And the US government just got more rights to spy on people

Ashur · Post by **Ashur** » September 15, 2006, 3:01 pm

Al wrote:Not to derail this, but Asheran, were you ever in the Air Force?

Thank you Al, I need a good laugh today.

Morgrym · Post by **Morgrym** » September 15, 2006, 5:02 pm

Kylere wrote:
Morgrym wrote:If you have something to hide, then I guess this bothers you. I honestly don't care what they dig into if it prevents acts of terror etc.
These are the words of a coward.

They caught bad guys WITHOUT violating the law BEFORE 9/11, why is it different now?

*points and laughs*

Coward? Obviously you know nothing about me. Go defend your country and then you might have a chance to point fingers in my general direction.

I work for DHS and I point fingers and laugh in your general direction over your obvious narrow minded stupidity.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » September 15, 2006, 8:50 pm

DHS? The biggest pork barrel waste of taxpayer money in the history of the planet? No wonder you're acting so paranoid and so fantatically anti-personal freedom. Your retirement fund is on the line!

Morgrym · Post by **Morgrym** » September 16, 2006, 12:38 am

Actually, it's the USCG. Just falls under DHS. Thanks for playing though.

Morgrym · Post by **Morgrym** » September 16, 2006, 12:40 am

And, how have I acted paranoid? Last I checked, I was all for the Gov't tapping whatever lines they felt was in need. Canadian air must be lacking O2 if you think I am being paranoid.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » September 16, 2006, 3:29 am

Thanks for playing? You're supposed to say that when you're correcting someone on something they should already know.

You: I work for DHS.

Me: You work for DHS?

You: Actually I'm a clerk at EB Games. Thanks for playing, though; YOU FUCKING MORON!

Anyone willing to give up their constitutional freedoms in order to protect themselves from hordes of imaginary terrorists, is paranoid. Or Stupid. Or both. Your forefathers fought for the ideals your country was founded on and you people are willing to piss them all away in less than half a decade because the guy on CNN says that you'll never be safe again.

Al · Post by Al » September 16, 2006, 3:32 am

Me: You're a clerk at EB games?

You: Yuppers!!

Me: I want my money back, this game doesn't work.

You: No refunds! Thanks for playing!

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » September 16, 2006, 7:29 am

Morgrym wrote:
Kylere wrote:
Morgrym wrote:If you have something to hide, then I guess this bothers you. I honestly don't care what they dig into if it prevents acts of terror etc.
These are the words of a coward.

They caught bad guys WITHOUT violating the law BEFORE 9/11, why is it different now?
*points and laughs*

Coward? Obviously you know nothing about me. Go defend your country and then you might have a chance to point fingers in my general direction.

I work for DHS and I point fingers and laugh in your general direction over your obvious narrow minded stupidity.

Yes, you are a fucking coward. I fought for my country in Desert Shield/Storm, I was deployed to Rwanda as part of the humantarian mission there and I supported Mountain Shield both in and out of country. I was airborne not chairborne and you comparing some lame ass civil service job insults every member of the US military both past and present.

You are a pink panty wearing coward, no that is an insult to the courageous women of the world, you are a diaper wearing coward.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » September 16, 2006, 3:09 pm

Kylere wrote:I fought for my country in Desert Shield/Storm,

lol

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » September 16, 2006, 4:42 pm

kyoukan wrote:
Kylere wrote:I fought for my country in Desert Shield/Storm,
lol

0

Kylere and I dont see eye to eye on a lot of things but Im quite sure he has contributed more to humanity than you have. Its time to put up here what have you done to contribute to your existance? Anything? And just to let you know spreading your legs for a multi national force up there in the frozen wasteland does not count as humanitarian aid!!!! To be quite frank the CDC is looking for you.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » September 16, 2006, 5:00 pm

Oh yes those benevolent US military men coming into preserve their oil supplies in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia after watching a 10 year war between Iraq and Iran really furthered the goals of all humanity with that one.

You'd need to be thick as pigshit to join the military unless there was some real actual world war where you had no choice in the matter.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » September 16, 2006, 5:10 pm

I can't even belive I'm wasting 2 minutes to reply to you because you're too stupid to understand, but it is a slow day, so whatever.

a) If Kylere was in Desert Storm, then I led the last charge of the light brigade. The last time I checked, not even the US army is recruiting obese fucking loud mouths with an inflated sense of self worth. Skinny loud mouths that want to shoot arabs, sure. That is the bulk of your fighting force.

b) Standing around in the desert and watching CNN while the air force and navy pilots bomb the living christ out of everything isn't exactly heroic military service. I understand that people like yourself and kylere are so fucking worthless that you liken any act above and beyond getting up off your ass and ordering pizza to be a significant "contribution to humanity" but it is really not.

I don't even know what you mean by 'contributing to my existance.' Every time I draw breath I do that. If you are trying to measure my worthiness as a human being compared to his, well christ. What scoring system would you like me to use? How many points does pretending to be in the armed forces give you? Everything I do contributes positively to society. Everything someone like you or he does takes away from it.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » September 16, 2006, 5:40 pm

Ridiculing military service...wow, that's so Vietnamish of you.

You're one step away from breaking out the baby killer chants.

I hope you spit in the face of your Canadian servicemen when they return from the war after killing a zillion brownies from half a mile away.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · September 16, 2006, 5:56 pm

Winnow wrote:Ridiculing military service...wow, that's so Vietnamish of you.

You're one step away from breaking out the baby killer chants.

I hope you spit in the face of your Canadian servicemen when they return from the war after killing a zillion brownies from half a mile away.

It's just a typical hate-filled response by Kyo. Not really all that surprsing, is it?

Morgrym · Post by **Morgrym** » September 16, 2006, 6:07 pm

Kylere wrote:
Morgrym wrote:
Kylere wrote:
Morgrym wrote:If you have something to hide, then I guess this bothers you. I honestly don't care what they dig into if it prevents acts of terror etc.
These are the words of a coward.

They caught bad guys WITHOUT violating the law BEFORE 9/11, why is it different now?
*points and laughs*

Coward? Obviously you know nothing about me. Go defend your country and then you might have a chance to point fingers in my general direction.

I work for DHS and I point fingers and laugh in your general direction over your obvious narrow minded stupidity.

Yes, you are a fucking coward. I fought for my country in Desert Shield/Storm, I was deployed to Rwanda as part of the humantarian mission there and I supported Mountain Shield both in and out of country. I was airborne not chairborne and you comparing some lame ass civil service job insults every member of the US military both past and present.

You are a pink panty wearing coward, no that is an insult to the courageous women of the world, you are a diaper wearing coward.

My, someone is pissed they chose the wrong service. So sorry you did not place higher on the ASVAB to qual for service in the CG. Next time I am part of a rescue operation, stop drugs from entering the US, stop illegal immigration, clean up morons too stupid to evacuate, and participate in couter terrorism; I will remember how much of a coward I am.

And by "Airborne", I take it to mean you had training, did one repel into the sand box and sat there waiting for your mighty four years of service to leach the GI bill ended.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » September 16, 2006, 6:28 pm

Winnow wrote:Ridiculing military service...wow, that's so Vietnamish of you.

You're one step away from breaking out the baby killer chants.

I hope you spit in the face of your Canadian servicemen when they return from the war after killing a zillion brownies from half a mile away.

Why would I do that? Canadian soldiers are heroes and peacekeepers, and models of what how a modern armed force that claims to be from a civilized nation should behave. Not murderous thugs rampaging illegally around innocent countries, serving as willing tools for corporate funded politicians. What world do you live in where you can even make such a ridiculous comparison?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » September 16, 2006, 7:30 pm

kyoukan wrote:
Winnow wrote:Ridiculing military service...wow, that's so Vietnamish of you.

You're one step away from breaking out the baby killer chants.

I hope you spit in the face of your Canadian servicemen when they return from the war after killing a zillion brownies from half a mile away.
Why would I do that? Canadian soldiers are heroes and peacekeepers, and models of what how a modern armed force that claims to be from a civilized nation should behave. Not murderous thugs rampaging illegally around innocent countries, serving as willing tools for corporate funded politicians. What world do you live in where you can even make such a ridiculous comparison?

I guess as long as you're sniping brownies from a distance it's ok. Canadians very well may have killed more Afghans than Americans have killed Canadians in "friendly" fire.

I guess we'll gloss over the killing part of Canada's armed forces and just look at the ones in the funny blue helmets.

Canadians bury heads in the sand
Analysis: In the United States, There's a new normal, a daily balance of fear and vigilance. but Canadians cling to the old normal. do we need our own 9/11?
Mike Blanchfield
Times Colonist

Sunday, September 10, 2006

CREDIT: Dennis Cook, Associated Press
Prime Minister Stephen Harper, left, keeps ties close with U.S. President George W. Bush at the White House in July. But Canadians and Americans are poles apart in their approach to the war on terror.

"Canada has soldiers that are buried all over Europe because we fought in defence of liberty. And we're not about to back away from a challenge now because we think somebody might get hurt."

-- John Manley,

Canadian foreign affairs minister, September 2001

After he waded through what was the twisted horror of New York's freshly fallen World Trade Center, a red-eyed, slack-jawed Jean Chretien declared: "This attack is unbelievable."

Five years later, the stricken sense of disbelief and horror the Canadian prime minister displayed that day has long since faded, as it has across Canada.

Our American neighbours live the New Normal, that tense daily balance of fear and vigilance.

Canadians cling to the Old Normal, pulling it over our heads like a favourite blanket on a cold night.

Canada has not had its 9/11. Nor has it suffered mass transit attacks such as the one in London that killed 52 people last summer, and in Madrid in March 2004 that left 191 dead, or the nightclub bombing on Kuta Beach in Bali, Indonesia, in October 2002 that killed 202.

"In the United States, today is Sept. 12. In Canada, today is Sept. 10," Canada's former foreign minister John Manley says five years after the 9/11 attacks.

As we continue to go about our lives, we dismiss as so many Cassandra cries the warnings of how we are not immune from carnage on our soil even though they come from the government officials whose job it is to protect us. We forget Osama bin Laden himself has threatened Canada by name.

"The most remarkable change is that Canadians seem to have forgotten 9/11 actually happened," says Liberal Senator Colin Kenny, the chairman of the upper house's influential national security and defence committee.

Whether we like it, whether we accept the connection, young Canadians are being killed and maimed on foreign soil because of those planes that crashed into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon five years ago.

Back then, Manley predicted Canadians would die defending freedom as their forefathers had in Europe, but no one thought Canadians would still be on the front lines of the battle against the Taliban five years after the Twin Towers collapsed.

"I think we all have to be disappointed that five years later we haven't really solved the problem of Afghanistan."

The outpouring of goodwill in Canada was spontaneous and overwhelming in the days following the attacks as tens of thousands of people filled Parliament Hill's lawn and families in Atlantic Canada fed and housed more than 25,000 stranded air travellers who were on the 200 planes diverted to Canada's East Coast the morning of Sept. 11, 2001.

A total of $7.7 billion went to a new security policy -- emergency planning and response, training and border security. Today, that spending tops $10 billion, but some say much more needs to be done.

Initially, Canada also committed 2,000 troops, six warships, six planes and its elite special forces to Afghanistan.

By early 2002, troops were in Kandahar, where they would spend six months. Our snipers killed a couple of dozen enemy fighters and were lauded by their American allies, but the government kept that secret because they didn't want Canadians to understand our troops can do their primary job -- kill efficiently.

Then, on April 17, 2002, four soldiers died in the tragic friendly fire debacle by a misguided American F-16 fighter pilot.

"I think something changed when the four Princess Pats were killed in the friendly fire in 2002," says author and historian Jack Granatstein. "I thought it was less that they were killed in Afghanistan, but more that they were killed by the Americans. The American, anti-Bush image of the United States, a slap-happy pilot shooting our boys that started the trend of everybody being returned being front-page notice."

After six months on the ground, Canada pulled out of Afghanistan because the Forces were too stretched and under funded.

Canadians kept their collective heads down as the Iraq war came; we gritted our teeth at a neighbour we grew to view as a misguided warmonger.

As Baghdad burned and the battered, and reviving Taliban emerged from the caves and mountains of the borderless Afghanistan-Pakistan frontier, our daily lives carried on under the Old Normal.

Five years after 9/11, that means when you board an aircraft, you will likely still be able to carry your laptop with you and will not have to remove your shoes at a security checkpoint.

And why not? Why should Canadians alter our daily routines?

"That's the ostrich family argument. Pursue that argument. When they have their heads in the sand, you know what they have sticking up highest in the air? Well, that is going to get kicked really hard when something bad happens," says Kenny.

Kenny's Senate committee has heard testimony from every possible public official whose job it is to protect Canadians -- the heads of the RCMP and CSIS, elected cabinet ministers and fretful bureaucrats. Five years after 9/11, they report: Most of the shipping containers entering Canadian ports are still not inspected; background checks are not conducted on port workers; lax security and supervision of staff working in secure areas of airports, including baggage handlers and airplane caterers.

They've warned al-Qaeda might try to poison Canada's food or water supply with a bacteria or toxin.

This past summer, police foiled a plot to blow up buildings in southern Ontario by a group that was said to be homegrown terrorists with strong links to Pakistan.

The success of those 17 arrests -- if the plot is ever proven in court -- offers cold comfort to the Canadian security establishment.

One reason: because of understaffing CSIS can only do background checks on one of every five suspicious persons currently entering Canada from the troublesome Pakistan-Afghanistan region.

Kenny says Canadians are falsely reassured by what they see in public, like when the pass through an airport.

"They take off their shoes, open their bags, and take out their computers and give up their sharp objects. So they have the impression somebody must be doing something. They're thinking: 'I guess somebody is looking after what is going into the hold of the aircraft very carefully."'

Whether we like it, that is not the case in Canada, five years on.

Many Canadians simply don't believe in one simple connection that would justify the cause being fought for today in Afghanistan -- that bad things in other parts of the world can make their way to our soil, and bring pain and suffering to our own backyards.

Five years after 9/11, we are a country with a chilling question hanging over our collective heads: would we be better off as a nation if we were shown the proof -- a collapsed national symbol, a dirty bomb exploding at rush hour, the smouldering remains of a bustling market -- or are we better off never knowing at all?

Mike Blanchfield, the Parliament Hill-based foreign affairs correspondent for CanWest News, covered the 9/11 attack and its aftermath from Afghanistan, throughout Central Asia, the Middle East, New York City, Washington and London.

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » September 16, 2006, 8:15 pm

Lol I do not sweat what Kooky thinks, Kooky is just trailer trash of the north.

VariaVespasa · Post by **VariaVespasa** » September 16, 2006, 11:46 pm

[quote="Winnow

Canadians bury heads in the sand
Analysis: In the United States, There's a new normal, a daily balance of fear and vigilance. but Canadians cling to the old normal. do we need our own 9/11?
Mike Blanchfield
Times Colonist

etc

What a stupid article- We're not living in media-hyped fear 24/7 so we're foolish, stupid or unrealistic or something? Perhaps we just have a sense of proportion? 9/11 killed 3000 people or so, and has not been repeated in 5 years. The population of the US murders over FIVE TIMES AS MANY (15,980 in 2001) of its own people EVERY SINGLE YEAR themselves, and loses more than another 42,000 (14 times as many) every year in traffic accidents. 9/11, while a tragedy for those directly touched by it, was a piddly drop in the bucket to the life of the nation. To allow it to poison the entire life of the nation, to create a new normal of fear and paranoia, is idiocy of the highest level, even if you accept the (unlikely, in my mind) position that your freedoms arent being eroded, at least to some extent, by the government in the process. To suggest that this unreasoning, hysterical response is something worthy of emulating is ludicrous, and I have nothing but contempt for it.

*Hugs*
Varia

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » September 17, 2006, 12:01 am

kyoukan wrote:
Winnow wrote:Ridiculing military service...wow, that's so Vietnamish of you.

You're one step away from breaking out the baby killer chants.

I hope you spit in the face of your Canadian servicemen when they return from the war after killing a zillion brownies from half a mile away.
Why would I do that? Canadian soldiers are heroes and peacekeepers, and models of what how a modern armed force that claims to be from a civilized nation should behave. Not murderous thugs rampaging illegally around innocent countries, serving as willing tools for corporate funded politicians. What world do you live in where you can even make such a ridiculous comparison?

I see Meth is Legal in Canada?

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » September 17, 2006, 12:05 am

wow totally awesome insult dude

Nick · Post by **Nick** » September 17, 2006, 2:49 am

Winnow that is possibly the most retarded article ever linked to VeeshanVault....ever....I bet even Metanis is jealous.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · September 17, 2006, 10:07 am

Nick wrote:Winnow that is possibly the most retarded article ever linked to VeeshanVault....ever....I bet even Metanis is jealous.

Yeah, it shows an opposing point of view. Horrific.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » September 17, 2006, 2:21 pm

The notion that Canadians should live our lives in a constant state of near panic, throw away our freedoms and let our government spy on anyone they want to because we might get attacked one day by terrorists is the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard. Canadians already know were targets for terror groups. Weve already arrested two different groups planning attacks. We are just smart enough to not let it dictate ever facet of our lives.

What is the point of living in the most free nation in the world if we are willing to just throw it away just because a bunch of miserable savages on the other side of the country want us to?

You fear mongering cowards would do well by taking some pointers from your brave neighbors to the north. Although the way your government treats other nations it is no wonder you're so worried about backlash.

MooZilla · Post by **MooZilla** » September 17, 2006, 4:09 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:
Kylere wrote:Funk is a complete fucking moron.

Just because I do not own a gun does not mean there should not be a right to own one.
Just because I do not drink does not mean I should be able to bar others.
Just because I choose not to pop E does not mean I should deny Xzion

Rights are not there to protect criminals, they exist to protect our citizens. Not that it matter much with loser fucks like Funk and his fake girlfriends this country will have to have a totalitarian state of some kind before they realzie what they gave up.

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
THat is why we restrict the rights of the goverment. We are not insisting that people should be able to do whatever they want. We have merely placed needed controls on those who control our lives. The reason these are important is that without them, the rest of it (the Constitution) is just wishful thinking.

- Think Funk will try to IRLPK me for telling the truth? Sweet! If he does I will deliver the aluminium foil hat he needs to his hospital room.
Typical response from most anyone in this forum to anyone that doesn't have your same paranoid set of beliefs.
Why do you see something like this the beginning of the end instead of what it is, giving the government the things they need to bring bad people down.
This isn't going to be a snowball effect where next thing you know you have no rights.. but think what you want.

History has a pattern.

The denying of basic rights such as privacy, etc., is always a starting point for governments to further deny people of other human rights. I'm not trying to say that we have some "1984" control scheme in the mix like you think us liberal nuts do. Read the Bill of Rights.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · September 17, 2006, 6:03 pm

MooZilla wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:
Kylere wrote:Funk is a complete fucking moron.

Just because I do not own a gun does not mean there should not be a right to own one.
Just because I do not drink does not mean I should be able to bar others.
Just because I choose not to pop E does not mean I should deny Xzion

Rights are not there to protect criminals, they exist to protect our citizens. Not that it matter much with loser fucks like Funk and his fake girlfriends this country will have to have a totalitarian state of some kind before they realzie what they gave up.

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
THat is why we restrict the rights of the goverment. We are not insisting that people should be able to do whatever they want. We have merely placed needed controls on those who control our lives. The reason these are important is that without them, the rest of it (the Constitution) is just wishful thinking.

- Think Funk will try to IRLPK me for telling the truth? Sweet! If he does I will deliver the aluminium foil hat he needs to his hospital room.
Typical response from most anyone in this forum to anyone that doesn't have your same paranoid set of beliefs.
Why do you see something like this the beginning of the end instead of what it is, giving the government the things they need to bring bad people down.
This isn't going to be a snowball effect where next thing you know you have no rights.. but think what you want.
History has a pattern.

The denying of basic rights such as privacy, etc., is always a starting point for governments to further deny people of other human rights. I'm not trying to say that we have some "1984" control scheme in the mix like you think us liberal nuts do. Read the Bill of Rights.

Well said.