Oxymoron Alert - French Leadership

What do you think about the world?
User avatar
Metanis
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1417
Joined: July 5, 2002, 4:54 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Oxymoron Alert - French Leadership

Post by Metanis »

Frenchies seem to be experts at trivializing themselves in world opinion.
Where Did the French Go?
So far, look for them on the sidelines.

Friday, August 18, 2006; A20

THROUGHOUT this summer's crisis in relations between Israel and Lebanon, France has been liberal with its advice and admonitions, as befits the major power it claims to be. Now that the time has arrived to assume the responsibility of a major power, however, France appears suddenly bashful. The consequence for the peace deal it helped broker could be calamitous.

During the fighting that began when Hezbollah crossed into Israel to kidnap two soldiers and kill several others, France pressed for Israel to cease its military actions. At one point, it supported Arab demands that Israel withdraw before an international force was in place. Just this week, France's foreign minister was telling Israel to end its blockade of Lebanese ports and airports.

Yet, as it questioned Israel's methods, France claimed to be supporting many of its goals. The blockade was intended to prevent Iranian and Syrian arms shipments to Hezbollah, and France said it supported an end to the illicit flow of arms. Israel's incursion was meant to disarm or weaken Hezbollah's militia, and France said it, too, wanted a Lebanon with only one army -- the national armed forces.

How to square this circle? According to a U.N. Security Council resolution crafted by France and the United States and adopted unanimously last Friday, the Lebanese armed forces would become the only armed force in Lebanon. They would deploy to the south, where Hezbollah had enjoyed a monopoly of military power. They would bar all unauthorized arms shipments into the country. Because they are weak and poorly trained, they would be backed by a U.N. force with as many as 15,000 troops. And, U.N. officials were led to believe, France would take a major role in leading and supplying troops to this international force, which would in turn encourage other nations to participate. Asked on the day the resolution was adopted about the deployment of the U.N. force, France's U.N. ambassador said, "I think it can be very swift."

Well, not so swift, it turns out, and possibly not so robust. Now that Israel is withdrawing and Hezbollah fighters are emerging with a swagger, French President Jacques Chirac says he is ready to send only an engineering company of 200 soldiers to join 200 serving in the current, and impotent, U.N. force in Lebanon. The French general who had been commanding that force will remain until his tour expires in February; this is apparently as much as the French had in mind when they talked about "leading" the force.

French officials said last night that they have not ruled out a larger contribution. It all depends on the rules of engagement, other nations' contributions and other matters under delicate discussion in New York. Let's hope that Mr. Chirac's 200 troops are not in fact the last word. Other nations will be less likely to contribute if France remains on the sidelines, and without a substantial force the peace settlement -- fragile to begin with -- is far less likely to endure. That, in turn, would seem to offer precisely the wrong lesson for a European nation eager to provide international leadership and to prove that diplomacy and peacekeeping can accomplish more than war.
Typical French behavior! What a bunch of losers. (VV loonie liberals will feel right at home! You know who you are!)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 41_pf.html
User avatar
Animalor
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 5902
Joined: July 8, 2002, 12:03 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Anirask
PSN ID: Anirask
Location: Canada

Post by Animalor »

French bashing and armchair general all in one post.

You can now go to church with an easy conscience knowing what a great conservative you are.
Lynks
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 2774
Joined: September 30, 2002, 6:58 pm
XBL Gamertag: launchpad1979
Location: Sudbury, Ontario

Post by Lynks »

I think he skipped the part in church where they tell people not to judge others.
User avatar
Metanis
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1417
Joined: July 5, 2002, 4:54 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Post by Metanis »

Lynks wrote:I think he skipped the part in church where they tell people not to judge others.
So you think you're a biblical scholar now?

You might try the dictionary first and review the difference between "judge" and "judgemental". While you're in the dictionary you might also study on "context".

Then come back around and I'll teach you about the Christian practice of discernment.
User avatar
kyoukan
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 8548
Joined: July 5, 2002, 3:33 am
Location: Vancouver

Post by kyoukan »

You had another great opportunity to just post that article like you had written it. You realize that if anyone ever took you seriously before (unlikely), they won't now? Nobody knows what you've written yourself and what you're just cutting and pasting from people with a stronger grasp of politics and communication skills than you.

Although I'm sure "loonie liberals" can be credited to yourself.
Lynks
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 2774
Joined: September 30, 2002, 6:58 pm
XBL Gamertag: launchpad1979
Location: Sudbury, Ontario

Post by Lynks »

Metanis wrote:
Lynks wrote:I think he skipped the part in church where they tell people not to judge others.
So you think you're a biblical scholar now?
I think I know a lot more than you when it comes to the Bible.
User avatar
Metanis
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1417
Joined: July 5, 2002, 4:54 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Post by Metanis »

It appears that other people also see the irony here.
With doublespeaking France, honor gets lost in translation
By Jules Crittenden
Boston Herald City Editor

Sunday, August 20, 2006

French is the traditional language of diplomacy. Diplomacy is the art of saying one thing while doing another.

In recent weeks, France stepped forward to act as a broker of peace in Lebanon. “Act” is the key verb in that last sentence, as it now would seem that the only other verifiable part of the sentence is “in recent weeks.”

To correctly parse that sentence, one must understand that when France suggested it wanted to broker peace in Lebanon, it did not necessarily mean “broker” or “peace” or “Lebanon” in the way we might understand those words. The same is true when France further suggested it wanted to “lead” a “strong” “multinational” “force” there.

I don’t speak French, so I have no idea what the actual French words are for those concepts or what possible nuances there may be. I’ve been relying on news reports in English, which now inform me that the French do not intend to send any significant number of troops to what is supposed to be a force of 15,000 in Lebanon, like everyone thought they said they would.

The heady moment of peace brokering having passed, uponsober reflection, the French now say they already have a general and some staff in south Lebanon ordering about UNIFIL, the U.N. monitoring entity there. That’s plenty of leadership, the French suggested: All France needs to contribute now is another 200 combat engineers.

In tactical terms, when it comes to securing a Middle East conflict zone, that can be referred to as “squat.”

The United Nations, which is trying to salvage what is left of its own self-respect after the utter failure of UNIFIL in Lebanon, is now publicly begging European nations to contribute troops.

To find the last plain-speaking French leader, it is necessary to go back to Napoleon Bonaparte. He said he was going to take over Europe, and proceeded to do so. No, scratch that. He said he was going to bring French liberty and equality to Europe, then crowned himself emperor. Subsequent French history offers us a sordid string of third world colonizations followed by bloody wars to hang on long after the time to relinquish colonies had passed, setting the stage for corrupt government and prolonged conflict in places like Vietnam.

More recently, we’ve seen the naked hypocrisy of Dominic de Villepin in the United Nations, braying about his humanitarian concerns for the Iraqi people, while trying to ensure mass murderer Saddam Hussein remained in power to honor his French contracts.

The shamelessness of France knows no bounds. They have a domestic Arabic population and business interests in the Mideast to satisfy. They desperately want to be taken seriously as a major power. So they sat down with the United States and hammered out a peace plan. Then, before the ink was dry, they shrugged a Gallic shrug.

I wish I could be charitable here and find some good excuses for the French. Ernest Hemingway, who had a soft spot for them, used to like to say, “Always do sober what you said you’d do drunk.” But Hemingway, unlike the French, had a sense of honor.

French was once the lingua franca, back when men wore powdered wigs and France was a power to be reckoned with. None of those things are true now. French has been replaced by English as the language of foreign policy, business, tourism, the Internet and just about everything else.

If we, those of us who enjoy conducting business in English rather than say, Chinese or Arabic, want it to stay that way, I’d suggest step one is that we should continue to state clearly our intentions and do what we say we aregoing to do. Even when the world doesn’t necessarily like what we are saying.

That is our French lesson for the day.
http://news.bostonherald.com/columnists ... ormat=text
User avatar
Metanis
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1417
Joined: July 5, 2002, 4:54 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Post by Metanis »

Lynks wrote:I think I know a lot more than you when it comes to the Bible.
Wow, you think do you?

Well, that's a start.

Maybe you should rest now before you get tired.
User avatar
Metanis
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1417
Joined: July 5, 2002, 4:54 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Post by Metanis »

kyoukan wrote:You had another great opportunity to just post that article like you had written it. You realize that if anyone ever took you seriously before (unlikely), they won't now? Nobody knows what you've written yourself and what you're just cutting and pasting from people with a stronger grasp of politics and communication skills than you.

Although I'm sure "loonie liberals" can be credited to yourself.
Nice try kiddo.

Attention VV - What you see here is the quintessential liberal smear tactic. You can almost envision Kooky dressed in her little chimp outfit throwing her own shit against the wall just to see what sticks.

I would ask Kooky, where's the beef?

You liberals are really scary however. You're just like that moronic judge in Detroit. You make an assertion and then suppose it's proof. An assertion is merely a starting point. An adult supports the assertion with analysis and proof and then makes conclusions based on the facts presented and the strength of the argument.

Perhaps you should take your toys and go home little girl?
User avatar
Kaldaur
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1850
Joined: July 25, 2002, 2:26 am
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Kaldaur
Location: Illinois

Post by Kaldaur »

What the hell is wrong with you?

Really?
User avatar
Animalor
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 5902
Joined: July 8, 2002, 12:03 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Anirask
PSN ID: Anirask
Location: Canada

Post by Animalor »

You may wannt to review what "Strong Multinational peacekeeping Force" actually means in non-Bush terms.

It's where you have many countries supply troops to stabilize a region.

This is different than the Coalition of the Willing clusterfuck where one country foots most of the troops in an occupationary war of a sovereign nation.
Lynks
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 2774
Joined: September 30, 2002, 6:58 pm
XBL Gamertag: launchpad1979
Location: Sudbury, Ontario

Post by Lynks »

Metanis wrote:Wow, you think do you?

Well, that's a start.

Maybe you should rest now before you get tired.
Fine, I know I do.

*patiently awaits for you to come up with something as equally lame as what you just posted*
User avatar
Metanis
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1417
Joined: July 5, 2002, 4:54 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Post by Metanis »

Animalor wrote:You may wannt to review what "Strong Multinational peacekeeping Force" actually means in non-Bush terms.

It's where you have many countries supply troops to stabilize a region.

This is different than the Coalition of the Willing clusterfuck where one country foots most of the troops in an occupationary war of a sovereign nation.
You really don't have a clue do you?

This has absolutely nothing to do with Bush.

The Frogs said one thing 2 weeks ago when they helped get support for the UN resolution which THEY helped write! Now the gutless wonders are changing their tune.

Is that really so hard to understand?

And who do you suppose is left holding the bag?
User avatar
Animalor
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 5902
Joined: July 8, 2002, 12:03 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Anirask
PSN ID: Anirask
Location: Canada

Post by Animalor »

Did you even read the post? I mentionned Bush as a way of not doing things and an example. In no way did I implicate him in any of this.

I doubt that the US will contribute very heavily to this force either since your boys are rather busy south of the region anyways.
User avatar
Metanis
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1417
Joined: July 5, 2002, 4:54 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Post by Metanis »

Animalor wrote:Did you even read the post? I mentionned Bush as a way of not doing things and an example. In no way did I implicate him in any of this.

I doubt that the US will contribute very heavily to this force either since your boys are rather busy south of the region anyways.
You need to go back to basic elementary school. Or are you too dense even for basic education?

My comments had nothing to do with the composition of the force. I could give a rats ass if 5 or 50 countries participate.

The success of the UN resolution was predicated on getting a strong "respected" force in place extremely quickly so that Hezbullies doesn't move back into the south of Lebanon.

This is what the French used to rally the UN Security Council into buying the plan.

So now the dipshit French have simply walked away from the implicit committment they made and sure as shit, the Hezbullies are moving back into southern Lebanon and getting fresh arms supplies.

This all leads to the fact that within a few short months this war will resume and will be much bloodier than the last one. This French doublecross is one of the ugliest things I've ever seen in world affairs.

Do you maybe have any sort of clue now? No, I'm sure you don't. Typical.
User avatar
Animalor
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 5902
Joined: July 8, 2002, 12:03 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Anirask
PSN ID: Anirask
Location: Canada

Post by Animalor »

Metanis wrote: The success of the UN resolution was predicated on getting a strong "respected" force in place extremely quickly so that Hezbullies doesn't move back into the south of Lebanon.

This is what the French used to rally the UN Security Council into buying the plan.

So now the dipshit French have simply walked away from the implicit committment they made and sure as shit, the Hezbullies are moving back into southern Lebanon and getting fresh arms supplies.

All we're really seeing here is more political maneuvering. 1701
This all leads to the fact that within a few short months this war will resume and will be much bloodier than the last one. This French doublecross is one of the ugliest things I've ever seen in world affairs.
You ever stop to think for a moment that there might be a reason that they may not want to send too many troops in the region or on a UN peacekeeping force?

Here's a bit of a read. Don't worry if this type of test looks foreign, it's what's called non-biased reporting.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... al/Europe/

I won't even bother flaming you for the opening and closing line of that. I'll let you sort out your assholish tendencies with your deity of choice.
vn_Tanc
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 2398
Joined: July 12, 2002, 12:32 pm
Location: UK

Post by vn_Tanc »

Hezbullies
That's a fucking great word. Right up there with "demonrats".
A man with a fork
In a world of soup
Image
User avatar
Vaemas
Almost 1337
Almost 1337
Posts: 996
Joined: July 5, 2002, 6:23 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: BeaverButter
Location: High Ministry of Accountancy

Post by Vaemas »

Daft trollop was still better. :( <3 Tanc!
High Chancellor for Single Malt Scotches, Accounting Stuffs and Biffin Greeting.
/tell Biffin 'sup bro!
User avatar
Kelshara
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4176
Joined: November 18, 2002, 10:44 am
Location: Norway

Post by Kelshara »

Animalor wrote:
Metanis wrote: The success of the UN resolution was predicated on getting a strong "respected" force in place extremely quickly so that Hezbullies doesn't move back into the south of Lebanon.

This is what the French used to rally the UN Security Council into buying the plan.

So now the dipshit French have simply walked away from the implicit committment they made and sure as shit, the Hezbullies are moving back into southern Lebanon and getting fresh arms supplies.

All we're really seeing here is more political maneuvering. 1701
This all leads to the fact that within a few short months this war will resume and will be much bloodier than the last one. This French doublecross is one of the ugliest things I've ever seen in world affairs.
You ever stop to think for a moment that there might be a reason that they may not want to send too many troops in the region or on a UN peacekeeping force?

Here's a bit of a read. Don't worry if this type of test looks foreign, it's what's called non-biased reporting.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... al/Europe/

I won't even bother flaming you for the opening and closing line of that. I'll let you sort out your assholish tendencies with your deity of choice.
The French are 100% correct. With another weak mandate the force will be a waste of time and manpower. They need to have the ability to shoot when needed. See somebody firing a rocket into Israel? Capture if possible, shoot if not. See an Israeli on the wrong side of the border? Capture if possible, shoot if not.
User avatar
Siji
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4040
Joined: November 11, 2002, 5:58 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: mAcK 624
PSN ID: mAcK_624
Wii Friend Code: 7304853446448491
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
Contact:

Post by Siji »

Metanis wrote:You make an assertion and then suppose it's proof.
Sort of like you and religion.
User avatar
Cartalas
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4364
Joined: July 3, 2002, 2:39 pm
Location: Kyoukan's Mouth

Post by Cartalas »

Did France Approve this Proposal?
User avatar
Animalor
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 5902
Joined: July 8, 2002, 12:03 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Anirask
PSN ID: Anirask
Location: Canada

Post by Animalor »

UN resolution 1701 was co-drafted by France and the United States and voted on unanimously by the security council on Aug 11th.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Securit ... ution_1701
User avatar
Cartalas
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4364
Joined: July 3, 2002, 2:39 pm
Location: Kyoukan's Mouth

Post by Cartalas »

Animalor wrote:UN resolution 1701 was co-drafted by France and the United States and voted on unanimously by the security council on Aug 11th.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Securit ... ution_1701
So if they didnt like the Resolution and were not going to send any troops, why draft it. Look on the bright side at least the UN troops wont surrender.
User avatar
Animalor
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 5902
Joined: July 8, 2002, 12:03 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Anirask
PSN ID: Anirask
Location: Canada

Post by Animalor »

Cartalas wrote:
Animalor wrote:UN resolution 1701 was co-drafted by France and the United States and voted on unanimously by the security council on Aug 11th.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Securit ... ution_1701
So if they didnt like the Resolution and were not going to send any troops, why draft it. Look on the bright side at least the UN troops wont surrender.
Here's the wording of 1701 as it related to the UN force of 15000
11. Decides, in order to supplement and enhance the force in numbers, equipment, mandate and scope of operations, to authorize an increase in the force strength of UNIFIL to a maximum of 15,000 troops, and that the force shall, in addition to carrying out its mandate under resolutions 425 and 426 (1978):

(a) Monitor the cessation of hostilities;

(b) Accompany and support the Lebanese armed forces as they deploy throughout the South, including along the Blue Line, as Israel withdraws its armed forces from Lebanon as provided in paragraph 2;

(c) Coordinate its activities related to paragraph 11 (b) with the Government of Lebanon and the Government of Israel;

(d) Extend its assistance to help ensure humanitarian access to civilian populations and the voluntary and safe return of displaced persons;

(e) Assist the Lebanese armed forces in taking steps towards the establishment of the area as referred to in paragraph 8;

(f) Assist the Government of Lebanon, at its request, to implement paragraph 14;

12. Acting in support of a request from the Government of Lebanon to deploy an international force to assist it to exercise its authority throughout the territory, authorizes UNIFIL to take all necessary action in areas of deployment of its forces and as it deems within its capabilities, to ensure that its area of operations is not utilized for hostile activities of any kind, to resist attempts by forceful means to prevent it from discharging its duties under the mandate of the Security Council, and to protect United Nations personnel, facilities, installations and equipment, ensure the security and freedom of movement of United Nations personnel, humanitarian workers and, without prejudice to the responsibility of the Government of Lebanon, to protect civilians under imminent threat of physical violence;

13. Requests the Secretary-General urgently to put in place measures to ensure UNIFIL is able to carry out the functions envisaged in this resolution, urges Member States to consider making appropriate contributions to UNIFIL and to respond positively to requests for assistance from the Force, and expresses its strong appreciation to those who have contributed to UNIFIL in the past;
Dry and kinda dull ain't it?

The document doesn't force countries to submit troops to the effort.
countries decide if and how many troops they will deploy.

Rules of Engagement for the UNIFIL force isn't detailed in this either and, if I'm not mistaken, are purely the result of international politics.
User avatar
Nick
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 5711
Joined: July 4, 2002, 3:45 pm

Post by Nick »

Hey guys Metanis is a douche
User avatar
Kelshara
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4176
Joined: November 18, 2002, 10:44 am
Location: Norway

Post by Kelshara »

Cartalas wrote:
Animalor wrote:UN resolution 1701 was co-drafted by France and the United States and voted on unanimously by the security council on Aug 11th.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Securit ... ution_1701
So if they didnt like the Resolution and were not going to send any troops, why draft it. Look on the bright side at least the UN troops wont surrender.
Luckily no US troops will be there so there wont be any friendly fire deaths.
User avatar
kyoukan
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 8548
Joined: July 5, 2002, 3:33 am
Location: Vancouver

Post by kyoukan »

vn_Tanc wrote:
Hezbullies
That's a fucking great word. Right up there with "demonrats".
Conservatives of low intelligence need to give cute nicknames to things because it makes them feel superior. Myself I like Baghdad Bob and Sodamn Insane.
User avatar
Cartalas
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4364
Joined: July 3, 2002, 2:39 pm
Location: Kyoukan's Mouth

Post by Cartalas »

Kelshara wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
Animalor wrote:UN resolution 1701 was co-drafted by France and the United States and voted on unanimously by the security council on Aug 11th.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Securit ... ution_1701
So if they didnt like the Resolution and were not going to send any troops, why draft it. Look on the bright side at least the UN troops wont surrender.
Luckily no US troops will be there so there wont be any friendly fire deaths.
When did the French kill US troops? Ill have to look that one up.
User avatar
Boogahz
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 9438
Joined: July 6, 2002, 2:00 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: corin12
PSN ID: boog144
Location: Austin, TX
Contact:

Post by Boogahz »

Kelshara wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
Animalor wrote:UN resolution 1701 was co-drafted by France and the United States and voted on unanimously by the security council on Aug 11th.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Securit ... ution_1701
So if they didnt like the Resolution and were not going to send any troops, why draft it. Look on the bright side at least the UN troops wont surrender.
Luckily no US troops will be there so there wont be any friendly fire deaths.
Maybe the UN troops will actually get bullets for their guns though. The US Marines didn't have them most of the time they were stationed there...
User avatar
Animalor
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 5902
Joined: July 8, 2002, 12:03 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Anirask
PSN ID: Anirask
Location: Canada

Post by Animalor »

User avatar
Boogahz
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 9438
Joined: July 6, 2002, 2:00 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: corin12
PSN ID: boog144
Location: Austin, TX
Contact:

Post by Boogahz »

Animalor wrote:This one is for Metanis....
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/08 ... index.html
Yay, they will get to hurl insults if they are attacked! And maybe they will taunt them A SECOND TIME!
User avatar
kyoukan
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 8548
Joined: July 5, 2002, 3:33 am
Location: Vancouver

Post by kyoukan »

Tomorrow's headline: "Two Thousand French Marines Surrender To Four Lebanese Goat Herders And A Grocery Clerk"

I can't resist!
User avatar
Al
Star Farmer
Star Farmer
Posts: 461
Joined: August 6, 2006, 4:01 am
Location: Bolivar, NY

Post by Al »

Metanis wrote:An adult supports the assertion with analysis and proof and then makes conclusions based on the facts presented and the strength of the argument.

Perhaps you should take your toys and go home little girl?
This coming from someone who is presenting the image that they both know and support the bible. I'm not saying there is no truth to the bible, nor am I saying there is truth, but there is a preponderance of evidence much to the contrary of what a large portion of the bible says.
User avatar
Metanis
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1417
Joined: July 5, 2002, 4:54 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Post by Metanis »

Al wrote:
Metanis wrote:An adult supports the assertion with analysis and proof and then makes conclusions based on the facts presented and the strength of the argument.

Perhaps you should take your toys and go home little girl?
This coming from someone who is presenting the image that they both know and support the bible. I'm not saying there is no truth to the bible, nor am I saying there is truth, but there is a preponderance of evidence much to the contrary of what a large portion of the bible says.
Your reasoning skills aren't up to the task here. You are taking my comments and attempting to connect them to another subject entirely. This is a common tactic by folks with a weak argument. It's called "changing the subject".

But I'll humor you for my own enjoyment. Kooky made an accusation against me. She never even attempted to prove it however she seems to think that merely reasserting the accusation is tantamount to conviction. Hence my comment regarding analysis and proof.

Now if you seem to think that is somehow related to my faith in Jesus and the Bible well then good luck in life.
*~*stragi*~*
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 3876
Joined: July 3, 2002, 1:59 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: kimj0ngil
Location: Ahwatukee, Arizona
Contact:

Post by *~*stragi*~* »

if you guys had a surf board what color would it be and would you put swords on the bottom instead of fins?
User avatar
Sylvus
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 7033
Joined: July 10, 2002, 11:10 am
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: mp72
Location: A², MI
Contact:

Post by Sylvus »

Moron Alert - Metanis



While I'm not really a liberal, I'll admit that's just an assertion. Can someone else help me come up with a proof for it?
"It's like these guys take pride in being ignorant." - Barack Obama

Go Blue!
User avatar
noel
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 10003
Joined: August 22, 2002, 1:34 am
Gender: Male
Location: Calabasas, CA

Post by noel »

Sylvus wrote:Moron Alert - Metanis



While I'm not really a liberal, I'll admit that's just an assertion. Can someone else help me come up with a proof for it?
Of course.

Done.
Oh, my God; I care so little, I almost passed out.
User avatar
Aardor
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1443
Joined: July 23, 2002, 12:32 am
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Phoenix612
Location: Allentown, PA

Post by Aardor »

Metanis wrote:
Al wrote:
Metanis wrote:An adult supports the assertion with analysis and proof and then makes conclusions based on the facts presented and the strength of the argument.

Perhaps you should take your toys and go home little girl?
This coming from someone who is presenting the image that they both know and support the bible. I'm not saying there is no truth to the bible, nor am I saying there is truth, but there is a preponderance of evidence much to the contrary of what a large portion of the bible says.
Your reasoning skills aren't up to the task here. You are taking my comments and attempting to connect them to another subject entirely. This is a common tactic by folks with a weak argument. It's called "changing the subject".

But I'll humor you for my own enjoyment. Kooky made an accusation against me. She never even attempted to prove it however she seems to think that merely reasserting the accusation is tantamount to conviction. Hence my comment regarding analysis and proof.

Now if you seem to think that is somehow related to my faith in Jesus and the Bible well then good luck in life.
Actually, it seems to me that your reasoning skills are not up to the task of following Al's post, or your own for that matter. However, I will try and help you reason this out:

First, you state an assertion that adults support their assertions...(see quoted text for the full assertion).

Next, Al uses the assertion you made in regards to your views on religion (which you have not supported with analysis and proof, which is then used to make conclusions based on the facts presented and the strenght of the argument), implying that because of this, you are not an adult (from my experiences reading this board, a foregone conclusion).

Your reponse to Al's post implies that your assertion about adults supporting their assertions only applies to the subject which you and Kyoukan were talking about. However, in order for Al to use his "reasoning skills" to come to this conclusion, he would have to read your mind to realize your general statement was only for a specific subject.
User avatar
Arborealus
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 3417
Joined: September 21, 2002, 5:36 am
Contact:

Post by Arborealus »

Aardor wrote:
Metanis wrote:
Al wrote:
Metanis wrote:An adult supports the assertion with analysis and proof and then makes conclusions based on the facts presented and the strength of the argument.

Perhaps you should take your toys and go home little girl?
This coming from someone who is presenting the image that they both know and support the bible. I'm not saying there is no truth to the bible, nor am I saying there is truth, but there is a preponderance of evidence much to the contrary of what a large portion of the bible says.
Your reasoning skills aren't up to the task here. You are taking my comments and attempting to connect them to another subject entirely. This is a common tactic by folks with a weak argument. It's called "changing the subject".

But I'll humor you for my own enjoyment. Kooky made an accusation against me. She never even attempted to prove it however she seems to think that merely reasserting the accusation is tantamount to conviction. Hence my comment regarding analysis and proof.

Now if you seem to think that is somehow related to my faith in Jesus and the Bible well then good luck in life.
Actually, it seems to me that your reasoning skills are not up to the task of following Al's post, or your own for that matter. However, I will try and help you reason this out:

First, you state an assertion that adults support their assertions...(see quoted text for the full assertion).

Next, Al uses the assertion you made in regards to your views on religion (which you have not supported with analysis and proof, which is then used to make conclusions based on the facts presented and the strenght of the argument), implying that because of this, you are not an adult (from my experiences reading this board, a foregone conclusion).

Your reponse to Al's post implies that your assertion about adults supporting their assertions only applies to the subject which you and Kyoukan were talking about. However, in order for Al to use his "reasoning skills" to come to this conclusion, he would have to read your mind to realize your general statement was only for a specific subject.
Don't obfuscate his arguements with rational thought...And don't confuse them for rational thoughts either...:)...1+1 has nothing to do with 2 in Metanisland
User avatar
Kylere
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 3354
Joined: July 3, 2002, 6:26 pm
Location: Flint, Michigan

Post by Kylere »

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp ... e_id=75032

Seems the french have backpeddled making this entire thread moot

Oh yeah and Arborealus, Ben Franklin did NOT say that, it is a common misquoting though. Neither did Jefferson though he gets the credit occasionally. It was some little known guy various atttributed all ove r the place. But Franklin himself said it was not his.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Those_who_ ... al_Liberty
She Dreams in Digital
\"Led Zeppelin taught an entire generation of young men how to make love, if they just listen\"- Michael Reed(2005)
User avatar
Metanis
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1417
Joined: July 5, 2002, 4:54 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Post by Metanis »

Aardor wrote:
Metanis wrote:
Al wrote:
Metanis wrote:An adult supports the assertion with analysis and proof and then makes conclusions based on the facts presented and the strength of the argument.

Perhaps you should take your toys and go home little girl?
This coming from someone who is presenting the image that they both know and support the bible. I'm not saying there is no truth to the bible, nor am I saying there is truth, but there is a preponderance of evidence much to the contrary of what a large portion of the bible says.
Your reasoning skills aren't up to the task here. You are taking my comments and attempting to connect them to another subject entirely. This is a common tactic by folks with a weak argument. It's called "changing the subject".

But I'll humor you for my own enjoyment. Kooky made an accusation against me. She never even attempted to prove it however she seems to think that merely reasserting the accusation is tantamount to conviction. Hence my comment regarding analysis and proof.

Now if you seem to think that is somehow related to my faith in Jesus and the Bible well then good luck in life.
Actually, it seems to me that your reasoning skills are not up to the task of following Al's post, or your own for that matter. However, I will try and help you reason this out:

First, you state an assertion that adults support their assertions...(see quoted text for the full assertion).

Next, Al uses the assertion you made in regards to your views on religion (which you have not supported with analysis and proof, which is then used to make conclusions based on the facts presented and the strenght of the argument), implying that because of this, you are not an adult (from my experiences reading this board, a foregone conclusion).

Your reponse to Al's post implies that your assertion about adults supporting their assertions only applies to the subject which you and Kyoukan were talking about. However, in order for Al to use his "reasoning skills" to come to this conclusion, he would have to read your mind to realize your general statement was only for a specific subject.
I see.

However your ploy is transparent. You just decided to use the old "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance then baffle them with bullshit" method.

Let me ask you a question Mr. Genius One. How do you propose to separate articles of faith from the more mundane and hence "provable" world?
User avatar
Aardor
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1443
Joined: July 23, 2002, 12:32 am
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Phoenix612
Location: Allentown, PA

Post by Aardor »

I see.

However your ploy is transparent. You just decided to use the old "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance then baffle them with bullshit" method.

Let me ask you a question Mr. Genius One. How do you propose to separate articles of faith from the more mundane and hence "provable" world?
How is that relevent. I think you might need to reread my post, or read it for the first time.

I did not try and dazzle you with brilliance or baffle you with bullshit, I explained in a rational and logical fashion the progression of your post about assertions to Al's post, and to your post responding to Al's post because you seemed to fail to comprehend the said progression.

How do you propose to differentiate articles of faith and assertions?, because if you do not find a reasonable way to do that, an article of faith is nothing more than an assertion, and your original statement should apply.

The faith card was brought up as an assertion you cannot prove. No one is attacking your faith, they are attacking your original statement which states that people are not adults if they can not prove their assertions.

However, you are just going to ignore the content of this post, so carry on with your life, little one.
User avatar
Arborealus
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 3417
Joined: September 21, 2002, 5:36 am
Contact:

Post by Arborealus »

Kylere wrote:http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp ... e_id=75032

Seems the french have backpeddled making this entire thread moot

Oh yeah and Arborealus, Ben Franklin did NOT say that, it is a common misquoting though. Neither did Jefferson though he gets the credit occasionally. It was some little known guy various atttributed all ove r the place. But Franklin himself said it was not his.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Those_who_ ... al_Liberty
Ok but he said it when he gave the other guy credit...:)...The point is he felt it and endorsed it...
User avatar
Arborealus
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 3417
Joined: September 21, 2002, 5:36 am
Contact:

Post by Arborealus »

[quote='Metanis'] Let me ask you a question Mr. Genius One. How do you propose to separate articles of faith from the more mundane and hence "provable" world?[/quote]

Empiricism...its an old tool look into it...
User avatar
Al
Star Farmer
Star Farmer
Posts: 461
Joined: August 6, 2006, 4:01 am
Location: Bolivar, NY

Post by Al »

Aardor wrote: The faith card was brought up as an assertion you cannot prove. No one is attacking your faith, they are attacking your original statement which states that people are not adults if they can not prove their assertions.
It seems everyone understood my assertion except the person that brought up the subject. I guess anything said involving religion vs. science will always end in religion bashing in some eyes.
User avatar
Metanis
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1417
Joined: July 5, 2002, 4:54 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Post by Metanis »

Al wrote:
Aardor wrote: The faith card was brought up as an assertion you cannot prove. No one is attacking your faith, they are attacking your original statement which states that people are not adults if they can not prove their assertions.
It seems everyone understood my assertion except the person that brought up the subject. I guess anything said involving religion vs. science will always end in religion bashing in some eyes.
It seems like everyone here has selective reading comprehension.

Kooky uses blunt force smear tactics to attack people on a personal level rather than on the merits of an argument. I was responding to her attack. Her traditional attack is to simply call people stupid in creative fashions. Since most of us ignore that tactic she's now shifted to unfounded accusations of plagarism against me.

When I stated that adults use reasoning to validate their assertions it was to push back against her tactic and to reveal its childishness. This issue of my faith came up later in the thread and is also being used as a form of attack. The attempt to link two disparate circumstances and try to paint them with the same brush is nearly as childish as Kooky's original ploy.

You are trying to imply that because some assertions can't be proven we should accept them all on face value? Or you are trying to imply that people of faith can't use logic and reasoning when those tools apply?

In either case we have an abundance of a product here in Wisconsin which smells like your argument... bullshit.
User avatar
kyoukan
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 8548
Joined: July 5, 2002, 3:33 am
Location: Vancouver

Post by kyoukan »

Metanis wrote: Kooky uses blunt force smear tactics to attack people on a personal level rather than on the merits of an argument.
I do my best to discuss the merits of an argument. Nothing you have ever posted on any of these forums has ever had any merit. Thus, I spend the majority of my time calling you names.

Anything I would ever have to say to you on a serious level would sail right over your head anyway, and you would either just say something pithy about how smart you are and how dumb everyone else is (despite the fact that over a dozen people are disagreeing with you) and have a little phony chuckle over it, or simply abandon the thread and I would have wasted my time responding to you. You do this in every thread you post in. You will do it in this one.
Metanis wrote:I was responding to her attack. Her traditional attack is to simply call people stupid in creative fashions. Since most of us ignore that tactic she's now shifted to unfounded accusations of plagarism against me.
Yes because it was a blatant plagarization of someone else's thoughts, from one of those stupid fucking blogs you read like they are news. It doesn't take a whole lot of reading skills to figure out what you copied and pasted into here far exceeded anything you've ever posted in here in terms of clarity of thought and in regards to the level of communications skills. The whole point was still dead wrong from a philosophic point of view, but it was still far beyond anything you could ever vomit onto an internet forum.

When you spend three years doing nothing but posting "loonie liberals" over and over again and suddenly come up with a cogent series of sentences that contain actual linear thinking and compelling (if wrong) arguments, you can't honestly expect anyone to fucking believe you. You're such an enormous retard that posting anything other than "lol lieberalz r gay" is going to make everyone wonder from what source you are getting your non-retard posts from.

But do keep trying to look innocent because it's utterly fucking hilarious to me how stupid you look trying to convince everyone here that you aren't a plagarizing dumbass who needs talking heads and neocon blogs to not only tell you how to think, but exactly how to say it.
User avatar
Zaelath
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4621
Joined: April 11, 2003, 5:53 am
Location: Canberra

Post by Zaelath »

I just like this whole "adults support their view with rational argument" thing coming from the man that told me using reason when it comes to risk management was evil.

Oh. My. God. What a hypercrite. And yes, that's not a typo, it's a whole new level of hypocrisy.
May 2003 - "Mission Accomplished"
June 2005 - "The mission isn't easy, and it will not be accomplished overnight"
-- G W Bush, freelance writer for The Daily Show.
User avatar
Midnyte_Ragebringer
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 7062
Joined: July 4, 2002, 1:59 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Daellyn
Location: Northeast Pennsylvania

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

kyoukan wrote:
When you spend three years doing nothing but posting "loonie liberals" over and over again and suddenly come up with a cogent series of sentences that contain actual linear thinking and compelling (if wrong) arguments, you can't honestly expect anyone to fucking believe you. .
****in an Irish accent***

"Ahhh well good morning", said the Pot.

"A wonderful morning to you", said the Kettle.

"Lookin a wee bit Black today", said the Pot.
User avatar
Al
Star Farmer
Star Farmer
Posts: 461
Joined: August 6, 2006, 4:01 am
Location: Bolivar, NY

Post by Al »

Metanis wrote:
Al wrote:
Aardor wrote: The faith card was brought up as an assertion you cannot prove. No one is attacking your faith, they are attacking your original statement which states that people are not adults if they can not prove their assertions.
It seems everyone understood my assertion except the person that brought up the subject. I guess anything said involving religion vs. science will always end in religion bashing in some eyes.
It seems like everyone here has selective reading comprehension.

Kooky uses blunt force smear tactics to attack people on a personal level rather than on the merits of an argument. I was responding to her attack. Her traditional attack is to simply call people stupid in creative fashions. Since most of us ignore that tactic she's now shifted to unfounded accusations of plagarism against me.

When I stated that adults use reasoning to validate their assertions it was to push back against her tactic and to reveal its childishness. This issue of my faith came up later in the thread and is also being used as a form of attack. The attempt to link two disparate circumstances and try to paint them with the same brush is nearly as childish as Kooky's original ploy.

You are trying to imply that because some assertions can't be proven we should accept them all on face value? Or you are trying to imply that people of faith can't use logic and reasoning when those tools apply?

In either case we have an abundance of a product here in Wisconsin which smells like your argument... bullshit.
True, it was an attack, although I think you took it personally when in fact it was an attack on the generalized statement you made about assertions. My entire point was that not all assertions can be backed up with logic, reason or evidence, regardless of the amount of truth behind them. I could make the assertion, "You must be a bull, because you know what bullshit smells like." I just backed that up with logic and evidence (and some may even say reason), but I'm sure you know the truth behind it is lacking. The fact that you are making it a black and white issue leads me to believe that you are either trolling or are, in fact, retarded. The chips are stacked high against trolling...
Post Reply