Clinton going off on Fox News

[Sabek]

Here is a youtube video showing Clinton going off on a Fox News reporting questioning him about not taking out Bin Laden.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYm1TH23e9E

[cid]

Here is a youtube video showing Clinton going off on a Fox News reporting questioning him about not taking out Bin Laden.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYm1TH23e9E

This video has been removed at the request of copyright owner Fox News Network, LLC because its content was used without permission

[Funkmasterr]

I'm glad I got to see it before it got pulled.

What a bunch of fucking douchebags.. I hope the media folks understand how they take a big chunk of peoples opinions about them down a notch everytime they do something like have a video clip pulled.

[Boogahz]

I'm glad I got to see it before it got pulled.

What a bunch of fucking douchebags.. I hope the media folks understand how they take a big chunk of peoples opinions about them down a notch everytime they do something like have a video clip pulled.

...maybe because it really IS breaking the law.

[Nick]

Thanks for reminding us officer Boogahz.

On topic again, Clinton made that interviewer look like such an asshole, was good to watch.

[Funkmasterr]

Thanks for reminding us officer Boogahz.

On topic again, Clinton made that interviewer look like such an asshole, was good to watch.

Yeah he did.. I hate it how any of those interviewers are so fucking arrogant.. He bitches because Clinton interrupts him once, makes snide comments and then interrupts him constantly for the next 10 minutes.


Oh and Boo.. What am I supposed to do, buy this interview on some dvd, or actually waste my time watching an entire news show? Give me a break dude. Most news couldn't possibly be more worthless, it's just these few select moments that are worth my time.

[Aslanna]

A transcript isn't as good as seeing a video but here you go. Not the whole interview. If you want that click the link

http://thinkprogress.org/clinton-interview

...

WALLACE: When we announced that you were going to be on Fox News Sunday, I got a lot of e-mail from viewers. And I’ve got to say, I was surprised. Most of them wanted me to ask you this question: Why didn’t you do more to put bin Laden and Al Qaida out of business when you were president?

There’s a new book out, I suspect you’ve already read, called

The Looming Tower. And it talks about how the fact that when you pulled troops out of Somalia in 1993, bin Laden said, I have seen the frailty and the weakness and the cowardice of U.S. troops. Then there was the bombing of the embassies in Africa and the attack on the Cole.

CLINTON: OK, let’s just go through that.

WALLACE: Let me — let me — may I just finish the question, sir?

And after the attack, the book says that bin Laden separated his leaders, spread them around, because he expected an attack, and there was no response.

I understand that hindsight is always 20/20…

CLINTON: No, let’s talk about it.

WALLACE: … but the question is, why didn’t you do more, connect the dots and put them out of business?

CLINTON: OK, let’s talk about it. Now, I will answer all those things on the merits, but first I want to talk about the context in which this arises.

I’m being asked this on the Fox network. ABC just had a right-wing conservative run in their little Pathway to 9/11, falsely claiming it was based on the 9/11 Commission report, with three things asserted against me directly contradicted by the 9/11 Commission report.

And I think it’s very interesting that all the conservative Republicans, who now say I didn’t do enough, claimed that I was too obsessed with bin Laden. All of President Bush’s neo-cons thought I was too obsessed with bin Laden. They had no meetings on bin Laden for nine months after I left office. All the right-wingers who now say I didn’t do enough said I did too much — same people.

They were all trying to get me to withdraw from Somalia in 1993 the next day after we were involved in Black Hawk down, and I refused to do it and stayed six months and had an orderly transfer to the United Nations.

OK, now let’s look at all the criticisms: Black Hawk down, Somalia. There is not a living soul in the world who thought that Osama bin Laden had anything to do with Black Hawk down or was paying any attention to it or even knew Al Qaida was a growing concern in October of ‘93.

WALLACE: I understand, and I…

CLINTON: No, wait. No, wait. Don’t tell me this — you asked me why didn’t I do more to bin Laden. There was not a living soul. All the people who now criticize me wanted to leave the next day.

You brought this up, so you’ll get an answer, but you can’t…

WALLACE: I’m perfectly happy to.

CLINTON: All right, secondly…

WALLACE: Bin Laden says…

CLINTON: Bin Laden may have said…

WALLACE: … bin Laden says that it showed the weakness of the United States.

CLINTON: But it would’ve shown the weakness if we’d left right away, but he wasn’t involved in that. That’s just a bunch of bull. That was about Mohammed Adid, a Muslim warlord, murdering 22 Pakistani Muslim troops. We were all there on a humanitarian mission. We had no mission, none, to establish a certain kind of Somali government or to keep anybody out.

He was not a religious fanatic…

WALLACE: But, Mr. President…

CLINTON: … there was no Al Qaida…

WALLACE: … with respect, if I may, instead of going through ‘93 and…

CLINTON: No, no. You asked it. You brought it up. You brought it up.

WALLACE: May I ask a general question and then you can answer?

CLINTON: Yes.

WALLACE: The 9/11 Commission, which you’ve talk about — and this is what they did say, not what ABC pretended they said…

CLINTON: Yes, what did they say?

WALLACE: … they said about you and President Bush, and I quote, The U.S. government took the threat seriously, but not in the sense of mustering anything like the kind of effort that would be gathered to confront an enemy of the first, second or even third rank.

CLINTON: First of all, that’s not true with us and bin Laden.

WALLACE: Well, I’m telling you that’s what the 9/11 Commission says.

CLINTON: All right. Let’s look at what Richard Clarke said. Do you think Richard Clarke has a vigorous attitude about bin Laden?

WALLACE: Yes, I do.

CLINTON: You do, don’t you?

WALLACE: I think he has a variety of opinions and loyalties, but yes, he has a vigorous…

CLINTON: He has a variety of opinion and loyalties now, but let’s look at the facts: He worked for Ronald Reagan; he was loyal to him. He worked for George H. W. Bush; he was loyal to him. He worked for me, and he was loyal to me. He worked for President Bush; he was loyal to him.

They downgraded him and the terrorist operation.

Now, look what he said, read his book and read his factual assertions — not opinions — assertions. He said we took vigorous action after the African embassies. We probably nearly got bin Laden.

WALLACE: But…

CLINTON: No, wait a minute.

(CROSSTALK)

WALLACE: … cruise missiles.

CLINTON: No, no. I authorized the CIA to get groups together to try to kill him.

The CIA, which was run by George Tenet, that President Bush gave the Medal of Freedom to, he said, He did a good job setting up all these counterterrorism things.

The country never had a comprehensive anti-terror operation until I came there.

Now, if you want to criticize me for one thing, you can criticize me for this: After the Cole, I had battle plans drawn to go into Afghanistan, overthrow the Taliban, and launch a full-scale attack search for bin Laden.

But we needed basing rights in Uzbekistan, which we got after 9/11.

The CIA and the FBI refused to certify that bin Laden was responsible while I was there. They refused to certify. So that meant I would’ve had to send a few hundred Special Forces in in helicopters and refuel at night.

Even the 9/11 Commission didn’t do that. Now, the 9/11 Commission was a political document, too. All I’m asking is, anybody who wants to say I didn’t do enough, you read Richard Clarke’s book.

WALLACE: Do you think you did enough, sir?

CLINTON: No, because I didn’t get him.

WALLACE: Right.

CLINTON: But at least I tried. That’s the difference in me and some, including all the right-wingers who are attacking me now. They ridiculed me for trying. They had eight months to try. They did not try. I tried.

So I tried and failed. When I failed, I left a comprehensive anti-terror strategy and the best guy in the country, Dick Clarke, who got demoted.

So you did Fox’s bidding on this show. You did your nice little conservative hit job on me. What I want to know is…

WALLACE: Well, wait a minute, sir.

CLINTON: No, wait. No, no…

WALLACE: I want to ask a question. You don’t think that’s a legitimate question?

CLINTON: It was a perfectly legitimate question, but I want to know how many people in the Bush administration you asked this question of.

I want to know how many people in the Bush administration you asked, Why didn’t you do anything about the Cole?

I want to know how many you asked, Why did you fire Dick Clarke?

I want to know how many people you asked…

WALLACE: We asked — we asked…

CLINTON: I don’t…

WALLACE: Do you ever watch Fox News Sunday, sir?

CLINTON: I don’t believe you asked them that.

WALLACE: We ask plenty of questions of…

CLINTON: You didn’t ask that, did you? Tell the truth, Chris.

WALLACE: About the USS Cole?

CLINTON: Tell the truth, Chris.

WALLACE: With Iraq and Afghanistan, there’s plenty of stuff to ask.

CLINTON: Did you ever ask that?

You set this meeting up because you were going to get a lot of criticism from your viewers because Rupert Murdoch’s supporting my work on climate change.

And you came here under false pretenses and said that you’d spend half the time talking about — you said you’d spend half the time talking about what we did out there to raise $7-billion-plus in three days from 215 different commitments. And you don’t care.

WALLACE: But, President Clinton, if you look at the questions here, you’ll see half the questions are about that. I didn’t think this was going to set you off on such a tear.

CLINTON: You launched it — it set me off on a tear because you didn’t formulate it in an honest way and because you people ask me questions you don’t ask the other side.

WALLACE: That’s not true. Sir, that is not true.

CLINTON: And Richard Clarke made it clear in his testimony…

WALLACE: Would you like to talk about the Clinton Global Initiative?

CLINTON: No, I want to finish this now.

WALLACE: All right. Well, after you.

CLINTON: All I’m saying is, you falsely accused me of giving aid and comfort to bin Laden because of what happened in Somalia. No one knew Al Qaida existed then. And…

WALLACE: But did they know in 1996 when he declared war on the U.S.? Did they know in 1998…

CLINTON: Absolutely, they did.

WALLACE: … when he bombed the two embassies?

CLINTON: And who talked about…

WALLACE: Did they know in 2000 when he hit the Cole?

CLINTON: What did I do? What did I do? I worked hard to try to kill him. I authorized a finding for the CIA to kill him. We contracted with people to kill him. I got closer to killing him than anybody has gotten since. And if I were still president, we’d have more than 20,000 troops there trying to kill him.

Now, I’ve never criticized President Bush, and I don’t think this is useful. But you know we do have a government that thinks Afghanistan is only one-seventh as important as Iraq.

And you ask me about terror and Al Qaida with that sort of dismissive thing? When all you have to do is read Richard Clarke’s book to look at what we did in a comprehensive, systematic way to try to protect the country against terror.

And you’ve got that little smirk on your face and you think you’re so clever. But I had responsibility for trying to protect this country. I tried and I failed to get bin Laden. I regret it. But I did try. And I did everything I thought I responsibly could.

The entire military was against sending Special Forces in to Afghanistan and refueling by helicopter. And no one thought we could do it otherwise, because we could not get the CIA and the FBI to certify that Al Qaida was responsible while I was president.

And so, I left office. And yet, I get asked about this all the time. They had three times as much time to deal with it, and nobody ever asks them about it. I think that’s strange.

WALLACE: Can I ask you about the Clinton Global Initiative?

CLINTON: You can.

WALLACE: I always intended to, sir.

CLINTON: No, you intended, though, to move your bones by doing this first, which is perfectly fine. But I don’t mind people asking me — I actually talked to the 9/11 Commission for four hours, Chris, and I told them the mistakes I thought I made. And I urged them to make those mistakes public, because I thought none of us had been perfect.

But instead of anybody talking about those things, I always get these clever little political yields (ph), where they ask me one-sided questions. And the other guys notice that. And it always comes from one source. And so…

WALLACE: And…

CLINTON: And so…

WALLACE: I just want to ask you about the Clinton Global Initiative, but what’s the source? I mean, you seem upset, and I…

CLINTON: I am upset because…

WALLACE: And all I can say is, I’m asking you this in good faith because it’s on people’s minds, sir. And I wasn’t…

CLINTON: Well, there’s a reason it’s on people’s minds. That’s the point I’m trying to make. There’s a reason it’s on people’s minds: Because there’s been a serious disinformation campaign to create that impression.

This country only has one person who’s worked on this terror. From the terrorist incidents under Reagan to the terrorist incidents from 9/11, only one: Richard Clarke.

And all I can say to anybody is, you want to know what we did wrong or right, or anybody else did? Read his book.

The people on my political right who say I didn’t do enough spent the whole time I was president saying, Why is he so obsessed with bin Laden? That was wag the dog when he tried to kill him.

My Republican secretary of defense — and I think I’m the only president since World War II to have a secretary of defense of the opposite party — Richard Clarke and all the intelligence people said that I ordered a vigorous attempt to get bin Laden and came closer, apparently, than anybody has since.

WALLACE: All right.

CLINTON: And you guys try to create the opposite impression, when all you have to do is read Richard Clarke’s findings and you know it’s not true. It’s just not true.

And all this business about Somalia — the same people who criticized me about Somalia were demanding I leave the next day. The same exact crowd.

WALLACE: One of the…

CLINTON: And so, if you’re going to do this, for God’s sake, follow the same standards for everybody…

WALLACE: I think we do, sir.

CLINTON: … and be flat — and fair.

WALLACE: I think we do.

...

And here's a good point I agree 100% with. Patriot Act my ass:

CLINTON: ...But on the other hand, this is perfectly predictable: We’re going to win a lot of seats if the American people aren’t afraid. If they’re afraid and we get divided again, then we may only win a few seats.

WALLACE: And the White House, the Republicans want to make the American people afraid?

CLINTON: Of course they do. Of course they do. They want us to be — they want another homeland security deal. And they want to make it about — not about Iraq but about some other security issue, where, if we disagree with them, we are, by definition, imperiling the security of the country.

Oh.. Found the video too..

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/09/24/clinton-video/

[Boogahz]

Thanks for reminding us officer Boogahz.

On topic again, Clinton made that interviewer look like such an asshole, was good to watch.

Yeah he did.. I hate it how any of those interviewers are so fucking arrogant.. He bitches because Clinton interrupts him once, makes snide comments and then interrupts him constantly for the next 10 minutes.


Oh and Boo.. What am I supposed to do, buy this interview on some dvd, or actually waste my time watching an entire news show? Give me a break dude. Most news couldn't possibly be more worthless, it's just these few select moments that are worth my time.

There have even been links to info about it on cnn.com and many other places. Nobody is trying to force you to buy shit.

YouTube's policy regarding the removal of video's "owned" by others applies to everyone, not just Fox. The fact that they actually (appear to) make an effort to police the videos they receive is something that might actually help them in the long run.

[masteen]

Well, at least they know that fearmongering is how the GOP put the American political system in a chokehold. Now they just need an economic counter that appeals viscerally enough to work. Maybe the fact that the price of gas is DOUBLE what it was during Clinton's term?

It's apparent that the people will no longer vote according to what's in their own financial best interest. Peobably due to the fact that most Americans are now too ignorant to understand what that truly means. Gotta come up with good talking points, and "I AM NOT DUBYA" is not one of them.

[Pherr the Dorf]

Bubba's lookin like he is gonna kick his ass... I don't think Fox News really bothered to think about how Clinton would react, the man is smarter then the talking heads combined.

[Winnow]

Now they just need an economic counter that appeals viscerally enough to work. Maybe the fact that the price of gas is DOUBLE what it was during Clinton's term?

Gas prices are falling again. National PGG is closing in on $2.00. You know, gas was around .25/gal in the 50's! It goes up like everything else. Comics that were .10 then are now 2.99. so taking that into account, gas should be $7.50/gal.

The Democrats need to reinvent themselves. Hillary's going to screw it up for them in 2008 so target 1012.

[Sueven]

Gas prices are falling again. National PGG is closing in on $2.00. You know, gas was around .25/gal in the 50's! It goes up like everything else. Comics that were .10 then are now 2.99. so taking that into account, gas should be $7.50/gal.

I'm going to flag this one with my special Winnow-Stop-Being-A-Retard marker. You're just being intentionally ignorant. When I was in high school (as in, no more than 8 years ago) gas in my hometown was eighty nine cents a gallon. Now it's two dollars and thirty one cents, which is the lowest it's been in quite some time. Has inflation caused the price of all commodities to go up by approximately TWO HUNDRED FIFTY percent in 8 years? The answer is no, you know the answer is no, and you knew just how stupid what you wrote was even before you wrote it.

I'm not saying that gas prices are the exclusive fault of one GWB, just that inflation is not responsible for the gap between 8 years ago and now.

[*~*stragi*~*]

Now they just need an economic counter that appeals viscerally enough to work. Maybe the fact that the price of gas is DOUBLE what it was during Clinton's term?

Gas prices are falling again. National PGG is closing in on $2.00. You know, gas was around .25/gal in the 50's! It goes up like everything else. Comics that were .10 then are now 2.99. so taking that into account, gas should be $7.50/gal.

The Democrats need to reinvent themselves. Hillary's going to screw it up for them in 2008 so target 1012.

gas was 99 cents before bush got elected so there goes your theory imo

anywho, came across these hilarious gems while reading about this interview in regards to republican comments per clinton and kosovo. lolfest

President Clinton is once again releasing American military might on a foreign country with an ill-defined objective and no exit strategy. He has yet to tell the Congress how much this operation will cost. And he has not informed our nation's armed forces about how long they will be
away from home. These strikes do not make for a sound foreign policy."

-Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA)

"No goal, no objective, not until we have those things and a compelling case is made, then I say, back out of it, because innocent people are going to die for nothing. That's why I'm against it."

-Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/5/99

"American foreign policy is now one huge big mystery. Simply put, the administration is trying to lead the world with a feel-good foreign policy."

-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

"If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they have a clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy."

-Karen Hughes, speaking on behalf of presidential candidate George W. Bush


"I had doubts about the bombing campaign from the beginning...I didn't think we had done enough in the diplomatic area."

-Senator Trent Lott (R-MS)


"You think Vietnam was bad? Vietnam is nothing next to Kosovo."

-Tony Snow, Fox News 3/24/99


"Well, I just think it's a bad idea. What's going to happen is they're going to be over there for 10, 15, maybe 20 years"

-Joe Scarborough (R-FL)


"I'm on the Senate Intelligence Committee, so you can trust me and believe me when I say we're running out of cruise missles. I can't tell you exactly how many we have left, for security reasons, but we're almost out of cruise missles."

-Senator Inhofe (R-OK )

"I cannot support a failed foreign policy. History teaches us that it is often easier to make war than peace. This administration is just learning that lesson right now. The President began this mission with very vague objectives and lots of unanswered questions. A month later, these questions are still unanswered. There are no clarifiedrules of engagement. There is no timetable. There is no legitimate definition of victory. There is no contingency plan for mission creep. There is no clear funding program. There is no agenda to bolster our overextended military. There is no explanation defining what vital national interests are at stake. There was no strategic plan for war when the President started this thing, and there still is no plan today"

-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

"I don't know that Milosevic will ever raise a white flag"

-Senator Don Nickles (R-OK)

"Explain to the mothers and fathers of American servicemen that may come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?"

-Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/6/99


Why didn't they support our president in a time of war?


"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is."

-Governor George W. Bush (R-TX)


"This is President Clinton's war, and when he falls flat on his face, that's his problem."

-Senator Richard Lugar (R-IN)

"The two powers that have ICBMs that can reach the United States are Russia and China. Here we go in. We're taking on not just Milosevic. We can't just say, 'that little guy, we can whip him.' We have these two other powers that have missiles that can reach us, and we have zero defense thanks to this president."

-Senator James Inhofe (R-OK)


"You can support the troops but not the president"

-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)


"My job as majority leader is be supportive of our troops, try to have input as decisions are made and to look at those decisions after they're made ... not to march in lock step with everything the president decides to do."

-Senator Trent Lott (R-MS)


For us to call this a victory and to commend the President of the United States as the Commander in Chief showing great leadership in Operation Allied Force is a farce"
-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

[Winnow]

gas was 99 cents before bush got elected so there goes your theory imo

So 911 comes along which had been in the works for awhile and Bush is to blame for the higher gas because of it?

Oh, and the world would have been perfect if we didn't get involved in the Middle East and we'd be sitting at $1.00/gallon?

I see! Fuck this shit. Repeal the 22nd Amendment and get Clinton back in office so my stocks will go up 1000% again every week or so!

[Dregor Thule]

Stragi, you must be making those quotes up, no way would god fearing Republicans make unpatriotic statements like that! Oh wai..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q4FD9dd ... ed&search=

[dibit_eq]

Actually winnow, your stocks might improve drastically. Many americans remember the clinton years as a time of great prosperity and safety. The stock economy is driven almost completely off of consumer confidence and many people might have confidence that under the leadership of Clinton, the good times will return. I'd wager the stock market would have a rather noticeable upswing at first and, assuming no new terrorist attacks, would grow instead of the current recessive trend going on.

[Raistin]

You might be trying to make a joke, but I'm willing to bet my left nut he would get elected again.

[Sueven]

So 911 comes along which had been in the works for awhile and Bush is to blame for the higher gas because of it?

Oh, and the world would have been perfect if we didn't get involved in the Middle East and we'd be sitting at $1.00/gallon?

I see! Fuck this shit. Repeal the 22nd Amendment and get Clinton back in office so my stocks will go up 1000% again every week or so!

"9/11 is responsible for the recent raise in gas prices" is a much more plausible theory than "inflation is responsible for the recent raise in gas prices." Of course, your initial post didn't say shit about 9/11, it blamed inflation for the increase. You're being intentionally stupid again.

"You think Vietnam was bad? Vietnam is nothing next to Kosovo."

-Tony Snow, Fox News 3/24/99

hahahahaha

that's awesome

he's ari fleischer now!

[kyoukan]

Actually winnow, your stocks might improve drastically. Many americans remember the clinton years as a time of great prosperity and safety. The stock economy is driven almost completely off of consumer confidence and many people might have confidence that under the leadership of Clinton, the good times will return. I'd wager the stock market would have a rather noticeable upswing at first and, assuming no new terrorist attacks, would grow instead of the current recessive trend going on.

Not quite, hippy. All of the great economic times during the Clinton administration is because of the former Bush administration. Now that the economy is in the shithouse, it is backlash from the Clinton administration. This is all well documented fact, and if you weren't so stupid you could look it up. I'm not going to just hand you this information though.

[Kylere]

I wish Clinton had been half as tough on Terrorism as he was on a TV reporter.

[kyoukan]

More intelligent and unbiased comments from the center of the political spectrum. Thanks Kylere!

[Winnow]

Comic Price vs. Minimum Wage By Year

1960 - Comics 10¢, wage $1.00, get 10/hr.
1961 - Comics 10¢, wage $1.15, get 11/hr.
1965 - Comics 12¢, wage $1.25, get 10 /hr.
1970 - Comics 15¢, wage $1.60, get 10 /hr.
1974 - Comics 20¢, wage $2.00, get 10 /hr.
1976 - Comics 25¢, wage $2.10, get 8 /hr.
1977 - Comics 30¢, wage $2.30, get 7 /hr.
1978 - Comics 35¢, wage $2.65, get 7 /hr.
1980 - Comics 40¢, wage $3.10, get 7 /hr.
____________________

1981 - Comics 50¢, wage $3.35, get 6 /hr.
1982 - Comics 60¢, wage $3.35, get 5 /hr.
1985 - Comics 65¢, wage $3.35, get 5 /hr.
1986 - Comics 75¢, wage $3.35, get 4 /hr.
____________________

1990 - Comics $1.00, wage $3.80, get 3 /hr.
1994 - Comics $1.25, wage $4.25, get 3 /hr.
1996 - Comics $1.50, wage $4.75, get 3 /hr.
1997 - Comics $1.50, wage $5.15, get 3 /hr.
____________________

Summary

1960-1975 = 10 comics/hr worked
1976 = 8 comics/hr worked
1977-1980 = 7 comics/hr worked
1981 = 6 comics/hr worked
1982-1985 = 5 comics/hr worked
1986-1989 = 4 comics/hr worked
1990-1997 = 3 comics/hr worked
1997 - Present - 1-2 comics/hr worked

Knock yourself out:

http://www.seattlegasprices.com/retail_price_chart.aspx

Gas prices too high? Not by historical standards
By Mark J. Perry

If you're like most Americans, you have probably found yourself complaining lately about the high price of gasoline — especially if you just spent a day or two in the car over Memorial Day weekend.

A USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll in May found that 59% of those surveyed said high gas prices had caused a hardship on them.

You might even find yourself longing for the good old days of cheap gas. If so, think again. Gas prices today, by any measure that adjusts for inflation and rising real income, are a bargain.

Gas prices appear to be at a historical high, and prices of the past appear to be cheap (17 cents per gallon in the 1930s, a quarter in the 1950s and 50 cents in the 1970s). But this is a classic example of "money illusion." In real inflation-adjusted dollars, gas prices are the same or lower today than in most previous decades.

Measured in real dollars, gas prices peaked in March 1981 at more than $3 per gallon. We have not even come close to paying the highest real gas price in history — today's prices are still 30% below the all-time high.

championship

[Keverian FireCry]

To see the whole interview and realize how sad it is that we've got the Bush/FoxNews admin instead of someone like Clinton, just follow these very simple steps.



Step 1: Go to Google Video.

Step 2: Search "wallace clinton"

Step 3: Watch part 1 of the interview in it's entirety(~16min)

Step 3.5: Search "wallace clinton pt. 2"

Step 4: Watch part 2(~7mins).


***Steps 5-7 are only for those of you who still support the Bush administration***


Step 5: Support the Gun lobby- Buy a gun.

Step 6: Support your country and mankind- blow your fucking head off.

Step 7: Support the church- Rot in hell.



Thank you for your time.

[Xyun]

Lol, winnow watching you backpedal like that brings a smile to my face. No matter how much statistics you post, it will not change the content of your first post or the ignorance displayed therein.

Jerry Faldwell recently said that he wishes Hillary Clinton would win the 2008 primary because it would energize the conservative base. I think she should run and Bill Clinton should be her running mate for vice president. That would energize the liberal base.


Watching clips of that interview does not do it justice. Here it is in its entirety:

part 1

part 2

Of course, as you would've guessed, Wallace thought it was a perfectly fair and balanced question. lol. Nevermind the propaganda campaign unleashed by the fabricated "path to 9/11". I'm sure that has nothing to do with it being on people's minds.

Hey, let's ignore the substance of what clinton said in that interview and overshadow it with his passion for the truth... which is apparently a negative thing for conservatives.

[dibit_eq]

If Bill Clinton ran as Hillary's vice president... how long before someone assassinated her? I know it's morbid, but I'd almost expect it.

[Hesten]

anywho, came across these hilarious gems while reading about this interview in regards to republican comments per clinton and kosovo. lolfest

President Clinton is once again releasing American military might on a foreign country with an ill-defined objective and no exit strategy. He has yet to tell the Congress how much this operation will cost. And he has not informed our nation's armed forces about how long they will be
away from home. These strikes do not make for a sound foreign policy."
-Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA)

"No goal, no objective, not until we have those things and a compelling case is made, then I say, back out of it, because innocent people are going to die for nothing. That's why I'm against it."
-Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/5/99

"American foreign policy is now one huge big mystery. Simply put, the administration is trying to lead the world with a feel-good foreign policy."
-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

"If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they have a clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy."
-Karen Hughes, speaking on behalf of presidential candidate George W. Bush[/]


"Well, I just think it's a bad idea. What's going to happen is they're going to be over there for 10, 15, maybe 20 years"
-Joe Scarborough (R-FL)


"I'm on the Senate Intelligence Committee, so you can trust me and believe me when I say we're running out of cruise missles. I can't tell you exactly how many we have left, for security reasons, but we're almost out of cruise missles."
-Senator Inhofe (R-OK )

"I cannot support a failed foreign policy. History teaches us that it is often easier to make war than peace. This administration is just learning that lesson right now. The President began this mission with very vague objectives and lots of unanswered questions. A month later, these questions are still unanswered. There are no clarifiedrules of engagement. There is no timetable. There is no legitimate definition of victory. There is no contingency plan for mission creep. There is no clear funding program. There is no agenda to bolster our overextended military. There is no explanation defining what vital national interests are at stake. There was no strategic plan for war when the President started this thing, and there still is no plan today"
-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)


"Explain to the mothers and fathers of American servicemen that may come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?"
-Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/6/99


"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is."
-Governor George W. Bush (R-TX)


"This is President Clinton's war, and when he falls flat on his face, that's his problem."
-Senator Richard Lugar (R-IN)


"You can support the troops but not the president"
-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)


"My job as majority leader is be supportive of our troops, try to have input as decisions are made and to look at those decisions after they're made ... not to march in lock step with everything the president decides to do."
-Senator Trent Lott (R-MS)


For us to call this a victory and to commend the President of the United States as the Commander in Chief showing great leadership in Operation Allied Force is a farce"
-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

Lol, i love these ones, especially while looking at who said them, or how the US act today

[dibit_eq]

Actually winnow, your stocks might improve drastically. Many americans remember the clinton years as a time of great prosperity and safety. The stock economy is driven almost completely off of consumer confidence and many people might have confidence that under the leadership of Clinton, the good times will return. I'd wager the stock market would have a rather noticeable upswing at first and, assuming no new terrorist attacks, would grow instead of the current recessive trend going on.

Not quite, hippy. All of the great economic times during the Clinton administration is because of the former Bush administration. Now that the economy is in the shithouse, it is backlash from the Clinton administration. This is all well documented fact, and if you weren't so stupid you could look it up. I'm not going to just hand you this information though.

I dont think I was saying that Clinton waved some magic wand and money appeared. I said that there was a more stable economy during the clinton administration. You're denying this? People are fickle and would be more willing to invest money under the idea that things are better again that a figurehead like Clinton is back in office. I'm not saying that it would solve all economic problems, but there would be a brief upswing just because of renewed confidence. Whether the confidence was justified or not, that's another issue. Of course you make as many claims as i have so we're equally talking out of our asses. Good times.

[Sueven]

I think she should run and Bill Clinton should be her running mate for vice president. That would energize the liberal base.

Sadly, I think that's constitutionally prohibited. One of the restrictions on who can run for vice president is that they must be eligible to run for president, which Bill, with two notches on his belt, is not.

And Winnow, Xyun's right here... If inflation is responsible for gas prices, then why was the all time high in 1981, as opposed to now? Why did prices fall so drastically after 1981? Answer: Political reasons. Incorrect answer: Inflation. Inflation does not cause the price of goods to drop like that, nor does it cause the price of goods to nearly triple in less than a decade. I'm not an economist, but damn, I don't need to be.

[Aabidano]

The Democrats need to reinvent themselves. Hillary's going to screw it up for them in 2008

The Dems running Hillary in 2008 is the best thing they could do to ensure the Republican party wins the next election.

The Dem party leadership has shown time and again they don't have the slightest clue. They've been handed huge buckets of especially stinky shit to sling, yet seem content to bury their heads in it instead.

The sad part is, I'd still vote Bush over Kerry. Though in hindsight Gore probably would have been a better choice.

[Boogahz]

Gas prices are falling again. National PGG is closing in on $2.00. You know, gas was around .25/gal in the 50's! It goes up like everything else. Comics that were .10 then are now 2.99. so taking that into account, gas should be $7.50/gal.

I'm going to flag this one with my special Winnow-Stop-Being-A-Retard marker. You're just being intentionally ignorant. When I was in high school (as in, no more than 8 years ago) gas in my hometown was eighty nine cents a gallon. Now it's two dollars and thirty one cents, which is the lowest it's been in quite some time. Has inflation caused the price of all commodities to go up by approximately TWO HUNDRED FIFTY percent in 8 years? The answer is no, you know the answer is no, and you knew just how stupid what you wrote was even before you wrote it.

I'm not saying that gas prices are the exclusive fault of one GWB, just that inflation is not responsible for the gap between 8 years ago and now.

Gas around here hasn't been 99 cents since my Junior year in High School. I was filling my family's three cars with fuel the day it went over the 99 cent mark. 2/3 of the cars got gas at $0.99. The last one was at $1.19. This was back when Operation Desert Shield started. Since then, I think the lowest I have seen was $1.09 - $1.29.

[Leonaerd]

Gas prices are falling again. National PGG is closing in on $2.00. You know, gas was around .25/gal in the 50's! It goes up like everything else. Comics that were .10 then are now 2.99. so taking that into account, gas should be $7.50/gal.

I'm going to flag this one with my special Winnow-Stop-Being-A-Retard marker. You're just being intentionally ignorant. When I was in high school (as in, no more than 8 years ago) gas in my hometown was eighty nine cents a gallon. Now it's two dollars and thirty one cents, which is the lowest it's been in quite some time. Has inflation caused the price of all commodities to go up by approximately TWO HUNDRED FIFTY percent in 8 years? The answer is no, you know the answer is no, and you knew just how stupid what you wrote was even before you wrote it.

I'm not saying that gas prices are the exclusive fault of one GWB, just that inflation is not responsible for the gap between 8 years ago and now.

Gas around here hasn't been 99 cents since my Junior year in High School. I was filling my family's three cars with fuel the day it went over the 99 cent mark. 2/3 of the cars got gas at $0.99. The last one was at $1.19. This was back when Operation Desert Shield started. Since then, I think the lowest I have seen was $1.09 - $1.29.

Prices must be much lower in Michigan. I remember when I was 15 and taking Driver's Education, the first tank of gas I filled was $.95 a gallon. That's only four years ago.

[Marbus]

No one IMHO could be worse than Bush.

Kyou, I sure hope you were joking with your Sean Hannity comment about the economy during the Clinton year too, what kind of bullshit is that? So by that model the 80s were really Carter? That's an old Republican trick they use whenever it suits them. Kind of like Chaney saying that a current President's military is the result of the previous President, that is why Bush Sr. had a great Military! Reagan! Of course he doesn't say that anymore...

Clinton did a great job as President, hell Bush Sr. did a better job than Dubya... in fact, hell I can't think of anyone who has done a worse job, even Ford, lol!

This nation is on the brink of so many serious issues that could destroy our country from within that it sometimes scares the shit out of me... and the fundies just keep pouring it on... like Jerry Falwell's statement. WTF is that? As a Christian myself it pains me to say that if we got rid of most of the televangelist this nation would be a lot better off... but since it's 100% true though, I will.

Marb

[Kaldaur]

That post by Kyo was sarcastic, I'd bet money on.

[kyoukan]

The Dem party leadership has shown time and again they don't have the slightest clue. They've been handed huge buckets of especially stinky shit to sling, yet seem content to bury their heads in it instead.

No, they just refuse to sling it.

Real politics is about issues and results, not lying and shit slinging. It is nice to see that one party doesn't resort constantly to dirty politics even when they know it would benefit them to. It is too bad most americans fall for the same old crap over and over, but nobody ever accused your voters of being informed intellectuals.

[Sylvus]

I'm not saying that gas prices are the exclusive fault of one GWB, just that inflation is not responsible for the gap between 8 years ago and now.

Actually, my brother and I were having a conversation about an article that he read recently. He said that the article reported that the recent jumps and dives of the price of gas is a result of a number of huge pension funds buying tons of oil futures, which the oil cartels then have to have enough oil on hand to fill. More and more futures are bought; more oil is just being held onto, meaning the demand was outpacing supply and the prices went up. Coupled with demand from newer markets, hurricanes and natural disasters last year interrupting production, unrest in the middle east and other oil-producing areas, and fears of 2006 seeing similar or worse problems, we all started paying $3/gallon or more.

Futures came up and the pensions sold "their oil", not all of the fears for what would happen this year were realized and now the oil companies are sitting on a lot of oil that has already been pumped, and the prices are falling dramatically. I think he told me that the article he read thought we could see gas prices in the low $1 (with oil possibly falling to the $20s per barrel)area before the cycle repeats itself.

So yeah, it's not the fault of inflation, but it's probably not the fault of the current administration either, as much as I would like to believe that it is. Well, not the administrations fault directly, though their missteps have certainly contributed.

I don't know exactly what article he read, but here are a couple I found via google that corroborate his story.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=5705263
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/b ... ers14.html
http://www.gata.org/node/4404

[*~*stragi*~*]

gas was 99 cents before bush got elected so there goes your theory imo

So 911 comes along which had been in the works for awhile and Bush is to blame for the higher gas because of it?

Oh, and the world would have been perfect if we didn't get involved in the Middle East and we'd be sitting at $1.00/gallon?

I see! Fuck this shit. Repeal the 22nd Amendment and get Clinton back in office so my stocks will go up 1000% again every week or so!

fuck yo stocks dog they dont save me money!

[*~*stragi*~*]

Knock yourself out:

http://www.seattlegasprices.com/retail_price_chart.aspx

Gas prices too high? Not by historical standards
By Mark J. Perry

If you're like most Americans, you have probably found yourself complaining lately about the high price of gasoline — especially if you just spent a day or two in the car over Memorial Day weekend.

A USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll in May found that 59% of those surveyed said high gas prices had caused a hardship on them.

You might even find yourself longing for the good old days of cheap gas. If so, think again. Gas prices today, by any measure that adjusts for inflation and rising real income, are a bargain.

Gas prices appear to be at a historical high, and prices of the past appear to be cheap (17 cents per gallon in the 1930s, a quarter in the 1950s and 50 cents in the 1970s). But this is a classic example of "money illusion." In real inflation-adjusted dollars, gas prices are the same or lower today than in most previous decades.

Measured in real dollars, gas prices peaked in March 1981 at more than $3 per gallon. We have not even come close to paying the highest real gas price in history — today's prices are still 30% below the all-time high.

championship

dems some graphs alrite!

[*~*stragi*~*]

Actually winnow, your stocks might improve drastically. Many americans remember the clinton years as a time of great prosperity and safety. The stock economy is driven almost completely off of consumer confidence and many people might have confidence that under the leadership of Clinton, the good times will return. I'd wager the stock market would have a rather noticeable upswing at first and, assuming no new terrorist attacks, would grow instead of the current recessive trend going on.

Not quite, hippy. All of the great economic times during the Clinton administration is because of the former Bush administration. Now that the economy is in the shithouse, it is backlash from the Clinton administration. This is all well documented fact, and if you weren't so stupid you could look it up. I'm not going to just hand you this information though.

I dont think I was saying that Clinton waved some magic wand and money appeared. I said that there was a more stable economy during the clinton administration. You're denying this? People are fickle and would be more willing to invest money under the idea that things are better again that a figurehead like Clinton is back in office. I'm not saying that it would solve all economic problems, but there would be a brief upswing just because of renewed confidence. Whether the confidence was justified or not, that's another issue. Of course you make as many claims as i have so we're equally talking out of our asses. Good times.

(she was being sarcastic)

anyway do you guys think the democrats will acutally put hillary up for 2008? it seems like a joke to me for some reason, i can't put my finger on it. i haven't even heard mention of her being the first female president which is odd... why wouldn't they put someone good up like obama?

then again with all the awesome xian nutjob faggots like midnyte and metanis there is no way we'd have a female or a black president so who knows.

[Aslanna]

Knock yourself out:

http://www.seattlegasprices.com/retail_price_chart.aspx

Gas prices too high? Not by historical standards
By Mark J. Perry

If you're like most Americans, you have probably found yourself complaining lately about the high price of gasoline — especially if you just spent a day or two in the car over Memorial Day weekend.

A USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll in May found that 59% of those surveyed said high gas prices had caused a hardship on them.

You might even find yourself longing for the good old days of cheap gas. If so, think again. Gas prices today, by any measure that adjusts for inflation and rising real income, are a bargain.

Gas prices appear to be at a historical high, and prices of the past appear to be cheap (17 cents per gallon in the 1930s, a quarter in the 1950s and 50 cents in the 1970s). But this is a classic example of "money illusion." In real inflation-adjusted dollars, gas prices are the same or lower today than in most previous decades.

Measured in real dollars, gas prices peaked in March 1981 at more than $3 per gallon. We have not even come close to paying the highest real gas price in history — today's prices are still 30% below the all-time high.

championship

dems some graphs alrite!

Yeah but were you alive during the Iraq-Iran war when it went over $2.50 a gallon??

[Sueven]

So yeah, it's not the fault of inflation, but it's probably not the fault of the current administration either, as much as I would like to believe that it is. Well, not the administrations fault directly, though their missteps have certainly contributed.

Hey Winnow, check it out, it's an actual contribution!

anyway do you guys think the democrats will acutally put hillary up for 2008?

It's hard to say. The Democratic Party doesn't really have control over whether she gets the nomination or not, since it's a primary election and all. They can attempt to influence the election in her favor, and that'd be important, but it won't be entirely determinative of the primary outcome. Since the Democratic party has a much less centralized party structure than the Republicans, I think they'd be less effective at anointing a 'chosen' candidate and ensuring the results favor that candidate. No one had the first clue who was going to come out of the 2004 Democratic primary.

It looks almost certain that she will run, and she currently has to be thought of as the front-runner, but that's really just because she has a name with some cachet. The real challenge will be to maintain that momentum once primary season starts in earnest and other challengers get a chance to make their name and take hers down a few notches. You have to think she has a decent chance, as registered Democrats are much less revolted by her than the public at large, but personally I'd expect the avalanche of negative media to bury her. Which is good. Because I agree with Aab's assessments of her chances for success in the general election.

Consider, though-- the Democrats two biggest possibilities right now are Hilary Clinton or Barack Obama, the potential first woman president and the potential first black president. I kind of feel like a Republican has a much greater chance of being the first minority president than a Democrat. While there's racists/sexists in both parties, I'm going to posit that there are a lot more racists/sexists in the Republican party than the Democrat. A Democratic black/female candidate would, to a racist/sexist Republican voter, have the twin disadvantages of being both black/female and a Democrat. Racist Democrats might also vote for the Republican. A Republican black/female candidate, however, has one disadvantage (being black/female) balanced against their opponents one disadvantage (being a Democrat). Meanwhile, there's definitely some progressive types who would be more likely to vote for a black/female Republican than a white male Democrat. I feel like a black/female Democrat would draw the majority of Democratic votes and virtually none beside (keep in mind that there's a lot more Republicans than Democrats in the country), while a black/female Republican would draw the majority of Republican votes and a fair portion of others who are heavily influenced by the racial/gender dimension of the election.

[Kaldaur]

Sueven is probably right, which makes me very sad. I have heard Barack Obama speak in public three times, and each time, you can see everyone in the room get a big shit-faced grin on their face. The man just captivates an audience, has a voice to command respect, and doesn't seem to be totally run by interests. When a lady asked him at a town hall meeting recently, "What happened with my situation regarding the taxes, and what do I do?" He first said, "You got screwed over. Now let's fix it." Gave her a number to call where she could speak to his staff and fix the problem. When I wrote him a letter before, I received a personal copy written by him in the first person. Call me crazy, but I actually think he took the time to write out a reply. He just strikes me as the type of man I would want to have in the Oval Office, more so than anyone who has served in the recent past. It was like being in the presence of someone who you know to be greater than yourself.
So yeah, Barack Obama for President...sometime. Maybe not 2008, but at least sometime in the future.

[Winnow]

This isn't over yet. I've got charts made up of other charts.

going back to my original post that seemed to spark the debate:

Gas prices are falling again. National PGG is closing in on $2.00. You know, gas was around .25/gal in the 50's! It goes up like everything else. Comics that were .10 then are now 2.99. so taking that into account, gas should be $7.50/gal.

I didn't mention inflation at all but that seems to be the focus of the repliess.

Your first thought may have been inflation but cost of raw materials may play a part...also distribution methods. Comics are pretty much direct sales only these days which means very few issues are wasted as pre-orders allow for more exact printing compared to the old method of flooding 7/11's, grocery stores, etc with copies that could typically sell less than half of the total printed copies. You would think that would allow the comic publishes to sell them for less due to not having to waste money printing issues that weren't going to sell. On the other hand, you have much higher quality paper, ink, etc that comics are printed on today which costs more. Most of the time, there are less ads in comics or none at all compared to the earlier days. Less ad revenue translates to higher prices for the consumer. Higher salaries for writers, pencillers, inkers, colorist translates into higher prices for the comic consumer, but the end result is hopefully a better looking, better written comic.

With the price of gas, you must take this into account:



Back in 1981, the typical charts and graphs didn't look half this fancy. Where would we be without fancy charts? Look at how cool and colorful that chart is! It has to ease the pain at the pumps at least a little to see why we pay what we pay in such a colorful way. The government gets a nice healthy chunk out of what we pay at the pumps. The other three factors, refining, distribution & monitoring, and the price of crude, can be manipulated.

[Sueven]

Everyone focused on inflation after your original post because you posted nothing other than 'of course the price of gas went up, the price of EVERYTHING goes up!' Implying that any raise in gas prices is attributable to same bland market forces that across-the-board increases in commodity prices are attributable to. That's all. If you want to say something serious, say it. You can make perfectly coherent posts now discussing factors which cause gas price fluctuations, but that doesn't change the fact that your original post-- the one which people actually replied to-- made none of those assertions.

[*~*stragi*~*]

Knock yourself out:

http://www.seattlegasprices.com/retail_price_chart.aspx

Gas prices too high? Not by historical standards
By Mark J. Perry

If you're like most Americans, you have probably found yourself complaining lately about the high price of gasoline — especially if you just spent a day or two in the car over Memorial Day weekend.

A USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll in May found that 59% of those surveyed said high gas prices had caused a hardship on them.

You might even find yourself longing for the good old days of cheap gas. If so, think again. Gas prices today, by any measure that adjusts for inflation and rising real income, are a bargain.

Gas prices appear to be at a historical high, and prices of the past appear to be cheap (17 cents per gallon in the 1930s, a quarter in the 1950s and 50 cents in the 1970s). But this is a classic example of "money illusion." In real inflation-adjusted dollars, gas prices are the same or lower today than in most previous decades.

Measured in real dollars, gas prices peaked in March 1981 at more than $3 per gallon. We have not even come close to paying the highest real gas price in history — today's prices are still 30% below the all-time high.

championship

dems some graphs alrite!

Yeah but were you alive during the Iraq-Iran war when it went over $2.50 a gallon??

hey i post without reading the thread ok!!!

[Fairweather Pure]

God, Clinton was the man. We'll not have another President that intelligent, empathatic, or charasmatic in my lifetime.

He really needed to pull those socks up a bit though.

[cid]

Olbermanns thought about it.

http://my.break.com/media/view.aspx?ContentID=158613

[kyoukan]

o snap. olbermann is still pissed off. that guy is awesome.

his comment about chris wallace in that video is fucking classic.

[Fairweather Pure]

o snap. olbermann is still pissed off. that guy is awesome.

his comment about chris wallace in that video is fucking classic.

I agree. Hell, throw a couple of "fucks" in there and Olbermann could've been posting on VV!

[Al]

o snap. olbermann is still pissed off. that guy is awesome.

his comment about chris wallace in that video is fucking classic.

I concur. While I was no big fan of Clinton, I can't stand the way our current administration does everything it can possibly do to do absolutely nothing productive. I am happy that it is soon over, and I hope that someone worthy of the office will run so we as a nation can quit being the asses everyone thinks we are.

[Sionistic]

Sweet, first we had a journalist completely ass fucked on his own show, then we got another journalist calling it out