No need for an immediate ceasefire? NWS or for faint hearts

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Nick
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No need for an immediate ceasefire? NWS or for faint hearts

Post by Nick »

Image

http://fromisraeltolebanon.info/files/qana/9q1.jpg

I'd love to see the Christians defend this.

Surely an immediate ceasefire is the only way to pave out any lasting road to peace. You never achieve peace by continuing hostilities. Regardless of blame, there is just simply no legitimate humanitarian excuse for this.

If the people don't act in a compassionate nature towards each other - to a greater or lesser extent - then there will be no lasting peace.

I know many of you just think the only thing that should happen here is a huge violent a bomb drop or something but in reality a concerted effort to stop giving people reasons to fight with each other is needed.

This current occupation slows down that process, whilst blowing babies heads off.

It's not exactly difficult to see what should be done.

Edit: Fixed.
Last edited by Nick on July 30, 2006, 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Sionistic »

Image wont hyperlink, gotta put the link in the address bar, and its nws
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Post by Boogahz »

Not defending either side in this, but the difference I see so far is that Lebanon is much more willing to publicize the civilian injuries and deaths than Israel is. Yes, it needs to end. Yes, innocents on BOTH sides are dying. Yes, it will probably happen again. WE get that. All you do is blame people for supposedly supporting Israel's attacks and try to take a moral high ground. Oh, wait...you were drunk.

Eventually you will realize that people might believe the same thing you do, but they are a lot more rational about dealing with it. You are still seeing the world with the eyes of an emo-teen. You see violence and you think "why am I here?" before you think to jump in and stop it.
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Post by Nick »

With a post like that you're claiming I'm taking the moral highground by wishing for a ceasefire? (something all polls the majority of people in the UK at least agree with).

I didn't apportion blame on anyone in that post specifically to avoid the condescension your post oozed. :roll:
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Post by Boogahz »

Nick wrote:With a post like that you're claiming I'm taking the moral highground by wishing for a ceasefire? (something all polls the majority of people in the UK at least agree with).

I didn't apportion blame on anyone in that post specifically to avoid the condescension your post oozed. :roll:
1) Why ask the Christians to defend what the JEWISH are doing? There are probably more Christians in Lebanon than Israel.

2) You are implying in your post that your "audience" feels that a bigger bomb will fix/end everything. That is what I was referring to.

3) As I pointed out, I agree that it needs to end. I can see no need to post the picture of a baby with it's head blown off to emphasize that unless you are trying to "shock" someone into agreeing with you or show that you are a better person in some sick way.

4) The condescension in my original post is directed more at most of your posts for the last year or so. Seriously, you might want to consider less drinking. I know that it is (supposedly) a cultural norm for the Irish to drink, but it's also (supposedly) the cultural norm for American civilians to be armed and shooting 4-7 people a week. Neither is true.
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Post by Metanis »

Nick, you are taking a decidedly Christian view of the hostilities!

Our God is not squeemish about people dying. It's the Christian teaching that we should turn the other cheek. The two parties to the current war don't subscribe to the Christian view of things. Remember they are Jews and Muslims? Remember "an eye for an eye"?

I'll grant you that the situation there is a tragedy however your pathetic whining is laughable. Grow up little boy. There will be peace in the middle east when the arabs decide they want it and not before.

In the meantime why don't you enlist in the Army so perhaps you can be deployed to the middle east as a peacekeeper? Then you can prove to us that you really do give a shit!
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Post by Kelshara »

Boogahz wrote:Not defending either side in this, but the difference I see so far is that Lebanon is much more willing to publicize the civilian injuries and deaths than Israel is.
Well we're also talking like 600 to 30 civilians killed.

Edit: Actually I believe the number is closer to 1000 now.
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Post by Nick »

I don't see joining the army and going and killing Iraqi's or being killed by Israeli's as a viable or intelligent option in terms of finding a lasting peace when the people in charge don't have that as their main goal.

Talking to people like you makes me sick to my fucking stomach.
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Post by dibit_eq »

Metanis wrote:It's the Christian teaching that we should turn the other cheek. The two parties to the current war don't subscribe to the Christian view of things. Remember they are Jews and Muslims? Remember "an eye for an eye"?
In all fairness, all three of our religions have their share of "it's cool to kill" and "pacifism is great" sentiments. To claim muslims and jews as warlike due to one easily coined statement isn't quite the whole of the situation. I know the jewish faith (and christian-adopted) ideas like "violence begets violence" is another one a person could claim says that all jews are pacifists. The fact is most people are petty and vengeful and that's the real core to the fighting in the middle east. This nature simply plays out in different ways in different areas.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

It's a war. There are going to be dead people. If a ceasefire was granted every time someone died, there would be no wars. Gee wouldn't that be swell?
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Post by Trias »

LET US POST EXTREME GORE TO MAKE A POINT!

EXTREME GORE!!!
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Re: No need for an immediate ceasefire? NWS or for faint hea

Post by Zamtuk »

Nick wrote:I'd love to see the Christians defend this.
why would christians need to defend a war between jews and muslims? do you know anything about the area beyond what you read at cnn.com? and what was the point of the picture? i just cant get past the fact that you probably put it there to take a jab at the US, though we arent directly in the conflict, so im sure im wrong.

oh, btw, there will never be peace in the middle east. helps if you know the history of the region as well. there has been war there since the beginning of time, you know persian empire through crusades, etc.
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Post by Ashur »

Nick wrote:Talking to people like you makes me sick to my fucking stomach.
Then quit posting here you fucking idiot since you invite it with every trollish post you make.
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Post by Nick »

Wow I've really managed to drag the shitheads out of the woodwork the last few days.

Groovy.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Nick wrote:Wow I've really managed to drag the shitheads out of the woodwork the last few days.

Groovy.
You've brought your trollness to a new level lately. Keep being a fucking idiot making outlandish, narrow minded, hateful posts and you will continue to get this kind of response. Try being a humble a little and see how the response changes. Your anme isn't Midnyte, so it just might work for you. /wink
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Re: No need for an immediate ceasefire? NWS or for faint hea

Post by Shanter »

Nick wrote: It's not exactly difficult to see what should be done.
Well what should be done?
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Re: No need for an immediate ceasefire? NWS or for faint hea

Post by Winnow »

Shanter wrote:
Nick wrote: It's not exactly difficult to see what should be done.
Well what should be done?
I'd like to hear your solution as well. In detail, and projected out about 50 years.
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Re: No need for an immediate ceasefire? NWS or for faint hea

Post by Trias »

Winnow wrote:
Shanter wrote:
Nick wrote: It's not exactly difficult to see what should be done.
Well what should be done?
I'd like to hear your solution as well. In detail, and projected out about 50 years.
the US needs to kill itself collectively so the world can be all happyhandjob.

for peace in the mid east i propose that they all just stop it right now. this stopping right now would help us for the next 50 years if every time they thought of something violent or extreme they would just stop it.

my name is not nick but there is your premptive answer!

^^
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Post by Zamtuk »

Nick wrote:Wow I've really managed to drag the shitheads out of the woodwork the last few days.

Groovy.
is that the "huh huh, wow, they really are making me look like a fucking idiot, i best stop replying intelligently (as close as you can get) and admit im a jackass" retort?

besides, you of all people should understand even more than the US about religious conflicts. your pithy fucking country was involved in one for centuries.
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Post by Pherr the Dorf »

To be honest Nick, you have looked like a bitter tool this whole thread... posting what you did served zero purpose... noone said OMFGZORS I never imagined they killed babies... it's fucking war and the things you have said and the picture you posted were unneccessary, you have regurgitated these emotions a hundred times... and the picture was disturbing, but only because you decided to post something like that in our little world here.

The sad thing is you really are this passionate about it, but all you choose to do is stand there and rant... and in the end people walk by and mutter out of earshot but stop listening to a word you say
The first duty of a patriot is to question the government

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Post by Skogen »

Ever seen images from the aftermath of a suicide bomber in Israel?

There is nothing new about scenes like this. As horrifying as it is, it's fairly common in any war, any place in the world.
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Post by Nick »

All I did was point out exactly what the US, UK and Israel defend as "proportionate" - if that's too fucking graphic for you bitter twats to accept it's not my problem.

Zamtuk, I don't think you of all people is in a position to berate any other country - let alone another person. Fucking tool.
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Post by Tyek »

Nick,

Unfortunately people die during war. Do you really think any sane person likes this? I find these images extremely disturbing as well.

http://www.ethanzuckerman.com/blog/?p=56

not because they show any grotesque images, but because of what they represent. These were children that will remember these things the rest of their lives and who will be scarred by it. Did anyone even know this was happening? Nope, not sexy, CNN wasn't around and so it went unreported. Tragedies like this are happening all over the world.

Hezbollah(spelling?) is just as much to blame about this. They admitted they did not expect this response. They admitted they routinely captured soldiers and citizens of Israel to attain release of their soldiers. At some point they had to know it was going to explode and it did. I am not saying it was the right or wrong response by Israel, but it was going to happen at some point. As everyone pointed out, this part of the world is dealing with tensions that are thousands of years old. They are not going to be overcome in a few weeks, months or years. Some parts of the Middle East are not much different then they were when these tensions started, those hundreds or even thousands of years ago.

I don't know anyone here who would not be happy to see everyone in the world throw down their weapons, pick up a coke and sing "I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing". Trust me as a dad, I want my children to grow up in a safe world. I grew up during the Reagan/Russia era where Nuclear Weapons were a real threat. I wish Bird Flu was the worst epidemic my kids ever have to face, but the cold reality is that people cannot put aside differences en mass. The leaders of both groups could call a cease fire tomorrow and some nutjob fringe group on either side would probably exploit it.

I hate to see people jumping down your throat for being a pacifist or optomist. At your age you should be wanting to change the injustices of the world. You should want to take down the evil corporations and fix the wrongs in society. As you get older you realize not every company is evil and not every problem has an easy solution. (I am sure you realize this already, but you are optomistic and young and think it can be changed.) One of my favorite quotes ever was by Mohammed Ali, and I think it states better then I ever could the reality of aging and viewpoints...
"If you view life at 50 the same way you did at 20, then you have wasted thirty years of your life."
Sorry if this was condescending, it was not meant to be. It was meant to show the differences in viewpoints. Where you see horrific atrocities, we see them too, but we have also seen them many times, and feel we may better understand the dynamics that created this. As horrible as it is, it will happen again when you are 30, 40, 50, 60....

If we cannot get along here - and plenty of the people on here can't - how would you expect people to get along in the real world.
When I was younger, I used to think that the world was doing it to me and that the world owes me some thing…When you're a teeny bopper, that's what you think. I'm 40 now, I don't think that anymore, because I found out it doesn't f--king work. One has to go through that. For the people who even bother to go through that, most assholes just accept what it is anyway and get on with it." - John Lennon
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Great post Tyek.
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Post by Kelshara »

Tyek wrote:http://www.ethanzuckerman.com/blog/?p=56

not because they show any grotesque images, but because of what they represent. These were children that will remember these things the rest of their lives and who will be scarred by it. Did anyone even know this was happening? Nope, not sexy, CNN wasn't around and so it went unreported. Tragedies like this are happening all over the world.
Interestingly enough I read a very long and very good article in a newspaper here about Darfur and Congo over the weekend. Shame it was in Norwegian or I would have linked it here. Very very good article about a situation that dwarfs every other conflict in the world.
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Post by Nick »

Great post Tyek and I understand exactly what you're saying and where your coming from, I didn't find it condescending.

Anybody who remains mentally the same from the age of 20 to 50 has indeed wasted their life. I can certainly notice the change even in the last 5 years of myself in a big way and this will continue - that is the mental development and growth of your mind - it is a good thing.

I still feel a lot of the people on this board have confused maturity with ignorant lazy cynicism.

People seem to assume I think all the worlds problems are fixable by everyone just stopping fighting or giving each other a huge hug.

I never thought that. It would be nice in a perfect world, but I never once said it was a viable option except in lala land. There are certain realities that can be fixed very easily at the moment.

They are just ones that certain governments don't want to agree to.

But talking to most of the people on this board is like talking to a bunch of 5 year old retards so what is the fucking point?

I await the usual jokes of the server like Trias to pop up with some 6 year old humour that about 3 people ever found even vaguely amusing. :roll:
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Post by Zamtuk »

Nick wrote:Zamtuk, I don't think you of all people is in a position to berate any other country - let alone another person. Fucking tool.
how exactly? your outlook on the us is more radical than half of al qaeda, good thing youre too drunk or dropping acid too much to do anything about it. 99 percent of your posts insult the us, then when this attempt blows up in your face you try to take the high road?

fuck you. youre the irish version of metanis.
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Post by Nick »

It's not hard to take the high road over a frothing fuck up like yourself. Was that post even meant to be smart or witty? I can't tell through all the utter fuckwittedness.

You're not even the American version of anyone, you're in a whole league of hysterical on your own.

Now fuck up and fuck off.
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Post by Deward »

The only way this will ever stop is if every person within 500 miles of israel(includign israel) were dead. Even then it would probably only delay the killing as they bred back up.
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Post by Zamtuk »

lol i have said nothing hysterical, just calling you a dumbass for your obvious lack of knowledge of anything in the middle east beyond what headlines you read. but continue to say im a frothing retard or whatever, i actually think its funny you are completely unable to have an argument without throwing your hands in the air and giving up.

or were you drunk when you posted this thread? that excuse never gets old.
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Post by Animalor »

Just a quick aside here, that photo that Nick used is from the 1996 Qana Massacre where 400 people died and international pressure led Israel and Hezbollah to a ceasefire then. I've seen this picture on the site that Nick linked and another site and both have this photo listed to the 1996 massacre.

The 2006 photos aren't anywhere near gore-filled but are still painful to look at.

Seems to my like the clearly labeled 1996 picture was only used in this thread as an easy way to "stir shit up" by Nick as opposed to start any type of reasonable discussion about the subject (then again, who the hell comes to VV for a reasonable discussion these days anyways?).
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Post by Nick »

How fucking retardedly ignorant do you want to be?

If I only read the headlines on the Middle East I'd end up with a completely different opinion, not that you would ever notice.

I don't throw my hands up because I am unable to have an argument, I throw my hands up because of stupid fucking words like "or where your druNk LOLOL IM HILARIOUS" whilst you do nothing but completely avoid having any discussion in favour of shitty unfunny one liners.

But whatever floats your boat dickhead.
Last edited by Nick on August 1, 2006, 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

He's unable of self deprevation. He cannot see that he was an ass and if he can he is unable of being humble enough to admit it. No biggie. He's young. He will gain that ability more as he matures.
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Post by Nick »

Oh, wow, a hyena - how predictably pathetic.
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Post by Zamtuk »

actually i simply asked why christians would defend a war against jews and muslims to which you responded, 'oh look, morons come out of the woodwork, roofles'. thats some mighty good conversational skills there nick. seriously, you really need a recap of a thread with all of 26 posts?
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Post by Nick »

Regarding the christian thing, that was to do with all the alleged christians on the board such who had been coming off with posts like "i think we should just nuke em all" or stupidity of a similar ilk. To highlight these fucking cowardly bastards who sit and wallow in their countries security whilst others suffer.

As for the more morons/woodwork comment, that was to Ashur and the like, not you specifically. I guess I was getting lost in all the retarded replies instead of replying to your point, but you must understand, there were a lot :p

It was obvious that there would be no discussion at all after not one single person decided to discuss anything other than condescension and their own superiority over anything and everything - albeit except you and Boogahz

Sadly, you just decided to go on the attack like the rest of them, culminating in our little tiff in these last few posts - because quite honestly, not one single discussion except people trolling had been made and not one person had done anything but come off with a pseudo superiority complex and it all just degenerated into farce. I used to get along with you (I think?) - but this thread was made utterly ridiculous, when it's original intent is pretty fucking straightforward if any of you actually took the time to read it.
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Post by kyoukan »

haha, you are making such a complete ass of yourself.
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Post by Nick »

Edit: Whats the point of replying to the pot.
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Post by Zamtuk »

heh fair enough nick, must have misunderstood your point!
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Post by Cartalas »

kyoukan wrote:haha, you are making such a complete Kyoukan of yourself.

Fixed
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Post by Ashur »

Nick wrote:Wow I've really managed to drag the shitheads out of the woodwork the last few days.
Nick wrote:As for the more morons/woodwork comment, that was to Ashur and the like, not you specifically.
Wow, I've got a rep as a "shithead"?

/boggle

Buy a clue, Nick.
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Post by kyoukan »

Nick wrote:Edit: Whats the point of replying to the pot.
you don't seem to have a problem getting all shrilly and retarded on everyone else.

seriously even midnyte is trashing on you
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Post by Nick »

Kyoukan, all you ever do is try and shit on everyone else, so it sort of became pointless years ago.

Edited: For the confused.
Last edited by Nick on August 1, 2006, 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Ashur »

rofl, what?
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Post by Nick »

I wasn't talking to you?
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Post by kyoukan »

Nick wrote:Kyoukan, all you ever do is try and shit on everyone else, so it sort of became pointless years ago.
the observant will notice that I only really do that to stupid people.
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Post by Nick »

whatever makes you happy
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Post by Winnow »

100% humidity means Canadians are sucking some Irish cock. <insert dead baby picture from random war> Yo pedophiles! Fucking Metallica man. Grandma undies! Not a real sport.
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Post by Toshira »

I have that doll in the photo.
There is not enough disk space available to delete this file, please delete some files to free up disk space.
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Post by cadalano »

nick, still waiting on your detailed action plan to resolve all conflict in the middle east and maintain a lasting peace. you'll get your points across much better that way instead of arguing with individuals. im speaking without an ounce of sarcasm here... can you please take some time and write out your detailed plans for us?
I TOLD YOU ID SHOOT! BUT YOU DIDNT BELIEVE ME! WHY DIDNT YOU BELIEVE ME?
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