Doggy treats

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » August 15, 2006, 4:32 am

Asian people have a peculiar sense of humor. Keep an eye on the dog's eyes. That is an animal in anguish, yet I can't help but laugh.

http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?vid=5 ... 92&cache=1

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » August 15, 2006, 4:42 am

Pure evil, there's your foreign devils right there.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » August 15, 2006, 4:44 am

That is just a well disciplined dog. My german shepherd will sit all day with a treat on his nose and not flinch. Then he pops it up into the air and catches it in his mouth.

Sure he wants it, and eventually he'll get one unless the person is really cruel. Dogs do shit like that because on a rudimentary level they know they'll get rewarded if they do it.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » August 15, 2006, 1:29 pm

kyoukan wrote: Sure he wants it, and eventually he'll get one unless the person is really cruel. Dogs do shit like that because on a rudimentary level they know they'll get rewarded if they do it.

Or you'll beat it with a stick if it doesn't. Don't kid yourself. Dogs would chow it right down if not for prior beatings for doing so.

Hesten · Post by **Hesten** » August 15, 2006, 7:01 pm

I was SO rooting for that dog to eat that lady and the cameraman.

Poor thing, if a dog could cry, it would be doing it after the 5th piece, the rest was just cruel.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » August 15, 2006, 8:25 pm

Winnow wrote:Or you'll beat it with a stick if it doesn't. Don't kid yourself. Dogs would chow it right down if not for prior beatings for doing so.

I've never come close to hitting my dog. What kind of a fucking idiot thinks that hitting a dog is a good way to teach it discipline?

Oh, wait..

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » August 15, 2006, 8:41 pm

You beat it like a baby seal.

Arsecn · Post by **Arsecn** » August 16, 2006, 12:22 am

Batter up!

noel · Post by **noel** » August 16, 2006, 1:45 am

I agree with Kyoukan. My dog never, ever eats food without the permission of my wife or myself. This includes food that drops on the floor. He looks at us before he moves on it and waits for an 'ok' for us. I've put food on his snout before and made him wait, but I'm not huge on doing that.

I don't know why anyone would think there was a beating involved in getting the dog to do that. Dogs live to please you and hate to disappoint you. Once they know the what behavior you like, they'll do it without asking and it makes them happy to do it.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » August 16, 2006, 2:09 am

noel wrote: I don't know why anyone would think there was a beating involved in getting the dog to do that. Dogs live to please you and hate to disappoint you. Once they know the what behavior you like, they'll do it without asking and it makes them happy to do it.

Are you serious or making a joke? Man, sad to see someone thinking that their pet actually likes them or wants to please them just for the hell of it.

The idea that dogs feel emotions, specifically love, is debatable. Though older schools of scientific thought refuted the notion that dogs had human-like feelings, some researchers today believe the subject deserves more attention.

All mammals, including dogs, have a "pleasure center" in their brains that is stimulated by dopamine, the chemical that regulates feelings of happiness. For example, when a dog is playing fetch, dopamine is released in the pleasure center and the dog is "happy." Since humans have similar brain chemistry, can we assume that dogs and humans are much more alike emotionally than previously thought?

According to Fred Metzger, a guest lecturer in animal sciences at Penn State and a State College veterinarian, "Dogs probably don't feel love in the typical way humans do. Dogs make investments in human beings because it works for them. They stand something to gain from putting so-called emotions out there. The more 'cute factor' they give us, the more we feel like they love us. This makes it more likely that we will give them more attention, food treats, outdoor access -- all based on how much of a show they put on for us." Metzger theorized that dogs "love" us as long as we continue to reward their tricks and antics with treats and attention.

In a statement sure to shock dog lovers everywhere, Metzger added, "If we moved our dogs to our neighbor's house and that neighbor gave the dogs as much as we gave them and in the same motivational forms, I believe our dogs would adapt to the new life and would become as loyal to the neighbor as they were to us."

Source: Penn State

Do dogs really want to please their owners

Wouldn’t that be great? Then all you’d have to do to get your dog to stop chasing the cat, for example, is to just let him know how pleased you’d be if he wouldn’t. It’s not that simple. Still, we’ve all heard the idea that dogs have an inborn need to please their masters; that when a dog knows you’re his pack leader he’ll respect you and obey your commands in order to please you.

Given careful thought we have to realize that this simply isn’t true. A dog obeys for one of two reasons; either to avoid a negative experience (like being punished or corrected), or to attain a positive feeling state or to be given a reward (like a liver treat, a ball to chase, or being praised or petted). Either way, he’s focused on his experience, not yours.

It's easy to mistake a dog’s reasons for responding to either punishment or reward. A dog may take on an appeasement manner when anticipating a negative experience. This is misconstrued by some people as guilt or as a desire to please when in fact, it’s a fear of punishment, pure and simple. With food rewards, it’s easier to see that the dog doesn’t care about pleasing you, per se; he just wants you to feed him. Either way, a dog’s only concern is pleasing himself. He has no interest in pleasing you.

In reality, a dog doesn’t have the mental capability to know what anyone else might need to be happy. This would require several levels of thinking that don’t exist in the dog’s mind, among them the abilities for self-reflection, projection, and hypothetical thinking. Even if dogs did have such mental capacities, I don’t think they would waste their time trying to please us—they’re too practical for that. To a dog humans are too weird, too unpredictable. Something that pleases us one minute might displease us the next. No dog is going to waste time worrying about how to make us feel good. He’ll just respond to us in a positive way when we do. In fact, dogs thrive on positive emotions. They have what some might call an innate, genetic need to connect emotionally with other members of their pack. It’s an important aspect of their prey drive because it’s what enables them to read the emotions of their companions while chasing and ambushing prey.

Noysyrump · Post by **Noysyrump** » August 16, 2006, 2:44 am

It is in fact a natural response.

Dogs (wolves) in the wild wait their turn to eat based on the pecking order. The aplha's (wich should be you, the owner) always eat first and the others take there turn ONLY after they are "told" to do so.

Read a book or something people.

VariaVespasa · Post by **VariaVespasa** » August 16, 2006, 2:44 am

Besides, this dog apparently gets to eat everything put on its head when it eventually falls off, so he may be smart enough to have figured out that the longer he holds still and puts up with it the more he eventually gets. Definitely need to invest in a drool bucket for that dog though- Pavlov would have drowned if all his dogs were like this one.

*Hugs*
Varia

Hesten · Post by **Hesten** » August 16, 2006, 4:39 am

Noysyrump wrote:It is in fact a natural response.

Dogs (wolves) in the wild wait their turn to eat based on the pecking order. The aplha's (wich should be you, the owner) always eat first and the others take there turn ONLY after they are "told" to do so.

Read a book or something people.

Hehe, thats true.
My dads dog not only dont eat without an OK, but sometimes she come running in with bones (she mainly get bones, good old dog diet. Try it and you will see the difference), and start barking at my dad and his wive, untill they have both pretended to eat from the bone, she wont eat before they have done that, but shes impatient, so she come barking

noel · Post by **noel** » August 16, 2006, 10:00 am

Winnow wrote:Are you serious or making a joke? Man, sad to see someone thinking that their pet actually likes them or wants to please them just for the hell of it.

As Noysyrump said, my dog's pack leader is me. He does what I tell him to do because A) he gets what he wants by doing so and B) he chooses to. He has no fear of a beating of any kind because he's never experienced one. He always comes when I call him because he's never been called to me for something negative. He's always gotten affection by doing so. You can debate whether or not a dog loves a person or is capable of loving a person as long as you want, I really don't care and am not going to worry about it. In important situations my dog does what I tell him to do, the rest of the time he behaves, and other than a few tricks that's all I really ask of him.

If you're truly dying to unravel the mystery of dog/human relationship, I recommend this book.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » August 16, 2006, 12:52 pm

He's no more than a trained seal. At some point, dominance over the helpless puppy had to be established and maintained.

I don't see the coolness of taking advantage of being "pack leader" over a dog to make them do stupid things. They just want some food and water and probably a dog of the opposite sex to mate with.

Pets are a nice gimmick for old people to feel needed and I think that's a good thing for their health. People should realize that any "affection" for a dog is one way. If they really liked people, women wouldn't have to use peanut butter to...damn meeting.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » August 16, 2006, 2:35 pm

Winnow wrote:He's no more than a trained seal. At some point, dominance over the helpless puppy had to be established and maintained.

I don't see the coolness of taking advantage of being "pack leader" over a dog to make them do stupid things. They just want some food and water and probably a dog of the opposite sex to mate with.

Pets are a nice gimmick for old people to feel needed and I think that's a good thing for their health. People should realize that any "affection" for a dog is one way. If they really liked people, women wouldn't have to use peanut butter to...damn meeting.

Were you the little boy who threw dogs off of balconies, or did you just never have an actual companion pet?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » August 16, 2006, 4:36 pm

Boogahz wrote: Were you the little boy who threw dogs off of balconies, or did you just never have an actual companion pet?

Nope, had two great dogs growing up. I don't dislike dogs just because I don't think they have any attachment to their owners. I didn't make my dog suffer with food on its nose or pretend my dogs were special for following their basic instincts.

We had one great dog that was a model citizen and another that bit 17 people in his career (little dachshund). He had a liver condition and we spent thousands buying him special food, making special shipments from the U.S. to Sardinia, Italy, etc. We never beat him but I think the mail man maced him through the front door mail slot once so he went Cujo on all future mailmen as well. Thankfully my dad had some rank and pull on base or we would have been booted off or would have had to put the tyrant dog to sleep.

Anyway, we went way above and beyond the call of duty for the psycho dog and he had his good, fun moments even though he kept us on our toes, but that doesn't change the fact that he didn't give a rats ass about us even though he knew some tricks and would sit and stay when told...on the other hand, if you gave him a bone, you dropped it and ran or risked being bite victim #18...he wasn't waiting for anyone's permission. If I wanted to be mean like the people putting food on their dog's nose, I could have made him do other stupid tricks beforehand I suppose. I guess I didnt need that sort of self gratification from an animal to make my day better before feeding them.

noel · Post by **noel** » August 16, 2006, 4:43 pm

A dog that bites people is the fault of the owner not the dog. It's not the dog's nature to do that no matter what you think.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » August 16, 2006, 4:50 pm

noel wrote:A dog that bites people is the fault of the owner not the dog. It's not the dog's nature to do that no matter what you think.

Bullshit. We had two dogs, both treated exactly the same. One bit 17 people and the other was dog perfection.

You're starting to lose your grip if you don't think various breeds of dog have different temperament or are beyond having mental issues that are genetic or acquired the same way humans get diseases, etc.

You can't be serious.

noel · Post by **noel** » August 16, 2006, 5:00 pm

Some dogs are submissive, some are dominant. This is how they establish themselves as pack leaders vs. pack members. If you as the humans don't establish yourselves as pack leaders with a submissive dog they might still accept you as their pack leader. If you as a human don't establish yourself as the pack leader with a dominant dog then you're fucked.

Breed is part of it. Some of the more aggressive breeds require more work to acheive the appropriate pack order. There are less agressive breeds as well, but each individual dog can be dominant or submissive and they need to be treated accordingly.

Try mixing in some research beyond a google search and your own experiences.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » August 16, 2006, 5:17 pm

Unfortunately we didn't have our dog's brain scanned. I'm sure this is routine for all dog owners these days.

Another type of aggression found in canines is
seizure-related aggression. Symptoms of seizure-related
aggression include a pre-aggression mood change that can
last for minutes or hours before a seemingly unprovoked
attack suddenly occurs (Dodman). Dogs with
seizure-related aggression, "...may wake up from a deep
sleep and immediately attack whatever is there..." (Dodman).
In order to positively diagnose a dog with
seizure-related aggression, a test known as the
electroencephalographic (EEG) examination must be used.
This test measures the electrical activity of the brain.
Treatment of this disease usually includes medicating the
dog with an anti-convulsant such as phenobarbital (Dodman).

noel · Post by **noel** » August 16, 2006, 5:27 pm

Winnow wrote:Unfortunately we didn't have our dog's brain scanned. I'm sure this is routine for all dog owners these days.

Another type of aggression found in canines is
seizure-related aggression. Symptoms of seizure-related
aggression include a pre-aggression mood change that can
last for minutes or hours before a seemingly unprovoked
attack suddenly occurs (Dodman). Dogs with
seizure-related aggression, "...may wake up from a deep
sleep and immediately attack whatever is there..." (Dodman).
In order to positively diagnose a dog with
seizure-related aggression, a test known as the
electroencephalographic (EEG) examination must be used.
This test measures the electrical activity of the brain.
Treatment of this disease usually includes medicating the
dog with an anti-convulsant such as phenobarbital (Dodman).

Yeah we had an epileptic dog when I was growing up. He required daily doses of phenobarbital and klonozopin (sp.) in order to keep him normal most of the time. When he was about to go into or when he had come out of a seizure he was loopy and not trustworthy as far as how he would act.

That said when he wasn't in that mode there were no problems with him. To be fair he had a submissive personality and we had a Carin Terrier at the time that was more dominant so I'd assume he felt he was the lowest in our family's pack order. The Carin was of course below my parents and my brother and I.

Oh by the way there's a fairly easy and quasi-reliable way to tell if a dog is submissive or dominant from the time they're a puppy. Turn them over on their backs. If they stay there they're possibly submissive. If they stay there for a few seconds and then roll back over they're likely middle of the road. If they refuse or growl at you, there's a good chance they're dominant.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » August 16, 2006, 8:42 pm

Winnow wrote: Are you serious or making a joke? Man, sad to see someone thinking that their pet actually likes them or wants to please them just for the hell of it.

Did you really just post an (unlinked, of course) article trying to maintain that a dog is smart enough to rationalize that if it pretends to love it's master, then it will be rewarded with more treats and access to outside?

This is why basically everyone thinks you are a FUCKING MORON. However this is brave new boundaries into the depths of your retardation. Pretty soon we'll be so deep that the pressure from your dumb will crush our stupidmarines like eggshells.

noel · Post by **noel** » August 16, 2006, 9:06 pm

By the way, I've read a great deal about dog behavior, though I wouldn't claim to be an expert. I've been to Cesar Milan's seminar and read his book both of which are excellent.

I've spent a great deal of time with a good friend who raises championship agility/show Shelties (Shetland Sheepdogs). Typically he and his wife always have 8-15 dogs in their home and on their property and I've benefitted greatly from their experience in selecting/raising/training dogs (no beatings involved). His wife's sister raises/shows championship agility/show Labrador Retrievers and has been very helpful with any breed specific questions that I have about my dog.

My aunt raises/breeds/shows championship field trial (hunting) and show Chesapeake Bay retrievers and also typically has 5-12 dogs around her house for the last 25 years. I've benefitted a lot from her experience with dogs/selection of show dogs (which has to be done at about 8 weeks of age) /diet/nutrition/training/etc.

I personally am not really into the show dogs because I think you lose something in that level of discipline though my friend and I debate that all the time. He's got more experience with the dogs than I do so I'm inclined to believe him.

Growing up I had a Carin Terrier, Tibetan Terrier and two cats. My parents currently have four dogs (Petite Basset Griffon Vandene, Lhasa Apso, Terrier mutt and a Wheaton Terrier). I currently have a single Yellow Lab, though if I had the yard for it I'd get a Chocolate or Black Lab in a heartbeat.

Noysyrump · Post by **Noysyrump** » August 16, 2006, 9:35 pm

pressure from your dumb will crush our stupidmarines like eggshells.

I am sooooo stealing that!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » August 16, 2006, 10:27 pm

kyoukan wrote:
Winnow wrote: Are you serious or making a joke? Man, sad to see someone thinking that their pet actually likes them or wants to please them just for the hell of it.
Did you really just post an (unlinked, of course) article trying to maintain that a dog is smart enough to rationalize that if it pretends to love it's master, then it will be rewarded with more treats and access to outside?

No, but you were stupid enough to not comprehend my post again and consult your flame guide for a quote!

I see we're back to the "everyone thinks this or that" mode because your arguments suck so bad you break down, gather up your imaginary friends, and must reach for ye'ol flames or pop a vein over an article link. Nice! There's room on this thread for ALL of your friends! EVERYONE knows that! Bring on the absolutes! ALWAYS! EVERYONE! NEVER! lol. The whole multiverse is laughing at your CAPS! Hell, even dogs might get a kick out of your neandertal ways. Maybe you are uniquely qualified to comment on the ways of dogs at that.

Why not butter up your crotch and make your dog useful instead of putting food on his snout for god knows what reason if you're into forcing your dog to do things that disgust him. Thought you were smarter than that. Are your neighbors impressed? "Honey, see how dazzled the Johnsons were next door when I made Rex sit there with food on his nose for five minutes? High five! We rock!"

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » August 17, 2006, 2:16 am

haha, someone's got a hurt pussy.

on a scale of one to ten I give that whiny little tirade about a three, though.

and for the record: yes, nobody here actually likes you.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » August 17, 2006, 5:03 am

kyoukan wrote:haha, someone's got a hurt pussy.

on a scale of one to ten I give that whiny little tirade about a three, though.

and for the record: yes, nobody here actually likes you.

I do... but I think my standards have been skewed by Midnyte.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » August 17, 2006, 11:48 pm

For the record, those two articles you quoted there Winnow are pretty moronic, and I'm willing to bet that it took some serious digging through arguments to the contrary to find such ludicrous crap.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » August 19, 2006, 10:27 pm

If you can start the day without caffeine,
If you can get going without pep pills,
If you can always be cheerful, ignoring aches and pains,
If you can resist complaining and boring people with your troubles,
If you can eat the same food everyday and be grateful for it,
If you can understand when your loved ones are too busy to give you any time,
If you can overlook it when those you love take it out on you when, through no fault of yours, something goes wrong,
If you can take criticism and blame without resentment,
If you can ignore a friend's limited eduction and never correct him,
If you can resist treating a rich friend better than a poor friend,
If you can face the world without lies and deceit,
If you can conquer tension without medical help,
If you can relax without liquor,
If you can sleep without the aid of drugs,
If you can say honestly that deep in your heart you have no prejudice against creed, color, religion or politics,
Then, my friend, you are almost as good as your dog.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » August 20, 2006, 5:31 am

Siji wrote:If you can start the day without caffeine,
If you can get going without pep pills,
If you can always be cheerful, ignoring aches and pains,
If you can resist complaining and boring people with your troubles,
If you can eat the same food everyday and be grateful for it,
If you can understand when your loved ones are too busy to give you any time,
If you can overlook it when those you love take it out on you when, through no fault of yours, something goes wrong,
If you can take criticism and blame without resentment,
If you can ignore a friend's limited eduction and never correct him,
If you can resist treating a rich friend better than a poor friend,
If you can face the world without lies and deceit,
If you can conquer tension without medical help,
If you can relax without liquor,
If you can sleep without the aid of drugs,
If you can say honestly that deep in your heart you have no prejudice against creed, color, religion or politics,
Then, my friend, you are almost as good as your dog.

wtf is that?

Who says a dog wouldnt want alcohol if offered? Maybe a dog would want a sleeping pill. Dogs conquer tension? Last I saw, dogs that freak out over loud noises, still freak out over them and haven't conquered anything. Dogs eat the same food everyday because they are forced to, they would eat ice cream, etc if they could. Dogs aren't always necessarily cheerful and avoiding aches and pains, if hurting, sometimes they'll act strange including growling, biting, etc. Dogs do a lot if this shit because they are forced to and are pets. Take the dog's wild relatives the wolves as an example. They don't want anything to do with you. Dogs were bred to be nice and friendly to humans. That's just swell. Add that to the list. "If you have no idea you were bred over centuries to be docile to humans and have a dumb look on your face when a human is talking to you...

That list of "cuteness" is pretty lame. If you do MOST of those things, you're probably almost as stupid as your dog and might be an excellent candidate to be a slave.

Al · Post by Al » August 20, 2006, 7:15 am

Winnow wrote:neandertal

Spelling and pronunciation are two very different things.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » August 20, 2006, 10:07 am

Al wrote:
Winnow wrote:neandertal
Spelling and pronunciation are two very different things.

I guess it's good that he picked one of a couple correct written versions of the word then!

masteen · Post by **masteen** » August 20, 2006, 2:13 pm

Dogs are pack animals who have been bred for a couple thousand years to accept humans as their alphas. To say they want nothing to do with us is patently false. They do what we want because that how they're wired.

That being said, no two dogs are exactly the same, and there are big differences in temperament between breeds. Weiner dogs are notoriously feisty, but what do you expect in a breed designed to run down rat holes and fucking EXTERMINATE?

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » August 20, 2006, 9:37 pm

If you think a dog's temperment is based solely off it's owner, you have never raised purebreeds. I raised Akitas, we had a couple loose cannon dogs. Like any species, there is nature AND nurture.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » August 25, 2006, 1:52 am

GOING TO THE DOGS

Dog breeds that didn't make it:

Collie + Lhasa Apso
Collapso, a dog that folds up for easy transport

Spitz + Chow Chow
Spitz-Chow, a dog that throws up a lot

Bloodhound + Borzoi
Bloody Bore, a dog that's not much fun

Pointer + Setter
Poinsetter, a traditional Christmas pet

Kerry Blue Terrier + Skye Terrier
Blue Skye, a dog for visionaries

Great Pyrenees + Dachshund
Pyradachs, a puzzling breed

Pekingnese + Lhasa Apso
Peekasso, an abstract dog

Irish Water Spaniel + English Springer Spaniel
Irish Springer, a dog fresh and clean as a
whistle

Labrador Retriever + Curly Coated Retriever
Lab Coat Retriever, the choice of research
scientists

Newfoundland + Basset Hound
Newfound Asset Hound, a dog for financial
advisors

Terrier + Bulldog
Terribull, a dog that makes awful mistakes

Bloodhound + Labrador
Blabador, a dog that barks incessantly

Malamute + Pointer
Moot Point, owned by....oh, well, it doesn't
matter anyway

Collie + Malamute
Commute, a dog that travels to work

Deerhound + Terrier
Derriere, a dog that's true to the end

Ennia · Post by **Ennia** » August 28, 2006, 1:39 pm

now that's entertainment! thanks Boogahz