According to the Republican Senator from Indiana, at the White House's request, a bailout for pharmaceutical companies to protect them from an improperly tested vaccine vehicle.
there are suspicions that a mercury containing compound that is used as a component of vaccines routinely may be linked to autism. No studies have provided a conclusive link at this point, so who knows.
But i didnt realize protection for the Homeland Security Act had to do with protecting Pharmaceutical companies from legal action from improperly tested medicine components.
Gee maybe it was because
1. they bought this legislation
2. they had it attached to a pice of legislation that was sure to pass
3. it was passed after the election, and was a slam dunk no doubt pass. no republican could vote against it.
4. the committee who put the legislation together denies adding this provision, as does the White House. Yet it is there.
Thank god the Republicans made good on their promises to reduce the power of campaign contribution and special interest groups in the Contract for America.
This is Sen. Frist (Tenn - R) M.D.'s spin on it, so there is your equal time and then some.
my point is why was this item in the Homeland Security Act to begin with?
because it would pass
why are bullshit riders like this allowed to be put into legislation?
because our government often favors those who can pay, which are rarely We the People.
edit: removed inflammatory flamevault speach(TM)
i'm 100% for honoring the scientific process. But science is an afterthought to both agendas in this debate i think.
another important bit of information.
the ingredient in question thimerosol, was removed from vaccines a couple of years ago. the legislation, if i understand correctly reduces the statute of limitations for claims on this to be 3 years from point of administration. which means it gives them insurance that if a link with this chemical is established to autism, it is too late for people to be compensated.
i cant believe they had a mercury containing molecule in children's vaccines, that is crazy.
Last edited by Voronwë on December 11, 2002, 3:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Find the senator/house member who's home state is the largest manufacturer of vaccines (not sure who that is) and you'll probably find their hands in the cookie jar on this.
Adex, 100% agree with you. this is not something that one party is more guilty of than others.
one party did recently campaign on the righteousness of the bill in question though, at the expense of people who had not yet committed votes to it. maybe they had good reason to withhold votes afterall.
On a different subject involving our lovely government, I have two things you'll find interesting...
"We have no choice but to obey international law," Fleischer said. "What Yemen has done ... does not provide a threat to the United States. We do have ongoing concerns about North Korea's efforts to sell arms around the world."
"Defense officials said the shipment — 15 missiles as well as missile parts and fuel — violated an agreement Yemen made with the United States not to buy such equipment from North Korea, which Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld has called the world's worst missile proliferator. "
Ok.. let's understand this. First, they say Yemen getting missles doesn't provide a threat to America. Uh, right. Next, they say that Yemen violated an agreement with the US in regards to buying missles from Korea.
The Yemenis have given the United States assurances that they will not transfer the missiles to anyone, Fleischer said.
And Iraq has given the world assurances that it has no weapons of mass destruction.
is Osama bin Laden (news - web sites)'s ancestral homeland, was the site of the bombing of a U.S. warship and has vast lawless areas where al-Qaida members and other terrorists are believed to hide out.
But it's no threat to the US that it's receiving missles.. that it promised not to do anymore.
The weapons were hidden under a cargo of cement and crew members initially lied about their identity
If they aren't doing anything wrong, why are they hiding them? Why are they lying about them? Why are they not considered a threat?
--------------------
"In a new defense strategy submitted to Congress on Wednesday, President Bush warned Iraq and other hostile countries that the United States is prepared to use "overwhelming force" — including nuclear weapons"
Who was it again that didn't believe Bush would get us all killed?
It is typical bullshit that goes on all the time, on either side of the row. And it should be stopped. Each bill should be passed on it's own merit individually.
Adex_Xeda wrote:That's what will probably happen in Pakistan in the future.
It already has once, until recently we'd been giving them the cold shoulder for 15(?) years. When they wouldn't do as they were told concerning thier nuclear program (I think) we walked away.
We were best buddies until the mid-late 80s.
"Life is what happens while you're making plans for later."
Siji wrote:Who was it again that didn't believe Bush would get us all killed?
You forgot to mention from that exact same article it mentioned that Al Gore agreed with Bush's strategy.
In rare agreement with the White House, former Vice President Al Gore embraced his rival's strategy. ``As presented, Al Gore feels this is in keeping with America's long-held strategy of using our own weapons of mass destruction principally to dissuade any aggressor from using their WMD arsenal against us,'' said spokesman Alejandro Cabrera.
The homeland defense bill is just another one of those big scams that started out as a good bill but was wrestled into an ungodly, rights stealing monstrosity. Originally the bill was only like 70 pages long, by the time it was voted on it had ballooned to several thousand pages. Mostly it was pork added by republicans and that had absolutely nothing to do with homeland security at all.
The GOP obviously has all your best interests in mind. After all, you elected them to represent you properly, so they should be trusted implicitly on all things without question. After all, they are privvy to all sorts of intelligence data that you don't have a right to know. They probably just know something you are too stupid to understand. If you don't like it, then vote them out next election and then re-write all your bills. Yeah, that's a really good idea.
There was a lot more pork added than anyone can imagine so far:
$2,000,000. - Research related to mad cow disease.
$2,500,000. - Vaccine trials related to foot and mouth disease.
$3,000,000. - Cattle genome sequencing.
Re-deploy departmental funds to sustain Honey Bee research on tracheal mites.
$85,000,000. - Office of Community Oriented Policing Services (COPS) Interoperable Communications Technology program, to be designed and implemented by the COPS office. This amount is $85,000,000 above the budget request.
$50,000,000. -Construction of the National Animal Disease Laboratory, Ames, Iowa.
$19,022,000. - Animal health surveillance.
$21,550,000. - Pest detection activities.
$100,000,000 - Recovery operations of the Watershed Protection Program.
Re-deploy departmental funds to sustain the Senior Farmers' Market Nutrition Program which encourages senior's to purchase fresh produce.
$450,000,000. - Office of Justice Programs to establish an election reform grant program.
$3,000,000. - National Ocean Service to enhance the National Water Level Observation.
$21,400,000. - National Ocean Service to address mapping and charting backlog.
$7,200,000. - A supercomputer backup system for the National Oceanic and Atmosphere Administration.
$11,000,000. - Economic assistance for the New England fishing industry.
$25,000,000 - Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority for a back-up operations control center.
$10,000,000. - Army Corps of Engineers to assist with the recovery efforts resulting from flooding in Southern West Virginia, Eastern Kentucky and Southwestern Virginia.
$700,000. - Biomass project at Winona, Mississippi.
Department of Energy to award a contract for the design, construction and operation of facilities for the conversion and disposition of depleted uranium hexafluroide on each of the sites of the gaseous diffusion plants at Paducah, Kentucky and Portsmouth, Ohio.
$3,000,000. - Department of Interior, Bureau of Reclamation for drilling five wells in Santa Fe, NM.
$50,000,000. - Humanitarian, refugee, and reconstruction assistance for the West Bank and Gaza.
$34,000,000. - United Nations Population Fund. (approved in last budget)
$412,000. - Fish and Wildlife Service through resource management for continuity of operations at the National Conservation Training Center.
$765,000. - Security needs at the Clark R. Bavin National Fish and Wildlife Forensics Laboratory.
$20,000,000 - Provided to the Survey for high resolution mapping and imagery of the Nation's most strategic cities and $6,776,000 is provided to the Earth Resources Observation System Data Center (EDC). Of the amounts provided to EDC, $6,000,000 is for storage infrastructure upgrades to convert all archived data on outdated types of media to disk-based storage, and $776,000 is provided for an improved backup power supply system that will ensure the uninterrupted delivery of satellite data.
$2,000,000. - Initiate the planning and design of an alcohol collection storage facility located in Suitland, Maryland for The Smithsonian's collections of preserved animal species.
Clarify the grant for the New Mexico Telecommunications Call Center Training Consortium that was provided in the Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2001 by June 30, 2002.
$43,000,000. - Grants to AMTRAK. $20,000,000 to repair damaged passenger equipment, and $23,000,000 for the heavy overhaul of the rail passenger fleet.
$4,400,000,000. - Increase in spending for Highway Program for fiscal year 2003.
General provision clarifying the re-alignment of funds for a highway project in Mississippi made eligible for enhancement funds in the Transportation Appropriations Act for fiscal year 2001.
$2,750,000. - Delaware River Port project and the Philadelphia, PA (Drexel) project.
$2,000,000. - Customs Service to monitor and investigate the importation in the U.S. products made with forced labor.
$80,000,000. -Cerro Grande Fire Claims to cover the remaining liability resulting from the fire.
$2,500,000. - Coral Reef program to conduct coral mapping in the waters of the Hawaiian Islands.
Re-deploy funds to the Incarcerated Youth Offenders program grants to State correctional agencies to assist incarcerated youth acquire literacy and job skills.
$1,000,000. - Conversion of low-income subsidized housing property in Baltimore, Maryland to student housing.
$11,000,000. - For OSHA Training Grants to continue non-competitively the previous year's grantees.
$750,000. - Clarify previously appropriated funds to the Smart Start Child Care Center and Expertise School at Las Vegas, Nevada.
REDUCED SECURITY:
$13,000,000. - From unobligated balances available in the Drug Enforcement Administration, Violent Crime Reduction Programs.
$2,500,000. - Not provided as requested for the Capital Investment Fund for the Coalition Against Terrorism (CAT) matrix.
$3,600,000. - General expenses of the U.S. Capitol Police. These funds are needed for unanticipated expenses associated with the increased security posture.
Fallanthas wrote:Downright shameful, and a black eye to American politics.
This is why a line-item veto should be an expressed power of the presidential office(subject of course to checks and balances).
Someone needs to be made personally accountable for allowing this kind of crap.
It cracks me up that something comes along that your government is doing that doesn't include dropping laser guided bombs on brown people and all of a sudden you start spewing about accountability.
well the problem is though on the line-item veto front, is that wouldnt solve this issue. the original item i brought up was inserted by the White House, though they deny it.
Where have I ever called for less government accountability?
Drop your hard on for slamming me and realize that rationality means addressing individual points rather than accepting dogma.
Voronwe,
Maybe it would not have stopped this piece of political pork. Line-item veto power would insure that the President would not be able to dodge repsonsibility for the pork being int he finished product.
I have to think that would weigh on the mind of a politician, eh?
This is really nothing shocking or new. Both parties have been porking up their legislation for decades now. It's unfortunate, but it's going to be a fact of life for quite some time to come.
A presidential line-item veto would have been great (in theory), but it's not as if a president even would have the de facto power to use it. He's not going to bite the hands that feed him.
Line item veto gives way too much power to the executive branch. It would allow the President to in effect write laws by changing bills brought before them. Thw whole purpose of the Congress is to pass bills to be signed into law. Congress alone should decide what's in the bill, the President then has the authority to sign it or Veto it, or what not.
Of course, there is some overlap between the branches - the Supreme Court in effect makes law by deciding which cases to review, and further, by deciding which cases to overturn as unconstituitional. But by and large, seperation of powers with respect to each branch should be kept intact as much as possible.
Don't bother trying to explain yourself to Kyocunt. She doesn't understand. She just spews out old stuff you said and think because she does so it will detract from the point you are trying to make at the current time. She is either a very young person or just feeble-minded. /shrug
As long as the President is accountable, (aka we can vote him out) I'm comfortable giving him a line item veto.
It would force Congress to change the way they make bills. If some senator wants dairy cow subsidies he'll now have to bring it out in the open and debate it, not slip it in quietly under another bill.
Hell I think it would be cool to have a group of ten US citizens selected by lottery to 6-month terms. The group's whole job would be to call bullshit or not on law proposals right before the proposals went to the president.
You can't politically bribe a guy selected at random for a short term.
Yeah, you would have to come up with a way to balance that kind of power.
If the line-item worked the way a standard veto does, the item in question would have to be sent back to the congress for a super-majority vote to pass.
I doubt much 'pork' would make it through that kind of process.
At the very least, a line-item veto would focus attention on items the Pres. singled out of a bill.
Where have I ever called for less government accountability?
Fallanthas YESTERDAY wrote:
I seriously think you "right-to-know" folks need to go back to civics class.
You have a right to vote a political candidate in or out of office based on his or her actions and decisions during their previous term.
Nowhere, NOFUCKINGWHERE are you given the right to see every piece of intelligence material available to elected officials.
Take your questions and multiply them times the population of the U.S. Now take your potential to say something about sensitive material in an open conversation and apply the same multiplier.
If you still think you have a "right-to-know" you are either totally clueless or under the age of 14.
Line item veto does not eliminate pork. It does however give the president the power to decide what pork gets passed and what pork does not get passed. It would tip the scale too much towards the executive branch.
The best way to eliminate pork imo is to have some sort of limitations on how many laws can be in a certain bill, or at least what types of laws can be in a bill, meaning all the proposals have to pertain to the objective of the bill. Each law should be passed on its own merit, not "I'll vote for your farmers if you include a lil something for my fishermen back home."
It should be, "I support this law because I think it is what is best for this country".
One thing is for sure, this type of thinking has become endangered in our national gov't.
I tell it like a true mackadelic.
Founder of Ixtlan - the SCUM of Veeshan.
Yes, that is a pwn. However, it's hard to feel any sort of joy because it's kinda like beating a retard in chess or something. It was never a fair fight to begin with.
kyoukan type-R wrote:The GOP obviously has all your best interests in mind. After all, you elected them to represent you properly, so they should be trusted implicitly on all things without question. After all, they are privvy to all sorts of intelligence data that you don't have a right to know. They probably just know something you are too stupid to understand. If you don't like it, then vote them out next election and then re-write all your bills. Yeah, that's a really good idea.
1) They should be trusted implicity on ALL things without question? Okay, given A) It is the American governement and corrupt in many places,
B) it is our right and responsiblity to question our leaders,
C) they do not know jack about hardly anythng aside from politics (which is why they have their position, we aren't really given the option to elect one person to make a differance) and
D) You are ignorant of the world at large and general are product of your own little illusionary enviornment:
I do not think there will be much implicit trusting here. Especially not with Bush now talking first strike strategies.
Hell, lets break it down, AGAIN, to it's fundamental level.
Politics
Poli=Many
Tics=Blood sucking parasites
As for the irony behind your comment regarding warfare strategy and congress, I will tell you this. What the fuck do a bunch of senators know of real war anyway. For that matter, what do you? Have you ever killed someone with a gun? What about a knife? What about at all?
Or have you ever had to watch your friends die around you quickly, knowing that it is you that has to explain to their family why they were shot in the face fighting for some bullshit ideal like vietnam, or anything else?
You see, the differance is that you actually think we went into Vietnam to stop communism, while I know we went into war to help line LBJ's and other high ranking officals on both sides of the wars pockets with arms and gun money that came at the cost of the blood of Americans.
Point is this: They know nothing. The generals that advise, hell yes, but congress knows nothing of the rues of war, and really niether do you.
Do I? No, I cannot say that I have had that experience, and never want to have it. I see the seniors in my family speak of WW2, Vietnam, etc.
They are forever fucked up because of wars, and Bush wants to incite one.
Wow this turned into a rant....
In closing, I think it would be a good idea to expect those leaders of ours to be present of the field of battle if they opt for war. I bet you they would re-evaluate it if they had not the luxury of sending other men to die while they remain safe in D.C., or wherever.
Actually, just had a thought. I would not put it past the people under Bush to come up with a clever strategy. The bluff.
Question: Why do we know that Bush is even gearing up for first strike?
Answer: Side effect, an indirect one of making the enemy know. They must monitor our papers and press efforts as a nation.
What if all the US Government is doing is one big bluff to scare the shit out of Saddam and make him more compliant in the inspections, or anything else. I tell you, if I thought some nut job world leader whose nation is the most powerful in the world, was gonna come down on me with Nuclear weapons, I would fucking comply
FFT
kyoukan type-R wrote:The GOP obviously has all your best interests in mind. After all, you elected them to represent you properly, so they should be trusted implicitly on all things without question. After all, they are privvy to all sorts of intelligence data that you don't have a right to know. They probably just know something you are too stupid to understand. If you don't like it, then vote them out next election and then re-write all your bills. Yeah, that's a really good idea.
1) They should be trusted implicity on ALL things without question? Okay, given A) It is the American governement and corrupt in many places,
B) it is our right and responsiblity to question our leaders,
C) they do not know jack about hardly anythng aside from politics (which is why they have their position, we aren't really given the option to elect one person to make a differance) and
D) You are ignorant of the world at large and general are product of your own little illusionary enviornment:
I do not think there will be much implicit trusting here. Especially not with Bush now talking first strike strategies.
Hell, lets break it down, AGAIN, to it's fundamental level.
Politics
Poli=Many
Tics=Blood sucking parasites
As for the irony behind your comment regarding warfare strategy and congress, I will tell you this. What the fuck do a bunch of senators know of real war anyway. For that matter, what do you? Have you ever killed someone with a gun? What about a knife? What about at all?
Or have you ever had to watch your friends die around you quickly, knowing that it is you that has to explain to their family why they were shot in the face fighting for some bullshit ideal like vietnam, or anything else?
You see, the differance is that you actually think we went into Vietnam to stop communism, while I know we went into war to help line LBJ's and other high ranking officals on both sides of the wars pockets with arms and gun money that came at the cost of the blood of Americans.
Point is this: They know nothing. The generals that advise, hell yes, but congress knows nothing of the rues of war, and really niether do you.
Do I? No, I cannot say that I have had that experience, and never want to have it. I see the seniors in my family speak of WW2, Vietnam, etc.
They are forever fucked up because of wars, and Bush wants to incite one.
Wow this turned into a rant....
In closing, I think it would be a good idea to expect those leaders of ours to be present of the field of battle if they opt for war. I bet you they would re-evaluate it if they had not the luxury of sending other men to die while they remain safe in D.C., or wherever.
Heh, Falla.
Us having intamite knowledge of the inner workings and activities to our most secretive ops are not nessicarily our right to know under the law.
I agree with Falla when he states this is meant in a differant light. It does not mean that the government should not be accountable, just means that the public has not the access to intelligence.
What does that make a couple of high-school social studies dropouts who spend their time trying to invent rights?
The entire public education system in this country (including college) is fuckered. Although I did learn a lot in high school, I learned moreso that to succeed you don't really need to learn the material, you just need to learn the material that the teacher wants you to learn. If you identify that aspect of a teacher, you will pass the class with flying colors.
In college it was no different, except that the professors were more fanatical in what they wanted you to learn. As I advanced to the higher level classes, I found that more and more social studies teachers put their own personal agendas into the material. I excelled in these classes simply b/c I knew how to work the system, not because of my actual knowledge in said subject.
Finally, in my very last semester, I had a professor who was by far the most racist biggot I have ever had the displeasure of meeting, teaching a course called Human Interraction and Communication. Granted, I live in Oklahoma and it is one of the most bass ackward states in the union, I still marveled at how such a man could get a PhD.
I realized that this man had the same talent I did, he knew how to beat the system. Moreover, he got himself into a position of spreading his noxious ideologies to the stupid impressionable people going through his course. I wrote an essay refuting his ideas and pointing out the blatant fucking biggotry that he spewed in his lectures. Then I stopped going to the class and subsequently failed it. It was the only class I have ever failed.
I dropped out of school and decided to forego that piece of paper that legitimizes my knowledge to the rest of the world b/c I refuse to be a part of such a corrupt and fallible system, even if it meant a lifetime of blue-collar work. My degree would have been (is) in philosophy.
My point? Whether Kyou is a drop out or not does not invalidate her calling you out on your own self-contradiction.
I say to my government, you wanna bomb another country into oblivion, even threaten to nuke 'em? Show me PROOF that this country is a threat RIGHT NOW to you. Not evidence, not propaganda, FUCKING PROOF. That is the only reason my own friends who are in the military should go and risk their lives.
Not only is the gov't accountable for its actions, it has a RESPONSIBILITY to conduct matters in accordance with the wishes of its citizens.
You have a right to vote a political candidate in or out of office based on his or her actions and decisions during their previous term.
You porport that the only time an elected official is held accountable is at election time. The rest of the time they have in office they can go fucking willy-nilly and do what they want, even if it contradicts the wishes of his/her constituents, like your good ole buddy Trent Lott (another man who knows how to work and beat the system).
I don't blame this flaw in your ideology on your obvious lack of education, I blame it on your inability to understand what the fuck debates like this are all about. That is why you get pwnd every damn time you post.
I tell it like a true mackadelic.
Founder of Ixtlan - the SCUM of Veeshan.
Number one, it's not an idealogical question, IT"S THE GODDAMNED LAW! You will not, ever be given access to anything close to all the information that goes into these decisions. See the other thread if you can't figure out why for yourself.
Number two, Lott is a piece of shit who would make a deal with Satan to get those last two votes.
Number three, if you cannot see the diffference between holding a government accountable for it's actions (such as pork riders on important legislation) and revealing inteligence information to citizens under some trumped-up 'right' then your problem goes a hell of a lot farther than not finishing high school.
you just need to learn the material that the teacher wants you to learn
Sadly, this was the only point in your post that is true. Learning by rote encourages this. I wish I had a better suggestion on how to educate the mass of people we run through our schools.
You forgot to mention from that exact same article it mentioned that Al Gore agreed with Bush's strategy.
My apologies. That bit you quoted either wasn't in the article I was quoting, or I somehow missed it. IMHO both sides are just as corrupt as the other.
Trent Lott wrote: want to say this about my state: When Strom Thurmond ran for president we voted for him. We're proud of it. And if the rest of the country had of followed our lead we wouldn't have had all these problems over all these years, either
Strom Thurmand in his 1948 Presidential Campaign wrote:there's not enough troops in the Army to force the Southern people to break down segregation and admit the nigger race into our theaters, into our swimming pools, into our homes, and into our churches
The party that Thurmand ran for in 1948 was the States Rights party, a party that specifically was created to perpetuate segregation. You can't say you support Thurmond's presidency campaign and qualify it outside of this isssue. It was the #1 and central issue to the party's platform.
Acies wrote:You see, the differance is that you actually think we went into Vietnam to stop communism, while I know we went into war to help line LBJ's and other high ranking officals on both sides of the wars pockets with arms and gun money that came at the cost of the blood of Americans.
Actually, Kennedy was the first to send Americans into Vietnam ...
Acies wrote:You see, the differance is that you actually think we went into Vietnam to stop communism, while I know we went into war to help line LBJ's and other high ranking officals on both sides of the wars pockets with arms and gun money that came at the cost of the blood of Americans.
Actually, Kennedy was the first to send Americans into Vietnam ...
Trent Lott wrote: want to say this about my state: When Strom Thurmond ran for president we voted for him. We're proud of it. And if the rest of the country had of followed our lead we wouldn't have had all these problems over all these years, either
Strom Thurmand in his 1948 Presidential Campaign wrote:there's not enough troops in the Army to force the Southern people to break down segregation and admit the nigger race into our theaters, into our swimming pools, into our homes, and into our churches
The party that Thurmand ran for in 1948 was the States Rights party, a party that specifically was created to perpetuate segregation. You can't say you support Thurmond's presidency campaign and qualify it outside of this isssue. It was the #1 and central issue to the party's platform.
That was different time back then. Society has come a long way since then.
Trent Lott wrote: want to say this about my state: When Strom Thurmond ran for president we voted for him. We're proud of it. And if the rest of the country had of followed our lead we wouldn't have had all these problems over all these years, either
Strom Thurmand in his 1948 Presidential Campaign wrote:there's not enough troops in the Army to force the Southern people to break down segregation and admit the nigger race into our theaters, into our swimming pools, into our homes, and into our churches
The party that Thurmand ran for in 1948 was the States Rights party, a party that specifically was created to perpetuate segregation. You can't say you support Thurmond's presidency campaign and qualify it outside of this isssue. It was the #1 and central issue to the party's platform.
That was different time back then. Society has come a long way since then.
Yeah, so far that our country's Majority Leader is indirectly advocating that kind of policy...We sure have come a long way!
Lalanae Burundi High Chancellor for Tourism, Sodomy and Pie
Unofficial Canadian, Forbidden Lover of Pie, Jesus-Hatin'' Sodomite, President of KFC (Kyoukan Fan Club), hawt, perververted, intellectual submissive with E.S.P (Extra Sexual Persuasion)
yeah lala , the progress is that he didnt actually use the word "nigger".
but aside from inflamatory rhetoric, yes society has progressed a great deal. which is exactly why the ignorance of the past should not be given lip service by the leaders of the present. racism was wrong in 1948 Thurmond was a lunatic cracker 50 years ago. Those ideas today are even more absurd.
It is absolutely shameful that Lott said what he did. Anybody can make a misstatement though, so that is no big deal. But Lott made the EXACT same statement in 1980. If you follow the National Review Article i posted (a conservative editorial magazine) you will see that this is part of a pattern of behavior by this fool.
Acies wrote:You see, the differance is that you actually think we went into Vietnam to stop communism, while I know we went into war to help line LBJ's and other high ranking officals on both sides of the wars pockets with arms and gun money that came at the cost of the blood of Americans.
Actually, Kennedy was the first to send Americans into Vietnam ...
Actually, it was Eisenhower...
doh - forgot about his "advisors". Though I do believe the first casualities attributed to the Vietnam war were under Kennedy.
