of bandwidth issues. Meanwhile, some newly announced DVD players from Denon and NeuNeo (who?) are claiming to upconvert standard DVD movies to 1080p resolution, but that's a far cry from native high-def content.

First off, there are very few if any sources for 1080p available. 2nd, on a 1080p capable display, 1080i and 1080p would look virtually identical, as both are 30 frames per second. 1080i is 60 fields (half frames) per second which equates to 30. There is currently no spec in HDTV standards for 60 fps 1080p.

Also, you wouldn't see the difference on your plasma anyhow as it is a 720p display. There are very few 1080p plasmas and they are $10k or more. There are some smaller LCD panels from Westinghouse and others that are 1080p and for big screens your choices are pretty much limited to the D-ILA and Sony's SXRD, both of which are LCoS technologies. There are currently no LCD based RPTVs that are 1080P.

Also, while DLP makers market their displays as 1080P, they are IN FACT, not 1080P. They use 720P chips and a process called wobulation to approximate 1080P, but you can readily see the difference when seeing a DLP system next to a same size SXRD system.

1080 = 1920 x 1080 pixels | 720 = 1280 x 720 pixels

Till recently, HDTVs were either 720p or 1080i. Most TV transmissions were 1080i. I believe ABC adopted 720p because it would have shown sports with better pictures. I also remember back when Panasonic Broadcast underwrote ABC (as 720p) – or at least Monday Night Football. Fox and ESPN now also do 720P. The others are 1080i.

The new 1080p sets don’t have the front end circuitry to actually receive that resolution. But, again, nothing is transmitting that res anyway. What the advantage is, is how these sets show 1080i – they have the pixel count to do it without trouble. They deinterlace the transmission and present it full frame without throwing away any detail. A 720p set has to downconvert a 1080i signal. In that downconversion you can lose some detail.

(BUT) OH SAY CAN YOU SEE?

But there’s a more important issue – can you really see the difference in resolution between 1080i and 1080p? Tests of visual acuity to determine the resolution required of a television transmission system by the BBC’s J.O. Drewery and R. Salmon determined that at 9 feet, a 50 inch screen at 720p’s resolution will give you all the resolution you can see! At 9 feet, a 56 incher needs 1080i to avoid seeing the pixel structure. If you sit farther or closer, you may need more resolution.

1080i vs 720p: MOTION CHANGES EVERYTHING

Motion is different issue. If you want to see motion clearly, then live action 720p is what looks best, compared to 1080i. Here’s why: the information content of 720p is about the same as 1080i, though what it lacks in spatial resolution, it makes up for in temporal resolution (because the picture is at 1/60th of a second, not 1/30th x 2.) On 1080i, this would show as flickered or jagged edges on bright horizontal objects (like in the background of a camera pan.)

[Siji]

The 720p vs 1080p is a tough question.

I have the 1080p 56" set and it's freakin huge. Almost too big. I had to move my chair back so I didn't feel like the set was right on top of me.

The room this is going into is 20x20, so I figure I'll be sitting at least 15 feet away from the screen when sitting on the couch watching TV. Maybe a bit closer if I'm on the floor playing a console (which would be rarely since that's going elsewhere). So depending on what you read it's debatable whether you'd see a difference at that distance between 720p and 1080p.. But one thing that does seem to stand out from the threads you referred me to, is that on the 1080p sets, the blacks are better and you don't get that 'crushing' thing they talk about. Since the girlfriend is a big CSI freak and that show is always in the dark, she'd probably get rather irritable if the dark parts of the screen were always blocky or crushed so bad you couldn't make out the details.

The difference between 56 and 61 aren't all that great size wise.. so if the picture is better for giving up 5 diag inches, it seems worth it. So I'd pretty much decided on the HL-S5687W like you have..

..until Winnow's post. Now I'm confused again. One of the big reasons I'm not looking at plasma is that I want this to be the last TV I purchase for a decent number of years. So I don't want to have to deal with upgrading or replacing more than a bulb. If that means leaning towards the 1080p version, even if it's just as close to 1080p as it gets these days, then it seems the right choice. I can't afford a new set of this size every 5 years or so.

Damn, this thing is $300 cheaper than it was two weeks ago.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp ... 8085317109

That's an awefully good deal for a 1080p samsung DLP.

Note, that's the HL-S5686W that you quoted.. the 720p version. Here's the HL-S5687W link. The 6187's are $620 more than that one.. that's the jump I can't make.

[Midgen]

Winnow, mind giving out the sources of this information?

Go check out the Samsung DLP owners threads over at avsforum (there are several) and read the comments from the pro calibrators there. They all pretty much agree that once properly adjusted, that the samsung DLP screens are as good as it gets, at least in their price range. Most of them have them in their homes. There are probably more than 1000 pages of posts on the Samsung sets there.

And I'm definitely not an expert on "Wobulation" (and *really* don't care), but based on what I've read from various places online, I'm pretty sure the explanation you posted is inaccurate.

The reason I say I don't care about the 'wobulation' issue is simple. Firstly, the proof is in the pudding. The Samsungs picture is awesome!. Second, Wobulation wasn't invented so that manufactures could claim a higher screen resolution than what they actually have. The technology was created to reduce the 'screen door' effect by eliminating the dead space between the pixel rows and columns. This contributes significantly to the picture quality of these samsung sets.

http://www.popsci.com/popsci/bown/2004/ ... 10,00.html

DLP (Digital Light Processing), a low-cost leader in big-screen HDTV technology, uses a chip with thousands of micromirrors to display pictures. But there’s a limit to how small the mirrors can become and still produce a good image. Texas Instruments, which makes the DLP chips, maxed out with its 1,280-by-720 array, short of the highest-quality HD resolution of 1,920 by 1,080 pixels. So HP created Wobulation, a technique that takes advantage of the fact that TI’s new DLP mirrors can oscillate every 1/120 of a second to create a series of overlapping pixels, which the eye melds together. The result is two visible pixels for each physical mirror, or a true 1,920-by-1,080 picture. Available late next year

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wobulation

While wobulation can in theory be used in many types of display devices, it is currently primarily used in displays using Digital Light Processing (DLP). DLP is a Texas Instruments (TI) technology which relies on a Digital Micromirror Device (DMD) chip. TI calls its implementation of wobulation 'SmoothPicture'. Horizontal wobulation used in current TI products allows a DMD chip with a 960x1080 mirror array to produce a 1920x1080 pixel picture. Also, the image overlap inherent in the use of wobulation eliminates the 'screen door' effect common on other fixed pixel displays such as plasma and LCD, but may in some implementations also create some reduction in sharpness. Wobulation is used by a number of TV manufacturers, including Hewlett-Packard, Mitsubishi, RCA, Samsung, and Toshiba.

In its current implementation Wobulation is used only to double the horizontal resolution of a display. However, Wobulation is currently capable of doubling the vertical and horizontal resolution of an image (2x wobulation). HP has 4x wobulation, or quadrupling in the horizontal and vertical directions, planned for the future.

I suspect that this technology will be used extensively for the foreseeable future for rptv.

[Midgen]

Damn, this thing is $300 cheaper than it was two weeks ago.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp ... 8085317109

That's an awefully good deal for a 1080p samsung DLP.

Note, that's the HL-S5686W that you quoted.. the 720p version. Here's the HL-S5687W link. The 6187's are $620 more than that one.. that's the jump I can't make.

D'oh.. Sorry about that. I was looking those up on my way out the door from work.

/selfbonk

[Aslanna]

Damn, this thing is $300 cheaper than it was two weeks ago.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp ... 8085317109

That's an awefully good deal for a 1080p samsung DLP.

Note, that's the HL-S5686W that you quoted.. the 720p version. Here's the HL-S5687W link. The 6187's are $620 more than that one.. that's the jump I can't make.

After adding each to cart and comparing, it looks like at the present time it's only about $350 more. Not as bad as $620!

[Midgen]

After adding each to cart and comparing, it looks like at the present time it's only about $350 more. Not as bad as $620!

He's actually talking about 3 different sets there. He linked the 56" 1080p set to compare to the 56" 720p set I linked. The $620 was comparing the 720p I linked to the 61" 1080p set, which was not linked.

Just to clarify, here are the 3 prices as they are when in the shopping cart.

Samsung 56" DLP HDTV (720p)
Model: HL-S5686W
$1709

Samsung 56" 1080p DLP HDTV
Model: HL-S5687W
2,079.99

Samsung 61" 1080p DLP HDTV
Model: HL-S6187W
$2,699.99

[Winnow]

And I'm definitely not an expert on "Wobulation" (and *really* don't care), but based on what I've read from various places online, I'm pretty sure the explanation you posted is inaccurate.

The reason I say I don't care about the 'wobulation' issue is simple. Firstly, the proof is in the pudding. The Samsungs picture is awesome!

I'm sure the Samsung picture is great and that's what matters. It's a technical comment. Whichever TV ends up with the best looking picture, no matter how it does it, is the one to get. There's more involved with the Samsung's picture looking great than the wobulation. I haven't seen a 1080p wobulation vs non wobulation report to comment.

Back when wobulation first made it to DLP sets we where in the 720p realm (1080p was still a dream.) The 720p non-wobulated sets produced a sharper image then the 720p wobulated set which had what most described as a softer image. The results from most polls had it at about 3/4 preferring the non-wobulated sets and 1/8 preferring the wobulated sets and 1/8 not being able to tell the difference.

I expect that you'll probably see the same kind of opinions with the 1080p wobulated vs non-wobulated. But you'll probably see a higher percentage in the 'Can't tell the difference' catagory because as the resolution increases the sharpness is more in the resolution than in the pixels (given same screen size and sitting distance.)

http://www.neowin.net/forum/lofiversion ... 54521.html

Wobulation

No, that’s not an HDTV manufacturer. That’s an important topic that should be mentioned when discussing DLP technology. All this 1080p magic found at a relatively low price (compared to a 1080p LCD HDTV) on DLP televisions is the result of a visual trickery known as “wobulation”.

Wobulation is a resolution enhancement technology invented by Hewlett Packard based on their experience with printing inks. This technology allows image resolution to be increased without the need to increase the number of physical pixels.

Although the technology can be used with any type of display, wobulation has only been implemented in microdisplay technology. When wobulation is combined with Texas Instruments’ DLP technology, the result is an economical method of enhancing the resolution of the displays without increasing the number of micro mirrors.

You have probably heard of the wobulation technology with its commercial name: Smooth Picture, is basically horizontal wobulation designed to produce a 1080p (1920x1080) picture with just 960x1080 mirrors; that’s half the horizontal micro-mirrors. Smooth Picture is currently used by Samsung, Toshiba, Mitsubishi and, of course, HP.

Picture without wobulation:

Picture with wobulation:


Wobulation works under the same principle of interlacing, showing half an image at a time, but at such a fast rate that the eye is fooled into viewing the entire picture. The technology generates two sub-images, each one having half the horizontal pixels (960) of the original image (1920). The 960 micro-mirrors tilts at a rate (120 times per second) that allows each one to generate two pixels, 60 times per second. That’s how 960 micromirrors can generate 1920 pixels on the screen at 60 frames per second.

The downside of this technology is that it reduces sharpness since the 1920x1080 image displayed on the screen is not painted by the same amount of physical micro-mirrors. On the other hand, this technology eliminates the “screen door effect” artifact, in which the viewer can perceive the pixel grid where the image is created.

Ultimately, wobulation has allowed 1080p DLP displays to be released at a lower price than competing technologies. While the cheapest 1080p Sharp Aquos, the 45” LC-45GX6U, costs $2,999.99, that same amount of money will get you a 56” or larger 1080p DLP.

stand back and view those two images from a distance.

The link above is a good read on 1080P/HD

[Aslanna]

Ah, got it now!

Not sure I personally would spend $600 more just for a picture that's 5" larger. Assuming that's the only difference.

[Midgen]

so, while DLP makers market their displays as 1080P, they are IN FACT, not 1080P. They use 720P chips and a process called wobulation to approximate 1080P, but you can readily see the difference when seeing a DLP system next to a same size SXRD system.

This is the statement that I guess I take exception to. I guess it's up to your interpretation of the technology to decide whether you can say the 1080p DLP technology is a 'true' 1080p or not. Again, I don't really care.

After doing a *lot* of research, mostly into actual user experiences, I made the decision to go with the Samsung 1080p set, based on size, quality, and over all value. I did it despite statements like the one I quoted above, which can usually be attributed to someone who has a vested interest in selling a lot of the very expensive 'true' 1080p sets like the 42" Sharp model that was quoted selling for $3k.

[Winnow]

After doing a *lot* of research, mostly into actual user experiences, I made the decision to go with the Samsung 1080p set, based on size, quality, and over all value. I did it despite statements like the one I quoted above, which can usually be attributed to someone who has a vested interest in selling a lot of the very expensive 'true' 1080p sets like the 42" Sharp model that was quoted selling for $3k.

I'm not bashing your decision to go with a 1080P DLP. I'm using a 720P projector and love it. $$ does play a factor. You got bang for your buck.

I think the Xbox 360 (and HD feeds) look awesome on my Dell 2405 LCD in 1080P but there's no way I'd make that my primary TV/Movie display over my 120" projector and I wouldn't pay $10-24K for a 1080P projector although it would be nice to have that 1920X1200 resolution up on the wall while in PC mode surfing the net or playing a game on the big screen. The difference between 720p and 1080p = 1.5K vs 10K. Next year, or the year after, that will change when I'm ready to upgrade again, hopefully to a laser HD projector. You can't put off buying HD forever...you are slowly dying. I don't see the point in waiting too long to buy things that will enhance your life except for when there are significant advances or price drops forecast in the near future.

http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/news/ar ... _4411.html

http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-ent ... 181768.php

http://www.plasmavision.com/lcd_projector.htm


hmmm wait a sec...3K for a full 1080P projector soon. Prices dropping!

http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/10/11/ep ... -hdmi-1-3/

[Siji]

Ah, got it now!

Not sure I personally would spend $600 more just for a picture that's 5" larger. Assuming that's the only difference.

It's not 5" you're getting for that $600 jump, it's 1080p over 720p. I'm trying to decide between $10 more for a 1080p 56" or $10 less for a 720p 61"? That dear Watson, is the question. Presently, I think I'm just going to go with the 56" 1080.


Samsung 56" 1080p DLP HDTV
Model: HL-S5687W
2,079.99

or

Samsun 61" 720p DLP HDTV
Model: HL-S6186W
2,069.99

The $ jump to stay with 61" but get 1080p..

Samsung 61" 1080p DLP HDTV
Model: HL-S6187W
$2,699.99

[Aslanna]

It's not 5" you're getting for that $600 jump, it's 1080p over 720p. I'm trying to decide between $10 more for a 1080p 56" or $10 less for a 720p 61"? That dear Watson, is the question. Presently, I think I'm just going to go with the 56" 1080.


Samsung 56" 1080p DLP HDTV
Model: HL-S5687W
2,079.99

Samsung 61" 1080p DLP HDTV
Model: HL-S6187W
$2,699.99

That's the jump I was talking about. They are both 1080p. Just one is 61" And it's $600 more. Am I missing something here? I wasn't referring to your dilemma in particular. Was more just a general comment.

[Raistin]

I have the Samsung 61" 1080p DLP HDTV HL-S6187W. It had the best picture compared to all the plasmas and the lcds. I spent 3 hours making them move everything around so I could compare. In the end, the Samsung won.

The only issue I have with it is to have the best picture from it, you need to be about 7-10 feet back. My couch is 7 feet away atm till I can re wire my system, but it still looks great. I mean I dont see any lil squares of blurry sides. Just the further back you are, the sharper it is.

You can tell a diffrence between 61" and 56". With this TV, the HD shows/dvds if you dont have Blu-ray, the screen is normally cut down to 3-4 inches on every side. But you can expand it with no issues with the picture and keep the same quality.

so, while DLP makers market their displays as 1080P, they are IN FACT, not 1080P. They use 720P chips and a process called wobulation to approximate 1080P, but you can readily see the difference when seeing a DLP system next to a same size SXRD system.

I know for a fact the Samsung IS 1080p. Its when they say its 1080I its really a 720p chip, it just converts it by expanding the pixels to give a better crispness but no where as close to a 1080p.

TV networks dont send out the 1080p yet because it takes up too much bandwidth/IE costs too much. But I would say within a year it will be the main one.Although its a lil pricey for a 1080p compared to 1080i or 720s, I think the price will either go up, or newer ones will cost more when everything converts over.

So, the only 1080P items you can take advantage of is the Blu-Ray movies that you need the player for. But its well worth it if its a hobby of yours. I'm picking mine up tomarrow.

[Siji]

I ended up getting the 61" 1080p due to sale changes and such. And I figured I didn't want to replace anytime in the future as well as the fact that I'm sitting at least 15' away from the screen..

So far it's nice, I just need to find where I packed all my cables so I can finish hooking everything up. So far I've only found my component cables and connected the HD cable box to check it out, and a non-progressive / older DVD player to look. It looks pretty boo boo kitty fuck sweet so far though.

Now to figure out how to convert my second PC into an HTPC and go from there..

[Midgen]

Excellent choices...

If you havn't already, check out this post by docrings over at avsforum

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=697413

Lots of resources for these sets.

One of the pro calibrators posted his recommended 'starting point settings'.

"Congrats on your new display! Here are some settings that you may want to use that'll likely render a more accurate image.

Digital NR - OFF
DNIe - Off
Mode - Movie
Contrast - 40
Brightness - 45
Sharpness - 0
Color - 45
Tint - G50/R50
Color Tone - Warm2

Circuit City is having a huge sale on the 87 series right now.