So....

[Nick]

After the news of US servicemen raping Iraqi women, Abu Ghraib, Falujah, the various other massacres previously reported, 100,000 (minimum) innocent people killed by US bombings etc etc etc

Is this the USA's idea of liberation from an oppressor?

[Spang]

[Nick]

Fuck up and fuck off.

[Spang]

[Canelek]

After the news of US servicemen raping Iraqi women, Abu Ghraib, Falujah, the various other massacres previously reported, 100,000 (minimum) innocent people killed by US bombings etc etc etc

Is this the USA's idea of liberation from an oppressor?

Not really fair to pin US servicemen/women en masse. Not sure of the details of this particular incident, but pretty much all of the enlisted folks I know are on the level.

[Animalor]

This, sir, was fucking funny.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

After the news of US servicemen raping Iraqi women, Abu Ghraib, Falujah, the various other massacres previously reported, 100,000 (minimum) innocent people killed by US bombings etc etc etc

Is this the USA's idea of liberation from an oppressor?

Not really fair to pin US servicemen/women en masse. Not sure of the details of this particular incident, but pretty much all of the enlisted folks I know are on the level.

Yup. What he is doing is no different than watching the 11pm news and then saying all blacks are murders and criminals. What is going to be done about them damn blackies?

[Canelek]

After the news of US servicemen raping Iraqi women, Abu Ghraib, Falujah, the various other massacres previously reported, 100,000 (minimum) innocent people killed by US bombings etc etc etc

Is this the USA's idea of liberation from an oppressor?

Not really fair to pin US servicemen/women en masse. Not sure of the details of this particular incident, but pretty much all of the enlisted folks I know are on the level.

Yup. What he is doing is no different than watching the 11pm news and then saying all blacks are murders and criminals. What is going to be done about them damn blackies?

Do you read your own posts? That is pretty much along the lines of what you do, you blathering dolt.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

After the news of US servicemen raping Iraqi women, Abu Ghraib, Falujah, the various other massacres previously reported, 100,000 (minimum) innocent people killed by US bombings etc etc etc

Is this the USA's idea of liberation from an oppressor?

Not really fair to pin US servicemen/women en masse. Not sure of the details of this particular incident, but pretty much all of the enlisted folks I know are on the level.

Yup. What he is doing is no different than watching the 11pm news and then saying all blacks are murders and criminals. What is going to be done about them damn blackies?

Do you read your own posts? That is pretty much along the lines of what you do, you blathering dolt.

No. It's what I get accused of doing. Just like what you have just done. You blathering dolt.

[Sylvus]

Yup. What he is doing is no different than watching the 11pm news and then saying all blacks are murders and criminals. What is going to be done about them damn blackies?

Well, it's not no different than lumping all people of a certain race together, though I wouldn't really expect you to understand. You're not at all racist though, you just see the bigger picture and like to push our buttons, you rascal. "All blacks" merely share a common locality of origin in the upper branches of their family tree, whereas people who choose to join the armed forces probably share a lot of similar personality traits.

It takes a little something different in your brain to volunteer for a low-paying job that gives you the opportunity to shoot people and puts you in the position of the risk of death on a daily basis. I have no numbers to back it up, but I have heard (anecdotally) that divorce rates among police officers (a close enough line of work) are higher than among the rest of the population. I've always attributed that to people being wired a little differently to want to become a cop in the first place, and that difference could make it more difficult to maintain relationships. Similarly in soldiers, their difference might make them more prone to committing acts that you and I would find atrocious. And, as they say, war is hell.

That said, I'm in 100% agreement that it's a small fraction of the majority of servicepeople that commit these acts, and that it's a bit unfair to lump all of them together, though it doesn't really appear that Nick made any sweeping generalizations about all members of the military.

[Deward]

I spent nine years in the military and I never had the urge to rape and murder anyone. I didn't join looking to commit atrocities either. I also knew very very few people during my service that I would consider to be criminally minded. The military is not an easy job and anyone who joins will learn responsibility and mature in a good way. Unfortuantely, unscrupulous politicians force the mostly honorable military into stupid situations. An 11 year old girl was just allegedly raped by a bunch of college students. Does that make all college students have a rapist mindset?

There are fucked up types in ALL jobs. A few nutjobs does not make the whole population the same.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Durrrrrr. I don't get it. Durrrr.

[Canelek]

Durrrrrr. I don't get it. Durrrr.

That is one of the truer statements that you have ever made here.

...

Will this quote work for your 'repeater' comeback?

[Sendarie]

I'm 11 years active duty now with several tours in the sand.

If these guys did what is accused I hope they skip the rotting in jail part and go straight to the lethal injection.
Including the guy that did not report it or try to stop it. Anyone involved in an act like that makes me want to turn the key myself.

I understand what its like to be surrounded by nothing but other males and have no physical contact for months on end but I thats why they sell Jergens (aka Jerkins) and KY + Maxim (no dirty mags in theater). That sure as fuck doesnt give anyone a right to do something like this.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

Similarly in soldiers, their difference might make them more prone to committing acts that you and I would find atrocious. And, as they say, war is hell.

That said, I'm in 100% agreement that it's a small fraction of the majority of servicepeople that commit these acts, and that it's a bit unfair to lump all of them together, though it doesn't really appear that Nick made any sweeping generalizations about all members of the military.

It is also fact that blacks commit homicides at a much higher rate than whites. Is there something wired in them that makes them more violent?

Anytime you throw 50,000 people into an area and they are all part of the same "team", there are going to be at least a small percentage of them making trouble and doing shit they should be jailed for. Of course, our media sensationalizes everything and pushes it in your face. Do you seriously think these things did not happen in WW 1 and WW 2? Get fucking real.

[Sendarie]

Also for Sylvus.

A lot of us join for many different reasons. For example I know one kid who grew up in the sticks of North Dakota. Not the brightest bulb in the box but a damn fine kid and hard worker. His options were to follow daddy and work on a farm the rest of his life or join the military.
Many who arent quite smart or athletic enough to get full ride scholarships from lower income families come in b/c of the free college.

And some like myself come in for a free ticket around the world. Of my 11 years 8 and change have been spent in countries other than the US.

It takes a little something different in your brain to volunteer for a low-paying job

For quite a few of the people I know the military is FAR from a low paying job. Considering some of them come straight out of the grocery bag line or "Welcome to Taco Bell may I take your order".

From those that I know you will rarely find a larger group of people that only wish for no more wars as long as we live.

A new poll came out today on CNN with 46% of the people in favor of the US preemptively attacking North Korea. I damn well guarantee you none of those were from US military. I cant even imagine the cost in lives we would pay for that one aka Vietnam 2.0.

[Sylvus]

It is also fact that blacks commit homicides at a much higher rate than whites. Is there something wired in them that makes them more violent?

I don't know about that, but I think it's probably a topic for a different conversation. The point I was trying to make was that making a generalization about a group of people who share common ancestry and making a generalization about a group of people who choose to participate in the same activity is not the same thing. I think it's an invalid correlation to even be discussing them in the same breath.

But again, I think Nick's original message was less about making generalizations about our troops, and more about talking shit about our country. You guys should go after him for that!

For quite a few of the people I know the military is FAR from a low paying job. Considering some of them come straight out of the grocery bag line or "Welcome to Taco Bell may I take your order".

I probably didn't qualify that statement well enough, "low-paying" was in the risk vs. reward sense, not in the overall compensation level. Obviously there are different reasons people have for joining the military or the police force. For some, the amount of money they'll make is high enough in comparison to other potential jobs that the reward is worth the risk. Others join out of patriotism or to build their character or a myriad of other reasons. But for some it's about the power, imo probably at a higher rate in those professions than in many others. If the things I've read about the motivation for rapes and crimes of that nature are true, it's more about power than it is sex.

At any rate, I'm not trying to paint the military in a negative light. As with any group, there are good eggs and bad eggs, and for the most part they are a group of people whose sacrifices I respect and service I'm thankful for. I only entered the thread because of Midnyte's track record with being an ignorant halfwit and to state my opinion that a generalization based on choices people make is more valid (not valid, but some > none) than a generalization based on the color of their skin.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

my opinion that a generalization based on choices people make is more valid (not valid, but some > none) than a generalization based on the color of their skin.

You could saved a lot of time and just typed that then. There is your opinion. Covered in 300 other words of accusation and bullshit. You point, is wrong. There are many reasons people choose to enter the military. You cannot pigeon hole them all. My assertion that blanket generalizations like race and this, holds up. It is wrong to blanket generalize something that a small faction of a large group do.

[Zaelath]

It is also fact that blacks commit homicides at a much higher rate than whites. Is there something wired in them that makes them more violent?

It's a fact that blacks are *convicted* of committing homicide at a much higher rate than whites.

Whites tend to a) get away with it more, b) do it in greater numbers; see: Bush, G. W.

Ok, the Bush part is opinion, but your "fact" is no more than a "statistic". Feel free ask an adult the difference.

[Sylvus]

You point, is wrong.

Nuh uh.

[Bubba Grizz]

...but your "fact" is no more than a "statistic". Feel free ask an adult the difference.

I'm an adult and I still don't know what the fuck you meant by that.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

You point, is wrong.

Nuh uh.

Yuh huh.

[Zaelath]

...but your "fact" is no more than a "statistic". Feel free ask an adult the difference.

I'm an adult and I still don't know what the fuck you meant by that.

Statistics are raw data, they require holistic thinking to understand, which is why they make it so easy to misrepresent opinion as hard facts, to children and other underdeveloped minds.

In this example:

Statistic: % black people convicted of homicide > % of white people convicted of homicide

Pseudo Fact: black people commit more homicides than white people.

Corollary: In Kilmoll world every murderer is caught and convicted and no one is wrongly convicted. Oh, and unlawful killing probably isn't murder.

While the statistic *suggests* Kilmoll's conclusion, it's merely that, a conclusion based on a statistic and not a hard fact. And more than that, he's making the contention that blacks have a predeliction for homicide based on that.

Hard facts would be something like:
- negros have lower average birth weight than whites.
- negros are paid less than white people on average.
- negros die younger than white people.

Normally the opinion follows closely on a list of facts like that, as to cause of all these problems.. but they are facts.

[kyoukan]

You point, is wrong.

Nuh uh.

Yuh huh.

Finally an argument Midnyte can compete in.

[Metanis]

...but your "fact" is no more than a "statistic". Feel free ask an adult the difference.

I'm an adult and I still don't know what the fuck you meant by that.

Statistics are raw data, they require holistic thinking to understand, which is why they make it so easy to misrepresent opinion as hard facts, to children and other underdeveloped minds.

In this example:

Statistic: % black people convicted of homicide > % of white people convicted of homicide

Pseudo Fact: black people commit more homicides than white people.

Corollary: In Kilmoll world every murderer is caught and convicted and no one is wrongly convicted. Oh, and unlawful killing probably isn't murder.

While the statistic *suggests* Kilmoll's conclusion, it's merely that, a conclusion based on a statistic and not a hard fact. And more than that, he's making the contention that blacks have a predeliction for homicide based on that.

Hard facts would be something like:
- negros have lower average birth weight than whites.
- negros are paid less than white people on average.
- negros die younger than white people.

Normally the opinion follows closely on a list of facts like that, as to cause of all these problems.. but they are facts.

I bet even YOU don't know what the fuck you just said!

[Zaelath]

I bet even YOU don't know what the fuck you just said!

I bet YOU don't even know what the fuck you had for breakfast.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

Lets go ahead and pick this apart, since you are a complete and utter moron.

Statistic: % black people convicted of homicide > % of white people convicted of homicide

Pseudo Fact: black people commit more homicides than white people.

Lets lose sight of the fact that you are making shit up. Let me QFT

It is also fact that blacks commit homicides at a much higher rate than whites. Is there something wired in them that makes them more violent?

Even with your limited grasp of English, I would think you would know the difference between volume and ratios.

And more than that, he's making the contention that blacks have a predeliction for homicide based on that.

I am contending no such thing. I posed that in contention with Sylvus making the statement that servicemen could have a predisposition towards being raping murderers. Unlike you, he understood the argument.

Hard facts would be something like:
- negros have lower average birth weight than whites.
- negros are paid less than white people on average.
- negros die younger than white people.

Maybe only REPORTED birth weights are counted. Maybe they should count crack dealers into the average pay statistics. I guess your FACTS on anything can be challenged under your argument.

[Zaelath]

Lets lose sight of the fact that you are making shit up. Let me QFT

It is also fact that blacks commit homicides at a much higher rate than whites. Is there something wired in them that makes them more violent?

Even with your limited grasp of English, I would think you would know the difference between volume and ratios.

You're picking apart semantics when you take a statistic and present it as something completely different? Yes, volume and ratio are different, but not *nearly* so different as "commit" and "be convicted of".

Plus you don't need to "QFT" me you fucking child, I'm quite happy to admit mistakes, especially when they're petty and inconsequential.

Maybe only REPORTED birth weights are counted. Maybe they should count crack dealers into the average pay statistics. I guess your FACTS on anything can be challenged under your argument.

The statistical effect of under-reporting of a few black children is unlikely to be significant, and given the circumstances they would occur, more likely to slightly lower the average rather than raise it.

Crack dealers aren't paid, and there's not enough of them combined to offset one Donald Trump if he was included in the figures either.

So yes, I fucked up with "more" versus "higher rate", happy? Perhaps you should grow a pair and admit your faux pas?