Top 100 Living Songwriters

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noel
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Top 100 Living Songwriters

Post by noel »

As chosen by paste magazine (which I'd never heard of). I personally don't feel qualified to comment on the sequence or omissions on the list, but I thought it might be interesting for those of you that are more musically inclined. Additionally, reading your comments on the list might give me some insight. :)
100. T Bone Burnett
99. Andre Benjamin & Antwan Patton (Outkast)
98. Jay Farrar (Son Volt, Uncle Tupelo)
97. Josh Ritter
96. Jimmy Cliff
95. Patti Smith
94. Sam Phillips
93. Joseph Arthur
92. Alejandro Escovedo
91. Drive By Truckers (Patterson Hood, Mike Cooley, Jason Isbell)

Read 91-100

90. Nick Cave
89. Victoria Williams
88. Parliament (George Clinton, Bootsy Collins, Bernie Worrell)
87. Lyle Lovett
86. Sam Beam (Iron & Wine)
85. David Bazan (Pedro the Lion, Headphones)
84. John Linnel & John Flansburgh (They Might Be Giants)
83. Fleetwood Mac (Lindsey Buckingham, Stevie Nicks, Christine McVie)
82. John Darnielle (Mountain Goats)
81. Wayne Coyne & Steven Drozd (Flaming Lips)

80. Pink Floyd (Syd Barrett, Roger Waters, David Gilmour, Richard Wright, Nick Mason)
79. Stephen Malkmus (Pavement, Silver Jews)
78. Robert Pollard (Guided By Voices)
77. Bruce Cockburn
76. Will Oldham (aka Bonnie "Prince" Billy, Palace Music, etc.)
75. Ron Sexsmith
74. Linford Detweiler & Karin Bergquist (Over the Rhine)
73. Julie Miller
72. Michael Jackson
71. Vic Chesnutt

70. Alex Chilton (Big Star, The Box Tops)
69. Merle Haggard
68. Allen Tousaint
67. Conor Oberst (Bright Eyes)
66. Charles Thompson (aka Frank Black, Black Francis) (Pixies)
65. Bill Mallonee (Vigilantes of Love)
64. Andy Partridge (XTC, Dukes of Stratosphear)
63. Richard Thompson (Fairport Convention)
62. Sting (The Police)
61. John Hiatt

60. Jimmy Webb
59. Jack White (White Stripes, Raconteurs)
58. Sly Stone (Sly & the Family Stone)
57. Morrissey (The Smiths)
56. James Brown
55. Dolly Parton
54. Aimee Mann
53. James Taylor
52. Paul Westerberg (The Replacements)
51. Dan Penn & Spooner Oldham

50. Public Enemy (Chuck D, Flavor Flav, Hank Shocklee, Eric Sadler, et al)
49. Cat Stevens
48. Gillian Welch & David Rawlings
47. Sufjan Stevens
46. David Byrne (Talking Heads)
45. Jackson Browne
44. Al Green
43. Ryan Adams (Whiskeytown)
42. Loretta Lynn
41. Ray Davies (The Kinks)

40. Burt Bacharach & Hal David 39. Led Zeppelin (Jimmy Page, Robert Plant, John Paul Jones, John Bonham)
38. Kris Kristofferson
37. Smokey Robinson
36. Beck Hansen
35. Steve Earle
34. John Fogerty (Creedence Clearwater Revival)
33. Pete Townshend (The Who)
32. Jerry Leiber & Mike Stoller
31. Carole King

30. John Prine
29. Tom Petty
28. Robbie Robertson (The Band)
27. Radiohead (Thom Yorke, Jonny Greenwood, Colin Greenwood, Ed O'Brien, Phil Selway)
26. R.E.M. (Peter Buck, Bill Berry, Mike Mills, Michael Stipe)
25. Chuck Berry
24. Jeff Tweedy (Wilco, Uncle Tupelo, Golden Smog, Loose Fur, etc.)
23. Elton John & Bernie Taupin
22. Lucinda Williams
21. Lou Reed (Velvet Underground)

20. Van Morrison
19. Patty Griffin
18. U2 (Bono, The Edge, Larry Mullen Jr., Adam Clayton)
17. Holland-Dozier-Holland
16. David Bowie
15. Willie Nelson
14. Stevie Wonder
13. Paul Simon
12. Mick Jagger & Keith Richards (The Rolling Stones)
11. Randy Newman

The Top 10

10. Prince
9. Joni Mitchell
8. Elvis Costello
7. Brian Wilson (The Beach Boys)
6. Leonard Cohen
5. Paul McCartney (The Beatles, Wings)
4. Tom Waits & Kathleen Brennan
3. Bruce Springsteen
2. Neil Young (Buffalo Sprinfield, Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young)
1. Bob Dylan
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Post by Neziroth »

Where are Maynard James Keenan (Tool) and Nick Hexum (311) - maybe the 311 is just personal taste, but MJK from tool has written some absolutely amazing instrumental / vocals for songs and he definitely deserves a spot over Michael fucking Jackson

I declare this list to be faulty.
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Post by noel »

Neziroth wrote:Where are Maynard James Keenan (Tool) and Nick Hexum (311) - maybe the 311 is just personal taste, but MJK from tool has written some absolutely amazing instrumental / vocals for songs and he definitely deserves a spot over Michael fucking Jackson

I declare this list to be faulty.
Judging by the list, I'm going to say that if Keenan and Hexum continue to create they might end up with a spot on a similar list in the future. It appears that an artist's longevity was taken into account.

Personally, and again I don't claim to be knowledgable of music, but I think Elton John should have been ranked higher.
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Post by laneela »

noel wrote: Judging by the list, I'm going to say that if Keenan and Hexum continue to create they might end up with a spot on a similar list in the future. It appears that an artist's longevity was taken into account.
I don't know about that.

24. Jeff Tweedy (Wilco, Uncle Tupelo, Golden Smog, Loose Fur, etc.)
Uncle Tupelo is his earliest band and their first album debuted in 1990, only 3 years before Undertow.

27. Radiohead (Thom Yorke, Jonny Greenwood, Colin Greenwood, Ed O'Brien, Phil Selway)
Pablo Honey was also released in 1993 (release year of Undertow)

I personally think that Maynard is just way (way way way) overrated. I don't see anything special or groundbreaking about his personal style - or Tool's for that matter.

This specific list is as close to 'right on' as I've ever seen one of these lists be. I'm pretty sure Drolgin will be a big fan of it!

edit: I'd like to add that while I don't believe that longetivity was taken into account, it does make sense that people who have been writing songs for decades have had more practice and more opportunities to hone their skills. I also think that that's one of the reasons why I've always been so impressed with a few of the younger artists on this list - they're but itty bitty puppies playing with the big dogs.

P.S.
Neziroth wrote:... MJK from tool has written some absolutely amazing instrumental / vocals for songs and he definitely deserves a spot over Michael fucking Jackson
Blasphemer.
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Post by noel »

I didn't really look at every single person on the list... mostly skimmed it and examined the top ten/looked for people I was familiar with and thought should be there.

I can see how Tool-fan will make an argument for Maynard, but I really don't see how Tool breaks into a list like this. Based on the top ten, I'd say the list is pretty right on. I could see Stevie Wonder and Elton John moving up, but I'd be hard pressed to say who they should replace.

Regarding Michael Jackson. I realize that there's a subset of posters on this board who are too young to have any recollection of MJ before he became a total freak that probably belongs in jail, but he actually was a fantastic artist at one time in music, songwriting, and performing. Just my opinion...
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Re: Top 100 Living Songwriters

Post by Drolgin Steingrinder »

Good and interesting and completely arbitrary list! Here's my take.


People who need to move up (underrated):
98. Jay Farrar (Son Volt, Uncle Tupelo)
95. Patti Smith
90. Nick Cave
80. Pink Floyd (Syd Barrett, Roger Waters, David Gilmour, Richard Wright, Nick Mason)
57. Morrissey (The Smiths)
55. Dolly Parton
54. Aimee Mann
53. James Taylor
40. Burt Bacharach & Hal David
20. Van Morrison

People who need to move down (overrated):
2. Neil Young (just by a bit)
28. Robbie Robertson (The Band)
47. Sufjan Stevens
46. David Byrne (Talking Heads)
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Post by Sylvus »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the people on that list write both lyrics and the music, yes? If that's the case, MJK generally comes in after the music has been composed and then writes his lyrics, so it would make sense for him to be excluded.

I agree with Drolgin on Nick Cave, and can't comment on Morrissey because I've never made it through a whole Smiths/solo song of his without wanting to puncture my own eardrums.

At least that girl from The Cure isn't on the list.
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Post by Aslanna »

Sylvus wrote:I agree with Drolgin on Nick Cave, and can't comment on Morrissey because I've never made it through a whole Smiths/solo song of his without wanting to puncture my own eardrums.

At least that girl from The Cure isn't on the list.
Robert Smith? That's definitely a glaring omission!

I like The Smiths/Morissey. He's a good songwriter. A bit on the whiney side but I have no problem overlooking that.

I personally wouldn't have included Prince in the top 10. I do feel he is an underrated guitarist but not quite sure about actual songs (lyrics) overall being enough to land him where they put him.

But as with all lists it's purely subjective so I'm not arguing over the validity of their rankings.
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Post by Sylvus »

Prince wrote:I knew a girl named nikki
I guess u could say she was a sex fiend
I met her in a hotel lobby
Masturbating with a magazine
She said howd u like 2 waste some time
And I could not resist when I saw little nikki grind

She took me 2 her castle
And I just couldnt believe my eyes
She had so many devices
Everything that money could buy
She said sign your name on the dotted line
The lights went out
And nikki started 2 grind

Nikki

The castle started spinning
Or maybe it was my brain
I cant tell u what she did 2 me
But my body will never be the same
Her lovin will kick your behind
Oh, she'll show u no mercy
But she'll shonuff shonuff show u how 2 grind

Darlin nikki

Woke up the next morning
Nikki wasnt there
I looked all over and all I found
Was a phone number on the stairs
It said thank u 4 a funky time
Call me up whenever u want 2 grind

Oh, nikki, ohhhh

Come back nikki, come back
Your dirty little prince
Wanna grind grind grind grind grind grind grind grind grind

{backwards at the end...}
Hello, how r u? Im fine. cause I know
That the lord is coming soon, coming, coming soon.
He should be #1...
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Post by noel »

I don't really like Prince at all, but apparently he's extremely talented (and fucking batshit insane).
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Post by miir »

36. Beck Hansen
Which one is he?

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Post by Arborealus »

Yeah it's a list of great writers by and large...

Farrar and Tweedy are awesome (Uncle Tupelo together, Son Volt (Farrar), Wilco (Tweedy))...but Noel thinks they're country...;)
Last edited by Arborealus on August 25, 2006, 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Drolgin Steingrinder »

Sylvus wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the people on that list write both lyrics and the music, yes? If that's the case, MJK generally comes in after the music has been composed and then writes his lyrics, so it would make sense for him to be excluded.

I agree with Drolgin on Nick Cave, and can't comment on Morrissey because I've never made it through a whole Smiths/solo song of his without wanting to puncture my own eardrums.

At least that girl from The Cure isn't on the list.
Morrissey is royal pain in the ass, but (and it fucking kills me to admit this) he writes some fucking amazing songs. If you can cut through the personality that he puts forth in his performance of those songs, you'll find some absolute gems. Took me a long while to realize that, and I know a certain miamian who's snickering to herself as she reads this...
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Post by Funkmasterr »

Aren't there a handfull of people on this list that are not "living" ?
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Post by Arborealus »

Funkmasterr wrote:Aren't there a handfull of people on this list that are not "living" ?
None that I saw...

Though the jury is still out on Keith Richards...
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Post by noel »

Syd Barrett (of Pink Floyd) did just pass away about a month ago. No idea when the list was created.
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Post by Funkmasterr »

Syd Barrett for one. I'll have to look through all of them again. For some reason I thought Van Morrison was dead, lol.
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Post by Funkmasterr »

Arborealus wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:Aren't there a handfull of people on this list that are not "living" ?
None that I saw...

Though the jury is still out on Keith Richards...
:lol:
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Post by Arborealus »

Funkmasterr wrote:Syd Barrett for one. I'll have to look through all of them again. For some reason I thought Van Morrison was dead, lol.
Erp yeah Syd is an ex-Floyd, but the rest are alive...and the Syd songs were *meh* IMO...
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Post by Funkmasterr »

True, and I agree about him mostly, but he's dead all the same :)
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Post by Winnow »

Nice lyrics choice for Prince Sylvus : ) I liked Prince's early stuff.

I think the Pink Floyd crew at 80 should definately move up the charts and probably even the Zeppelin writers at 40 are a bit underrated...they are number one for guitar riffs!
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Post by Neziroth »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the people on that list write both lyrics and the music, yes? If that's the case, MJK generally comes in after the music has been composed and then writes his lyrics, so it would make sense for him to be excluded.
I was under the impression that MJK composed the music and wrote the lyrics, I'm not sure where exactly I got that from but I always thought it was so.

Could you link me to that information that says otherwise if you have it handy? I'm not trying to say you're wrong or lying but I'm just curious.

I also agree that Elton John should definitely be moved up.

I don't see Billy Joel at all, but I'm not sure if he writes his own stuff, I assume he does and if that's true he should be in there somewhere.

Also Tom Petty should be higher imo.

P.S. I agree that Michael Jackson did have talent. I don't think it's so much songwriting though, it was his dancing that made him so famous, wasn't it?
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Post by Sartori »

Prince is more of a (amazing) virtuoso musician than a brilliant lyricist IMO. He can play at least half a dozen different instruments competently if not expertly. I think the thing with him is he was somewhat racy for his time which helped make him stand out.

I agree 100% with Noel about Michael Jackson.

I don't think Maynard really belongs on the list, even though I love love love Tool (I will be at the Gorge Sunday!!!!!). He has some great lyrics, but he's also got some that are pretty lame (Aenima and Hooker with a Penis are pretty sub-par IMO for example - even if I do appreciate what he's trying to say with those songs). It's the band as a whole I appreciate more than any one part (possible exception - Danny Carey is octopus man).

I like the Cure quite a bit, but I couldn't bring myself to say Robert Smith belongs on that list. Some great songs, and some good songwriting.

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Post by noel »

Sartori wrote:P.S. top 100 lists are gay
I totally agree with that, but I think that the discussion that comes out of them can be a lot of fun and occasionally informative. I'd add that I think this list is one of the better of the Top XXX Lists...
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Post by Aslanna »

I'm not ashamed to admit I still enjoy listening to Thriller from time to time. Bad wasn't half.. uh.. bad. After that didn't really care for much of his stuff that followed.

I didn't know Prince played much of anything else except maybe keyboards so that's interesting. I've always admired his guitar work though. But yeah after listening to the Kevin Smith story Prince does seem to be a bit on the BSI side.

Nice to see Over The Rhine got some props. I've been listening to them the past 10 years. I know there's only so many spots but now that I think about it I'm a bit disappointed Tori Amos (speaking of slightly BSI) didn't make it. As well as a few others. But looking at it there's not really anyone on there that I don't think belongs. It looks better than anything Rolling Stone would put out.
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Post by Sartori »

noel wrote:I totally agree with that, but I think that the discussion that comes out of them can be a lot of fun and occasionally informative. I'd add that I think this list is one of the better of the Top XXX Lists...
Of course :P

My dad thinks they actually hold merit which really bugs me. I guess it gives us something else to argue about.
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Post by Spang »

P.S. I agree that Michael Jackson did have talent. I don't think it's so much songwriting though, it was his dancing that made him so famous, wasn't it?
his music made him famous. dancing isn't enough. just ask Hammer.

also, i'm thinking neil diamond should be on that list somewhere unless he is and i missed it. i think someone mentioned Billy Joel already and i agree, he should be up there too.

and Pink Floyd should easily move up that list, maybe even into the top 20.
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Post by Neziroth »

I guess I just have a sort of secret deep dark hatred for Michael Jackson because I tend to think that without him we wouldn't have 100 radio stations and four TV channels full of shit like N'Sync and Brittney Spears.

Stupid "King of Pop" or whatever they call him.
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Post by Nick »

Aenima has amazing lyrics :shock:

Top 100 lists are futile really :x
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Post by laneela »

Drolgin Steingrinder wrote: Morrissey is royal pain in the ass, but (and it fucking kills me to admit this) he writes some fucking amazing songs. If you can cut through the personality that he puts forth in his performance of those songs, you'll find some absolute gems. Took me a long while to realize that, and I know a certain miamian who's snickering to herself as she reads this...

You looooooooooooove Morrissey. You're like a few weeks from calling him Moz.
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Post by Momopi »

The Smiths are absolutly incredible. The end.
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Post by Sylvus »

Neziroth wrote:I was under the impression that MJK composed the music and wrote the lyrics, I'm not sure where exactly I got that from but I always thought it was so.

Could you link me to that information that says otherwise if you have it handy? I'm not trying to say you're wrong or lying but I'm just curious.
I can't recall where I read those words specifically, as I've read a million articles about Tool, but I know it's true. In every article that they talk about the creative process, the describe how they're more of a jam band when writing, each person will bring in a different riff or whatever and let another play it on a different instrument and then they go forward with it and let it evolve.

I'm also certain that I read that during either 10,000 Days or Lateralus, they already had a lot of the music ready before MJK even came in (he was busy touring with APC or something).

Check the FAQ or the articles section of toolshed.down.net, that's probably where I saw it.
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Post by masteen »

Led Zepplin is way too fucking low. They have so many shitty peoeple above them, it disgusts me. Tom Petty > Led Zepplin... WTF?

p.s. McCartney should lose like 50 spots because of wings. That shit is just painful to listen to, even moreso when you think of the truly amazing stuff he wrote with Lennon.
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Post by Aslanna »

It's just a list.. Settle.

Could always make your own.
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Post by Sueven »

didn't BB King write his own songs?
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Post by Truant »

What a fantastic list. Thanks for finding/posting it.

A few comments to the suggested ommissions/alterations.

Billy Joel. I will admit straight away that this man has written some absolutely fucking brilliant songs. But I would also say for every fantastic song he wrote (mostly early, but not all) there are 2 songs that are pretty majorly blah. I think this list was focusing on consistently. Otherwise we'd see more one hit wonders up there.

Tool. I know you guys have raging hard cocks for tool and anyone who doesn't is a terrorist...but imo they aren't really doing anything that is all that new or revolutionary. They just happened to get popular playing a brand of heavy prog rock at a time when everyone in the mainstream had completely forgotten what prog rock was. I'm not saying they aren't good, and I'm not saying MJK doesn't have an insane set of pipes. I know you guys are fans and all, but try to put things in perspective.

Prince. Sartori was right...he does play a fuckton of instruments...and play them well I might add. He has numerous albums where he played every instrument on the album. He also is known for writing his own orchestrations and horn arrangements (which get quite intricate) which is an area that most artists/bands will hire someone to do for them.

Michael Jackson. While many of his early hits were completely written by Quincy Jones (genius)...he did develop his writing as he grew and ended up a very talented writer.

Suev, as far as BB King. He wrote most of his songs, with some old blues standards mixed in. And while I absolutely love BB, and the blues. I don't think writing in a 12 bar blues form is really going to do much for a songwriting list. He's an absolutely brilliant performer...but there's not much complicated about his songs from a writing standpoint (we're not talking about guitar solos unfortunately).

I really enjoyed the list though, and everyone's take on it :)
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Drinsic Darkwood
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Post by Drinsic Darkwood »

Pink Floyd is fucking 80? Uh... No. That's just wrong.

Led Zeppelin is 39? They should be in the top 10.

I just don't see how Radiohead can be above Led Zeppelin and ranked over 50 places above Floyd. Don't get me wrong - I love Radiohead. I just don't see how that works. It just doesn't. That's why I tend to hate lists like these. Of course you can't appeal to everyone, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but some opinions just suck colossal amounts of cock.
Truant wrote:Tool. I know you guys have raging hard cocks for tool and anyone who doesn't is a terrorist...but imo they aren't really doing anything that is all that new or revolutionary. They just happened to get popular playing a brand of heavy prog rock at a time when everyone in the mainstream had completely forgotten what prog rock was. I'm not saying they aren't good, and I'm not saying MJK doesn't have an insane set of pipes. I know you guys are fans and all, but try to put things in perspective.
Assuming Tool isn't excluded from the list based on their writing methods, I understand what you're saying. I enjoy Tool a lot, but probably wouldn't consider myself as much of a fan as say, Sylvus or Nick. That said, I still think they're an excellent band, and it's nice to hear something played on the local rock station that isn't Three Doors Down or dogshit like Nickelback. You say to put things in perspective - I'll agree the majority of these songwriters are superior to Tool. Then I see Jack White ranked at 59 while Tool is nowhere to be seen. Putting things perfectly into perspective, whether or not you like or hate one or both, it's just fucked.

Shit, Jack White is ranked higher than Floyd? These things are why I try to ignore such lists but it still irritates the hell out of me. This reminds of Rolling Stone's top 100 guitarists of all time not even including John Petrucci.
Do unto others what has been done to you.
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Xzion
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Post by Xzion »

not at all too pleased with the list, but bob dyllan at number 1 is well deserved
-xzionis human mage on mannoroth
-zeltharath tauren shaman on wildhammer
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