Israel can burn in hell

Nick · Post by **Nick** » July 21, 2006, 3:16 pm

With news reports that phospherous bombs are now being used on Lebanese families and the internationally accepted fact among normal people that this offensive is killing families/women/children with absolutely no links to Hezbollah on a scale that can only be described by using words such as "massacre" do any of you actually believe what Israel is doing is in any way excusable?

I understand you some feel that Israel shouldn't accept shellings from Southern lebanese freedom fighters, I ask you then if the Southern lebanese should accept the same? Given that both sides have been doing this to each other for years.

What is appropriate action? What is appropriate revenge? How can Israel justify this blatant murder when it's already known to be the most aggressive country in the Middle East and should be reigned in?

I can understand proportianate response, this is way beyond that.

If you are just going to make veiled racist anti arab posts just shut the fuck up and don't bother.

This conflict (read aggression by Israel) isn't going to do anyone any good.

Personally, I feel Israel should immediately face sanctions and severe criticism from the UN and the US and should be ordered to stop all attacks immediately. If it was looking for revenge, it has already wrought more havoc than any revenge deserved. Lebanon needs time to create a stable scoiety and this just ruined any chance of that in the next 10 years.

Fucking disgusting. I am so fucking angry the way the US and UK are acting and how their respective medias are reporting this. And we wonder why we get attacked by terrorists

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » July 21, 2006, 4:15 pm

kill or be killed

Don't worry, this won't be over until Iran and Syria are involved and then the U.S. will jump in so you can yell at us again.

Think of it like forest fires. After several years of no fires, the forests are primed to burn. After a good burning, they are good for another few years before the cycle begins again. Better to let a huge fire burn briefly than to keep battling little ones. It gives you some time to enjoy life (if you live) for a few years in between.

Please don't tell me you have a diplomatic solution for the ongoing crisis in the Middle East. It's always going to be like this although no one will care much when oil is no longer needed after which Israel will be destroyed and the arab countries will fight amongst themselves instead of against the jews. The fighting will continue nonetheless even with Israel gone.

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » July 21, 2006, 4:31 pm

Winnow wrote:kill or be killed

Don't worry, this won't be over until Iran and Syria are involved and then the U.S. will jump in so you can yell at us again.

Think of it like forest fires. After several years of no fires, the forests are primed to burn. After a good burning, they are good for another few years before the cycle begins again. Better to let a huge fire burn briefly than to keep battling little ones. It gives you some time to enjoy life (if you live) for a few years in between.

Please don't tell me you have a diplomatic solution for the ongoing crisis in the Middle East. It's always going to be like this although no one will care much when oil is no longer needed after which Israel will be destroyed and the arab countries will fight amongst themselves instead of against the jews. The fighting will continue nonetheless even with Israel gone.

the muslims are fighting each other as it is....Sunni vs. Shiite.

You are right...there is no solution. Forget it. With the eye for an eye mentality common to muslim & israeli, it will never end.

EVER.

In the case of Israel's survival...live by the sword, die by the sword. Without the USA, they are in deep trouble. Someday, Israel will become way more of a liability than an asset.

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » July 21, 2006, 4:49 pm

Skogen wrote:Someday, Israel will become way more of a liability than an asset.

Let me roleplay here. I'm an Israeli bigshot and the end is approaching. My country is being attacked by vicious religious zealots. My allies have all abandoned me.

Fuck it... Push that big red button.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » July 21, 2006, 4:50 pm

Stupid people really do have an uncanny ability to start waxing lyrical about completely irrelevant shit sometimes dont they (ya know, in regards to the topic at hand).

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » July 21, 2006, 5:12 pm

With news reports that phospherous bombs are now being used on Lebanese families and the internationally accepted fact among normal people that this offensive is killing families/women/children with absolutely no links to Hezbollah on a scale that can only be described by using words such as "massacre" do any of you actually believe what Israel is doing is in any way excusable?

Yes.

I don't have time to write out more at the moment, I'm about to go away for the weekend. I'll try to give a longer answer when I get back on Sunday or so.

Toshira · Post by **Toshira** » July 21, 2006, 5:14 pm

Links to phospherous bomb info?

Don't neccisarily doubt it, but want to know more.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » July 21, 2006, 5:27 pm

Just going by what channel 4 news said in it's evening show.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » July 21, 2006, 5:31 pm

Sueven wrote:
With news reports that phospherous bombs are now being used on Lebanese families and the internationally accepted fact among normal people that this offensive is killing families/women/children with absolutely no links to Hezbollah on a scale that can only be described by using words such as "massacre" do any of you actually believe what Israel is doing is in any way excusable?
Yes.

I don't have time to write out more at the moment, I'm about to go away for the weekend. I'll try to give a longer answer when I get back on Sunday or so.

Ohhh the Suspense

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » July 21, 2006, 5:38 pm

Nick wrote:Just going by what channel 4 news said in it's evening show.

And you believe everything you see and hear on TV right? I mean those pretty news talkers are really smart and all. They wouldn't say it if it wasn't so would they?

I'll bet your favorite color is maroon.

Toshira · Post by **Toshira** » July 22, 2006, 1:48 am

Report: Israel Using Banned Phosphorus Weapons
Lebanon’s Information Minister Ghazi Aridi has accused Israel of using banned weapons in violation of international law. Reports in the Lebanese media have claimed that Israel has used phosphorus incendiary bombs and vacuum bombs that suck up air and facilitate building collapses. The use of incendiary weapons against civilians has been banned since 1980. The U.S. military used similar phosphorous weapons during the siege of Fallujuah in Iraq.

Not exactly 100% credible, reports from an information minister. It seems odd that Israel, who by most accounts, is targeting and destroying targets with very high accuracy, would use this type of anti-personnel device.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 22, 2006, 2:04 am

War is hell. If Israel can put enough pressure on the Lebanese population (via widespread death) the population will tell Hezbollah to knock off their stupid rocket antics and Israel will achieve it's goal which is to end the rocket attacks on their citizens.

It's not like the Lebanese/Muslims/Persians/Arabs are going to hate Israel more.

It's horrible what's happening there, but that's the nature of war. It's not like the terrorists are wearing uniforms and playing by the rules of war. They're dressed like civilians, popping out of civilian houses and firing off unguided rockets. If you're an Israeli citizen, being hit with an unguided rocket is probably not very fun. Lets also remember that northern Israel is full of families, children and elderly people too.

If Hezbollah and the citizens that support them want to continuously poke a hornets nest, they deserve what they get.

A friend made a comment to me a few days ago that I found pretty interesting, and I'd be interested to hear comments on it...

If the Palestinians/Arabs/Muslims laid down their weapons and declared they were no longer interested in fighting with Israel, there would be peace in the middle East. If Israel laid down their weapons and declared they would no longer fight with any of the Arab nations, they'd be massacred.

I pretty much agree with that statement though I'm FAR from pro-Israel. There will never be peace in the middle East, and the sooner the Israelis and Arabs wipe each other out, the better it will be for the rest of the world. Fuck them all.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » July 22, 2006, 2:13 am

Hey now, if you can't trust middle eastern information ministers then who can you trust?

noel wrote:I pretty much agree with that statement though I'm FAR from pro-Israel. There will never be peace in the middle East, and the sooner the Israelis and Arabs wipe each other out, the better it will be for the rest of the world. Fuck them all.

If I took your house, car and bank accounts away from you, ran over your family with a tank and bulldozed your grandmother's house, to build settlements, and then I declared that I was no longer interested in fighting about it with you, what would you do

arabs laying down their arms and ceasing the violence is what is commonly known as surrendering. they are fighting to get land that is holy to them back.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 22, 2006, 2:17 am

I'd fucking kill you.

It's stellar I know, but it makes total sense. It's also why I have no hope that there will ever be peace in the middle East. That's a pipe dream.

Only the dead have seen the end of war. - Plato

Edit: I also have no empathy whatsoever for anyone's 'land that is holy' argument. I understand where it comes from, but it's fucking silly in my mind.

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » July 22, 2006, 2:29 am

noel wrote:War is hell. If Israel can put enough pressure on the Lebanese population (via widespread death) the population will tell Hezbollah to knock off their stupid rocket antics and Israel will achieve it's goal which is to end the rocket attacks on their citizens.

It's not like the Lebanese/Muslims/Persians/Arabs are going to hate Israel more.

It's horrible what's happening there, but that's the nature of war. It's not like the terrorists are wearing uniforms and playing by the rules of war. They're dressed like civilians, popping out of civilian houses and firing off unguided rockets. If you're an Israeli citizen, being hit with an unguided rocket is probably not very fun. Lets also remember that northern Israel is full of families, children and elderly people too.

If Hezbollah and the citizens that support them want to continuously poke a hornets nest, they deserve what they get.

A friend made a comment to me a few days ago that I found pretty interesting, and I'd be interested to hear comments on it...

If the Palestinians/Arabs/Muslims laid down their weapons and declared they were no longer interested in fighting with Israel, there would be peace in the middle East. If Israel laid down their weapons and declared they would no longer fight with any of the Arab nations, they'd be massacred.

I pretty much agree with that statement though I'm FAR from pro-Israel. There will never be peace in the middle East, and the sooner the Israelis and Arabs wipe each other out, the better it will be for the rest of the world. Fuck them all.

Typical liberal. The friggen solution is staring you in the face and you've been so indoctrinated into the cult of political correctness you refuse to see it!

Hint: You libs love it when it's packaged as a woman's right to _ _ _ _ _.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 22, 2006, 2:32 am

Metanis, contribute useful information or shut the fuck up. I am not, nor have I ever been a liberal. Perhaps is because you can't read, or perhaps it's because you can't comprehend, but try just for a bit to realize that: not everyone that has an opinion contrary to yours is a liberal.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » July 22, 2006, 2:35 am

Being anti-genocide doesn't make you a liberal either.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » July 22, 2006, 4:37 am

north americans rarely have a connection to the land because north americans don't have any actual history. a middle eastern muslim can point at a rock and say this is the exact spot that soandso came down from wherever and proclaimed whatever great thing he proclaimed way back whenever that was.

the middle east is the cradle of civilization (haha, it's true) and the birthplace of religion. to not empathize with someone who may consider an area to be holy is tantamount to an religious arab (of any religion) to not give a shit about your agonizing decision over what brand of video card you are going to buy so you can run battlefield 2042. (the answer is nvidia)

Tuddi2 · Post by **Tuddi2** » July 22, 2006, 6:19 am

noel wrote:It's horrible what's happening there, but that's the nature of war. It's not like the terrorists are wearing uniforms and playing by the rules of war. They're dressed like civilians, popping out of civilian houses and firing off unguided rockets. If you're an Israeli citizen, being hit with an unguided rocket is probably not very fun. Lets also remember that northern Israel is full of families, children and elderly people too.

any chance i could get your definition of a terrorist, or someones for that matter ?

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » July 22, 2006, 6:48 am

Tuddi2 wrote:
noel wrote:It's horrible what's happening there, but that's the nature of war. It's not like the terrorists are wearing uniforms and playing by the rules of war. They're dressed like civilians, popping out of civilian houses and firing off unguided rockets. If you're an Israeli citizen, being hit with an unguided rocket is probably not very fun. Lets also remember that northern Israel is full of families, children and elderly people too.
any chance i could get your definition of a terrorist, or someones for that matter ?

Anyone that doesn't wear a giant neon target on their ass when fighting a better trained, better armed and better funded opposition military is a terrorist. Unless they're American Revolutionaries, then they're just patriots.

Fuck, it's so simple, why do people have to keep explaining this?

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 22, 2006, 7:53 am

Metanis wrote:
Nick wrote:Just going by what channel 4 news said in it's evening show.
And you believe everything you see and hear on TV right? I mean those pretty news talkers are really smart and all. They wouldn't say it if it wasn't so would they?

Considering how you take politicians word for gospel.. pot.. kettle.. my fucking god you're black.

As for Israel using highly precision weaponry.. well.. they have taken out more civilian infrastructure and killed more civilians than they have killed enemies. In fact, they seem to have stopped targeting Hezbollah and gone after Lebanese targets instead. That means that they will now pull in the Lebanese army to defend. And granted, that army isn't all that much but it will definitely prolong the war. Some of you might not remember but last time Israel occupied (yes they occupied and they will again, buffer zone my ass) Lebanon it wasn't exactly a cakewalk for them.

If you think this has anything to do with getting their kidnapped soldiers back you are an idiot.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 22, 2006, 9:38 am

Kelshara wrote:
Metanis wrote:
Nick wrote:Just going by what channel 4 news said in it's evening show.
And you believe everything you see and hear on TV right? I mean those pretty news talkers are really smart and all. They wouldn't say it if it wasn't so would they?
Considering how you take politicians word for gospel.. pot.. kettle.. my fucking god you're black.

As for Israel using highly precision weaponry.. well.. they have taken out more civilian infrastructure and killed more civilians than they have killed enemies. In fact, they seem to have stopped targeting Hezbollah and gone after Lebanese targets instead. That means that they will now pull in the Lebanese army to defend. And granted, that army isn't all that much but it will definitely prolong the war. Some of you might not remember but last time Israel occupied (yes they occupied and they will again, buffer zone my ass) Lebanon it wasn't exactly a cakewalk for them.

If you think this has anything to do with getting their kidnapped soldiers back you are an idiot.

You know so much stuff. How could anyone argue with you when you have so much inside info on everything?

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 22, 2006, 9:44 am

How is a single thing I said "inside info"? Please explain to me, Oh Leader of the White People.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » July 22, 2006, 11:18 am

Kelshara wrote:How is a single thing I said "inside info"? Please explain to me, Oh Leader of the White People.

Everything you said was opinion not fact, You are the Webmaster of the Web of Miss information.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » July 22, 2006, 11:33 am

As for Israel using highly precision weaponry.. well.. they have taken out more civilian infrastructure and killed more civilians than they have killed enemies.

Not everything, this is blatantly a fact. Care to disagree?

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 22, 2006, 11:44 am

Cartalas wrote:
Kelshara wrote:How is a single thing I said "inside info"? Please explain to me, Oh Leader of the White People.
Everything you said was opinion not fact, You are the Webmaster of the Web of Miss information.

Fact: Isreal themself said they have killed more than twice as many civilians as enemies.

Fact: Israel has bombed the civilian infrastructure into rubble.

Fact: Israel did NOT have an easy time occupying Lebanon the last time. this has been admitted by Israel themself in the past.

Fact: Bombing Lebanon itself and not Hizbollah in particular has made the Lebanese government mobilize for a defensive war and state they will defend since they have been attacked.

Now what part of that was personal opinion again? Are you going to actually disprove any of it or just run your mouth as usual?

Moonwynd · Post by **Moonwynd** » July 22, 2006, 12:58 pm

Israel is fighting two proxy terrorist nations - Iran and Syria. Iran and Syria are supplying Hezbollah with weapons (missiles/rockets. etc.) and in turn using Lebanon as a pawn/puppet to shoot these weapons into Israel.

Israel...right or wrong...is in a very difficult place now. Hezbollah is funded by an endless supply of money and resources.

Noel is exactly right. There will never be peace in the Middle East. I remember back in high school. I took a class when I was a senior called "Problems of The Modern World". During this time Israel and Egypt were at odds. My very learned teacher told us that even if Israel and Egypt made peace, there would never be peace in the Middle East because of the endless myriad of nations and groups trying to get to the top of the power structure.

War is a tragedy for all of mankind.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 22, 2006, 3:45 pm

Moonwynd wrote:Israel is fighting two proxy terrorist nations - Iran and Syria. Iran and Syria are supplying Hezbollah with weapons (missiles/rockets. etc.) and in turn using Lebanon as a pawn/puppet to shoot these weapons into Israel.

Well Israel of course can just snap their fingers and get weapons from the US like they are doing right now

And I am not going to argue the proxy terrorist nations comment.. but where is the line drawn for this definition? IRA was mostly funded by Americans but not U.S. as a country.. does that make the U.S. a proxy terrorist nation? What with some of the fairly shady unofficial supporting efforts that has happened in South America and other places? If a bomb is dropped from a fighter plane and kills 30 civilians is that not as bad as a bomb carried into 30 civilians?

It is easy to use definitions.. however, unfortunately there are huge grey areas.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » July 22, 2006, 4:37 pm

Moonwynd wrote: Noel is exactly right. There will never be peace in the Middle East...

wtf, I said that ten posts above Noels and even had a cool forest fire analogy!

noel · Post by **noel** » July 22, 2006, 5:41 pm

I know... Let's argue about semantics!

Perhaps it's not a semantic arguement for some of you, so I'll attempt to explain what I meant by the word terrorist...

Hezbollah has been known to take credit for, finance, and plan acts of terrorism. That is to say, acts of war that are carried out in civilian areas by people dressed in plain clothes with the end goal being to create fear, unrest and uncertainty in the civilian population.

The reality is that it isn't the Lebanese army attacking Israel. It's a small group of FREEDOM FIGHTERS (do you actually believe freedom is what they want?) Who don't care about the Lebanese population and are more concerned with taking a shot at Israel and goading them into a larger scale war with Lebanon.

Sadly for Hezbollah, terrorism doesn't work on Israel. It kills a few people sure, but what it really does is piss them off. Sanctions and denouncements don't work on Israel. They just fucking ignore them and whine about being all alone and no one else knows what it's like.

What would probably work would be the US cutting them off, but sadly that will never happen.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » July 22, 2006, 8:03 pm

noel wrote:It's a small group of FREEDOM FIGHTERS (do you actually believe freedom is what they want?)

what do you think they want? you think they just like suicide bombing jews for sport?

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 22, 2006, 8:36 pm

kyoukan wrote:
noel wrote:It's a small group of FREEDOM FIGHTERS (do you actually believe freedom is what they want?)
what do you think they want? you think they just like suicide bombing jews for sport?

Yeah. Give these poor people a chance. They have a history of being peaceful honest people striving for a better future.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » July 22, 2006, 8:42 pm

The Middle East crisis comes down to forced religious beliefs, not freedom.

If the arab countries would just stick to themselves, keep sticking their asses up in the air praying to Allah, and get unfuckingbelievably rich off of western nations by selling their oil, life would be grand.

This holyland business is just gay. The US should go in and wipe every holy structure out in the Middle East. In return, we would destroy the new Statue of Liberty Jesus thingy as soon as it's built. I'd also sacrifice Graceland as a bonus. I'd switch our US currency to read, "In Allah we Trust" if they'd just shut their fucking pieholes and give us reasonably priced oil.

There...no more stupid holyland...then the jews could all move to that long 40 mile wide strip of land the the United States and Canada donate between Canada and Alaska which would be a hell of a lot better than the dirt plot they have right now. Eskimos and Cannucks are a lot easier to deal with than whacko religous fanatics.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » July 22, 2006, 9:18 pm

I get absolutely fucking heartsick when I think about the time I've wasted trying to educate you fucking orangutans.

Despite my best efforts, I think you are actually getting dumber. It is like critical thinking and common sense are somehow repelled from your skulls like some anomalous force of anti-intelligence.

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » July 22, 2006, 9:36 pm

noel wrote:Metanis, contribute useful information or shut the fuck up. I am not, nor have I ever been a liberal. Perhaps is because you can't read, or perhaps it's because you can't comprehend, but try just for a bit to realize that: not everyone that has an opinion contrary to yours is a liberal.

This is not intended just for you Noel, but what's so hard about taking a stand? Look at the statements in your post which I bolded. Now, take a side and support it. Liberals are such pussies about making value judgements. Both the Palestinians and the Israelis have blood on their hands, but one side or the other needs to prevail. It's that fucking simple. But all you overgrown children don't seem to realize that sometimes you need to make choices when the options all appear to be bad. If the world wants to choose the Palestinian side then do it and let's get the Israelis out of there. Peace can be achieved by simply having a victor. In this conflict the victory is going to be determined by world opinion.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » July 22, 2006, 9:50 pm

Metanis wrote: Liberals are such pussies about making value judgements.

Not that I'm a Liberal, but your ability to have firm convictions about shit you don't even have a basic familiarity with, let alone understand, is NOT a trait to be celebrated.

It's simple, you're a religious fanatic with all the strength of conviction of the religious fanatics on the other side.

You have no ability to shift your perspective on a situation at all, so it's truely pointless arguing with you since you can't be wrong.

Fuck you, and your worthless regurgitation of others rhetoric.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » July 22, 2006, 9:54 pm

Great depiction of the difference between many sides.

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » July 23, 2006, 1:02 am

Zaelath wrote:
Metanis wrote: Liberals are such pussies about making value judgements.
Not that I'm a Liberal, but your ability to have firm convictions about shit you don't even have a basic familiarity with, let alone understand, is NOT a trait to be celebrated.

It's simple, you're a religious fanatic with all the strength of conviction of the religious fanatics on the other side.

You have no ability to shift your perspective on a situation at all, so it's truely pointless arguing with you since you can't be wrong.

Fuck you, and your worthless regurgitation of others rhetoric.

I see I struck a nerve.

You seem capable of lashing out, but can you take a stand?

Who should prevail? Israel or Iran?

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » July 23, 2006, 3:13 am

Metanis wrote:
Zaelath wrote:
Metanis wrote: Liberals are such pussies about making value judgements.
Not that I'm a Liberal, but your ability to have firm convictions about shit you don't even have a basic familiarity with, let alone understand, is NOT a trait to be celebrated.

It's simple, you're a religious fanatic with all the strength of conviction of the religious fanatics on the other side.

You have no ability to shift your perspective on a situation at all, so it's truely pointless arguing with you since you can't be wrong.

Fuck you, and your worthless regurgitation of others rhetoric.
I see I struck a nerve.

You seem capable of lashing out, but can you take a stand?

Who should prevail? Israel or Iran?

Iran? Do you mean Lebanon, Palestine, perhaps Syria? Iran don't like Israel to be sure, but if you're going that far afield why don't you just say "the arabs".

Given neither side will "prevail" without complete genocide of the other, well gee Einstein, that would seem to be a no-win situation wouldn't it.

The only strategy that resolves the problem is a withdrawal by the Israelis to go live somewhere else. I would suggest the English transport them all to somewhere equally worthless. Perhaps they can have everything between Green Bay and Madison with some nice areas on the lake, and see how you react.

I know, I know, if it doesn't involve widespread slaughter it's incomprehensible to right-wing "christians". So I will wait with baited breath for your laughter, so like the joyful laughter of retarded children as they play in their own excrement.

Morgrym · Post by **Morgrym** » July 23, 2006, 10:27 am

It's the early stages of what could possibly be WWIII. Shut the fuck up and learn how to fight, we may just steamroll Ireland next.

dibit_eq · Post by **dibit_eq** » July 23, 2006, 1:19 pm

How can any side in that fight be considered "bad" when they're all hell-bent on eradicating each other at any cost? Ok, so one of them uses one type of weapon.... I'm certain their adversaries will devise some equally cruel tactic. It's all a cycle of hatred and revenge and because there's a religion behind each sides "cause" it'll never end until the religion goes away. And religions are notoriously difficult to kill....

Nick · Post by **Nick** » July 23, 2006, 1:26 pm

I'll start shivering about the US invading Ireland the day it dawns on them that no you aren't Irish and never were (and never will be - despite all that guinness you drink). (and that the Irish don't really give two shits about them and their love for us).

I.e - never.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 23, 2006, 1:40 pm

kyoukan wrote:
noel wrote:It's a small group of FREEDOM FIGHTERS (do you actually believe freedom is what they want?)
what do you think they want? you think they just like suicide bombing jews for sport?

I think they want their land back and they want to destroy Israel. What do you think they want?

noel · Post by **noel** » July 23, 2006, 1:43 pm

Metanis wrote:Now, take a side and support it.

The side I'm taking is that there can never be peace in the middle East and it's a waste of our time to try.

Metanis wrote:Liberals are such pussies about making value judgements.

I'm quite sure you believe that, but it's an utterly ridiculous statement.

dibit_eq · Post by **dibit_eq** » July 23, 2006, 11:12 pm

Nick wrote:I'll start shivering about the US invading Ireland the day it dawns on them that there might be oil there

fixed.

Seriously... like the current regime here in the US cares about anywhere that wont make them mad cash off the oil, amirite?

CaRn the Cleric · Post by **CaRn the Cleric** » July 24, 2006, 2:32 am

Zaelath wrote:
Tuddi2 wrote:
noel wrote:It's horrible what's happening there, but that's the nature of war. It's not like the terrorists are wearing uniforms and playing by the rules of war. They're dressed like civilians, popping out of civilian houses and firing off unguided rockets. If you're an Israeli citizen, being hit with an unguided rocket is probably not very fun. Lets also remember that northern Israel is full of families, children and elderly people too.
any chance i could get your definition of a terrorist, or someones for that matter ?
Anyone that doesn't wear a giant neon target on their ass when fighting a better trained, better armed and better funded opposition military is a terrorist. Unless they're American Revolutionaries, then they're just patriots.

Fuck, it's so simple, why do people have to keep explaining this?

he who wins the war gets to write the history!

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » July 24, 2006, 3:26 am

Metanis wrote:
noel wrote:Metanis, contribute useful information or shut the fuck up. I am not, nor have I ever been a liberal. Perhaps is because you can't read, or perhaps it's because you can't comprehend, but try just for a bit to realize that: not everyone that has an opinion contrary to yours is a liberal.
This is not intended just for you Noel, but what's so hard about taking a stand? Look at the statements in your post which I bolded. Now, take a side and support it. Liberals are such pussies about making value judgements. Both the Palestinians and the Israelis have blood on their hands, but one side or the other needs to prevail. It's that fucking simple. But all you overgrown children don't seem to realize that sometimes you need to make choices when the options all appear to be bad. If the world wants to choose the Palestinian side then do it and let's get the Israelis out of there. Peace can be achieved by simply having a victor. In this conflict the victory is going to be determined by world opinion.

if that jew were smart he'd be hiding behind the baby too

all i have to add is that "proportional response" is the biggest fucking joke i have ever heard.

Deward · Post by **Deward** » July 24, 2006, 11:52 am

Winnow wrote:The Middle East crisis comes down to forced religious beliefs, not freedom.

If the arab countries would just stick to themselves, keep sticking their asses up in the air praying to Allah, and get unfuckingbelievably rich off of western nations by selling their oil, life would be grand.

I agree with you here Winnow. The problem is that while religious leaders could bring about peace, it won't happen because then their "flocks" might start looking elsewhere for thigns to better themselves, like maybe an education. The oil companies love the strife because it means they can charge more for oil and keep more of the profits.

There will never be peace in the Middle East while there is oil there. I just hope America doesn't get pulled in any more than it already is. Sadly the idiots that Metaniz and Midnyte voted for will probably get bored after soem duck hunting and decide to start WWIII.

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » July 24, 2006, 12:44 pm

Deward wrote: There will never be peace in the Middle East while there is oil there. I just hope America doesn't get pulled in any more than it already is. Sadly the idiots that Metaniz and Midnyte voted for will probably get bored after soem duck hunting and decide to start WWIII.

Oil?

The middle east has had holy wars since way, way before oil came into the picture. As long as muslims, christians & jews have a burnin' desire to live & control their ancient homeland, there wil be no peace. This is where most westerners totally miss the boat as far as a basic understanding of what the underlying reasons for all this conflict are. These people have a very, very, very, very , very, VERY good understanding of their histories, and there entire way of existance revolves TOTALLY around it, especially in the case of muslim society.
Even if you nuked Jerusalem, you would have the same groups going to war over a crater in the ground.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » July 24, 2006, 1:26 pm

Oil is the reason for fighting in many parts of the Middle East... but as Skogen pointed out... not Israel.

Because each religion in question is an Abrahamic religion, believe they decended from Abraham it is each's Holy Land. Add to that the fact that each religion also believes that significant things happend to their Prophet or Deity there and you have issues...

It is interesting to note though that the Muslim controlled Jeruslem was a pretty peaceful place before the Crusades where people of all faiths came to worship, it was also a pretty peaceful place after the Crusades until the 1940s...

I'm sorry, I have friends over in Israel who I worry about every time a bomb goes off but at the same time I have to be conscience of the fact that it wouldn't matter what religion I was, if my family had owned and worked land for over 1000 years then all of a sudden a bunch of countries from the other side of the world told me it wasn't mine anymore... I'd be pissed too and in turn probably pass that along to my children...

When I was a child I always heard that the "end times" were upon us because you couldn't get to Armaggedon without Israel being a Nation again. I often wonder if that is much of the cause of this and the creation of the Israeli State. I do know that is a big part in the support of Israel for many fundamentalist Chrisitans... Most of my life I've studied a lot of Biblical Prophecy looking for those end times, are they upon us? quite possibly, it says we will know the signs, which is what everyone is "looking" for... However it also talks a great deal about not worrying about when that time is and that no one knows the exact time (not even the Angels in Heaven). I'm tell you guys that because a few years ago I felt like I was being called to quit looking...

I truly believe that God put us here for a reason. While it's easy to get caught up in the excitement of the "end times" or wondering if by supporting a war or not we are somehow pushing God's timeline forward... it's honestly inappropriate on many levels. First of all, we are here for a reason, trying to minipulate God is not one of those. Secondly, in doing so we often forget the main reason we are here... to take care of one another. Rather than wondering if Bush's wars are going to hasten the Second Coming we should instead be worrying how to care for all the people Bush's wars have left homeless, parentless and destitute... I doubt I'll ever reach any fundies with that message but it's what's on my heart... so I spoke it.

Marb