A Clockwork Orange

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

I finally sat down and watched this thing. It was slightly more watchable than that piece of shit Kubrick did with Tom Cruise. Interesting concept on criminality, but quite a bore. Just like all other Kubrick movies.

[kyoukan]

Stick to Dukes of Hazzard and Stealth, you cornpone fucking cracker, and leave actual meaningful films to intelligent people who can appreciate them.

[Sylvus]

but quite a bore. Just like all other Kubrick movies.

wow, that's an opinion i've never heard expressed before. will you never run out of surprises?

[Zaelath]

Seriously, why the fuck would you even bother? It's an old film, based on an even older book, there's no cheerleaders being raped or muslims being executed in inventive ways, clearly there's nothing here for you.

[Sionistic]

The point of the whole movie is to ask a question. Can someone be completely and undeniably good or evil? (A clockwork orange = something completely good or evil)However a lot of the scenes that really drive the point home were cut due to time. The build up to the 2 chicks in the bed, the store clerk, the prison cell. Unfortunatly the very last chapter of the book was left out of the movie. I forget if Kubrick wanted to leave it out or was told to leave it out. All I know is that the reason it was taken out was because it was felt that the American audience wouldnt like it. While it does make the movie more enjoyable, it really does make the movie feel incomplete.

[Zaelath]

The point of the whole movie is to ask a question. Can someone be completely and undeniably good or evil? (A clockwork orange = something completely good or evil)However a lot of the scenes that really drive the point home were cut due to time. The build up to the 2 chicks in the bed, the store clerk, the prison cell. Unfortunatly the very last chapter of the book was left out of the movie. I forget if Kubrick wanted to leave it out or was told to leave it out. All I know is that the reason it was taken out was because it was felt that the American audience wouldnt like it. While it does make the movie more enjoyable, it really does make the movie feel incomplete.

The missing chapter completely changes the tone too, quite disappointing they left it out.

[Sylvus]

I've never read the book, which way did the missing final chapter leave the story?

[Hoarmurath]

I've never read the book, which way did the missing final chapter leave the story?

Apparently, the movie followed the U.S. version of the book, which was also missing the last (21st) chapter.

The actual final chapter begins identically to the first — Alex has formed a new gang and reverted to his previous criminality. On this particular night, however, he decides not to join them and goes for a walk on his own instead. He confesses that lately he has been finding the whole lifestyle tiresome, and has even (of all things) begun experiencing latent parenting urges. In a café, he bumps into the last of his old gang members, Pete. To Alex's astonishment, Pete is now married and has become a respectable member of society. After conversing with Pete and his wife, Alex has an epiphany, renouncing violence on the one hand, but on the other concluding that his behaviour was an unavoidable part of youth, and that if he had a son, he would not be able to stop him from doing what he himself did.

[Winnow]

A Clockwork Orange, while disturbing to me as a kid when I first saw it (not in the theater, I'm not that old!), goes into my top ten most memorable movies.

I can easily see the current average movie goer not liking it as they are all about the flash and bang and less about using their minds to work things out for themselves.

[Aslanna]

I've never read the book, which way did the missing final chapter leave the story?

Apparently, the movie followed the U.S. version of the book, which was also missing the last (21st) chapter.

The actual final chapter begins identically to the first — Alex has formed a new gang and reverted to his previous criminality. On this particular night, however, he decides not to join them and goes for a walk on his own instead. He confesses that lately he has been finding the whole lifestyle tiresome, and has even (of all things) begun experiencing latent parenting urges. In a café, he bumps into the last of his old gang members, Pete. To Alex's astonishment, Pete is now married and has become a respectable member of society. After conversing with Pete and his wife, Alex has an epiphany, renouncing violence on the one hand, but on the other concluding that his behaviour was an unavoidable part of youth, and that if he had a son, he would not be able to stop him from doing what he himself did.

I personally don't like that ending. Rapes and beatings don't just become 'boring'. Being a psychotic criminal isn't just a part of being young. Sure, drinking, staying out late, maybe some shoplifting or something but not sexual, violent crimes. While the movie makes you begin to feel sympathy for Alex and almost makes you see him as the victim, he's anything but.

And not liking the movie doesn't mean you don't know anything about cinematic adventures.

I don't know. But they've really hyped "A Clockwork Orange" for more than it's worth, and a lot of people will go if only out of curiosity. Too bad. In addition to the things I've mentioned above -- things I really got mad about -- "A Clockwork Orange" commits another, perhaps even more unforgivable, artistic sin. It is just plain talky and boring. You know there's something wrong with a movie when the last third feels like the last half.

Now you may not agree with him but I don't really think you can say he's an unintelligent dolt who knows nothing about movies.

[Winnow]

I don't know. But they've really hyped "A Clockwork Orange" for more than it's worth, and a lot of people will go if only out of curiosity. Too bad. In addition to the things I've mentioned above -- things I really got mad about -- "A Clockwork Orange" commits another, perhaps even more unforgivable, artistic sin. It is just plain talky and boring. You know there's something wrong with a movie when the last third feels like the last half.

Now you may not agree with him but I don't really think you can say he's an unintelligent dolt who knows nothing about movies.

Critic opinions can vary wildly on a movie. Ebert happened to be one of the lowest ratings but the late Siskel, (Eberts review partner) gave it a top rating.

The less mainstream a movie, the more varied the opinions. I suppose movies should be rated on two levels. One, how entertaining the movie is and two, if anything of value is gained from the movie that might stimulate thought.

http://www.metacritic.com/video/titles/clockworkorange/

[Drinsic Darkwood]

The final chapter was originally left out because he read the American-published version. However, (supposedly) when he did find out about the final chapter, he still decided to omit it because he felt it simply did not fit the tone of the movie/book. Personally, I prefer the ending Kubrick stuck with by far.

but quite a bore. Just like all other Kubrick movies.

What the holy fuck is wrong with you?

[Sylvus]

And not liking the movie doesn't mean you don't know anything about cinematic adventures.

Sure, if you're talking about A Clockwork Orange specifically.

But to call the writer and/or director of Dr. Strangelove, Full Metal Jacket, 2001: A Space Odyssey, A Clockwork Orange, Spartacus, Lolita, The Shining and others I haven't seen "boring" tends to make me think that one doesn't know anything about film.

[Bubba Grizz]

I can't listen to, "I'm Singing in the Rain" anymore without wanting to kick someone in the gut a few times.

[Sheryl]

kubrick has made some really great stuff imo.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

but quite a bore. Just like all other Kubrick movies.

What the holy fuck is wrong with you?

I'm sorry. I can't like everything. I don't find his stuff captivating at all. And just because some people like it, it doesn't mean those who don't are Rambo watchers. Blow'em up movies aren't my style.

Another recent watch of mine which I thought was fucking amazing was Capote. Absolutely awesome movie. What a story and tremendous acting.

[Keverian FireCry]

Midnyte, you can't be serious. All of Kubrick's movies are boring, yet you love every Kevin Costner movie, including the most boring peice of shit ever, The Postman.

For reference here are Mid's quotes about The Postman and Costner.

Curious to see if anyone else puts this movie in their top ten best. I give this movie a 10/10 and have watched it about a dozens times and love it each damn time.

Okay. Well. I am definitely alone on this one. I love this movie.

I can't believe more aren't moved by this movie like I am. /sigh

Then again, I love Costner and The Bodyguard, Waterworld, Dances with Wolves, etc.

There MUST be a special place in hell for people with such fucking horrid taste in film. Then again, if you've watched The Postman dozens of times, you've already been there.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Hehe. To each his own.

The Postman brings out emotion in me, inspires me. I've always loved a movie when it made me feel a certain way. I've always thought of a good movie by how I felt after watching it and how pissed I was that it was over so quickly.

[Aslanna]

Now you may not agree with him but I don't really think you can say he's an unintelligent dolt who knows nothing about movies.

Critic opinions can vary wildly on a movie. Ebert happened to be one of the lowest ratings but the late Siskel, (Eberts review partner) gave it a top rating.

The less mainstream a movie, the more varied the opinions. I suppose movies should be rated on two levels. One, how entertaining the movie is and two, if anything of value is gained from the movie that might stimulate thought.

http://www.metacritic.com/video/titles/clockworkorange/

The main point I was making was that people who know a lot about movies can still have a bad opinion about them. It's not really about the actual review he wrote.

But to call the writer and/or director of Dr. Strangelove, Full Metal Jacket, 2001: A Space Odyssey, A Clockwork Orange, Spartacus, Lolita, The Shining and others I haven't seen "boring" tends to make me think that one doesn't know anything about film.

Put in that context and I can see your point. I was taking it as reference to that film specifically. And, as above, I'm not saying Midnyte does actually know anything about film. My point was from a different angle.

[Bubba Grizz]

I actually almost bought the Postman over the weekend. I saw it on the discount rack for like $6 but I got distracted and bought something else. I like the Costner movies (cept for JFK). It is a type of sci fi/fantasy that doesn't glorify your typical movie in the genre. It is more realistic or potentially realistic if you know what I mean. Not oscar winning material to be sure but still entertaining for myself.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

The Shining was an excellent story by Stephen King, which was actually more well done in 1997 when King also wrote the Screnplay.

But, Full Metal Jacket was good. Errm wait, only half of it was good. The first half was phenomenal. The second half was Kubrick. Dull as all hell. Once the Drill Sgt. gets offed, it turns to a sleeper.

[Chmee]

The point of the whole movie is to ask a question. Can someone be completely and undeniably good or evil? (A clockwork orange = something completely good or evil)However a lot of the scenes that really drive the point home were cut due to time. The build up to the 2 chicks in the bed, the store clerk, the prison cell. Unfortunatly the very last chapter of the book was left out of the movie. I forget if Kubrick wanted to leave it out or was told to leave it out. All I know is that the reason it was taken out was because it was felt that the American audience wouldnt like it. While it does make the movie more enjoyable, it really does make the movie feel incomplete.

I always thought it was more about if good or evil are relevant without the existance of free will.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

The point of the whole movie is to ask a question. Can someone be completely and undeniably good or evil? (A clockwork orange = something completely good or evil)However a lot of the scenes that really drive the point home were cut due to time. The build up to the 2 chicks in the bed, the store clerk, the prison cell. Unfortunatly the very last chapter of the book was left out of the movie. I forget if Kubrick wanted to leave it out or was told to leave it out. All I know is that the reason it was taken out was because it was felt that the American audience wouldnt like it. While it does make the movie more enjoyable, it really does make the movie feel incomplete.

I always thought it was more about if good or evil are relevant without the existance of free will.

Agreed. Then again it probably had many points. But, that's what I took from it. I preferred that message delivered by Jim Carrey in Bruce Almighty though. Much more entertaining

[Drinsic Darkwood]

Do you consider Bruce Almighty to be a superior movie to A Clockwork Orange?

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Do you consider Bruce Almighty to be a superior movie to A Clockwork Orange?

Depends. Entertainment value would be greater with Bruce Almighty. As far as a movie of art and meaning it would be A Clockwork Orange.

[kyoukan]

Jesus, what did mankind did to deserve you? Was it world war 2? Is God punishing humans?

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Jesus, what did mankind did to deserve you? Was it world war 2? Is God punishing humans?

Religious wacko.

[masteen]

The Shining was an excellent story by Stephen King, which was actually more well done in 1997 when King also wrote the Screnplay.

But, Full Metal Jacket was good. Errm wait, only half of it was good. The first half was phenomenal. The second half was Kubrick. Dull as all hell. Once the Drill Sgt. gets offed, it turns to a sleeper.

Are you fucking joking? Vietnam the Movie? No more boom-boom for this baby-san? I wanted to be the first kid on my block to get a confirmed kill? Animal Fucking Mother?

Taking the first half without the second half removes the entire context of the film. Without Vietnam, there would have been no need for Gunny Hartman.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

The Shining was an excellent story by Stephen King, which was actually more well done in 1997 when King also wrote the Screnplay.

But, Full Metal Jacket was good. Errm wait, only half of it was good. The first half was phenomenal. The second half was Kubrick. Dull as all hell. Once the Drill Sgt. gets offed, it turns to a sleeper.

Are you fucking joking? Vietnam the Movie? No more boom-boom for this baby-san? I wanted to be the first kid on my block to get a confirmed kill? Animal Fucking Mother?

Taking the first half without the second half removes the entire context of the film. Without Vietnam, there would have been no need for Gunny Hartman.

Cool little violent slogans aren't my thing. I'm sorry. I guess I'm just not keen to artist aspects of cinema like you are.

[Winnow]

I always thought it was more about if good or evil are relevant without the existance of free will.

Agreed. Then again it probably had many points. But, that's what I took from it. I preferred that message delivered by Jim Carrey in Bruce Almighty though. Much more entertaining

I'd give $1.00 to go back in time and ask what you really thought the movie was about before Chmee said anything.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

I always thought it was more about if good or evil are relevant without the existance of free will.

Agreed. Then again it probably had many points. But, that's what I took from it. I preferred that message delivered by Jim Carrey in Bruce Almighty though. Much more entertaining

I'd give $1.00 to go back in time and ask what you really thought the movie was about before Chmee said anything.

No need. You forget, I'm honest. I would never in a million years put into words what I felt like Chmee did. My ability to write in words what I'm thinking in my head has always been awful. That's why you'll often see me quote someone and just type "Well said".

If guilt gets the best of you, you can PM me for my paypal address.

[Winnow]

Then that particular reply called for a "well said" and not an "agreed" considering the context in which Chmee's comment was made.

My dollar is going toward a Vince Young jersey fund for a needy Muslim fan.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Then that particular reply called for a "well said" and not an "agreed" considering the context in which Chmee's comment was made.

My dollar is going toward a Vince Young jersey fund for a needy Muslim fan.

Fair nuff.

[Nick]

Hey guyz Staanley Kuberikk sukz amirite?

[Kwonryu DragonFist]

Staneley Kuberix rocks!

[Jice Virago]

A Clockwork Orange is one of the best films ever made. The fact that we are discussing such an old film that is not some schlocky sci-fi/adventure movie is testament to its status, alone. But its not for everyone. Its solid brain food from start to finnish and if you are the kind of person who needs everything spoonfed to you (see, people who liked X-men movies as an example) you are simply not going to like it. Its about the nature of good and evil, which is something everyone has to work out on a personal level, but does not nessecarily have the intellectual capacity to know how to.

And for the record, I prefer the american version of the book slightly, because it makes more sense to have a sociopath remain how he is, but the original book ending does read well.

[kyoukan]

anthony burgess wanted to change the ending for the us release because he decided he didn't like it.

[vn_Tanc]

Hi! I've tried to get through both the book and the film and failed at both.

I just couldn't get past the dated take on the future and the silly slang so obviously the rest of the message was lost on me.

Edit: I Full Metal Jacket. Not only that but the first half of the film was shot in the village where i grew up in Cambridgeshire, England. You'll notice when they're marching around that the road markings are UK not US. However that army base (currently Queen's Division Infantry) was an airfield for B17s during WW2, hence the huge hangars in the background of some shots. My my how interesting.

[miir]

if you are the kind of person who needs everything spoonfed to you (see, people who liked X-men movies as an example) you are simply not going to like it.

It's possible for people to like different types of movies. I liked the XMen movies and I liked Clockwork Orange.


However, I did not like The Postman.

[Siji]

I just couldn't get past the dated take on the future and the silly slang so obviously the rest of the message was lost on me.

That's how I was with Apocalypse Now. I'm sure it was an amazing movie at the time, and even now the acting is good.. but I can't sit through it these days.

[Drinsic Darkwood]

Apocalypse Now has a dated take on the future and a mix of British and Slavic slang? That's really neat, I need to go watch my dvd again and try to pick up on that.

[Sionistic]

The problem with reading clockwork orange is that first off, it was written in 1965 england. Second, not only do you have that slang from back then, but the narrator, the main character, also invented his own slang to go along with it. It took me chapters to realize what he meant by horrorshow.