Tour de France stage discussions

Truant · Post by **Truant** » July 20, 2006, 2:54 am

I don't think anyone is going to win this year!

noel · Post by **noel** » July 20, 2006, 9:01 am

Well, Floyd is on the attack from the getgo. If he can somehow do this and survive, I'll be amazed, but this Tour has been batshit insane so there's a sliver of a chance he can pull this off.

Amazing, he caught the break which has 6 minutes on the peloton... Crazy.

Edit: holy fuck, he's the virtual maillot jaune

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 20, 2006, 11:05 am

heh sad thing is.. the more I watch how pretty much every rider has bad days this year the more I consider certain former riders as dopers

*ducks and runs from Noel*

Crazy couple of stages though.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 20, 2006, 11:07 am

I hope you're not saying that this is a 'clean' tour.

I've actually considered that this tour is a demonstration of the quality of the domestiques... how good the men who ride for Ullrich, Basso, Valverde, etc. are.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 20, 2006, 11:54 am

So fucking glad Kloden dropped. I'm so sick of T-mobile's shitty tactics where they chase down their own teammates if their names aren't Ullrich or Kloden...

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 20, 2006, 11:57 am

Eh that tactic is not new and not limited to T-Mobile. Look at what Moreau and his team are doing. Heck a few years back two riders who were competing for the stage win turned around and rode the opposite direction to help their captain.

Props to Pereiro Sio btw heh. Damn he is fighting hard.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 20, 2006, 12:01 pm

What an incredible ride by Pereiro...

I cannot fucking believe this...

Landis is writing his own legend. That's honestly one of the most impressive things I've seen in cycling ever.

General classification after stage 17

Code: Select all

1 Oscar Pereiro (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne-Illes Balears                  80.08.49
2 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Team CSC                                            0.11
3 Floyd Landis (USA) Phonak                                               0.31
4 Andreas Klöden (Ger) T-Mobile                                           2.29
5 Cadel Evans (Aus) Davitamon-Lotto                                       3.08
6 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank                                            4.14
7 Cyril Dessel (Fra) AG2R-Prevoyance                                      4.24
8 Christophe Moreau (Fra) AG2R-Prevoyance                                 5.45
9 Haimar Zubeldia (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi                                 8.16

Floyd can win this shit in the final TT!

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 20, 2006, 12:18 pm

38 seconds between Top 3. I do not think they will wait until Saturday, I feel they will have to attack again tomorrow.

Fun!

noel · Post by **noel** » July 20, 2006, 12:25 pm

Watching the after interview with Floyd... Frankie just asked him how much this stage win means to him since it's his first.

Floyd's response was... It's great, but I'm telling you, I'm here to win the whole race!

Truant · Post by **Truant** » July 20, 2006, 6:55 pm

holy shit. Today's stage was amazing in all the opposite ways of yesterday's!

I guess Landis was just broken mentally yesterday, in my mind I was wondering whether he had reached the end of the rope physically...but he squelched that today. Absofuckinglutely amazing ride by Landis today. Hats off to a rediculously ballsy effort.

You were spot on with your assertion that this tour has been batshit insane!

noel · Post by **noel** » July 20, 2006, 7:40 pm

Thought some of you might find this interesting:

Who is Floyd Landis?
By Robbie Ventura

Woven into the threads that make Floyd Landis who he is are the characteristics that make everyday people leaders, heroes and champions. Hard work, commitment, dedication, simplicity and sacrifice are all qualities fostered by his parents and their Mennonite community and those that laid the foundation for the excellence that cycling fans now see.

Floyd spent time as a youngster testing the boundaries of bicycles and all that can be done with them. He was often seen riding wheelies, no handed, up hill and loving it. Having perfected his bike handling skills, he had intrinsic abilities to read and react to situations on the bike. He started racing his mountain bike in the areas surrounding his home in Pennsylvania and quickly realized there might be more to it.

This love of riding spurred his interest in racing and Floyd journeyed outside the safety and structure of his Mennonite family and community in Pennsylvania into the world of bike racing and the greater world as we know it. He headed out west to race his mountain bike professionally. Then one day Floyd decided to go to a road race.

Race fans will find it interesting that Floyd was unable to get an elite level road racing license for his first road race since he had only raced mountain bikes at that level, and had no proof of what he could do on a road bike. This particular race had a staggered start, beginning with the elite riders, and following with categories two through five, in that order. So Floyd was sent off with that last group of the race (Cat 5’s). He road his way through all categories, winning not only the category five race but the Elite race as well. Little did he know, he was just scratching the surface.

He began his professional road racing career in 1999, and each year has reached a new level in his racing, this season being his best of all time. He has raced for Mercury Professional Racing Team and United States Postal Service Pro Cycling Team prior to his current role with Phonak Professional Racing Team.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » July 20, 2006, 10:46 pm

haha that's awesome.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 21, 2006, 9:34 am

Floyd's coach just said he took SEVENTY water bottles from the car yesterday.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 21, 2006, 10:25 am

Yeah they should take his ride and put it in the book as the perfect ride. He ate a lot. He drank a lot. He used a lot of water to cool himself down. He always carried an extra water bottle in his hand while riding just to have extra water. And he kept a constant look on his pulse meter to make sure he kept a good pace without exploding.

Funny, because the day before could be put in the book as "Worse disaster ever".

Another funny note is that a Norwegian reporter was the only one who wanted to talk to Landis yesterday morning. So after the ride Landis pointed to him and allowed him to interview him since he had appreciated it so much heh.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 22, 2006, 12:47 pm

Scoreboard!

After 7 years of American domination in the Tour...

The French have to be ecstatic with this result!

Grats to Floyd. Well deserved. Awesome ride by Oscar as well!

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 22, 2006, 12:55 pm

It is kind of funny that you bash the French when you yourself in the past have agreed with me when I said that Lance is not hated among the general public heh. I personally have nothing against Landis winning (even though I was hoping for Pereiro to be honest). I hate Lance, not Americans

That said.. I honestly expected Landis to win today. In fact am a bit disappointed. Pereiro did the TT of his life, and Kloden was very impressive as well.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 22, 2006, 3:50 pm

Kelshara wrote:It is kind of funny that you bash the French when you yourself in the past have agreed with me when I said that Lance is not hated among the general public heh. I personally have nothing against Landis winning (even though I was hoping for Pereiro to be honest). I hate Lance, not Americans

That said.. I honestly expected Landis to win today. In fact am a bit disappointed. Pereiro did the TT of his life, and Kloden was very impressive as well.

Lol, I pulled an 'Armstrong'. I was specifically referring to ASO and Jean-Marie Leblanc who, at this year's tour route presentation talked about ending the stranglehold that Armstrong had on the tour, and never even showed a picture of him in the presentation (unheard of). I have no problem with people hating on Lance, but you have to admit that just the spectacle alone of him attempting his seventh tour caused a lot of people to pay attention to cycling. ASO and Jean-Marie made a lot of money on the shoulders of Armstrong, and given all he accomplished in their race it should have been acknowledged.

I work with a lot of French people... if I told you the company name you'd understand why more than most. I definitely have no issue with the French people as a whole. Sorry for the way I worded that.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 22, 2006, 4:05 pm

eh I don't really care. I just find it sad that so many people bash the French when I have come to love the country and the people from visitting. Especially when those same people get all huffy-puffy if you make fun of the U.S. as a whole for something a few people did.

And now I expect to be bashed for saying I love France!

That said, I will say again that Pereiro was damn impressive. He truly showed a lot of heart, not just today but during the entire Tour. I will remember how he gave everything he had on the day he lost the yellow jersey on the last kilometers even though he KNEW he would lose it earlier in the Tour. Can't remember the stage though.. in fact everyone who has had the yellow have given it all. Even Boonen on the Time Trial gave everything he had instead of resting like most sprinters did. That shows class.

It has been an interesting Tour to say the least. And no, I do not think it is dope free. I do think it is cleaner though than it has been in a while. Imo it is a good thing to see the riders actually get tired and bottom out.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 23, 2006, 1:39 pm

Haha... Chapeau Thor!

That was an incredible turn of speed by Thor to win today... When they were already doing 46MPH!

Grats again to Floyd. Hope his hip surgery goes well so he can come back and defend.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » July 23, 2006, 3:04 pm

This just in:
Amstel has been added to the list of banned substances!

What a crazy crazy tour

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 23, 2006, 3:26 pm

Yeah that finish was pretty amazing. Knew he would give it all today since the Tour has been a disappointment for him, but I didn't think he would crush McEwen that badly as dominating as he had been. Was interesting, McEwen went sooner than he usually does and it seemed to take some others by surprise. Of course two of the worse opponents were out of the Tour.. Guess Thor is the first to win the first and last stage of the Tour as well heh.

Anyhow, been an interesting Tour for sure. Hopefully they keep working against doping and it will be interesting again next year.

Btw Noel.. any idea why Tom Danielson wasn't part of the Disco team?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » July 23, 2006, 4:06 pm

Kelshara wrote: And now I expect to be bashed for saying I love France!

The French are a bunch of arrogant assholes. There can be only one country like that and the U.S. gets that honor. Although Boris Diaw is one of the nicest, friendliest NBA players I've ever seen play/interviewed extensively. It's messing with my head.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 23, 2006, 4:15 pm

Kelshara wrote:Btw Noel.. any idea why Tom Danielson wasn't part of the Disco team?

The only thing I can think of is that they're still building him up maybe getting him more used to the European pro-peloton. He rode in support of Savodelli in the Giro, so perhaps his recovery wasn't where they wanted it to be? Also, I think the roster that they went with with the exception of Egoi Martinez was really their veteran Grand Tour team.

I know they had a poll on thepaceline.com (Disco's fansite) that was something to the effect of: which Disco rider are you most looking forward to seeing in the TdF? Danielson was an overwhelming first choice.

Probably we'll see him there next year.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » July 27, 2006, 10:46 am

http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news?slug=af ... &type=lgns

PARIS (AFP) - Mystery surrounds the whereabouts of American Tour de France champion Floyd Landis following his withdrawal from two races in the Netherlands and Denmark.

The ANP Dutch news agency said Landis pulled out of a race in Chaam on Wednesday evening after medical advice but this reason for not appearing was not confirmed by race organisers.

Agent John van den Akker, who organised Landis's appearance at the race said he was annoyed by the situation. "We have tried to contact Floyd and his manager but we have not been able to," van den Akker told ANP.

"We are very annoyed. We have invested a lot of money (to ensure his appearance) and we would have expected some kind of explanation."

It was also discovered that Landis would not be coming to Thursday's Grand Prix Jyske Bank race, the Danish organisers said in a statement.

"It is with great regret that we announce Floyd Landis will not be appearing in the race," Danish organisers said.

Landis did show top form however to win the Stiphout criterium in the Netherlands on Tuesday night.

The news of Landis's disappearance comes after the International Cycling Union (UCI) announced a rider in the Tour de France had failed a doping test.

Neither the identity of the rider nor the date the test was conducted were released by the sport's governing body. If the case is confirmed it would be the first doping case from the race.

However the rider who failed the test is not French or German after both of the country's cycling federations denied they had received notification of the test result from the UCI.

The UCI said on Wednesday they had sent the result to the federation of the cyclist concerned but FFC president Jean Pitallier told AFP: "We have received nothing from the UCI."

And a German cycling federation (BDR) spokesman said: "We have received nothing from the UCI whether it is by post or email."

On Wednesday, the UCI said in a statement: "The adverse analytical finding received this morning relates to the first analysis, and will have to be confirmed either by a counter-analysis required by the rider, or by the fact that the rider renounces to that counter analysis.

"The World Anti-doping Code and the Anti-doping Rules of the UCI do not allow to make the name of the concerned rider public, as well as other information that may allow identification."

The test was carried out by France's national anti-doping laboratory at Chatenay-Malabry.

This year's Tour was rocked by a drugs scandal on the eve of the race which saw 13 riders, including pre-race favourites Jan Ullrich and Ivan Basso, barred from taking part after they were implicated in a Spanish blood-doping ring.

It was the latest in a series of high-profile drugs controversies to tarnish cycling over the past decade, with the Tour de France being particularly hard hit.

Suspicious hmm!

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » July 27, 2006, 11:34 am

Nick wrote:

http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news?slug=af ... &type=lgns

PARIS (AFP) - Mystery surrounds the whereabouts of American Tour de France champion Floyd Landis following his withdrawal from two races in the Netherlands and Denmark.

The ANP Dutch news agency said Landis pulled out of a race in Chaam on Wednesday evening after medical advice but this reason for not appearing was not confirmed by race organisers.

Agent John van den Akker, who organised Landis's appearance at the race said he was annoyed by the situation. "We have tried to contact Floyd and his manager but we have not been able to," van den Akker told ANP.

"We are very annoyed. We have invested a lot of money (to ensure his appearance) and we would have expected some kind of explanation."

It was also discovered that Landis would not be coming to Thursday's Grand Prix Jyske Bank race, the Danish organisers said in a statement.

"It is with great regret that we announce Floyd Landis will not be appearing in the race," Danish organisers said.

Landis did show top form however to win the Stiphout criterium in the Netherlands on Tuesday night.

The news of Landis's disappearance comes after the International Cycling Union (UCI) announced a rider in the Tour de France had failed a doping test.

Neither the identity of the rider nor the date the test was conducted were released by the sport's governing body. If the case is confirmed it would be the first doping case from the race.

However the rider who failed the test is not French or German after both of the country's cycling federations denied they had received notification of the test result from the UCI.

The UCI said on Wednesday they had sent the result to the federation of the cyclist concerned but FFC president Jean Pitallier told AFP: "We have received nothing from the UCI."

And a German cycling federation (BDR) spokesman said: "We have received nothing from the UCI whether it is by post or email."

On Wednesday, the UCI said in a statement: "The adverse analytical finding received this morning relates to the first analysis, and will have to be confirmed either by a counter-analysis required by the rider, or by the fact that the rider renounces to that counter analysis.

"The World Anti-doping Code and the Anti-doping Rules of the UCI do not allow to make the name of the concerned rider public, as well as other information that may allow identification."

The test was carried out by France's national anti-doping laboratory at Chatenay-Malabry.

This year's Tour was rocked by a drugs scandal on the eve of the race which saw 13 riders, including pre-race favourites Jan Ullrich and Ivan Basso, barred from taking part after they were implicated in a Spanish blood-doping ring.

It was the latest in a series of high-profile drugs controversies to tarnish cycling over the past decade, with the Tour de France being particularly hard hit.

Suspicious hmm!

Maybe its because he was doping http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/10591.0.html

Vaemas · Post by **Vaemas** » July 27, 2006, 11:46 am

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_s ... 221122.stm

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/m ... index.html

All I can say is WTF?

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » July 27, 2006, 12:45 pm

wow just wow

Post by **Sylvus** » July 27, 2006, 12:48 pm

So he is a cheater?

What happens now, do they strip him of his TdF win?

Ashur · Post by **Ashur** » July 27, 2006, 12:55 pm

The best part about watching The Ocho is all the drama programming.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » July 27, 2006, 1:09 pm

Cycling is the new Wrestling.

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » July 27, 2006, 1:20 pm

Sorry if anyone interpreted my surprise as something that lacked utter dripping sarcasm...

Every major sport is riddled with cheaters... probably more then 70% in every sport reguardless of testing

edit to add- and I dont give 2 shits

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » July 27, 2006, 1:36 pm

Man, what a joke of a sport cycling appears from the viewpoint of your typical non cycling fan that has been forced to read all of these headlines over the past few years.

At this point, they should just say to hell with it and allow doping and drugs as it seems there hasn't been a clean winner in more than a decade.

Ashur · Post by **Ashur** » July 27, 2006, 2:47 pm

Winnow wrote:At this point, they should just say to hell with it and allow doping and drugs as it seems there hasn't been a clean winner in more than a decade.

Said it before, will say it again. Bring on the freaks!

noel · Post by **noel** » July 27, 2006, 3:32 pm

Fuck Pro cycling.

I've had my fill. Not really because of this particular incident, but just the string of incidents and useless testing, useless positives, useless negatives and bullshit accusations. As a fan, you can never know what's what and it's fucking bullshit.

Edit: Yeah Sylvus. Grats Oscar Periero TdF win pending Landis' B Sample being tested.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 27, 2006, 3:39 pm

As much as this sucks.. and as much as it taints Oscar's win.. damn.. he deserves it (IF the B sample test is positive as well). I truly enjoyed watching him ride and how he gave everything he had even on stages where he had no chance to win or even keep the jersey.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 27, 2006, 3:54 pm

I don't think it taints Oscar's win if Floyd was cheating. It's funny really... I didn't hear about this until a few hours after the story broke because I was too busy out riding my bike.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » July 27, 2006, 5:12 pm

noel wrote:I don't think it taints Oscar's win if Floyd was cheating. It's funny really... I didn't hear about this until a few hours after the story broke because I was too busy out riding my bike.

Did you dope up first?

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 27, 2006, 5:24 pm

noel wrote:I don't think it taints Oscar's win if Floyd was cheating.

I am willing to bet that Oscar would much rather have won without this happening. It does take some away when you win due to disqualifications, injuries etc.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 27, 2006, 5:26 pm

Cartalas wrote:
noel wrote:I don't think it taints Oscar's win if Floyd was cheating. It's funny really... I didn't hear about this until a few hours after the story broke because I was too busy out riding my bike.

Did you dope up first?

I had crepes for breakfast. Does that count?

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » July 27, 2006, 5:32 pm

noel wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
noel wrote:I don't think it taints Oscar's win if Floyd was cheating. It's funny really... I didn't hear about this until a few hours after the story broke because I was too busy out riding my bike.

Did you dope up first?
I had crepes for breakfast. Does that count?

Your Clean!!!! Race on

Post by **Sylvus** » July 27, 2006, 6:06 pm

I can't believe it took me this long to realize why they called it cycling.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » July 27, 2006, 6:14 pm

My money woud be on Noel to beat all of these "pro" cyclists in a clean race. Right now, he's reverse-doping by sucking in all the smoggy air in California. As soon as he got to a race location that had clean air, it would be almost like doping up for the race.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 27, 2006, 6:54 pm

LOL. Leave it to you guys to cheer me up. This newest bullshit really bummed me out when I heard about it, so I appreciate it.

PS Winnow, the smog sucks ass when you ride in it for long periods of time. You come in from outside, and if you inhale a huge breath, you can't help but cough. =\

Edit: You knew it was coming:

Landis denies

Floyd Landis has broken his silence about his high T/E ratio that could cost him the Tour de France, as well as hammering cycling's already battered image. Landis, who has requested a B sample analysis to confirm his A test, told Sports Illustrated, that he "can't be hopeful" that the B sample will be any different than the A. "I'm a realist," he added.

But even if the B sample confirms the A result, Landis is not necessarily guilty of taking an illegal performance enhancing drug to boost his testosterone. Some riders can prove that they have an elevated Testosterone/Epitestosterone (T:E) level, if they undergo an endocrine test performed by a credible doctor. Landis said he will use Spanish doctor Luis Hernández, who has helped other riders prove a high T:E count. "In hundreds of cases," Landis told SI, "no one's ever lost one."

In 1999, Colombian rider Santiago Botero was able to prove his elevated testosterone levels (over four times the allowed limit) were natural. His doctor at the time was Kelme's Dr Eufemiano Fuentes.

Landis is looking for other answers too. He is allowed to take cortisone for his degenerating right hip, although he said during the Tour that he had only had a couple of injections this year. But he also told SI that he'd been taking daily doses of a thyroid hormone to treat a thyroid condition. Even if either of these can explain his high T:E ratio, Landis realises that it will be hard to convince people. "I wouldn't hold it against somebody if they don't believe me," he said.

Others have looked at explanations such as the beer Landis had the night before his stage 17 exploit, citing a study in the American Association for Clinical Chemistry ( Vol 34, 1462-1464, 1988) by Swedish researchers O Falk, E Palonek and I Bjorkhem. In it, they investigated the effects of the ingestion of between 110-160 g of ethanol (2 g/kg bodyweight). They showed that it "increased the ratio between testosterone and epitestosterone in urine from 1.14 +/- 0.07 to 1.52 +/- 0.09 in four healthy male volunteers. The increase ranged from 30% to 90% in the different subjects studied (mean 41%). In cases where doping with testosterone is suspected, the possibility should be considered that at least part of an observed increased testosterone/epitestosterone ratio in urine is ascribable to previous ingestion of ethanol."

As a caveat, Landis was quoted at the time as saying that he'd only had one beer. A pint of normal strength beer generally doesn't contain more than 20 g of alcohol - a much lower level than was studied by the Swedish researchers.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » July 27, 2006, 9:46 pm

My favorite stage is the one where you get all the free smack.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » July 27, 2006, 10:12 pm

For once i agree with Winnow

My money woud be on Noel to beat all of these "pro" cyclists in a clean race. Right now, he's reverse-doping by sucking in all the smoggy air in California. As soon as he got to a race location that had clean air, it would be almost like doping up for the race.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 28, 2006, 12:21 am

MP3 of Floyd's interview with the press:
http://www.velonews.com/media/Landis.mp3

Siji · Post by **Siji** » July 28, 2006, 4:17 pm

For the TdF 2007 they'll keep all the riders isolated in a high security compound with video cameras monitoring their every movement for the whole race. They'll even hire George Bush's poop patrol to gather fecal samples - just to be sure.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 29, 2006, 5:50 pm

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=5587194.

Very interesting listen. Apparently it's not that Floyd's testosterone level was high and caused the elevated T:E (testosterone to epitestosterone) ratio it was instead that his epitestosterone level was low. This casts a very interesting light on the scenario. The test he failed was designed to detect an abnormal ratio that was caused by a higher than normal testosterone level which could indicate that he was using some form of performance enhancer. If it's true that he didn't have an elevated testosterone level than that changes the entire thing.

Remember that what's in question is not the individual levels, but instead the ratio.

Very interesting indeed.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 29, 2006, 7:34 pm

heh was reported here that the ratio was 11:1. If that is true then it is insane.

B sample test please!

noel · Post by **noel** » July 30, 2006, 4:32 am

Right, but if it's 11:1 because the epitestosterone is super low, that's a whole different can of worms. You wouldn't lower any hormone level to enhance performance. I wish I didn't even have to think about this shit.