Flags

[Siji]

I'm curious what people's opinions are on the Planes of Power flags now that everyone has had the opportunity to deal with them.

We know there are buggy encounters where you don't get a chance to have everyone hail for a flag. We know people can still be dying and fighting when they need to be getting a flag. We know that flags can be a pain in the ass to get.

But do you think they're a good idea? Do you like them better than getting keys? How would you change them if you were the one in charge? Should the flags be as hard as they are to get?

[Voronwë]

i wouldnt say necessarily they are a bad implementation, but i dont love them.

i think if they just added a minor feature allowing guild leaders to bank a couple flags from certain boss mob kills to distribute at a later time, and it would alleviate a lot of the issues. not my idea originally, i got it from one of Furor's posts, and i think it is a good idea.

this allows for people to flag new recruits, old-timers who are active again, people who simply werent there for whatever reason, without causing them to take a spawn from somebody else for just a couple flags, and redo content.

[Fairweather Pure]

/ooc "WTS HOH Flag, 50k!"

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

I like the idea of having them similar to the way Emp power sources used to be. How often did you see those sold? Just wouldn't happen as guilds don't want other people in the zones they worked to get to.

[Winnow]

Flags are a good idea. Game related problems with them are LD's, coming back and not being in raid at time of kill, poofing flag mobs, etc

I didn't care for the long lines in PoJ trial. If SOE is going to have trials, make the actual fight itself the challenge and have it not be a challenge of waiting in a 4 hour line. Solution: have one of those psychedelic planaterium rooms for each trial. That way 6 groups can be working on the same trial and no one gets hurt.

[Aabidano]

The wait for trials annoys me to death. That and the fact that a group that could easily grind exp in PoS & PoV isn't sufficient to pass the trial.

[Siji]

http://pub146.ezboard.com/fthesafehouse ... 6035.topic

A really good thread on Safehouse in regards to flags.

Vor - the problem with 'banking' flags is that you get people being guilded to get a flag, then deguilding. As pointed above, this could even be sold. (Granted for the most part I don't see that happening since the flags are so valuable). It's too abusable.

[Voronwë]

well i think the fact that nobody trys any trials but Exe is part of the problem.

the method for passing exe is very straightforward, so people only really go for that one. the others may be more difficult, but in the time it takes you to get one shot at exe you can have like 5 at lashing or whatever.

i think they could perhaps tweak one or two of the trials to make it a bit more approachable to the average "exe-capable" group.

[vn_Tanc]

You mean the queue for "The Trial" right?
If people grew some sack and maybe tried some of the others the queuing wouldn't be a problem.

[Winnow]

You mean the queue for "The Trial" right?
If people grew some sack and maybe tried some of the others the queuing wouldn't be a problem.

Actually I did the hanging trial mr scrotum reference. But yes, the executioner trial was bottlenecked. Even some of the higher end guilds had trouble getting peeps to complete the trials initially. Having the trial available to complete when you actually got people together would be nice instead of afk'ing in line for a few hours. It was a bottleneck for the first few weeks that could have been avoided.

[Aabidano]

If people grew some sack and maybe tried some of the others the queuing wouldn't be a problem.

/agree

I'm getting 4-5% aa per kill right now on old content, so getting past the trials isn't a crisis until I start leveling again

[Xouqoa]

It should have just been a guild wide flag. You kill mob, your guild leader hails projection, entire guild is flagged for access to that zone. As long as you retain guild tag, you have access to that zone.

[Voronwë]

i disagree xou, then attendence on raids is not as important. attendance should be rewarded. also there are some times when people leave a guild for legitimate reasons. one shouldnt forfeit their earned flags if they have a falling out with their guild.

sure in theory they can get them back when they join a new guild, but you cant join a new guild without raiding, and if you dont have flags, you are fuckered on that end.

[Truant]

I hate them....Verant took the time sink, and turned it into a cluster fuck, and that is the flag process.

[KilornCloudwalker]

Personally, I can't stand them. IF they made a usable quest based alternative to the big fights to get flags...that actually worked, I wouldn't mind. As it is... I still wait to get through the damned exe trial to get to more fertile, less idiot-filled tier 2 planes...

I agree with the above....people need to work on other trials and they need to have ones that do not require AE crap to get done. Surely some of these are more melee-based..? As it is, some classes get through sooner and faster than others...which to me sucks.. /shrugs

[Aabidano]

...less idiot-filled tier 2 planes

Not likely

[KilornCloudwalker]

...less idiot-filled tier 2 planes

Not likely

Well, was hoping less dr00d/wiz/bard kiters at least...?

[Aslanna]

Good idea bad implemention. Guilds in Tier 3-4 should not be forced to go do Tier 1-2 (along with 3-4) everytime they get a new recruit. They have demonstrated that they are able to make their way further and should no have to redo those encounters, taking them away from others that are actually trying to flag a majority of their members rather than the other guild trying to flag 1-2 people.

Veeshan I think is a little friendlier in this regards than maybe other servers. Most guilds will allow someone from another guild to get a flag from their encounter assuming the person is in a guild that has already defeated that encounter. Meaning, for example, CT has killed Aerin'Dar numerous times. On more than one occassion we've had people from CoE/CD/FoH there to get a flag and we've received similar treatment in return. However we've turned down people from other guilds wanting to come along that haven't defeated Aerin'Dar on their own.

Also, the projections are buggy. We killed Aerin'Dar once and had the projection poof within seconds. I think only one person was able to hail him before he poofed. That's beyond lame. I also hear certain encounters allow only 30 people to get flagged at a time. What is the point of that other than wasting peoples time with Yet-Another-Timesink that EQ is so fond of providing.

[rhyae]

It's a mixed reaction to them. They are interesting, but it's sort of now or never. If you miss out on them you fall behind so far its difficult to recover.
And if you are guildless you are screwed pretty much.

[Siji]

so getting past the trials isn't a crisis

I disagree, and this is where my concern really lies.. if you don't do the flags sooner than later, you'll be left behind. I firmly believe that while there are certainly some people that will be more than willing to help their guildmates or friends through flagging, guilds as a whole are going to want to be able to say "We're done with that."

It's a bit extreme, but I'll use FOH's recruitment message as an example. To get into FOH now you have to be flagged. How many guilds on Veeshan besides FOH can actually get the flags required? Replace FOH with any of the tier 2 guilds on the server and as time goes on, it gets much harder to get into them for new people, and much less attractive to those guilds to recruit people that aren't already tagged.

[Aabidano]

Long term I'd agree your screwed without being flagged. Short term, farming some loot/AAs is easily doable without.

There's more than one guild with a level 65 requirement for my class, getting to that point without at least tier 2 flags would be difficult.

And if you are guildless you are screwed pretty much.

Pretty much